A few years ago I built a 58 custom 300.with all the right stuff. it has been a great car and we have made several west coast Thu the Midwest loops with it. Trouble is, I always preferred the 57. At a car show last summer, I was parked next to a 57 and had several hours to look at and compare the rear clip of both cars and determined that there appears to be very little difference. I have purchased most of the top sheet metal for the rear fenders and a good deck lid. My plan is to start at the hinge and cut to the top of the fin, straight down the top of the fin, and into the tail light at the same angle. a minimal cut straight out the bottom of the tail light and blend into the existing tail pan. Anyone tried this? I know i am going to cut the original sheet metal out, very carefully, just is case.
i found it much easier to start with a 57 when i built my 57. lol
Shouldnt be hard, most of the stuff is bolt on parts, except for that ribbed roof. Good luck, post pictures...
and that ribbed roof will drive the purists nuts............
Zap- :unitedstates:
Zapato............there is a 57 builder out here who serches out 58's for their ribbed roof so he can use them on his 57's. I think I would
tackel my sheet metal project than his
My first dirt track sportsman was a former track champ's 58 sedan, I ran a 427 side oiler in it. The next season I re-skinned it to a 57, many times I had people come down in the pits after the races to tell me my car had a 58 roof. Two years later I built a 63 fairlane, it was kind of low slung, nice looking car, almost every night someone would come down out of the stands asking if it was a t-bird. If you look at the breakdown of your body panels, you could convert your car on the original seams. Mark
Well it has begun. Once I determined that the rear clip of a 4 door is the same as a two door, the needed sheet metal and deck lid were really easy to find. After much head scratching and measuring, we determined that only the last 9 inches of the rear fender top and half of the tail light mount need to be replaced. We have the sheet metal cut away and are starting the process of fitting the replacement panels. Hopefully, these will be done next week. It's going to take some thinking to blend the 58 tail pan into the 57 fender but it appears to be doable. This is way beyond anything I have ever tried before so I am working hard to keep my near terminal impatience from affecting the outcome of this project. Once the rear clip is done, I will be able to turn my attention to locating good, front clip, sheet metal.
Keep in mind that EMS makes a very nice new tail panel, saw one on ebay the other day for around 240. Would make that blending job a snap. Post some pics when you get them.
Yes. I have the paperwork for one on my desk, just in case.
Well the 58 to 57 tail pan just couldn't be made to look right so I ordered a EMS tail pan today. Should knaw next week if the quality is as advertised. Man, that is a heap of spot welds to drill!
There is a better too than a drillbit I think. Maybe Eastwood. I bought about 20 bits to get the floor
out of my Ranchero bed :005:
I am using Matco spot weld cutters. they cut like crazy and so far, refuse to fail or get dull. I have to be a little careful or it will go thru both panels in a hurry.
Those matco's are great.
The main reason for my 58 to 57 morf is to get a car that will accept some customizing. Looking at some of the pictures posted on the site, I see some of you have successfully Frenched both tail and headlights. Any advise or tips based on your experiences will be appreciated. Here's where I am, so far. I have tunneled the tail light buckets 1 inch and am deciding how to reattach the housings to the rear fenders. I really want the housings blended into the fenders but know that it usually resulted in the unacceptable cracked paint between the housing and fender. There is a street rod shop here that has been bonding pot metal fender caps, tail light housings etc. on for 5 or 6 years. They use 3M panel adhesive and back it up with Fiber Tech. The earliest job is about 6 years old. They have yet to have a failure and just finished A high end jet black Olds with all 4 fender caps bonded on. Anybody had any experience with this process. I should mention that we live in the desert so we can see Summer temps of 100 degrees and winter temps of 0 and lower so we get plenty of expansions and contractions.
Since I do not have my front fenders, I have no idea how to proceed with Frenching the headlights so any info on that job will be a big help....................thanks in advance
Hi; On frenching the headlights you can use a 1956 ford pickup trim ring.There is a site that goes into detail on it and I'll see if I can find it for you.After you get the headlight panel notched and the tabs bent in you can weld strips of metal attaching the tabs to strengthen them.Then you can weld or attach with screws brackets for your headlight buckets. Here is a link to a couple pictures to give you an idea.
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I bonded my taillight housings in and am not anticipating any problems. I think there is sufficient mating area for it to work, and additionally the mechanical fasteners are pretty strong. My car has been in near zero temps as well as 110 temps since the bonding and paint and shows no indication of the bond area cracking.
The front fender eyebrows are a different story however. The mechanical fastening is weak, and there is very little bonding surface. After paint, I stored the fenders outside in the sun just covered by a terp. One day I pulled the tarp when the temp was over a hundred and could see a line in one area of one fender where the eyebrow was expanding at a different rate than the fender. When it cooled off that night it moved back to where it was with no cracking...but I'm anticipating a problem down the road.
Rich
On my 51 ford I frenched my headlights, passenger side got done the old way. lots of tacking for what seemed forever. Passenger side got done with panel adhesive. Used panel adhesive made by Kent,, not sure where anyone can buy that brand sold mostly directly to body shops and OEMs. Every major auto manufacturer uses panel adhesives with a very high success rate. My boy used to sell it and we tested it by taking a piece of scrap plate and cutting a window into it, Then we bonded a piece of 16 guage steel to it. After sitting over night we clamped it in my vise and tried to bust it loose by hammering thru the window. Metal eventually ripped but didn't break loose. On a vertical surface (gravity comes into play) so you'll need to hold it in place till it sets. Duct tape comes in handy. There are several brands out there some better than others but they all work and I've never heard of any issues with any primers or plastic fillers. Any good paint supplier will sell some, get ready for sticker shock when you price the gun.
Thanks for the replies. I now feel a little more confident going ahead with my plans for the tail lights. Had to order a new tail pan which should be here by the end of next week. so ,hopefully, I should have the tail lights installed by the week of the 9Th.
Roger, the pictures kind of explain the process, but I obviously don't understand everything I know about the headlight housings. I've got to get my hands of one of them. the look on the red car is very close to the look I am after. I am going to goggle this process and see what comes up.
Thanks again to all you guys for the feed back
Do a search on this forum for frenched headlights and you should get plenty info.They covered them in a few posts and gave links to the hamb forum.
I got my 57 tail pan from EMS last week. It was 1/8 of an inch too wide to slip in between the rear fenders. Not really a big deal and we just massaged the lip on the pass side and got rid of the extra. other than that it fit very well as far as the fit to the trunk floor and the 57 tail light panels blended in perfectly. Overall, when compared to other after market panels I have used I would say that the quality is excellent. If I were to lodge one complaint it would be that the panel had three rust spots about the size of a quarter on the painted side surface. They have etched the steel enough that they will require some spot blasting and skim coat prior to painting. Not the end of the world, but they are getting a premium price for their products and I didn't expect to find rust. Having vented on that I will say if I need any other panels for this project, I will still order them from EMS
I believe ems puts a coating on their panels that most of the other manufacturers don't...keeps them from rusting away just sittin on a shelf somewhere....you're bound to have rub marks and some rust on any non painted panel. Sounds to me like ems did a remarkable job reproducing those panels..and who knows..on an actual '57 they may even fit better (or worse). Thanks for posting your findings...good info to know.
Be nice if they were "electro etched/plated" (don't know the actual name) like many of the GM parts are. I would pay the extra just to know the rust will stay away.
Finally got to start on the rear clip conversion. The job turned out to be easier than I had thought as I only had to replace about the last 11 inches of the rear fender tops and the tail pan. the purchase of an EMS tail pan really simplified that part of the project.
We are snowed in so getting the car to the media blaster is pretty much out of the question for now. I have located all of the front clip but need to wait for some better weather to go and remove it. I'm going to try and post a couple of pictures that will show the process.
Well I got one out of the three I tried to attach.
That looks great....Can't wait to see the rest of the photos.
Great Job! I looked at turning a '58 into a '57 years ago, as I could not find a '57 custom anywhere. I had fourdoor parts car ready to use for the conversion. Finally, I found a good running '57 tudor and then I found all the other ones in my area. Can't wait to see you finished work.
looking great! any more shots? added bonus you get the ribbed roof of the 58. and I'm sure there has to be many other minor improvements from the 57 model year.
Zap- :unitedstates:
Whoa..I might have just figured out how to add more than one picture to a post. I am going to take another run at it and see if it works.
Once the decision was made to install power windows I bought Dolphin front kits $115.00 with free freight on E-Bay. I was just going to eliminate the rear regulators until I remembered how often my dog goes with me and the need to open the back windows a bit for her. Checked on power rear regs. because power front and manual rears would never do. I discovered that NU-Relics wanted $412.00 for rear regulators. Don't get me wrong, there are very few things in life more important to me than that dog but Come on! $115 to get me fresh air and $412 for her? There had to be another way. I ended up buying a pair of 6" stroke liner actuators off E-Bay for $149.00 with free freight and after about five different failed design ideas We landed on one that appears to work. I cut the roller arm off the stock regulator, made an adapter to attach it to the actuator piston installed the roller in the stock location in the window channel and installed the actuator parallel to the rear edge of the front roller guide to a bracket mounted inside the rocker panel. I made a yoke mount for the bottom with a threaded stud that will allow final length adjustment when the windows go in for the last time. The system seems to work fine didn't mess with it too much since it all has to come back out for final welding. The other side is going to go much faster. Just posting this in case anyone is now or has been in the same situation maybe it will save some head scratching time.
57 Imposter,
For $412.00 you could have someone teach the dog to roll the window up and down. LOL Jim
I went the stationary route, but I'm still curious as to why the dolphin unit you got for the front wouldn't have worked for the back. I'm assuming they are generic units rather than model specific.
I think it would have been difficult to get the dolphin unit. which is quite large compared to a actuator. installed at the correct angle in the rear quarter panel. the rear windows pivot at the rear of the glass so whatever I used,I :burnout: thought ,should follow the front track angle to avoid binding. I know I would have had to cut the dolphin unit up to get it in and if they didn't work, would have ended up in the garbage. whereas if I failed with the actuators, I would still have them to use for something else.
Jim I think the little bugger may be smart enough to learn how to do it but it always comes back to to problem of trying to grab a knob with no thumbs. If I didn't know better, I would almost think they use that as a excuse to get someone else to do absolutely everything for them.
57 Imposter,
Now I'm a serious as a heart attack here. How did you get your dog to sit in the back seat. Mine has to sit on my lap with his head stuck out the window or she lays down beside my right leg looking up at me real pitiful letting me know she wants to be on my lap with her head stuck out the window. Jim PS There isn't an LOL at the end of this one.
for right now we run around in a Magnum Wagon.
she has the run of the whole back end with the rear seat down and never gets in the front. It will be interesting to see what she does when we get back in the sedan since she would always jump into the front seat anytime I would leave her in the car. she always saw me coming before I would get to the car and would be sitting in the back seat by the time I opened the door. I won't be surprised if she picks right up where she left off when that car comes back. I.m sure she thinks she is getting away with it and doesn't realize that I can see her white behind go over the seat back from two blocks away.
