Just curious, and for the sake of discusion.........lol...I'm not looking for a matchrace.
The oem F code supercharged Fords had an advertised 300 HP from the factory. My 4.6 DOHC has give or take about the same HP. I never built mine for racing, (gearing etc), and never having been into the racing thing, I am just wondering if I am actually driving something that would be comparable to a "as from the factory" f code? LOL, I'd almost like to think not, but I keep thinking about things like my weight advantage, etc. I do not know how they compare torque wise.
I don't even have a clue as to what an OEM F code would do in the 1/4. When I ever get a speedometer again, I'll find out approx what mine will do.
Keep in mind that prior to 1972, engine HP was rated by the "gross" method, with no exhaust restriction, belt driven power accessaries, etc, starting in 72, the "net" HP ratings came into effect, the numbers were considerably reduced. Add the fact that it was also around this same time that more stringent emission regulations were coming into effect, played a role in some very low HP ratings. Example, both the 289 4 barrel engines from 1966 and the EFI 5.0L engine from a 87-93 Mustang were rated at 225HP, but in real life, the 5.0 is much stronger. As much as I love the "old tech" engines, and I would be pulling for the blown 312, comparing stock vs stock, I can`t imagine that 300 HP rated Cobra engine would having any problem running away from a 300 HP rated 312. Sure, like any engine, a well tweaked 312 can run much stronger than how the car left the factory, but then, so could the Mod motor. Factor in the 3 speed manual, or FordOMatic the 57s had, thats a further handicap. That said, I am still somewhat a "dinasaur", my 59 2 door sedan is getting a nearly 50 year old 428 Cobra Jet and 4 speed Toploader, because I still love the old stuff, and if some guy in his LS swapped 57 Chevy, Coyote swapped 57 Ford, or Buick Grand National leaves me in the dust, so be it.
in 1957 cars were rated in SAE gross horsepower. In the early 70's engines began to be rated in SAE net HP. The difference is gross is for a bare engine (no water pump, belt driven accessories, with open exhaust). Net Hp figures are inclusive of all the accessories and exhaust. F code engines were rumored to be underated with actual net HP closer to 340. The Hemmings article for the F code 4 dr Fairlane had the 1/4 mile time listed as 14.1. That is pretty quick!!!
if you want to compare the new engines to the old ones.take the new h/p and add 10 to 25% to the net h/p rating.these are approximate numbers dependant on the gross [old] h/p numbers being overrated/underrated.if you take the mark motor,and say it has 300 net h/p that would work out to be between 330-375 h/p rated the[old] gross way.because of the size of the mark engine[281]it does not have as much low end torque as some of the other engines.so the 312 may lead the race at first but the mark would probably win the race at the top end
I don't know if this has anything to do with the original question, but I have a 57 Fairlane 500 with a 460/C6, To me it is scary fast. Never can get it to hook up from a stop so I have to get it going then jump on it and it just about throws me into the back seat. But my friends Genesis coupe with a 2.0 turbo, 8 spd auto. rated at 274HP would leave my Fairlane in the dust. I would still rather have the feel of the 460 than the fast of the new tech. I am sure that 4.6 would probably kick ass on the F Code.
I drove an "F" T-bird on the street almost daily for about 15 years. Like any supercharged engine, they really show power when you get up in the middle of the second gear range. Also had a 55 T-bird with a 427. I would only need first and second gears to beat the 57 "F" in a quarter mile race. my 57 had a Wes Clark engine, lightly cammed with closed chamber heads (Jim Weatherly said it's the only set he has ever seen). Everything else was correct production parts on the engine. Also, the factory cam was mild enough to be comfortable for the average person to drive. Jim has the production cam in stock.
Lots of interesting input...thanks guys.
Gotta find a place to check mine out after I get another speedometer, lol. Now my curiosity is peaking.
I've only gotten on mine hard from a dead stop once. A few weeks ago, I came up on what looked to be a long enough stretch on the road, no traffic either direction. I stopped, set the gps speedo to the "1/4 mile start" setting, took my foot off the brake and nailed it. Hardly any chirping of the tires even...surprisingly just got up and went. Unfortunatly my eyeballing enough road ahead was off....At about 80, I had to shut it down as a turn was coming up too quick. The digital readout on the speedometer is too small to read what it recorded while driving, so I looked later. 18.72 seconds, and 74mph.lol just the speed I was going when I finally crossed the 1/4 mile.
Since you live in Texas, are there no actual NHRA or AHRA dragstrips within reasonable driving distance from Amarillo? I`ve been drag racing since 1974, and even after 40 + years, watching the Christams Tree bulbs come down, dumping the clutch and rowing thru the gears, and picking up the ET slip after a run, is still a blast! No better way to sort out a car, and get some real world data.
