57fordsforever.com

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Check out the newsletters posted at our main club site:  http://57fordsforever.com

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: new drivetrain to oem E or F code comparison  (Read 654 times)

RICH MUISE

  • `57 Addict
  • ****
  • Karma: +73/-15
  • Offline Offline
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Location: Amarillo,Tx
  • Posts: 7211
new drivetrain to oem E or F code comparison
« on: January 17, 2017, 10:38:09 AM »

Just curious, and for the sake of discusion.........lol...I'm not looking for a matchrace.
The oem F code supercharged Fords had an advertised 300 HP from the factory. My 4.6 DOHC has give or take about the same HP. I never built mine for racing, (gearing etc), and never having been into the racing thing, I am just wondering if I am actually driving something that would be comparable to a "as from the factory" f code? LOL, I'd almost like to think not, but I keep thinking about things like my weight advantage, etc. I do not know how they compare torque wise.
I don't even have a clue as to what an OEM F code would do in the 1/4. When I ever get a speedometer again, I'll find out approx what mine will do.
Logged
I can do this, I can do this, I, well, maybe

59meteor

  • `57 Buff
  • *
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Join Date: Aug 2013
  • Location:
  • Posts: 91
Re: new drivetrain to oem E or F code comparison
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2017, 12:27:50 PM »

Keep in mind that prior to 1972, engine HP was rated by the "gross" method, with no exhaust restriction, belt driven power accessaries, etc, starting in 72, the "net" HP ratings came into effect, the numbers were considerably reduced. Add the fact that it was also around this same time that more stringent emission regulations were coming into effect, played a role in some very low HP ratings. Example, both the 289 4 barrel engines from 1966 and the EFI 5.0L engine from a 87-93 Mustang were rated at 225HP, but in real life, the 5.0 is much stronger. As much as I love the "old tech" engines, and I would be pulling for the blown 312, comparing stock vs stock, I can`t imagine that 300 HP rated Cobra engine would having any problem running away from a 300 HP rated 312. Sure, like any engine, a well tweaked 312 can run much stronger than how the car left the factory, but then, so could the Mod motor. Factor in the 3 speed manual, or FordOMatic the 57s had, thats a further handicap. That said, I am still somewhat a "dinasaur", my 59 2 door sedan is getting a nearly 50 year old 428 Cobra Jet and 4 speed Toploader, because I still love the old stuff, and if some guy in his LS swapped 57 Chevy, Coyote swapped 57 Ford, or Buick Grand National leaves me in the dust, so be it.
Logged

lalessi1

  • `57 Addict
  • ****
  • Karma: +27/-3
  • Offline Offline
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Location: Baton Rouge, LA
  • Posts: 1231
Re: new drivetrain to oem E or F code comparison
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2017, 12:33:19 PM »

in 1957 cars were rated in SAE gross horsepower. In the early 70's engines began to be rated in SAE net HP. The difference is gross is for a bare engine (no water pump, belt driven accessories, with open exhaust). Net Hp figures are inclusive of all the accessories and exhaust. F code engines were rumored to be underated with actual net HP closer to 340. The Hemmings article for the F code 4 dr Fairlane had the 1/4 mile time listed as 14.1. That is pretty quick!!!
Logged
Lynn

canadian_ranchero

  • `57 Addict
  • ****
  • Karma: +15/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Location:
  • Posts: 884
Re: new drivetrain to oem E or F code comparison
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2017, 05:46:00 PM »

if you want to compare the new engines to the old ones.take the new h/p and add 10 to 25% to the net h/p rating.these are approximate numbers dependant on the gross [old] h/p numbers being overrated/underrated.if you take the mark motor,and say it has 300 net h/p that would work out to be between 330-375 h/p rated the[old] gross way.because of the size of the mark engine[281]it does not have as much low end torque as some of the other engines.so the 312 may lead the race at first but the mark would probably win the race at the top end   
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 09:31:20 PM by canadian_ranchero »
Logged

Contibob

  • `57 Enthusiast
  • **
  • Karma: +5/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Join Date: Dec 2011
  • Location:
  • Posts: 123
Re: new drivetrain to oem E or F code comparison
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2017, 09:54:32 PM »