Quote from: 57 imposter on 2012-03-24 21:10
Once the decision was made to install power windows I bought Dolphin front kits $115.00 with free freight on E-Bay. I was just going to eliminate the rear regulators until I remembered how often my dog goes with me and the need to open the back windows a bit for her. Checked on power rear regs. because power front and manual rears would never do. I discovered that NU-Relics wanted $412.00 for rear regulators. Don't get me wrong, there are very few things in life more important to me than that dog but Come on! $115 to get me fresh air and $412 for her? There had to be another way. I ended up buying a pair of 6" stroke liner actuators off E-Bay for $149.00 with free freight and after about five different failed design ideas We landed on one that appears to work. I cut the roller arm off the stock regulator, made an adapter to attach it to the actuator piston installed the roller in the stock location in the window channel and installed the actuator parallel to the rear edge of the front roller guide to a bracket mounted inside the rocker panel. I made a yoke mount for the bottom with a threaded stud that will allow final length adjustment when the windows go in for the last time. The system seems to work fine didn't mess with it too much since it all has to come back out for final welding. The other side is going to go much faster. Just posting this in case anyone is now or has been in the same situation maybe it will save some head scratching time.
Pictures pictures, we need pics! ...and diagrams! Please. :003:
cool57.........Everything is out and in pieces but I think I can assemble it on the bench and probably get a better picture then when it was in the car. I will get that up as soon as I can, probably tomorrow.
Sorry this has taken so long but after coming back from two weeks in Arizona for spring training my camera came up missing. Anyway, the conversion was relatively easy.[on the fitfth try] the top piece is 1" .125 sq. tubing with the last 4 1/2' of the stock regulator attached. the bottom yoke is the same material with a 1/4X 4 elevator bolt attached. It assembles in the car as shown. the bottom bracket is made out of a piece of 2X4 sq. tubing cut at an angle to match where the actuator wants to land. mine is welded in just a few inches ahead of the rear fender well. Oh We also closed off the front of the roller track so the roller cant pop out when raising the widow. Hope I get the pictures if not I'll try again
Well I got one ill see if I can get the other
Your setup looks good..keep us posted.
"In Arizona for 2 weeks of spring training"...Did you make it to the new park at Walking Stick in Scottsdale? I went to the last Rockies game of the spring training Wednesday....it's right across from the Pavillion Shopping center where they have Saturday night cruises. Awesome ballpark..I enjoyed it more than going to Coors field..I'm leaving Phoenix tomorrow to head back to Texas.
No we didn't, our schedule really got messed up, this year. WE combine baseball with visiting friends that winter in Tuscon. they had to return to Omaha early so our schedule really got changed around to accommodate them so we didn't get near as many games as usual. However any time spent in
Arizona ,in March really beats the crap out of spending the same amount of time in Washington State, so we had a great time.
I've been watching/reading with interest. Quite a task in such a tight place. Sooo...how many times have you thought about getting a new dog?
I really know the answer. We run a boarding kennel (doggie day care). The stuff people do for their dogs...and we do it too!!! I think I saw some doggie treat shaped window cranks somewhere. I'll get back to you on that.
We had two but lost our male in Feb. to cancer. Why anyone would willingly sign up for that kind of grief is beyond me, but I know that sometime soon I will be standing in line waiting to start the process all over again. My female is bumping up against 12 years old and feels that she no longer has to put up with some,snot nosed, puppy jumping on her and chewing on her ears, and I tend to agree with her so I will wait and let her have some peace and quiet. This is my pal in better days
Quote: "Arizona ,in March really beats the crap out of spending the same amount of time in Washington State, so we had a great time."
LOL...I gotta go back there in a month or two when it's 115 degrees so we can get these thoughts of moving to Phoenix out of our heads.
Rich I have always been advised by the locals to "be outa here by May!"
the main reason I started this conversion was was the customizing opinions possible with a 57 as opposed to almost none with the 58. I checked on line for Frenching options for the 57 but didn't see anything on using 54 Merc trim rings. so I decided to see if I could figure something out. I couldn't see any way the 57 buckets would work so I got a pair of G.M. buckets. modified them to mount to the inside of the fender and relocated the adjusting screws to make them accessable from the back of the bucket. Next will come the trim rings. The O.D. of the merc rings is 9 5/8 while the ford mounting area is 9 3/8 It looks like trimming the ring to a depth of 1 1/4 inches will get the two diminutions to match. Not sure yet if I will have to build some buckets or spacers to get the proper look for the headlight in the stainless but whatever it takes will get done. Too late to turn back now. By the way I got the headlight doors and bezels from Night Prowlers, probably one of the best aftermarket products I have ever purchased.
1956 ford pickup rings works grate L-brackets on head light bucket cut fender like a pie bend tabs around 65.00 and 2hr your done
ragtop: I really like the clean-lines look you have on your front end...nice job.
'57imposter: how about posting some pics of what you've got so far.
ragtop not sure I understand what you did....having a little trouble visualizing....
Hi Guys
Well I started to french mine headlights, but changed my mind. I tunneled mine about 2 inches, I cut the pie in mind an then welded a ring of metal then used 56 f 100 buckets. For the outer ring i used early cordoba rings, squared the back of them off even. Little more work an time but they are different.
will try to pull trim ring and photo with it off this weekend and post also have other car I did on 1957ford.com one in convertible pages around page 17 ?
looks great, did you build the grille?
Zap- :unitedstates:
the grill is a old JC-Whitney head light pics.
Thanks much ragtop! I now see..... :003:.....good job!
Does anyone know what Ford used to get the wiring out of the door and Thur the A post on power window equipped cars? I know there are many aftermarket solutions but the construction of the A post and the inner liner of the door look to make them quite project to install. I am thinking that maybe they had a carrier that held the wires and took them stright into the large oval hole in the door jam.
I will post pics from the wiring manual, will be Saturday before I can get them up. Yes, it goes through the large hole in the door jam with a curved "thingy" to hold the wires.
Here we are! Just what the doctor ordered........... found the link searching Google.
Zap- :unitedstates: :deadhorse:
Today I hung front sheet metal. god what a miserable job it is. I learned long ago when disassembling a car to drill 1/8 inch holes througheverything so at reassembly time you just put a piece of welding rod through the holes and everything goes right back where it was. however doing this conversion I am not reusing any of the original sheet metal so everything is going on from scratch. very slow irrigating process. I won't give up. But, for today, I quit!!
Quote from: 57 imposter on 2014-02-22 18:42
so everything is going on from scratch. very slow irrigating process. I won't give up. But, for today, I quit!!
Don't give up. Keep working on it and don't be afraid to ask questions. there is lots of help on this site.
Are you doing it with fresh paint? If you are, I was just there. My brother and I did it together, we just made sure we both had nothing on are plates for the day, put on the tunes, lots of lights, shook hands and :violent1: It went very well but took the day, and even then I was hours on my own till I got it to where I was happy. Good luck! HRD
It is actually just a pre fit. the parts aren't even primed yet. just need to see if anything needs massaging before jamming and final assembly. The sad part is knowing that right after everything is fit properly, it all has to come right back apart.
It'll be worth the effort though. The problems that can arise if you don't do it will be much more costly and time consuming. Ask how I know. I did major work on both front fenders...caps, headlight surrounds, etc, and nose piece had both ends cut out and replaced. Never checked them on the car before I painted. When I did a rough check-fit finally(after paint), the gap between the fenders and nosepiece is not correct..probably because of the fenders rather than the nosepiece, but there's no way I'm redoing the fenders, so I'll modify the nose piece instead to fit better. I've got to repaint the hood anyway, so when I get around to putting the front sheetmetal on, I'll repaint the hood and nosepiece together on the car.
In most cases, you have to trail fit the pieces a few times before the paint is applied. Like Rich stated painting first will be a costly mistake.
I have decided not to bond my tail light housings on. instead I want to make some out of steel that can be welded on. Does anyone out there have any experience with making these or know someone who can?
I was going to ask a similar question about that. I assume your talking about the exterior surround ,which I think is pot metal.I was going to ask if anyone had ever got rid of that seam with lead filler or whatever.I am almost sure it can not be welded,but not sure about a lead fill. I think reproducing it in steel would be very difficult and that's why ford did not.Good luck and hope we get some help here as usuall.
Correct.The tail light housings are pot metal.Hard to repair and cannot be welded on.You may want to use a grafting bonding adhesive as they do in modern body shops.If that is your desire.
Thanks Jeff I think I will have it professionally done if I go that way. Al
used panel adhesive on fender extensions on both ends and the skinning of the roof. After adhesive cure time, skimmed a layer of ALL-METAL for bonding strength and moisture proofing and finished out with body filler. This work is more than three years old and under paint for well over a year. This is not a new process...has been done many times.
Quote from: gasman826 on 2014-05-03 09:56
used panel adhesive on fender extensions on both ends and the skinning of the roof. After adhesive cure time, skimmed a layer of ALL-METAL for bonding strength and moisture proofing and finished out with body filler. This work is more than three years old and under paint for well over a year. This is not a new process...has been done many times.
This is the way to go, just be sure to let the epoxy cure completely. Really simple and foolproof. You'll probably need some duct tape to hold it in place as its a vertical bond and gravity will want to pull it. This is something that anyone can do visit your paint supply house for materials.
Zap- :unitedstates:
As usuall, thanks for the info guys. Al
Fantastic work Gary.
Outstanding.
The thing that bothers me is the very thin edge of the housings. I am worried there is not enough surface area to get a good bond. I have used the panel adhesive with good results on other things but getting up some morning to find that hair line crack around the painted tail light housing is a reoccurring nightmare for me. The housings I have are intended to be bonded on but I am going to continue to talk to some sheet metal guys and see if they think they can do it. I am kind of working from the front to the rear and at the rate I'm moving, I have plenty of time to look for options.
Gasman, Did you buy stock in vice grips?
Doug: I tried brazing with a low temp rod...it didn't work at all. The housing melted before the rod. Bonding is the only way. I seriously doubt you'll find someone willing to try and make those...if you did you'll probably need to remortgage the homested.
I was under the opinion a while back that that panel bond was a real watery spray on type, but last year I watched my buddy replacing a roof on a hail damaged Mercedes using an application tool that layed the stuff he was using down in a heavy bead. That's what you'd want for the housings.
The housing are surprisingly malable, btw. I was able to greatly improve the profile fit to the fender by carefully tapping with a plastic hammer.
If you do it, go in first with a coarse wire brush on a drill motor or grinder and rough up the mating surfaces for a better adhesion.
As an added insurance, I flowed a bunch of por-15 into the fender/housing cavity. That stuff works it's way into gaps and also funtions as an adhesive....besides, you'll want your fender and housing bare when you assemble, so the por15 will give it the future rust protection. Make sure you also use the threaded studs/nuts for a mechanical join as well, and tighten those quickly before the panel bond (or epoxy ahdesive) sets up. Epoxy adhesives are available in different setting times, so get a slow set product to give you time to fine adjust the location.
Talk about overkill..LOL..I just remembered after the epoxy set up, and before the por-15, I kneaded up some epoxy putty and ran a bead around the inside also, forcing it in with my fingers. Not sure if it falls under overkill, or better safe than sorry, but you asked.