Rich we are not going to argue about old vs new here, but one thing for sure. when you stroll bye the exhaust pipes rumble or looking under the hood, the Y block is up front ! :003:
Quote from: 59meteor on 2017-01-20 00:50
Since you live in Texas, are there no actual NHRA or AHRA dragstrips within reasonable driving distance from Amarillo? I`ve been drag racing since 1974, and even after 40 + years, watching the Christams Tree bulbs come down, dumping the clutch and rowing thru the gears, and picking up the ET slip after a run, is still a blast! No better way to sort out a car, and get some real world data.
I haven't run a quarter since the mid 60's, our spot out on the highway. No way this 70 year old is gonna run an actual dragstrip with people watching, lol.......how can I ever lie about the results if I have to post a copy of the slip??!!
DJ.........we don't even have to agree to disagree on this one. Your totally correct.
Rich,
RUN YOUR CAR !
Even if you just floor it and drive it through the quarter the mph can
be translated into aprox ET and Hp.
And it's much safer than the highway and gps.
Ron.
2X what he said!
You can bench race all you want but the track is the only way to prove it. I'm in a conversation with a friend who has a stock '66 350 Horse Corvette with a 3.89 gear. My '57 Bird has a well modified 312/322 with Mummert heads, custom Isky cam, Sharp roller rockers, factory E carbs, Toploader 4 speed and 3.89 traction loc. The engine should be around the 400 horse range. The only way to see who is quicker is to run them off in the 1/4 mile.
My F-Code motor in my Sedan is the fastest and most thrilling car I own.
It leaves my CJ cars in an instant. It is 100% true street/touring car with stock appearing(except headers) and weighs 3940 lbs. With the blower it feels like a much lighter car. It's main performance limitation is the street tires(295's) as it spins the tires so violently in first and second, it like driving on water when it hits 3000 rpm. With ET Street 28x10.50's it has run 1.8 flat 60 foot times. I've driven it with out the blower a few times, but the boost changes it's personality. Some of the members here have ridden in it and can attest to the thrill.
Now my car is not your typical VR57 Supercharged car. I've been refining and driving is for 20 years now.
With the help of many of the experienced VR57 group (Feistritzer,Ponder,Mummert,Eaton,Rice,Payne,Christianson,& Stuck), I as was able to have mine dialed in pretty quickly. Currently, it's got a Ted Eaton/Mummert combo 352 stroker with all good internal parts for not only performance but durability. Mine is on the next level, but I know when the motor a mild with mostly stock 312 with only at 230 dur cam and headers, it still made so much power over a naturally aspirated.
Tuning is the key. Most F-cars are now show cars now and not dialed in at all. With some tuning, I'm sure the factory 340 HP rating is very accurate. It takes some time and experience to make the fuel system work properly. Most of the factory VR57 blowers are not making true boost anymore until they are converted to more reliable modern internals.
Frank Rice's car fits in the Factory Stock Appearing Class and runs similar times to the 60's/70's muscle cars and many newer performance cars.
If someone is interested in making a F-Code or Blown Y-Block truly run good, I would be glad to share information and sources of parts. We need to represent(almost unknown) and tell the story about this unique supercharged combination that Ford offered on our cars in 1957, that outperforms anything the competition had in '57.
link to an example of 'speed costs'...how fast do you want to spend?
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/2017-engine-masters-class-rules-announced/?wc_mid=4035:5276&wc_rid=4035:378097&_wcsid=4D94DDDD4E32C074D92BB0C1104FA7DB3DBB7A8A1422A212
Once again, Hot Rod magazine made a rule to hamstring the Ford entries. No aluminum heads? Thats ok, Mummert and Eaton can still work magic with the old iron stuff. It pisses me off when a Ford dominates, the rules change so that Ford can not dominate any more. I hope they slaughter everyone even worse this year with iron heads.
After Sundays Nascar race they will probably change the rules again to kill the Fords :005:
[quote author - Torque and who builds it first , is the whole race.
the Road kill guys on TV . did a comparison dyno , between the 383 chevrolet engine and the 383 1970 Chrysler engine
chrysler has the purple street cam dialed in strait up
the 383 chev has its performance two hump heads, and the cam was as close to mopar as they could find
The lift duration was the same , and installed at simular center .
Stock rockers for both and lifters
Both used the same holley carb to dyno with ,. after a mild runs to set timming , the results were -
the 383 chrysler built Torque starting at 1400 rpm , the Gm engine needed to spool up to 3100 to get the same torque levels , Output HP was close with in 5 hp.
Seems Some phone calls were made . and some parts houses Or others Did not like what they saw. (it is what it is ) . the video was pulled from the tube. lol
I however have printed Up almost 500 video thumb nails that the tube axed for one reason or another, I have this one ,