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Author Topic: Had to start my own Power Booster Thread ... :-)  (Read 805 times)

Kai

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Had to start my own Power Booster Thread ... :-)
« on: February 14, 2017, 12:12:44 PM »

I looked thru all previous postings and gained a lot of info there. But I still do not know what I should or should not do.

As some may have seen on another post my car is a (almost) bone stock 57 Country Sedan with the original 312. The only known mod is that someone (not the last owner) swapped the column shifted 3-speed with a floor shifted 5-speed. The previous owner called it a T800 transmission from a Mustang. I cannot find any info on that. I know that the first 5-speed in a Mustang was the T5. Then there is the T45, the TR-3650 and finally the TR-3550. I hope to be able to identify what I have when I finally get to my car in a few weeks.

OK. Back to the subject. The previous owner claimed that the car has been fitted with a new simplex master cylinder plus all new brake parts in the stock drums. The cap on the master cylinder is not the same as on the photo that Guenter posted. Kind of a sign that something was changed even so both are similar rusty. I will certainly check all drums, hoses and lines when I get to the car, but since I only have a weekend to work on the car I need to plan ahead and order parts.

My buddy Jim drove the car from the trailer to his garage and finds the brakes to be "questionable". He was not able to go further as all that happened in nice cold Illinois with snow fall at that time.

The options are:

1. Leave the simplex system and the drums. Just make sure all works. Order replacement parts (master cylinder, wheel cylinders, hoses and all the small bits and pieces inside the drums) from Rock Auto as they are all dirt cheap and won't break the bank.

2. Just swap the simplex with a Duplex Master Cylinder. But which one is the right one ?

3. Swap the simplex Master Cylinder with a 7" or 8" PowerBooster/Duplex Master Cylinder unit. Here the options I found so far are:

a. the 7" unit from MACs with P/N 49-364518-1 for $439.99

http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_mercury_late/1957-1972-ford-brake-booster-master-cylinder-combo-475197.html

b. the 8" unit from MACs with 49-364516-1 for 439.99 (same price as the 7")

http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_mercury_late/1952-1972-ford-brake-booster-master-cylinder-combo-475170.html

c. the 8" unit from Summit Racing P/N SUM-760199 for just $149.97

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/sum-760199/overview/

d. the 8" unit from MP Master Power Brakes P/N BM-15103-2 for $425

http://www.mpbrakes.com/1957-ford-fairlane-booster-master-combo-kit-bm15103-2

e. the 8" unit from Dearborn Classics P/N 90-79281-1 for $430.95

http://www.dearbornclassics.com/1957+ford+fairlane/power-brake-booster-and-master-cylinder-conversion-kit-fairlane-galaxie-ranchero-1957-1959.html

f. the ???" unit from Classic Disc Brakes P/N 9786PV4-PV2 for $349 (but they claim it is just for a disc/drum or disc/disc set up)

http://www.classicdiscbrakes.com/1957-67-Ford-Fairlane-Power-Brake-Booster-Master-Combo-9786PV4-PV2.htm

g. ... or buy one off eBay. There seem to be various sellers there like a place called Vintage Brake Solutions who sell you one for $179.95

4. Just go with a Duplex as described in above option 2. and add disc brakes up front. There are many different vendors. I like Wilwood.

5. Do the PowerBooster/Duplex Master plus discs up front.

Too many options. What would you do ? I only have one weekend to to the swap or have it done by some shop nearby Jim's house.

Again, I want brakes that will not let me down for 10,000miles. I do not fear to leave it all as it is as long as it brakes "kinda" acceptable.

I am puzzled !!!

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Kai
Hanau/Germany
54 F100, 347 SBF, 6-speed
57 Wagon, 312 YB, 5-speed
1965 Galaxie 500XL, 446 FE, 5-speed
1967 Mustang Convertible, 306 SBF, C4

gasman826

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Re: Had to start my own Power Booster Thread ... :-)
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2017, 05:40:24 PM »