Lookin pretty sweet from where I am sitting. Al
Well yours came out looking just like they should. The guys at the street rod shop who did my pickup, have bonded lots of pot metal and never had a failure. Some of it is over eight years old. it's probably just my old paranoia that says if anything can go wrong with something like this, it will go wrong for me.
Well " Frankenford" left Friday for the body shop. Hung all the 57 front sheet metal on it and remembered just how bad I am at it and threw in the towel. They are going to hang the panels correctly, do all the body work from the firewall forward and get it in G2 primer. Hopefully, when it comes back, I will get re-motivated to work on the thing. I have just been walking past the car two or three times a day with no intrest in making any progress. This is a big step in the process and should relight the fire.
Quote from: 57 imposter on 2014-05-26 15:53
Well " Frankenford" left Friday for the body shop. Hung all the 57 front sheet metal on it and remembered just how bad I am at it and threw in the towel. . This is a big step in the process and should relight the fire.
Did you take a picture of it before you sent it to the body shop? We sure would like to see it.
Quote from: 57 imposter on 2014-05-26 15:53
I have just been walking past the car two or three times a day with no intrest in making any progress. This is a big step in the process and should relight the fire.
Don't be too discouraged by the lack of motivation. That happens to everybody at some point in a project as deep as yours. When I fall into those doldrums I start something else to get my mind off the "project" and when the second item is completed the motivation comes back. Also quite normal to just need a "rest" and clear the head, that's why we take vacations....
Doug, I hear ya on the lack of motivation, but that's a huge step you just took. I'm with Jay and I'm sure everybody else...we need pics! If you need help posting, let me know. I can lead you thru it over the phone if it'll be easier.
When my project was in the earlier stages, I would work on body work until I couldn't stand it no more, then do something mechanical, then started the interior, etc...crazy way to do a car but for me it was the only way I could keep going on the project. There were times when I would go months without touching it, but eventually it started coming together and I could see the light at the end of the tunnel. I like to make things look pretty, so once I finally got the paint on it, that perked the inspiration to get it done about 1000%!
Finally got the doors and trunk lid out to the body shop for finish body work and primer. A couple of friends helped push the body back into my half of the garage. My original wire job, while functional, looks like someone threw up wires under the dash so while its out, they are going to get a major clean up I also have to finish the wiring on the new Telovek system for the EFI. Both rocker panels have damage so I got one new one from EMS and there is enough material to fix both sides of mine. The big project for this winter and probably the most fun is going to be the frenched tail lights. I was going to bond the pot metal housings on but kept having a reoccurring nightmare of coming out and finding the hairline crack in the paint so became obsessed with finding an option. Right now, I am working with a pair of 50 Merc headlight frenching rings. They are a little bigger in dia. so I took about 3/8 inch off and it matched up with the drivers side fender very well. Note to self, don't assume when you make a part for one side of the car that a mirror image will fit the other as there can be quite a difference. I will probably have to order another pair so I can get a better fit on the passenger side. I think the big deal will be getting the tail fin extensions made but I'll deal with that when the time comes. throw in all of the miss. little problems that will come up and I should not have any reason to be bored this winter.
Glad to see you're back at it, Doug....post some pics when you can. I'm trying to get mine assembled to the point where I can start my engine wiring harness (Televek also). I'm looking forward to it for some strange reason. I was in the middle of installing the Gen IV evaporator unit, got sidetracked for a while...that's about the last electrical thing I need to install.
I have some pictures to post but this lousy windows 8 makes almost everything impossible, for me. you'll enjoy doing the Telovek harness. it looks a little intimidating but is one of the easiest things I have ever done on one of these projects. right now, the car is like a giant ice cube sitting in the garage. Gonna take two days to get it up to room temp.
Would like to see pictures as well. Gotta love living in the PNW during this time of year. I'm just glad you kept the snow down there! :003: :003:
It's cold all over...here in N Texas Tuesday it was 84, wednesday morning... 18, got down to 14 thurs. morn.
The snow missed us butt it is or at least was all around us. 16 degrees with no snow is bad enough. will keep trying on the pictures but right now I think it would be easier to make prints and mail them than to get them on this computer.
I have had a catalog laying around here from Waytek wiring for ever. I am involved in a couple wiring projects plus trying to clean up the mess that was under the dash of my own car. I needed to replenish my wiring stock so thumbed through their catalog and found everything I needed, then went to their web page for current pricing and was shocked at how good it is. A couple of examples, non insulated ring connectors are about 5 cents and the 10-32 nuts with the star washers that are intended to be used on circuit breakers but will work on anything are .013 cents each. some items have minimum purchase but I didn't see anything that was unreasonable. they are located at
www.waytekwiring.com Worth checking out.
Doug...that link wasn't working, for me at least. I'm curious to see what grade wiring they sell. I've been getting my wire at www.wiringproducts.com but the gxl and sxl are expensive.
That link didn't work for either so I tried changing the http://www.waytekwiring.com to http://www.waytekwire.com and it popped right up. I'll take a better look this evening but mucho thanks for the heads up. I'm always looking for non-insulated connectors because I soldier all my connections.
That link worked. Going from memory,their wiring prices are roughly 1/2 or 1/3 of what I was paying, however, I'm concerned about the country of origin as I couldn't find any "Made in USA" on any wiring products. I may be overly concerned about this, but I worry about made in China wiring. For sure the better grades available there will still be better than the primary wires all the local stores sell seeing as they are made in China as well. I don't know that their wires aren't made here, just a guess since most "made in USA" stuff is emphasized as such.
The fine print...Also read their quality statement in the "about us" menu. They, or their products, are no longer certified.....blah blah blah...due to cost issues. It was aa explaination I admittedly skipped thru, but I think they were basically saying don't worry about the U.S. standards certification, our quality is still good. They are not a manufacturer, they are a distributor, which may lessen the worries about them not being certified...I guess it depends on what they're selling
Doug..if you get wire from them, let us know what the markings on the wire are.
price comparison...10 ga sxl wire..wiring products 10ft=1.20 ft, 100 ft=.72 ft
waytek .37 ft w discounts for larger qtys
I hadn't thought about getting wire from them but you make a good point. I was only dealing with getting my wire terminal supply back up. Most of what I do is installing components that come with their own wire ,i.e. the telovek harness, so I am usually just terminating the wires and get tired of having to remove the plastic shield from all of them so they can be soldered. I'll be placing an order in the next few days and I'll include a roll of something just to have a look at it.
I have had a couple people ask me how many hours it would take to wire their cars and have no idea what to tell them. I checked with a local street rod shop and he said to expect about 40 hours to get a basic install. That's crimped terminals and tie wrapped looms. I use all soldered connections and cut and shorten all the harnesses to the correct length and install everything in braided loom. I know this adds a bunch of time but have never kept tract of exactly how much. anyone who has made a Rostra cruise harness the correct length will know what I am talking about. I also know with every install being custom and different, there is quite a bit of head scratching time just to figure out the best was to do it. So my question is, has anyone kept tract of the wiring time in their or anyone Else's car? I am kind of looking for a realistic starting point
I think that you have many variables to figure into this answer.
1. All stock or added accesories? Power windows, stereos, electric fans, door poppers, etc.
2. Wiring kit or stock kit. Wiring kit has writting on wires vs. tracing color codes of stock wires
3. Newer engines/transmissions have wiring harness to wire.
4. Battery relocation to trunk?
I probably have about 35-40 hours into my Ron Francis kit. Big Block/ 4 speed, stereo, power windows, poppers, custom guages, battery relocation to trunk, etc. Have been doing as I have time, so hard to say exactly.
I have taken my time and made sure wires were routed the way I wanted them. Any wiring connections outside the interior part have been shrink covered.
Hope this helps....
Kevin
Kevin The things you mention all impact time involved in doing one of these jobs. I am just cleaning up the wiring under the dash and adding power windows and power door locks. It seems like I've been at it way longer than it should have taken and I still have to get the power window and door lock harness in. There just doesn't seem to be an end to it. I would like to get my hands on a good working time clock and document every minute spent on wiring, my guess is it would surprise most people.
I could wire an engine to start in less than 30 seconds '"in the day". Lol. There are way to many variables to even make a reasonable guess, IMHO.
Estimating that type of work is almost impossible.
Sometimes I use the formula: Best guess + Murphys Law x 3 =
I guess the main problem is when you are dealing with someone who cant do their own wiring, is making them understand everything that is involved in doing the job right. I did a 74 Chevelle with an American auto wire, will fit, kit and the thing almost installed its self. The chassis harness probably didn't take a whole day and the under dash took a little more but the custom jobs are probably not worth taking on
"I did a 74 Chevelle with an American auto wire, will fit, kit and the thing almost installed its self"
On a few Hamb threads I've followed, most of the guys who do it for a living, or at least frequently, pretty much agree Ron Francis and American Autowire are tops in the field for all around quality. What surprised me is a lot of them were saying Painless was not even a close second. Rebel wiring is also getting alot of praise from the more cost conscious guys.
My big thing with Ron Francis, aside from quality, is they get deeper into Ford stuff than the others.
There are so many variables it is impossible to say how many hours to do any car from scratch. The many I have done varied from a T Bucket to full sized custom applications. The T took only one day, a 40 Buick took a little over a week. Biggest time eater on a job is hide or surface runs, mounting brackets, holes and straps and how far along in the build the car is. If you are thinking of doing it for profit I recommend an extensive meeting with the owner to determine all of the above and then give him/her an idea of hours with a huge + or - margin.
I agree with them on the Painless kit, won't use them if not forced. Just did most of a 1950 F-100 with a Ron Francis kit and wish they would use G.M. color codes, Painless does do a good job in that area,. I also think running one wire at a time per their instrustions is very time consuming. I used Quick-wire in my UniBody and liked it, have never heard of Rebel Wiring but will check it out. If your really on a budget and don't mind dealing with color code issues, Easy Wire makes a good kit. I have cussed my way thru several of those.
"I also think running one wire at a time per their instrustions is very time consuming." Not sure if you're refering to Painless or Ron Francis, but doesn't matter for me...I'm trying to do my very first wiring...at times one wire at a time is confusing, lol.
I think your estimate of 40 hours is pretty solid. We have used EZ wiring, Summit, and Painless in different cars in less than that, but if I were doing it for someone else I would estimate some more for safety. One thing kind of funny is that on my '57 I built the whole harness from scratch, and it didn't seem to add that much time to it. If I had to do it again I would stick with the custom made. That's helpful if you are doing your own car so you know exactly how each circuit is broken down.
Got my terminal order from Waytek. The stuff looks as good as anything I have been buying at the local bolt store. The order was for 1400 pieces including 200 Molex terminals and 100 nylon cable ties both of which were a little more money than the cable ends. the order came to $99.98 plus freight. and ,surprisingly, they list country of origin on each item. all but four were U.S.
Doug.....Good to know...thanks for keeping us posted.
Went to the waytek site and they offer a free catalog, showed up in just a few days. Prefer the real thing in my hands than scrolling up and down on the sreen.
Zap- :unitedstates:
now that am almost done with the hardwood floor project, might have time to really study it.
