another rack and pinion question.

[RICH MUISE]

I need someone with the rack and pinion set up from STFabrications, or other using the Cavalier rack, to confirm the fluid ports for me. I can't see that area well enough on mine to see for sure. I believe the larger port is the one closer to the frame and is the supply (in) line, and the smaller one is closer to the engine and should be the return line.
Anyway, if someone could look and see which of those two ports you are using for the return line, I'd appreciate it.
I'm trying to determine why my PS fluid seems to be overheating. I lost my ST Fabrications install instructions, I was originally told the larger 18mm port was the supply line and hooked them up accordingly. I'm going to pick up a digital thermometer today,as Bill sugested, to get a reading so I'll know for sure.

[RICH MUISE]

I went to a friends and checked out his Mustang that has the oem hydroboost in it. All of my lines I believe are correct IF the info that I got here as what is what on the Cavalier rack was correct. Last year someone posted that the larger 18 mm port on the rack was the pressure side. What I just found out a few moments ago, is that would be backwards from what is on a Mustang rack. I know that what is done on the Mustang rack isn't necessarily indicative of the Cavalier rack, but right now everything is pointing in the direction of that being the culprit.
A Hamb member I sent an email to because I knew he just installed a Mustang hydroboost in his '54 last week sent me a reply stating his was working perfectly, and there were no hot components. He also sent me the diagram of the OEM Mustang hookup. Note the large port on the rack is the return line.

[RICH MUISE]

I finally did the smart thing and found john Starks' ( ST Fabrications) phone number. Going from memory he also said the larger port was the supply/pressure side, but he is going to confirm that tonight when he gets home and call me.
I'm avoiding restarting the engine until I can confirm my lines, so I won't be able to use my new infrared thermometer yet! I don't want to damage the r&p seal if I haven't already.

[LAUDY57]

Rich, if it's any help, on the 2 racks I have the uppermost port is the return. On the rack that just came out of another car- that is the larger diameter line, on my 57 there is a combination of hard and flex lines on the supply but the return line is solid and goes to the upper port.

[lalessi1]

I really do not have any experience with these steering set ups but in most pumped systems higher pressure supply lines are smaller than lower pressure returns as a general rule of thumb. If this is not the case I will have to embark on  another quest to understand....

[RICH MUISE]

Lorne...do you know what make/yr the racks  are that you have are? What you are telling me would indicate I have them hooked up wrong.
Lynn...that makes perfect sense...and that would also tell me I have them hooked up wrong.

I never got a call back from ST Fabrications last night.

This is the info from an older thread that I used to hook them up...

"From my instructions: The pressure and return fittings that go to the rack are 18mm and 16mm with o-ringd to -6 male. Go to your local hydraulics shop and have them match the fittings. Use -6 fittings on the hoses.If you use early Ford/Eaton power steering pump use a -6 fitting to 5/8 x18 thread count reverse flare on the pressure side of the pump. You will not have to use a pressure drop valve to regulate the line pressure as the power racks just fine with these pumps.Late model Ford pumps also work without using pressure regulator.

NOTE: The 18mm (larger fitting) to -6 A.N. is the pressure side.
Make sure you attach the hoses correctly or the seal in the rack head may rupture.

This is out of the instructions I got with my rack and pinion."

I'm thinking now the above info I underlined is incorrect. A few things I'm going to explore today...I'm going to send a pm to Rob...I know he's got the same setup as mine on his wagon. I'm wondering if there is a Cavalier around in any of the wrecking yards I could go look at. I've spent a few hours on the internet trying to clarify it with no luck. I may also call Pure Choice motorsports where I bought all my fittings...there the plumbing experts for automotive systems.

[RICH MUISE]

Lynn...thinking about the high pressure side being the smaller lines as you correctly mentioned. The unknown for me since I'm also not familiar with these systems, is what is happening inside the rack. I'm thinking that it's posible the size is being necked down to a smaller size internally. So, with that in mind, I can't know for sure that the bigger outside fitting isn't the pressure side.I will find out today...I hope.