Welcome to the world of indecision.  Your list is no different from the one we all have used.  Brake quality is not negotiable.  Since you have little or no history, assume everything is junk.  You can not trust unknown previous owners.  Buyers are liars and sellers are worse.  The cheapest and fastest would be to change all rubber components and shoes in a OEM (stock) configuration(don't forget the parking brake).  Now your wagon will stop as designed.  Unfortunately, in 1957 the US Interstate system was still under construction and 70 mph speeds were rare.  With the wagon fully loaded, 75 mph, and your family aboard, you might want to upgrade your braking capabilities more compatible with the 21st century.  Power drum brakes will cost more and reduce braking effort but will do little to shorten hard stops.  Smaller disc brakes that will fit 15" wheels will stop your wagon nicely.  Big disc brakes will stop your wagon under the severest conditions (more toward racing).  These options have also went from cheapest to more expensive.  Its just like going fast...faster costs more. 
Unfortunately brakes are not something you can do a little now and upgrade a little later without discarding new parts to make the upgrade compatible.  If you upgrade to a dual master cylinder for your drum system and later install disc brakes, you will discard the dual master cylinder to a dual, disc/drum compatible master cylinder.  Then later, you upgrade to a disc/disc system and the disc/drum master cylinder will be discarded for a disc/disc compatible master cylinder.

If I had only a weekend to prep an unknown car for a road trip,  overhaul the OEM system and drive in the granny lane!
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RICH MUISE

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Re: Had to start my own Power Booster Thread ... :-)
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2017, 08:13:28 PM »

Good advise. A weekend isn't very much time to get things done when your life depends on what you're doing. Many many brake upgrades in recent years have been the source of headaches mainly involving boosters. If the new wheels on that wagon are 15's you can do a disc conversion without changing wheels (probably). The disc brake conversion kits from drop n stop are a bolt on and reasonably priced. Dave (the owner) is a super guy to work with and a Ford guy as well.
 I seem to remember you talking about front springs that were heated to lower?? If that's the case, the drop and stop kit won't work without a spring change as the kit will lower the car another 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 depending on what you want.
I'd definetly avoid the Ebay sellers and stick with the mentioned, or ABS, etc. You want to make sure you have the right parts the first time around or your planned trip is gonna end up a no-go.
My advise...get the parts you need and have a local shop do the conversion before you get here. I just don't see a weekend as being enough time...these usually aren't cars you can run to the local parts store and pick something needed off the shelf.
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I can do this, I can do this, I, well, maybe

lalessi1

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Re: Had to start my own Power Booster Thread ... :-)
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2017, 08:34:48 PM »

I have disc brakes on the front, stock drums on the rear, braided steel hoses, and a dual master cylinder from a 67 Galaxie (from Rock Auto) that used the same combo, no booster. I have total confidence in what I have and the pedal is rock hard with modest pressure required. Boosters seem to be a source of issues so I would be inclined to skip the booster for now. Boosting drum brakes is a waste of resources, they fade just as fast. I have talked to Dave at Drop N Stop very knowledgeable about this subject.
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Lynn

SkylinerRon

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Re: Had to start my own Power Booster Thread ... :-)
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2017, 10:33:41 PM »

I completely overhauled my 57's drum brakes back in 1983.
Have driven it about 21k miles with no problems. Did use silicon brake fluid though.
Soft linings are now available to help braking.

Goodluck,

Ron.
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gasman826

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Re: Had to start my own Power Booster Thread ... :-)
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2017, 07:27:05 AM »

If you decide to go booster, everyone knows the '57 OEM booster was under the dash.  I often reference '57-64 Fords for upgrade fitment.  '60-64 Fords had boosters under the hood.  I ordered a 7" dual diaphragm booster via eBay for '55-72 Fords.  It would have bolted to the car but would NOT clear the Y-block exhaust manifold.  The '60-64 models have offset booster linkage to move the booster up and away from the manifold.  Make sure the application fits '57-64 Ford cars.
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Kai

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Re: Had to start my own Power Booster Thread ... :-)
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2017, 11:17:21 AM »

Thank you so much, All. This is a good discussion. I will now do the following:

1. Contact Dave at Drop'em and Stop'em and get his advise. If I do go discs I think I will use his parts. Also his master cylinder, but w/o the booster. I will ask for his advise on this.

2. Make me a shopping list with all original parts. I think I would order from Rock Auto and have them ship to Jim where the car is at.

Final decision time is in a week from now.