Zap-
now that am almost done with the hardwood floor project, might have time to really study it. work on the '57
C'mon Zap, let's get the priorities in order!, lol
Rich
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2014-12-13 08:39
C'mon Zap, let's get the priorities in order!, lol
Rich
Rich, you are living proof that ''clearer minds have prevailed''.
Zap- :unitedstates:
Went out yesterday to tack the steel tail light rings on the fenders and realized there was some factory lead around the tail light mounting surface right where there was going to be weld. Total lack of experience and heat, warpage anxiety set in and I starred at it for quite a while. realizing that I was not going to be able to "will" the stuff off I got my propane torch and heat sink compound out. There is a temperature at which the lead turns from a solid to almost water liquid, at that point, I simply wiped it off with a rag. actually proved to be quite easy. I did however decide not to press my luck and only removed the back inch or so. If the rest needs to come off, think I'll let a professional do it. It did give me a new respect for people who can maintain the perfect temp. to keep the lead in a soft putty state while they work with it. now beguines what I am sure will be many hours of starring at and wondering how to make the tail fin extensions
LOL..sometimes I stare at a project so long I forget why I'm looking at it. For years most of my problem resolves hit me in the morning when I first woke up..maybe I was subconsiously thinking about it in my sleep. Hasn't happened too much lately...the solutions don't seem to come as easily nowadays. Anyway, Doug, glad to hear your still working out the problems...gonna be a neat ride when you get it done.
Thanks Rich, Prime example of how it goes. About a year and a half ago I built a small panel that mounts in the center console. it holds 4 power points, trunk release button, mp3 port and a rocker switch to operate the Amp. I ran chassis power to the console location and spent much of the rest of the afternoon trying to figure out how to best tie everything together. Frustrated, I pulled the panel out and found that when I built the thing I had pre-wired everything to a 4 way plug on a short pigtail. matching pigtail coming from the chassis and its done. A good part of an afternoon wasted because I cant remember what I've already done.
I have done a bunch of remodeling...I am now remodeling the remodeling...finding reminders of what I forgot. When I remember what I did, I dread undoing it. I always try to make stuff "unbreakable"....unconventional home construction technics. Answers to problems at one came came in my sleep as well, now dealing sometimes with my own nightmares of the past... "sounded like a good idea at the time"! :003:
Lead loading...... Got to be one of the most satisfying jobs around. The previous car I restored was a 1960 Impala and after replacing the bottom of the door skins I got some distortion and decided to use lead and after getting the hang of it (knowing when t predict the point where it goes from soft to liquid!) I found it really easy to do. You've just got to make sure you clean the acid flux properly or it can ruin the paint job.
Got a metal fabricator over here on Saturday to look at the tail fin extensions for the new tail light housings. He took the pot metal stock housings with him we think he can use them for a buck to form the fin extensions. very nervous about the final cost as we really have no idea how many hours it is going to take to make them and if he can get them right on the first try, if not, then it will require doing them over until they are right. That could run the cost through the roof and could become a real nightmare but they are critical to the final appearance of the car. Since I am not trying to fool anybody into thinking this a 57, they don't have to look exactly like the original fins but they do have to look like they belong on the car. We will see what happens in the next couple weeks.
What is it that you are actually doing? Are you making a 58 back end look like a 57?
Will 57 extensions not fit right on? Making those extensions can be expensive.
That's exactly what he's doing....and lots more work than you'd think. Doug showed me some pics in Phoenix in '13. It's gonna be done right...nothing half a***d about it. I should let him answer that though, I just couldn't keep my fingers from pounding the keyboard.
Also, I'm not sure on the extensions, but I think he's trying to duplicate the '57 shape in sheetmetal rather than using the die cast housings. Reason being if I remember, He's wanting to eliminate the seams and has seen too many cracks in final paint on cars that tried the seam elimination with the die cast stuff. Yep, He's gotta have a really good metal guy to be even thinking about it.
You got it exactly right Rich. I got my new MacBook yesterday [finally threw in the towel on Windows 8] Hopefully I will be able to post some pictures since this Mac is a lot more user friendly. May try later on today but right now I have a little hound bugging me to go for his walk so unless I want to do it in the dark, and I don't, I had better go now.
I'm not saying anybody is right or wrong. I'm just sharing my experience. I smoothed as many seams as I could with the exception of the front gravel guard to fender seam and the front valance to fender seam. I still want to assemble the front clip and not have to put it on as one piece. I agree that both the front fender extensions (eye brows) and the quarter extensions are casting of another material and the fenders are steel. I respect that both pieces are different materials and manufactured in different manner. Both materials are going to react to their environment in different manner and amounts at different times. I prepared both surfaces by course media blasting and course grinding to provide grip. No gasket was used. I used 3M panel adhesive with the bolts and clamps and let it season. The panel adhesive must be recessed enough for filler. The seal gets a layer of All Metal. All Metal will bond to panel adhesive and seal the backside (underside) from moisture. A thin layer of regular body filler finishes the seam. Body filler bonds to All Metal but no so well to panel adhesive. Regular paint prep. PPG sealer, primer, base coat, and clear coat. So far, the body has been exposed to full summer sun and heat as well as freezing temperatures and back and forth. At this time, the paint is only a little over a year and half old. The rough work is more than three years old. Sorry for the water spots but I know everyone likes pictures.
I did (bonded)both my front eyebrows and tailight housings. The eyebrows I think, at least in my case, are the "iffy'er" of the two due to a minimal amount of bonding surface. I have no worries about the tailight housings at all. If the front cracks, I'll redo it without eliminating the seams and minimize the paint damage...then you may see some creative graphics appear on my car....flames, watson-type scallops, etc.
I've seen many '57's with different eyebrow approaches...most of the good ones I think were approached like Doug is trying to do to the back, but obviously much simpler. Simper as it is though, it's way above my sheetmetal forming capabilities...I tried though. Ended up in total frustration.
attempt number one at attaching photos
Holy crap! it worked
that front end looks perfect, great work deseaming/cleaning up the eyebrows and buckets.
Zap- :unitedstates:
That front end work is awesome! I think it is funny that i am trying to "undo" some seam smoothing done by the previous owner of my in search of original appearance... go figure!!! :003:
long time ago...I don't have any close ups of the eyebrow work.
'bout time we saw some pics from you, Doug! Congrats on getting them to work....guess you're liking your new Mac.
Keep in mind, guys, this is a '58 he's posting pics of, not a '57!!
Your body man is doing an outstanding job on that project. eyebrows look great. I never would have thought of the approach you guys are taking on the tailight housing...I was thinking one piece. Very clever...that's gonna greatly reduce the amount of work to get to the final result.
Hey Guys...Doug enlightened me as to the differences between a '58 and our '57's when I met up with hin in Phoenix. For those unaware as I was, one would think once the tailight issue is resolved, it would be a simple matter of finding a '57 trunk lid and you'd be good to go. That's not the case. The '58 tailpan goes straight across rather than in a few inches as the '57 does. That means the tailpan on a '58 is not in the correct position to just match up with a '57 trunk. Doug had to replace the tailpan with a '57 all the way around to the seamline directly under the middle of the tailights. Domino effect...I think that also created an issue with the trunk floor and for sure alot of other things I'm forgetting or wasn't aware of.
That is an awesome amazing job.
Thanks for the kind words guys, I knew when I started this project that that it was either going to succeed of fail on how the rear end turned out. So first thing I did was to kick the tail light problem down the road for about two years. It finally just wouldn't be kicked any further and had to be addressed. I found ,through pure luck some 50 Merc headlight frenching rings that were not very expensive so bought a pair to try. with some modification to the O.D. and mounting rings made they would fit the car and the complete 57 tail light bucket and lens could be mounted in from the trunk. This gave the tail lights a frenched look and tunneled them about one inch, both of which I was looking for. Than leaves me where I am Today. I have to come up with a tail fin extension that at least look like it belong on the car. and everyone is right, it will probably be a major issue. I am , however way past the point of no return so nothing to do now but keep hammering away. literally.
Well, not surprisingly, my sheet metal guy didn't work out. about four weeks of sitting on the housings and hadn't touched them. went over and picked them up. I talked to a another metal worker who has built some very high end magazine cars and while he couldn't work on mine he was very generous with information on how to do them. He said to form round stock to the profile of the fin and when I got that where I wanted it to, tack it to the body and build to it with pieces of sheet metal. Sounds simple enough, right? I've got a handful of 1/8 welding rod so i,m on my way out to see if I can come up with a decent profile. If I can, i'll build a buck so I can make two identical pieces in 3/16 round stock. Where I go from there, I have no idea. One step at a time.
Pulled the complete front end of the car yesterday, it now looks like it did two years ago. I have some several loose ends to take care of in the engine bay plus I need to get a half a coil off the springs. I also have a nasty repair to the rocker panel right at the very front end. Having the front fender gone will make that much easier. So with just 9 bolts holding the front end on, it just made sense to pull the whole thing off and put it away until everything up front is completed. Today is also the day I am going to try and make bucks out of the stock tail light housings to form the tail fin extensions. I plan to make two halves for each side then cut them down to fit the car. Tig them up and do some body work. Sounds simple enough, right? I mean what could possibly go wrong?
The old iceberg theory, the work you can see needs doing is only about a quarter o what lies beneath! At least you know you're getting right into what needs doing rather than covering it up or ignoring it. So many people ignore the front end of the rockers when restoring a car because they leave the fenders on, then wonder why the doors start to drop because the front of the rockers rot away and take the bottom of the door pillar with them!
I did my car three times. I learned a lot of forward and backwards steps. HRD
Doug...I was thinking about this little project a few days ago. I was moving some stuff around in my work area and picked up a couple of small anvils....the type you would maybe put in a vise, with the tapered horns. The backside of those horns is not to disimilar from the shape you need. The ones I have are too small, but a bigger one might be close enough that some time with a disc grinder might get you the buck you need.
yes back and forth, feels like standing still. I was building a tailgate handle from 3 different ones and now having it held up to the gate I see the handle is totally warped from chroming.... :005:
I think you should take care while using the taillight housings as a buck. I was working on one of them yesterday and they are very thin potmetal, maybe only 1/16 in some areas. I think you might dent them. you might want to fill it with Bondo inside to make it rigid enough.
What DJ said....they will move. Even though they are potmetal, they are somewhat maleable. When I did the seamless thing on my car, before I bonded them on, I mounted them as close as posible to following the fender shape, then went around with a nylon hammer and reshaped them to follow the fender alot closer.
A heat gun works well too....
We thought about that and I filled them with fiber tech and set two 5/16 carriage bolts in them. then cut out 1/4 " plates to mount the bolts torough which will be trimmed to the shape of the fin. I will also run some screws through the fin and into the fiber tech and sand the heads smooth , hopefully to avoid the fin from popping free and leaving me with two gobs of plastic mounted to steel plates. I am also going with 22 gauge steel which should be fairly easy to work. I am shooting from the hip on all of this and really have no idea how it will work out. I feel it is worth s try and worse case scenario is I have to come up with a plan B.
Plan B might have to be...
Make a pretty wooden buck that fits both sides if possible or two wooden bucks Then start gently hammering some sheet metal around it. Then you can weld the metal piece to the tail fin.