I don't know if this has anything to do with the original question, but I have a 57 Fairlane 500 with a 460/C6, To me it is scary fast. Never can get it to hook up from a stop so I have to get it going then jump on it and it just about throws me into the back seat. But my friends Genesis coupe with a 2.0 turbo, 8 spd auto. rated at 274HP would leave my Fairlane in the dust. I would still rather have the feel of the 460 than the fast of the new tech. I am sure that 4.6 would probably kick ass on the F Code.
Logged

Ray

  • `57 Buff
  • *
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Join Date: Jan 2015
  • Location: Huntington Beach, CA
  • Posts: 79
Re: new drivetrain to oem E or F code comparison
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2017, 12:05:14 PM »

I drove an "F" T-bird on the street almost daily for about 15 years. Like any supercharged engine, they really show power when you get up in the middle of the second gear range. Also had a 55 T-bird with a 427. I would only need first and second gears to beat the 57 "F" in a quarter mile race. my 57 had a Wes Clark engine, lightly cammed with closed chamber heads (Jim Weatherly said it's the only set he has ever seen). Everything else was correct production parts on the engine. Also, the factory cam was mild enough to be comfortable for the average person to drive. Jim has the production cam in stock.
Logged
Willow Green 57 convert
Gunmetal over Coral Sand 57 "E" convert

RICH MUISE

  • `57 Addict
  • ****
  • Karma: +73/-15
  • Offline Offline
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Location: Amarillo,Tx
  • Posts: 7211
Re: new drivetrain to oem E or F code comparison
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2017, 08:55:19 PM »

Lots of interesting input...thanks guys.
Gotta find a place to check mine out after I get another speedometer, lol. Now my curiosity is peaking.
I've only gotten on mine hard from a dead stop once. A few weeks ago, I came up on what looked to be a long enough stretch on the road, no traffic either direction. I stopped, set the gps speedo to the "1/4 mile start" setting, took my foot off the brake and nailed it. Hardly any chirping of the tires even...surprisingly just got up and went. Unfortunatly my eyeballing enough road ahead was off....At about 80, I had to shut it down as a turn was coming up too quick. The digital readout on the speedometer is too small to read what it recorded while driving, so I looked later. 18.72 seconds, and 74mph.lol just the speed I was going when I finally crossed the 1/4 mile.
Logged
I can do this, I can do this, I, well, maybe

59meteor

  • `57 Buff
  • *
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Join Date: Aug 2013
  • Location:
  • Posts: 91
Re: new drivetrain to oem E or F code comparison
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2017, 11:50:22 PM »

Since you live in Texas, are there no actual NHRA or AHRA dragstrips within reasonable driving distance from Amarillo? I`ve been drag racing since 1974, and even after 40 + years, watching the Christams Tree bulbs come down, dumping the clutch and rowing thru the gears, and picking up the ET slip after a run, is still a blast! No better way to sort out a car, and get some real world data.
Logged

djfordmanjack

  • `57 Addict
  • ****
  • Karma: +25/-1
  • Offline Offline
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Location: Graz, Austria, Europe
  • Posts: 811
Re: new drivetrain to oem E or F code comparison
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2017, 02:57:53 AM »

Rich we are not going to argue about old vs new here, but one thing for sure. when you stroll bye the exhaust pipes rumble or looking under the hood, the Y block is up front ! :003:
Logged

RICH MUISE

  • `57 Addict
  • ****
  • Karma: +73/-15
  • Offline Offline
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Location: Amarillo,Tx
  • Posts: 7211
Re: new drivetrain to oem E or F code comparison
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2017, 07:57:45 AM »

Since you live in Texas, are there no actual NHRA or AHRA dragstrips within reasonable driving distance from Amarillo? I`ve been drag racing since 1974, and even after 40 + years, watching the Christams Tree bulbs come down, dumping the clutch and rowing thru the gears, and picking up the ET slip after a run, is still a blast! No better way to sort out a car, and get some real world data.
I haven't run a quarter since the mid 60's, our spot out on the highway. No way this 70 year old is gonna run an actual dragstrip with people watching, lol.......how can I ever lie about the results if I have to post a copy of the slip??!!
DJ.........we don't even have to agree to disagree on this one. Your totally correct.
Logged
I can do this, I can do this, I, well, maybe

SkylinerRon

  • `57 Addict
  • ****
  • Karma: +11/-4
  • Offline Offline
  • Join Date: May 2012
  • Location: Maryland
  • Posts: 552
Re: new drivetrain to oem E or F code comparison
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2017, 12:43:27 AM »

Rich,
RUN YOUR CAR !
 Even if you just floor it and drive it through the quarter the mph can
be translated into aprox ET and Hp.
And it's much safer than the highway and gps.