... even so I live in the "no speed limit" country I think I can do the granny lane thing while driving back country roads thru your beautiful country  :united states:.
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Kai
Hanau/Germany
54 F100, 347 SBF, 6-speed
57 Wagon, 312 YB, 5-speed
1965 Galaxie 500XL, 446 FE, 5-speed
1967 Mustang Convertible, 306 SBF, C4

Kai

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Re: Had to start my own Power Booster Thread ... :-)
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2017, 01:38:58 PM »

Here is what Dave from Drop'em and Stop'em wrote me on my inquiry:

Hi Kal,  I have a bolt on set of disc brakes for the front of the 57 ford, depending on your skill level, should only take  1/2 a day to a day to install.  The brakes, the master cylinder and the proportion valve.  The kit comes with all the parts for the brakes, the master cylinder has adapters, also 2 brake lines, a union, a Tee and a plug. Also comes with an inline proportion valve and basic instructions on how to plum the system.  The only thing you will need other than what I supply would be  H.D. Wheel bearing grease, brake fluid, and possibly a can of brake clean to help clean parts.
 
      Bolt on disc brake kit......$625
      Dual master cylinder.......$100
      Adj proportion valve.........$ 60
      Total..................................$785       plus shipping that will be determined at time of order,         either Illinois or Germany.
 
Thank you for the inquiry,   Dave

You did not specify bolt on or drop spindle kit
If you want a drop spindle kit either  1 1/2"drop or  2 1/2"drop   the kit runs $775
You can use the master and proportion valve from above.
 
Still can be installed in a day or less.

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Kai
Hanau/Germany
54 F100, 347 SBF, 6-speed
57 Wagon, 312 YB, 5-speed
1965 Galaxie 500XL, 446 FE, 5-speed
1967 Mustang Convertible, 306 SBF, C4

lalessi1

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Re: Had to start my own Power Booster Thread ... :-)
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2017, 06:56:16 PM »

For my money I would look at a Wilwood kit and the Galaxie master cylinder.  The proportioning valve is not required for the master cylinder. The Wilwood kit has 4 piston fixed aluminum calipers, VERY light. I spent under $650 for both.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WILWOOD-DISC-BRAKE-KIT-FRONT-58-68-FORD-MERCURY-EDSEL-11-ROTORS-BLACK-CALIPERS-/291280155037?fits=Year%3A1957%7CMake%3AFord&hash=item43d1a6719d:g:VnQAAOSwF1dUT8NS&vxp=mtr

http://www.cardone.com/Products/Product-Detail?productId=131394&p=rock&jsn=250

That said Dave as a single source may be the best choice under your circumstance.
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Lynn

djfordmanjack

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Re: Had to start my own Power Booster Thread ... :-)
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2017, 09:23:54 AM »

I have (US) Grenada discs and spindles on the Del Rio and they were working just fine without a power booster. Like Jay stated in the email og drum brakes in good condition work just fine as well. Have them in the Country Sedan and I am pleased with their stopping power ( careful driving).
What hasn't been said before, that in my opinion disc brakes combined with open Mag wheels will NOT look good on your car. It's a very original car with patina and IMHO that doesn't mix with shiny brake discs and new calipers popping out between the Mag wheel spokes. black drums look much better, especially if you had a mixed set of discs and drums. As mentioned before by others there is nothing wrong with factory drums for a mild cruiser. If you want to lower the front there is no need to go for the dropped spindles, since a pair of Aerostar lowering springs costs $60 and you will be able to keep all of your old suspension and brakes. again, this is just my opinion. a new 2xMC and 3 brake hoses might do the job for now. if you ordered the full kit with shoes and wheel cylinders and while working at it you find out they had been recently replaced, you can either keep the used ones or the new for spares.
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Kai

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Re: Had to start my own Power Booster Thread ... :-)
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2017, 11:48:49 AM »

Thanx Guys. I have loaded my Rock Auto shopping cart with all the drum brake parts as well as a new simplex master cylinder. I will be driving the 57 in a few weeks from now over a weekend and would exchange these parts if required. Will then also get a feel for the original brakes and make a decision if want to swap them out right away or drive the first 1,200 miles leg of our road trip as is and then swap them out. Will keep you posted.
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Kai
Hanau/Germany
54 F100, 347 SBF, 6-speed
57 Wagon, 312 YB, 5-speed
1965 Galaxie 500XL, 446 FE, 5-speed
1967 Mustang Convertible, 306 SBF, C4
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