I did the gas strut mod. to my hood hinges and they are giving me some trouble..I installed my hood and am getting a gap between the hood and the fender right about where the hinge arm mounts to the hood. I disconnected the struts and the hood lays flat. was wondering if anyone else has seen the same thing. I will say that I am missing some of the inner structure towards the windshield end of the hood that was removed for louvers and suspect that to be the culprit. I know that the way the struts are installed in the hinge that they are applying full force to open the hood at all times. I am going to mount two longer struts like you would use for a toneau cover so they are applying no upward force when the hood is closed. hopefully that will correct my problem I am really just trying to verify my concerns about the missing inner structure and that no one with a non modified hood is having any issues. The old girl goes back to the body shop next week to complete the body work on the rear sheet metal modifications and the whole thing should be in feather fill when it comes back..
As soon as I can get some help at my house, I will know..... At least my hood will be temporarily on, but no fenders, so I won't have anything to compare/align with. I'm just doing it so I can make sure I have no issues with the radiator height/location or core support
Got my hood mounted tonight. No fenders, so not too much I can adjust, but one thing is obvious......the new lifts are just about perfect. The hood is balanced to the point that it'll almost stay wherever you leave it, including down, but just a little finger to lift it!!
Later I'll go out and check my radiator...the whole reason for getting the hood on first.
Doug..the "gap" you mentioned near the hood hinges...I'm assuming you're not talking about the seam between the fender and hood, but the height of the hood, so the hinge is causing the hood to bulge there?
I checked my radiator height, and although my oversize moon radiator cap has got to go, a standard cap fits with about 1/4" clearance....at least where the hinges are adjusted now.
That's really good, as the forward position of the radiator can stay as is!!Speaking of hinge adjustment, where does the side to side adjustment come in? It looks like the only adjustment in the 4 mounting bolts on each hinge is only vertically. Is it in the core support boly, so that the whole assembly is moved to the left or right? The end of my hood is about 1/4" total difference from lining up with the recess in the cowl for the vent cover...so 1/8 off center.
Doug....I'm inclined to think you have another problem. Back when we were going back and forth on the lift mounting, I mentioned several times that the critical concern is that the bottom mounting points were low enough to allow the hood to get to it's lowest (closed) position before the lift bottomed out. Is it posible your lift has bottomed out on it's travel before the hood is down all the way? Another indication of this would be if your buldge isn't showing up until the final few inches of closure.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2015-06-15 18:32
It looks like the only adjustment in the 4 mounting bolts on each hinge is only vertically. Is it in the core support boly, so that the whole assembly is moved to the left or right? The end of my hood is about 1/4" total difference from lining up with the recess in the cowl for the vent cover...so 1/8 off center.
You should be able to shift the core support over just a touch. But is the gap on the rear edge of the hood even with the cowl all the way or is there a little change in gap? If it is "square" give firmly shoving on the raised hood in the direction you need to move a try. Use even pressure on the hood near the hinge mounting points. You will find the hinges are very soft side to side. This is kinda like the 2 X 4 in the door to make the top and bottom line up right.
The next biggie is going to be the fenders. The mounting "gap" on the core support may need to be adjusted up or down. The door to fender gap is determinded by the height of the core support. It's up or down location has little effect of the hood fit against the cowl. Use a couple of layers of tape on both fender and door, I like to start buy getting the mid cowl nut on first then go down to the bottom bolt. Set the gap even from the center of the door/fender gap to the rocker bolt and tighten it down very snug. The fender should now be hanging loosely with the top under the door bolt and the cowl bolt loose. All the fender/inner fender bolts along the top should be in loose as well as the nose (three on each side of it). Put the other fender on using the same sequence. With just one fender on the assembly will tilt to that side a little. Now stand back and look. There is enough flex in the fenders that if the core support is too low or too high the top of the cowl bolt will be under stress and the gap at the top of the door and around the cowl will be off. Gently add or remove spacing at the support to get the gaps even. Line up the fenders at the nose and tighten. Now try to close the hood and look at gaps. If all is well tighten all down and check hood fit again. Lastly install and tighten the two fender/inner fender bolts at the rear of the wheel well and the inner/cowl bolt.
Sorry so long and a thread hijack, hope it goes well!
Not too long at all. I and others have asked in the past, but I think that's the first reply I've seen that is actually a step by step guide! Thanks. I'm going to print it off so I can have it in the shed. The gap at the cowl is pretty even, I think about as squared up as posible...just off center.
Pushing the hood at the side as suggested to center it is the factory way it was done.
Be careful and have fun!
Did it this morning...worked quite well. Thanks.
I'm going to post other questions I have on the front end assembly on my build thread....I guess we've went off subject on Doug's thread enough.
actually what i did was to disconnect the gas shocks and loose the hinge to core support bolts, adjusted the hood to hinge bolts to align the hood between the fenders. then adjusted the hinge to core support to get the gap across the nose correct. everything worked fine. reconnected the gas shocks and the gap between the hood and fender was off just as before so it is the pressure of the stocks that is raising the hood and causing the gap. I have ball mounts coming from Strut your Stuff and am going to mount two longer struts like I would with a Toneau cover and see if they work better for me. I already have two 24" struts so it will be a fairly cheap experiment. Again I suspect my issues are related to the missing framework and the rest of you may never have the problem i am having.
I'm curious...does your's take alot of effort to close because of the lighter hood?
Rich Not really because I went with lighter struts. Cant remember what pressure they are but will be taking them out either this afternoon or tomorrow and ill let you know.
I was still thinking about your distortion problem...light pressure to close once again is telling me the strut may be bottoming out...hate to keep harping on it, but it's the only thing that makes sense, unless some under support was removed in the hinge mount area as well.
Rich On the initial installation, the struts did bottom out so we moved the bottom mounting hole down to correct that problem. I just finished taking the struts out and the hood lays down like it should.. I really believe the problem is the result of removing the center portion of the inner structure for louvers. all of the inner structure at the hinge end is intact and the perimeter bracing is all there just the inner portion on the windshield end is gone but overall i think it makes the hood slightly more flexible, even tho we installed a 1 inch square tube up the center of the hood where the inner structure was removed. I have and am going to install some 24 inch struts to lift the hood from the windshield end so they shouldn't apply any upward pressure when closed. I really don't think that a stock hood would have the same problem. The good news, I guess is that I have available the complete set up for anyone wanting to convert their hinges. I have two gas struts with your choice of 120 or 130# pressures. with the top heim joints with the 6mm bolts. The bottom mount is made out of aluminum round stock with brass oilless bushings and 3/8 shoulder bolts with lock nuts. Ill sell the whole set up for whatever McMaster-Carr gets for two struts and heim joints.
I'm interested. I'll send you a P.M.
John
Got the car back from the body shop yesterday, they did all the finish body work and put to in Feather-fill. I will get it jammed and get the doors and trunk re hung and it will be ready for blocking.. I installed door seals over the weekend, that is an awful job in 90 degree heat, the glue sets faster than you can work with it. If they will just stick and the doors shut, I will be a happy guy. I am pretty pleased with the way my mis-matched parts frenched tail lights came out. I think I pretty much got the look a was after. They are actually tunneled 1/2" further than I wanted but it was going to be more work than it was worth to change them so Ill just be happy with what I got.
looks good.
1 question is that a stock gas tank seems the neck sticks out a lot more than mine?
Doug
You are doing a great job. Keep on working on the car. They always take time, but time will pass no matter what you are doing. You have something to show for what you are doing.
Jay
The fuel tank is a fuel injection tank from Bob Drake.. I thought the same thing but with the license plate on it looks correct however it rests on the gas cap instead of the rubber bumpers. not noticeable, visually.
Looks like you will be using 58 side trim ?
taillights look great!!! That's what custom work should be. Most people won't notice and they don't matter. The few that matter notice something was done be they're not sure what was done.
I am going to just use the lower trim an not the piece that goes on the door and front fender. initially i won't use the gold inserts. once I see how that works, I can add them fairly easily. I looked for some 57 side trim but had no luck and my stainless is in really good shape so just changed it a bit and am hoping for the best.
Excellent!! Keep up the good progress and the good work Doug!! Like the tailights alot.
Sometimes I didn't thing it would ever happen but last Saturday, we finally got paint on. Wish it was as close to being done as it looks but will keep plugging away and it will happen. Still planning to take it south for Spring training in March.
Very nice but I'm a bit confused - is it yellow or cream? Either way, it is a great milestone to reach.
78 Cadillac Colonial yellow. Florescent lights make it look off.
I see you finally got your computer to let you in!! Car looks great, Doug. I was going to ask the same color question as Junior. I love pale yellow...good choice, and once again, an outstanding job on that FIFTY EIGHT. I think folks tend to forget it's not a '57.
Connie and I are headed west Wendsday...a day earlier than expected. Hope you have the time and weather to make it to Texas in March.
How to improve a 58? Make it a 57!
looks great!
ZAP- :unitedstates:
went back and gave it a better look over, love the way you deseamed the front clip. looks like you must be planning on using just the spear of the 58 trim. as someone who punches and loves louvers wondering why did you only punched the back half of the hood? just curious not criticizing.
Doug...forgot about your Aerostar springs I think you said you had installed with the dropped spindles. If they are installed, and your engine is in, etc, would you post a pic of the ride height when it's off the roll-about casters?
Very, very nice. As soon as the paint hardens you tend to think "great, we're nearly there" but it seems to take just as long to clean/paint/fit all of the other bits & pieces as it does to finish the body!
Doug
After working on a project like yours for a bunch of years, it has to feel real good to have reached the point where you have some color on it. You did a lot of work on that car and it looks real nice. I'm very happy for you. Jay
Congratulations! It looks mighty fine. From the holes in the rear quarter it looks like you will be using the 58 trim. Does the roof still have the ribs?
Looks sharp. I like your shaved deck lid. You must have a remote opener.
Quote from: Zapato on 2015-10-05 21:43
looks great!
ZAP- :unitedstates:
went back and gave it a better look over, love the way you deseamed the front clip. looks like you must be planning on using just the spear of the 58 trim. as someone who punches and loves louvers wondering why did you only punched the back half of the hood? just curious not criticizing.
Yes, the plan is to go with just the spear with no insert. once its done, I will be able to look at it for a while and see if it works. the insert can be added at any time. The hood was punched by a guy named Paul Harper. he works out of the most unassuming garage you ever saw in Roslyn Wa. He is a builder of some note as he has created 2 or 3 magazine feature cars including a baby Cad. that is just outstanding. Anyway since I had driven off from here without the picture of the hood that I liked, I just left it in his hands to give it what he thought it needed. we ended up 3 louvers short of what I would have chosen but he said when you start over the front of the hood the louvers start looking toward the sky and he tries to avoid that. but I wish he had done them. so I do have at least one fly in the ointment however I have pretty much gotten used to the look but if they ever get to where they bug me and I come across good hood, I will start over. really doubt that will happen but its always an option. The trunk is opened with either a button in the console or with a button on the key fob.
That car looks great. You have definitely done some grade A work on this car to get it where it sits now. As soon as I get time, if you dont mind, I want to merge all of your build and project posts into one, and move it into the build thread section. Your build is one that a lot of folks wouldnt have thought of, and I think the project should be where it can be appreciated. Definitely very impressive, for sure.