Ron.
Logged

Ford Blue blood

  • `57 Addict
  • ****
  • Karma: +36/-2
  • Offline Offline
  • Join Date: Dec 2006
  • Location: Birmingham, AL
  • Posts: 2748
Re: new drivetrain to oem E or F code comparison
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2017, 06:31:22 AM »

2X what he said!
Logged
Certfied Ford nut, Bill
58 Edsel Pacer
57 Retractable (for sale)
57 Ranchero

slumlord44

  • `57 Admirer
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Join Date: Jan 2017
  • Location:
  • Posts: 15
Re: new drivetrain to oem E or F code comparison
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2017, 10:57:26 PM »

You can bench race all you want but the track is the only way to prove it. I'm in a conversation with a friend who has a stock '66 350 Horse Corvette with a 3.89 gear. My '57 Bird has a well modified 312/322 with Mummert heads, custom Isky cam, Sharp roller rockers, factory E carbs, Toploader 4 speed and 3.89 traction loc. The engine should be around the 400 horse range. The only way to see who is quicker is to run them off in the 1/4 mile.
Logged

suede57ford

  • `57 Fanatic
  • ***
  • Karma: +18/-0
  • Offline Offline
  • Join Date: May 2010
  • Location: Lubbock, TX
  • Posts: 376
  • Saving the World One '57 Ford at a Time
Re: new drivetrain to oem E or F code comparison
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2017, 11:08:36 AM »

My F-Code motor in my Sedan is the fastest and most thrilling car I own. 

It leaves my CJ cars in an instant.  It is 100% true street/touring car with stock appearing(except headers) and weighs 3940 lbs.  With the blower it feels like a much lighter car. It's main performance limitation is the street tires(295's) as it spins the tires so violently in first and second, it like driving on water when it hits 3000 rpm.  With ET Street 28x10.50's it has run 1.8 flat 60 foot times.  I've driven it with out the blower a few times, but the boost changes it's personality.  Some of the members here have ridden in it and can attest to the thrill.

Now my car is not your typical VR57 Supercharged car. I've been refining and driving is for 20 years now. 

With the help of many of the experienced VR57 group (Feistritzer,Ponder,Mummert,Eaton,Rice,Payne,Christianson,& Stuck), I as was able to have mine dialed in pretty quickly.   Currently, it's got a Ted Eaton/Mummert combo 352 stroker with all good internal parts for not only performance but durability.  Mine is on the next level, but I know when the motor a mild with mostly stock 312 with only at 230 dur cam and headers, it still made so much power over a naturally aspirated. 

Tuning is the key.  Most F-cars are now show cars now and not dialed in at all.  With some tuning, I'm sure the factory 340 HP rating is very accurate.  It takes some time and experience to make the fuel system work properly. Most of the factory VR57 blowers are not making true boost anymore until they are converted to more reliable modern internals.

Frank Rice's car fits in the Factory Stock Appearing Class and runs similar times to the 60's/70's muscle cars and many newer performance cars.

If someone is interested in making a F-Code or Blown Y-Block truly run good, I would be glad to share information and sources of parts.  We need to represent(almost unknown) and tell the story about this unique supercharged combination that Ford offered on our cars in 1957, that outperforms anything the competition had in '57.
Logged
57 2dr Sedan, Black,VR57 Supercharged Y-block
57 T-bird, 460 C6
57 Ranchwagon, 5.0 AOD
57 Ranchero, VR57 Supercharged
57 Courier Delivery, 460 C6
57 2dr Sedan, Red/White
69 Mach1 428 R-Code
69 Talladega 428
69 Bronco 5.0
70 Torino Cobra SCJ 4spd,4:30 Drag Pak
34 Ford P.U. 427 Ford, 2-4s
69 Boss 429

gasman826

  • `57 Addict
  • ****
  • Karma: +35/-5
  • Offline Offline
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Location: Adrian Michigan
  • Posts: 1615
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up