[RICH MUISE]

OK...got some definative answers. I called pure choice motorsports. Those guys are really on top of everything!! The Cavalier rack is in fact backwards from the Ford racks regarding the fitting sizes. So the original information I got from Harry about the larger 18 mm port being the pressure side is correct. All my lines are correct. My problem probably is air blockage in the lines. Now that I know my lines are installed correctly, I can proceed with the bleeding proceedure without fear of damaging the rack. Yeah!!

[LAUDY57]

I just read your last post but I'll put these here anyway. First shows type, 2nd is one that was put in a Mustang, and return line (larger) is upper of the 2 connections. Don't know year, the same rack is in my 57.

[RICH MUISE]

Thanks for posting that, but apparently once again I spent alot of time resolving a problem I didn't have. This morning I adjusted my e-brake so I could put the car in gear while the back of the car was jacked up. I knew with the car jacked up, the wheel would/should start spinning even at idle speed and I wanted to be able to stop the rotating before I put it back in park. The good news is my e-brake still works. The cable was broken when I got the car about 15 years ago, so it's been at least that long since it's been used. Some more good news is apparently I have the shift cable modified ok, because the gears are just as the gear indicator indicates. Anyway, after I had the engine running for a bit to check that out...about 2 minutes...I did a thermal reading on the hydoboost and it was at 147*.
A while later I jacked up the front end and started to turn the steering lock to lock to bleed the system (self bleeding). The engine ran for about 5 minutes while I did that, and I took another reading of the hydroboost....down to 117*. After my brain clears from breathing all that exhaust, I'll go do it again, but that appears to be the cause of the overheating I had. The lock to lock thing has to be done about 25 times to bleed the sysem, I got about 1/2 done.
I did notice my steering seems to be "lumpy" so I may have to play with the steering ujoints a bit. Also my e-brake is catching on something at the start of the pull, so something else to check out....maybe it was just the old mechanism back at the wheels, but it felt more like it was in the handle area.

[Ford Blue blood]

Rich do you have pics of the steering u-joints as installed?  Reason I ask is myself and RAWms (passed on) discussed at length his placement of the support bearing for the intermediate shaft on his three u-joint linkage.  His felt good up but when the wheels were on the ground it felt "lumpy".  Not sure if he got around to fixing that before he passed....just a thought to look at.

[LAUDY57]

I posted before that I got rid of the lumpy by making a shaft with the u-joints 90 deg out and I don't have an idler shaft like yours and others. Got that hint from an old truck mech.

[RICH MUISE]

Lorne...I was thinking about the phasing of the ujoint...I'll have to have a look-see to see if I can change the phasing by removing the u-joint at the firewall and reinstalling it flipped end to end. If I can't, not sure what if anything can be done with the phasing being a double d shaft.
Lorne:..any more trips planned for Phoenix? Next month for me.
Bill, I've got pics! BTW, the temperature of the hydroboost dropped another 35 degrees after the second bleeding. It's down to 84* with the engine running almost 5 minutes...that's down from 147* with the engine running 2 minutes! LOL..I still haven't taken the infrared thermometer out of the package...it's got "try me" packaging. Would it be unethical for me to bring it back now that I've used the "try me?"

[LAUDY57]

I machined the D's 90 deg to each other on each end of a shaft. Might go to Phoenix next spring (16) taking the family to see baseball training. Our friends sold their Chandler house yesterday so no more cheap trips.
Don't get rid of that thermometer, I've found a lot of uses for mine, even just checking opening of thermostats to temp gauge reading, house wiring receptacles under load, etc.

[Ford Blue blood]

Rich it all looks good.  Have someone rotate the steering wheel while you look real close, just verify nothing is rubbing or binding.  Any bind will be visible with a slight movement in shaft outside of the rotational movement.

Keep the heat gun....one of the best trouble shooting tools you'll learn to use!