Outstanding work.I love the transformation.I am probably the only guy on earth that likes the 58 front end sheet metal looks.I saw it done as a custom thing back in the day.(I love 57 front ends too)
Really magnificent work.
Now that this has been combined and shifted over to the Project Builds section I have read through the whole thing. Years ago, my first foray into 57's was exactly what you have - a 58 converted to 57, so by all accounts it looked like a 57 with a 58 ribbed roof (or was it really a 57 with 58 roof?). It started out as a 4 door, converted to 2 door then given a 4 inch roof chop. All front panels were welded together to form a one piece tilt front. I'll see if I can find some photos in the archives. Had a 390 and 4 speed.
well they are finally here. All the little and big issues that I have kicked down the road during the build are coming home to roost. got the car on the hoist and based on the frame to hoist pad clearance, I may not have to do any adjusting on the front end. have spent three days cleaning up misc. issues under the car. I went ahead and replaced the 1 inch lowering blocks with 2 inch to try and get the rear end down to an asseptable level. spent all afternoon yesterday trying to find and then modify U bolts for the longer blocks. Got them done but threw in the towel for the day. Today I need to cut a section of the head pipe out and remake it to correct an exhaust leak. Then double check all my brake line connections and the brakes should be ready for fluid and bleeding. I have some fittment issues with the front coil spacers so I will have to drop the coils back out. I didn't reinstall the front callipers or shocks and the upper ball joint nut is just finger tight so getting the springs back out will be no problem. I put a new long block in about two years ago so once the other nagging problems are out of the way I think I'll see if the thing will start. After that, it will be on to exterior trim and then the dreaded door and Quarter window builds. sorry about the typos and bad grammar but I am working on my lap top, on my lap with a very needy dog laying across my chest so I am having to look around and over him to try and see what I am doing.
Well Doug..you did say you were shooting for a March(?) completion to drive that puppy down to Arizona....here's a little inspiration for ya:
lol...."puppy" refering to the one in your garage, not the one in your lap. Our next trip is tentively scheduled for March.
Makes me want to leave now. Man it doesn't get much better than that. Every time I see a 1963 1/2 Galaxie I kick myself for selling mine.
Well I just completed a week of work on a project that should have taken about an hour. Trying to get a brake pedal in the car. all the parts are new but I have had them on the shelf for years, maybe even ten. used a vacuum bleeder on them two or three times and still had a very spongey pedal. Used a power bleeder twice, still no luck. Yesterday I started to isolate components and plugged off the master cylinder and have a good solid pedal so that appears to be ok. Ive been over the whole system soo many times i can't even count and there are no leaks.. So today I am going to really fill up the pressure bleeder and push enough fluid thru the thing to float a boat and get the air out on the system which just has to be the reason for my problem. Just thinking, why doesn't someone invent a dye that you could put in the master cylinder that would show up at the bleed screw to tell you when the line was completely flushed. The week hasn't been a total loss as I have installed the headlights, grill and re-bushed the rear springs got new shackles in to replace the home made flipped shackles and got rid of the lowering blocks. Final ride height is now a total crap shoot but won't know until I get tires on and back on the ground, which I won't do until I have this brake nightmare fixed. Did I mention, I am working outside, cause thats where my hoist is, so I am racing bad weather. been winning so far but am getting fewer hours a day that its fit to be out there. Nooo Pressure!!!
I would venture to say we all have had weeks (days, months) like that. Hang in there! My pedal feel was garbage until I changed to braided stainless lines, but I may have accidentally fixed the problem in the process of putting them on.
Lot of that going around...I spent hours trying to bleed my front brakes. I chaulked it up to hydroboost, new calipers, and inexperienced operator. Got a reasonable pedal, stopped there as I knew I'd be opening up the system again when I hooked up the back brakes.
I am in the same spot reasonable pedal but needs more work. At least i got it back on all fours and moved back inside. installing stock shackles really took a lot of ride height out of the back end. May still need a little more but I'm going to give the front coils more time to settle before doing anything else.. Really need to get cracking on the interior.
That looks all around great, Doug!! Those wheels with that yellow are perfect. I didn't realize you were one piecing the front end....wish I had the guts to do that.
What did you use/how did you arrive at the shortened headlight rings.
They are 54 merc headlight rings that Night Prowlers were selling. they were shortened to match the mounting diameter of the ford headlight rings. 54 chevrolet head light buckets mounted from the backside and they were done. It was all just an experiment that I like the look of so I kept it.
Stunning!
Zap- :unitedstates:
Ever since I got this car, I wanted a set of original Yankee tri-bar mirrors. After looking for several years and making one bad purchase, I found a very good pair. They have been on the shelf ever since waiting for the new build to get to the point where they could be used. That day finally arrived, so today I set them up roughly where they would mount, walked back a few yards, looked ,and said. " Oh Crap" I'm not sure they go with the rest of the build. They could be mounted on the door which is where the others were but that made the pass. side useless and I know that once mounted, anywhere, there is no going back due to the 4 #10 screw holes I have to drill to mount them. So I am looking for opinions. Take a look, and if so inclined, treat it like we were just sitting in the garage looking at the car. What would your thoughts be?......
I tend to agree, I love the mirrors but I don't think they "go with the car".....opinions are worth what you pay for them...... :003:
Hmm, don't think they work in my opinion. Though not sure what would look good there (sorry, not much help)
I have to agree...they just don't seem quite right.
Your not alone on the detail stuff...I bought three sets before I decided they looked right...and they were Chevy emblemed! I still have the '56 Ford slant back antenaes that I love, but just can't make up my mind.
By the way, the door mount seems to be working ok for me visability wise, but I did make sure I bought fairly tall mirrors with larger than normal glass which I think helps. They also lean out away from the door a bit.
Kinda along with the visability thing, after driving Connies new Honda, I'm sure liking the back up and side cameras...one of those is in the future for my '57...especially with the rolled pan in back!
I cropped a pic of mine just so you could see what I was talking about. The embossed Ford logo is sticking surprisingly well, btw, lol
Rich....I think yours are more in line with what I am looking for. You don't happen to remember what they are for or where you bought them,do you? If I was building a bone stock version, there would be no question about using these. They just don't fit the mild custom look I have.. The up side is good ones are very hard to find and are expensive when you do.. I priced plating the poor set that I have and Alberta Plating wanted $125.00 per piece to rechrome, and there are 4 pieces for two mirrors so thats $500.00 a pair. So it's probably back to E-Bay for these to see if I can recoup my money. Thanks for the thoughts altho I pretty much knew how it was going to turn out.
Socal in Phoenix, lol!! I need to find a close up of what your looking at...
The embossed ford logo was a rectangular aluminum stick-on that I think was for door sill logos. I got them at Socal also...trimmed with scissors.
A note of caution...the logos are available in two sizes, and I'm not sure if the third pic is showing the size I actually used...and I'm not sure if I used the smaller or the larger, but I think I remember trimming the smaller first and it wouldn't quite cover the bowtie. They are also available in either blue or black oval.
BTW, the reason I decided on the door location vs fender was to not have them in the way when working in the engine compartment.
I see you're online, so make sure you see the last edits I did on that post.
Thanks i'll check with them. I think I bought some of those Ford logos from Sacramento Vintage way back when I was doing my 56 F-100. They were for the scuff plates. The good news for today is I found an upholstery guy who will make house calls. He is going to come and put the headliner in. After that its front and rear glass. we may make that March trip yet.
Wow! everything including the part number. You are the man!!
Cool...I may get to see it afterall. Connie I think is planning on our next trip being March also...a month earlier than usual. Earlier this year we had to go in March for Uncle Jack's funeral...driving was a nightmare...400 miles of snow/ice. April would be better, not necessarily for the Phoenix weather, but the areas either of us have to drive thru to get there.
BTW, if you do the door mount, remember to mount them away from the vent window path.
I googled the part number and it came up on Socal's web site but couldn't find it on their web page. Guess I'll have to go old school and call them today. Hope I remember how. I think it involves dialing a phone and interacting with a real person.
i
You can probably find them on a Chevy parts supplier's site....god knows there's a ton of those around. Posibly even without the bowtie.
Got them coming from Socal Az. I have seen a difference in branded and n0n-branded products and these are only $50 a piece so, like you I will work around the bow tie. Im thinking perhaps a red circle with a line thru it would work.
"Im thinking perhaps a red circle with a line thru it would work"...................HaHAAAA I LIKE IT!!
It took most of the day but I got the drivers side quarter window 90% in. The window channel, when jammed in good and tight is going to be ok. I will just install the windows in the up tight position and there will be no way to roll them down. Should work fine. It was very frustrating trying to get the glass in. There is a specific order to make everything fit and when you don't remember the order, you have to figure it out. I needed four hands but there is only room for two. finally got it and the other side will go together much faster...TOMORROW! for now, I quit!
Got all the parts on the way to install the fixed quarter windows. I couldn't figure out a way to get the run channel to wrap around the rear of the window to make a good water seal so I finally just threw in the towel. Got the power door and trunk locks working today and started on the power window regulators..I am installing Dolphin units and I'm having to use the old trial and error method to get them spaced right. I suspect it will take me twice as long as it should, but we'll get there. of all the jobs it takes to build a car I hate doors the most. A guy should be here any minute to see about installing the headliner. Once that is in, The front and rear glass can go in and a good portion of the interior also.
Headliner went in yesterday and I am waiting for the glass guy to install the front and rear glass. The gut who did my upholstery, two years ago, made a headliner out of upholstery material. he has done that on three of my other cars so I didn't think anything about it. Turns out he knows how to install that type of material and having someone who hasn't done it before proved to be an issue. I offered to buy a Tailor made headliner but he was sure he could make what a I have work.. Long story short, it doesn't look perfect and I am hoping once all the window trim is in, it will either hide or make some wrinkles look better. we'll see. I may just have to learn not to look up when in the car..If the glass install goes ok, Interior will be going in soon.. This thing may get done yet.
Installing a headliner is very tedious. A well sewn one is a must. It took me a week's worth of a little at a time, as I have a hard time working with my hands over my head, and kneeling on steel bending over backwards isn't all that easy either, lol. I did have a few wrinkles that stayed until I finally got the glass in and the garnish mouldings.
I am confused though, the guy who sewed it is not the same guy that installed it?, or did you install it?
Don't forget...some materials can be shrunk to remove wrinkles. Some with water/steam, others with heat, others, like mine, are synthetic and don't react to anything.
The guy that sewed the headliner has done every car I have built but he has been on dialysis for the last two years. He was planing on installing it but it is just too hard on him so I contracted with another installer to do it and he is not used to the material that we used. I think old Larry will be a little hot when he finds out what i did but I will take the car to him to make and install the carpet and I think i'll have him redo the seats in my Magnum. That should get him over it. The brackets came yesterday for the quarter windows so it's back to the glass shop tomorrow to get the glass trimmed. The installers that came yesterday to put the front and rear glass in thought they were coming to do bonded glass and had no idea how to rope in glass so I had to send them home and will talk to the glass stop that cut the rest of my glass about doing them.
With the help of two other amateurs i managed to get the back window roped in. By the time we finished that, we had decided we were experts and the windshield would not be any harder. What a rodeo that turned out to be. Fortunately, we were smart enough to quit before we broke or bent anything and our status was returned to that of amateur's. Will talk, or beg, the glass company on Monday. I must be getting close to finishing with the car because I am sick and tired of looking at it. For now it's back to the garage for another couple rounds with tweaked rear bumper brackets. hope to get it mounted yet tonight and that will finish the back end.
Look at it this way, Doug....you DID get the back glass done. That's progress!! Oddly enough on mine, I think the back glass was harder.
The worst part about setting a deadline for yourself is like later today, sometimes you just gotta walk away from it for a while.
Post some pics when you get a chance.
Panel adhesives work great, the ohms use them extensively . Just be sure to use a major brand not one of the cheaper brands. Years ago I frenche'd lights on my 51, might one bonded one neither failed. It's been discussed here before if I remember right gasman bonded the roof skin on his car. Biggest trick doing it regards fighting gravity it will want to slide as it sets up. Duct tape is your friend for this,but in your case since your fenders are off the car just set them upright. Prep is just like welding get everything clean prior to bonding. Lots of videos on line showing companespecially such as ford or bmw using adhesives. Biggest drawback is cost of the guns, ask your paint supplier if you can borrow or rent one. You won't be disappointed.
Zap :unitedstates:
duct tape or a boat load of clamps...
Not my thread of course, but I'm confused....I have no idea what project Zap was refering to when talking about the panel adhesive, it sure didn't cross my mind that it was the headliner.
So, Doug, any updates, or did you throw the infamous monkey wrench thru the windshield?
I think Zap pushed the wrong button however that does look like the best way to install a roof skin.. Anyway after much agonizing about air getting in under and blowing out the headliner we got the car on a rollback and headed for the glass shop to get the windshield put in. Everything went fine and its out there. I am hoping the subtle attitude of the installer was just his normal personality because he didn't seem real enthused about working on the car. I have to admit that after trying it myself I can't blame him.
I have to keep reminding myself when I go into most shops that this is their day in and day out job. Hard to get enthused on a daily basis, lol.
When I was at the Exhaust shop earlier this week, not one of them said anything about the car. They do most of the hot rods and customs in town...just another job.
Everything is really looking great, Doug. I don't know how long yours was without glass, mine was 10 years...really made a big difference, esp. the backwindow and windshield.
Headliner looks really good from what I can see of it...what fabric did you use?
I don't recall any talk of interior stuff...whatcha got?
I am kinda trying to end up with a car that represents what I would have done, had I been able to do one in the early 60's so I went with basic pleated vinyl. The headliner is made from the same material, hence the problems with it being installed by a guy who was not used to working with regular upholstery material in a headliner.
I just realized something in that pic you posted. When you were having trouble with the windshield install, was it the headliner that was creating the issue? The way you have the headliner pulled around to the outside of the flange I do not believe is correct. That is exactly the way it is suppose to be done on the back window as there is no tack strip back there, but the front does have a strip, although after 55 years it's kinda useless because it has hardened. I stapled and used a hot glue gun in that area, trimming the fabic off on the inside. I suspect that is going to make it harder to get the rubber seal to fit and seal. Everything I saw in regards to the install showed the headliner fastened and trimmed inside on the front glass. Hopefully some of the members will verify what I just told you.
On the other hand it works in the back, so why not in the front.
BTW, I love that upholstery. It is going to look awesome installed. Always wanted a yellow car. What is that seat?
Rich
My Edsel had the head liner wrapped over the lip on the front and rear, on the Ranchero it was just fastened to the tack strip. Not sure which way is the correct way. Ranchero was a SanDiego car and the Edsel came off the Ford line in Louisville......
I believe you are correct on the front headliner, however few if anything items of the headliner install are correct. I was afraid to trim back the material from the lip because I don't know if anything else is holding it in. The rear went over the upper lip with no problems so I am hoping the front will do the same. Will get some sealer in there just to make sure. Again, thats one reason it is sitting in a shop where experts can deal with it. The seats are from an HHR. they will fit right in with my G.M. mirrors
That's funny. My paint color is from an HHR, btw.
I have been having big issues with getting the engine to start. Finally figured out it was a fuel delivery problem. I drained the gas when I started the project but knew there had been fuel in the filter all this time so I thought it may have gummed things up.While changing that, I decided to pull the pump out of the tank just to have a look. What I found was the pressure hose from the pump to the outlet fitting was in very bad shape. I was surprised since I had made sure and used E-85 safe hose. Went to my local parts expert to discus my problem and learned that there is E-85 hose and then there is E-85 submersible hose. I may be the only guy on the planet that didn't know that. I bought and installed the hose and the car started and ran just like the old days. I am still getting a check engine light but now that I can move the car around, we will be able to get it to a guy that can figure it out. I am going to try and get it into the upholstery shop today to get the carpet made and the door and quarter panels installed. I am kinda racing a guy with a 40 Buick Sedan and if he gets there before I do, I'm screwed for quite a while as my upholsterer can only do one car at a time.
I've got some issues with my check engine light...not sure exactly what it is, but I need to get anything that may affect it completed (exhaust) before I fine tune out the problems. My code is OBDI...I think it's gonna get expensive finding a reader...289. @ O'reilly's so far.
Doug...I forgot what your engine/drivetrain are. I guess I was a little surprised when you said "the check engine light"
Actron CP9185 scanner on AMAZON for $124.95. Does OBDII and optional OBDI if you buy the optional cable for your vehicle. I've used for awhile. Does the job considering the price. Not a SNAP-ON but it's not $3000.00
I have a 5.0L H.O. with an AOD. I had been running a modified stock harness, but with the new long block I put in I thought I would upgrade the harness. I installed a Detail Zone Telovec harness. I eliminated the EGR and installed the EGR eliminater from them. The problem I have is what you should expect running without the EGR so its possible the eliminater they sent me may be defective. The computer will not self check and we hooked up an older Snap On scanner that could get nothing, and I mean, 0 out of the computer. The guy I will take it to has the latest of everything plus a wealth of knowledge on these engines. Hopefully he will find something. It did run just fine out to the upholstery shop so I don't think it's anything too serious.
Yeah, same with mine...running, but with codes. Mine are all related to air intake/egr/etc. about 8 or 9 codes, but could all be one thing. The check engine light doesn't come on until the car has been run for a while. I think one code said something about innsufficiuent air flow. Good luck, I need to find someone here that knows these engines, eventually.
Well Doug...I'm anxious to hear how thw the windshield install went, and if you were able to drive it home from the glass shop to test the front end alignment. I hear it's been wet up your way, so hopefully no problems there!
There is a reason they call them professionals! I took it out on Thursday afternoon and they called me Monday morning to come get it. I asked him if it was a fight and he said "no, it pretty much went right in." The guys that know how to do this type of glass install are getting a little scarce. Glad we still have a couple around here. Didn't drive it home because it was coming down in buckets so just used the roll back again. I did drive it out to the upholstery shop for carpet install. Didn't get on the freeway but it seemed to do ok, also still needs to go to the front end shop. Was mocking up the dash board and realized that it really looked like crap. lots of sanding marks under the paint and other body work flaws. I was going to get really upset with the guy that painted it until I remembered, It was me. I called my painter and asked him to take the thing and make it look like I didn't do it. When I get it and the car back, it can go in and work any bugs out and the car will be pretty much done. Been a long road.
Good news on the windshield and the alignment.
Don't ya hate it when something doesn't turn out as you expected...most would just chaulk it up in the "good enough" column..glad you're having your painter redo the dash...you'll be much happier. Kinda hard to ignore something like that when you're looking at it everytime you drive.
Got the car back from the upholstery shop so I guess it is time for the final thrash. Hope today to get the door and quarter panels out and vapor barriers installed and the rear seat belts mounted. Then I can start at the package tray and work my way forward with final assembly. I'm really ready to be done with this one but am already having those dreaded "whats next" thoughts. God forbid another car! With any kind of luck, This thing could Be ready for the road by next weekend. On a side note. Yesterday I went to the shop where we did my tail light conversion and helped the owner start to install after marked fuel injection on his 57 Pontiac. He put the Fast throttle body on a 472 Cad. He has never been able to get that to work just the was he wants it to. He is using one from a company called FITECH. It is a very impressive system and you can find them on line. I would encourage anyone thing about fuel infection to at least look at this system. More on it later in the Tech thread when we get further along.
Finally got the GM mirrors installed and working, thanks to Riches measurements. I'm down to nagging small issues now like the lost retaining nut for the headlight switch and being one foot short of being able to complete plumbing up my A/C dash vents. Have hose coming from Summit and found a headlight switch at Autozone for $5.00 That will work fine since all I am running with it are relays. Since we are planning to head south in March, I am going to have the tires sipped just in case we run into some weather. I am really beginning to thing I can see the finish line, Just hope it doesnt turn out to be a brick wall.
Looking great Doug....really pulling together nicely. Glad you were able to get the mirrors working. I guess I lucked out...I was looking more at where they needed to be to clear the wing window when opened...not sure I ever looked to see if I could adjust them for actual use...just assumed I'd be able to, lol.
Still planning on driving the car to Phoenix...that's awesome. Can't remember if I mentioned it, but my wife decided to change our usually-in-March trip to Feb. so we'd be there for her aunt on the 1st anniversary of Uncle Jack's passing, so I won't be able to meet up with you at the Pavillions again.
Get your camera ready for that trip...we want to see pics ALL THE WAY!!! We can start a new thread here with our cars on trips!
And you may want a steering wheel too!
"tires sipped"??? what's that?
I probably spelled it wrong but they slice thru the tread crossways about every 1/4 inch or so. It doesn't affect tire wear but gives an all season radial much improved grip on slick surfaces. Hope to give it a pretty good road test this morning. Off to coffee and then just some driving on the freeways around town. Not enough confidence ,yet, to get too far away from the towing company. finished the dash and installed the front windshield garnish molding, except the sun visor mounts, last night. finding the mounting holes thru thick vinyl was a real challenge and by 9pm I thought it would be best to start fresh today. Hopefully I will have a good update on the steering modifications and gearing changes later today.
If you take it out on the freeway could you possibly do a test with the windows down for wind noise off the mirrors? Mine are a rectangle design and the wind noise is horrible at freeway speeds so maybe changing to the oval type may be better. Thank you.
Wonderful...wish I was there in the back seat! those maiden trips are awesome.
Put about 50 miles on today. a couple bugs, the right turn signal was canceling the cruise. Installed a relay for led tail lights and that fixed that issue. Also had to remake the trunk latch rod as it was a little flimsy. As far as handling, the 3/16 I moved the upper spring pockets back, allowed me to go from 2.5 to 3.9 degrees of positive caster which really helped with the power rack and pinion steering. If I was to do it again I think I would move the pockets 1/4 to 5/16 inch. I wanted to to get well past 4 degrees going in so we could get rid of some shims to bring it back to 4 degrees. It drives so much better now than it did with the stock settings that I really don't have much to complain about. also changed out the defective vdo speedometer and just ordered a GPS sender. It sounds like the hot set up, we'll see. Other than a couple of squeaks and rattles to chase down everything seems to be doing what it's suppose to do. Plenty more driving to do before we head out on what should be about a 5000 mile loop.
we're waiting, lol. Any more driving?
PM being sent on your trip, btw.
Goodguys, Scottsdale March 4-6 !!!!
Got about a hundred miles on over the weekend everything seems to be doing what it should. The dash rattle turned out to be just a glove box door latch adjustment. So for so good but you know a gremlin can rear its ugly head at any time so I need to get lots more local miles.
Colour really suits the style, looks very nice.
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2016-01-09 08:36
If you take it out on the freeway could you possibly do a test with the windows down for wind noise off the mirrors? Mine are a rectangle design and the wind noise is horrible at freeway speeds so maybe changing to the oval type may be better. Thank you.
I have driven it on the freeway and am getting pretty good wind noise off the drivers door. The passenger door seems to be pretty good. I really think the noise is mainly caused by the new door seals having not settled in properly. I need some good hot weather to perhaps improve that issue. I really don't think the mirrors are causing ,or improving, the situation.
Quote from: 57 imposter on 2016-01-12 14:57
I have driven it on the freeway and am getting pretty good wind noise off the drivers door. The passenger door seems to be pretty good. I really think the noise is mainly caused by the new door seals having not settled in properly. I need some good hot weather to perhaps improve that issue. I really don't think the mirrors are causing ,or improving, the situation.
OK, thank you. I drive with the windows down until the temps get below 60. I can put my hand by the mirror to direct the wind around it but that gets old after a few miles :005: I also have some wind noise from around the door seals when the windows are up and haven't been able to isolate the exact location yet.
Talk about Christmas in January, I got three UPS deliveries yesterday. The last one at 6:30pm was my GPS speed sender. Couldn't wait so I put it in last night I hooked up the hot lead last and the unit had hooked up with 8 satellites, in the garage before I got the nut tight. Long road test this morning, and the speedo. works perfectly hit two of the radar speed signs and was getting the same reading on my dash. About a year before I started this build, I changed out the .279 gears for .370 gears because with the AOD transmission, the thing wouldn't go over a freeway overpass without down shifting. After the change, I was climbing hills like crazy but was running about 2400 RPM at 70. My mileage went from about 26 - 28 MPG down to 19. So I bought a set of .230 gears and with the speedometer working right, I was able to get a good RPM reading. I'm turning 1500 at 60 MPH and about 1850 at 70, exactly what I was hoping for. I will be making about 180 mile loop to visit a friend and will get a good mileage check but expect, and hope it will improve considerably.
P.S. I am running 205-75R-15 tires
Thats some impressive milage and hope you get some good numbers on the trip. I'm running 3:89 gears with a 3spd OD behind my 292 and I average 17-18 on trips and thought that was great :005:
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2016-01-12 18:48
Thats some impressive milage and hope you get some good numbers on the trip. I'm running 3:89 gears with a 3spd OD behind my 292 and I average 17-18 on trips and thought that was great
The old 5.0L EFI with an AOD transmission will deliver very good mileage. 25 +MPG is common in the Mustangs they came in. A friend of mine has one in a 50 Ford with 3.0 gears and gets a consistent 30 MPG. He did this when we were traveling together and fueling at the same time so I watched him put way less gas than me every time. Hope this change will at least get me back to where I used to be.
I hope mine does as well on the mpg. I shouldn't be too far away from that. Really happy to hear you haven't had any major issues pop up, sounds and looks like you did it right. several pm's sent tonight, Doug. Now to my thread with MY today's drive!
I too have the aod with a 302 but have not had my fairlane out for any real drive time or pulling any inclines at all. Do you think the .230 gear ratio is your final set up? I appreciate your post, it's been nice to follow your progress.
The 66 Falcon Ranchero I built with a 302/5speed/3.23 gears made an honest 30MPG running 70 - 75 MPH. It was a speed density EFI with no modifications.
The newer engines are so much more efficient. Even my wifes old 91 Crown Vic Boat would get 26-27 on the hiway and her newer Fusion ( 2008 ) doesn't do much better..
But I love my old Yblock and don't care about mileage really, the cost of having fun..
I have always held the position that if you are worried about gas milage your hot rod/street rod/custom car gets you're in the wrong hobby! But bragging rights are nice.....
I agree with you Bill but take a little different position. My 57 is my daily driver, I don't drive as much as I use to and only put 6000 miles on it in the last 12 months. I don't own a new car so the $30,000+ saved buys a lot of parts and gas :003:
Quote from: Wirenut on 2016-01-12 21:57
I too have the aod with a 302 but have not had my fairlane out for any real drive time or pulling any inclines at all. Do you think the .230 gear ratio is your final set up? I appreciate your post, it's been nice to follow your progress.
[/quote
Just went back and re-read my post on gear ratios I put in .320 gears not .230. and yes, they will be my final ratio win loose or draw. Tired of buying and installing gears. It gets to be an expensive experiment. I wanted to slow the engine down about 3 or 4 hundred RPM's and the new gears appear to have done that. I agree, to a point, with some guys that say mileage should not be a priority however i think when building a car you make your engine and transmission selection and setting that engine up so as to provide the maximum performance and efficiency is just part of doing the build right. Also there are a lot of these cars that are built that barely see 2000 miles a year. Fuel, no big deal. Ours will regularly see 5 to 10 thousand miles a year so, especially when gas was going past $4 per gallon, it can become an issue.
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2016-01-13 08:46
I agree with you Bill but take a little different position. My 57 is my daily driver, I don't drive as much as I use to and only put 6000 miles on it in the last 12 months. I don't own a new car so the $30,000+ saved buys a lot of parts and gas :003:
Understand....my job/jobs over the years (Navy & Director of Facilities at a museum) required reliable, instant start and go vehicles. Then the wife gets a bunch of medical issues and the 300 plus mile trips are out in the street rods. The F150 is now the "trip car" and with family scattered all over the US we are on the road some! I did use the 36 for two years as a daily driver with no issues but then got married and deployed for 10 months. Not a good idea to leave a wife and two kids with only a 36 street rod so the first "new car" came along. A 73 F100 and it's been ongoing since.
Hey Doug, when you get back to filling us in with updates, could you post some info on the gps unit you bought? Was it made for your specific speedometer? Did you get that 180 mile trip done?
I have been trying to get side and front panels made for the trunk so I can get them to the upholstery shop. Got them done late this afternoon so will take them out to the shop tomorrow. Also didn't order enough carpet to do the trunk so I have to get more of that coming. We have been having some crappy weather so I haven't made the big loop yet maybe this weekend but the forecast isn't good and the Hawks are playing Carolina on Sunday morning. If the weather improves and the Hawks don't play any better than they did last weekend, I'll have plenty of time to do it on Sunday. Now to the GPS, I got it from VDO. They say it will convert any electronic speedometer. It will transmit either 16,000 or 200,000 pulses per mile. very simple to hook up with a power lead a ground lead and a wire that you hook to ground for 200,000 PPM or to a switched circuit for 16,000 PPM and one signal wire that you run to the signal input terminal on the speedometer. The case is water proof so you can mount it anywhere in or outside of the car. the unit measures about 2 1/2 by 1 by 3/4 thats not counting mounting tabs which I am going to take off as I just used mounting tape. I'm thinking about building a frenching bucket into the fresh air cowl vent close to the pass side wiper. I will mount it flush and paint it body color and I think it will be barely noticeable but it will give it a good clear shot at the satellites. I got it from Summit.
Sounds neat. After I asked about it, I did some searching and found a number of different types and manufacturers. I saw them as seperate units not anything to do with the actual speedo, for as little as 30. They're just a digital readout. If I have trouble getting my speedometer to work, I'll eventually change out all the gages to a better brand., so that 30. one would fill in nicely until that happens. Some of the pricier heads up display ones were kinda cool, except you'd have the box sitting on top of the dash.
put about 160 miles on today, everything seems to be working as planned. Temp is running about 10 degrees hotter than it did before. This time I installed a 10" condenser fan and I suspect that the additional air restriction is the cause of my temp increase. Sure glad I made that grill easy to remove. I'm going to take the condenser fan off and see if it's causing any problems I didn't really need it as I have my regular engine cooling tied into my A/C compressor. About the only time the engine fan would run was when the A/C was on so I just figured that running a smaller condenser fan would be some less current draw. Probably just a bad idea.
In dealing with street rods (very small frontal area compared to our 57s) and heat issues I have found that pushers cause more issues then solve problems. If you have room for a good seven blade fan use it with a shroud. If a mechanical fan will not work or fit look at a high end puller that comes with a shroud.
Also before going out and spending for parts get an infrared heat gun ($19.00 at Lowes) and get the real water temp off the outlet neck and the real water temp at the bottom tank. The placement of your temp sending unit plays a role as well.
And last but not least, if it ain't loosing water it ain't over heating. With a seven pound cap running 210 - 220 will cause no problems at all, just makes ya nervous as heck!
Quote from: Ford Blue blood on 2016-01-21 07:54
In dealing with street rods (very small frontal area compared to our 57s) and heat issues I have found that pushers cause more issues then solve problems. If you have room for a good seven blade fan use it with a shroud. If a mechanical fan will not work or fit look at a high end puller that comes with a shroud.
Also before going out and spending for parts get an infrared heat gun ($19.00 at Lowes) and get the real water temp off the outlet neck and the real water temp at the bottom tank. The placement of your temp sending unit plays a role as well.
And last but not least, if it ain't loosing water it ain't over heating. With a seven pound cap running 210 - 220 will cause no problems at all, just makes ya nervous as heck!
I agree with everything you have said. I run a 195 thermostat and a 215 fan stat. the car is not overheating, it is just running closer to the fan stat temp than usual. I have an infrared heat gun but haven't checked it as I can tell where the temp is by the gauge and the fact that the fan isn't coming on. running it 70 mph yesterday with about a 37 degree ambient the gauge was noticeably lower than running around town, To me That indicates an air flow problem that will probably get worse when the air temp gets into the 90's+ around here. I am going to remove the condenser fan and really believe that will return the engine temp to where it ran previously,
Doug, I just went back and read this thread in it's entirty. Lot's of stuff I had forgeten you did, so that was neat to read the whole thing thru. I did not find what I was looking for however. Must be somewhere else, so I'll just bring it up again...I know you ended up changing the front springs several times and was getting frustrated with the whole process. The last mention you had here was the Aerostar springs. Was that your final spring, and how have they worked out? I know you have R & P, but I also forgot if you had the Granada dropped spindles.
I ended up with the aerostar springs and a one inch spacer. that gave me 12 1/4" from the spindle to the fender lip and 7 1/2" from the front seam of the rocker panel to the ground. It could be a bit lower but this is a very drivable ride height. It rides like a town car around here but the real acid test will be some of those mid-west roads. The dirt is from my road test yesterday too cold to drag a hose out for a wash job.
Thanks, but also need to know what are you running for spindles?
Granada spindles
Sounds like that's the way I need to go. Thanks Doug. Weird...so many guys have said the Aerostars won't work with dropped spindles, and we'll probably both end up with that combination.
Only just caught up with this, my Ranchero has Aerostar springs & dropped spindles, can't comment on how it works as it isn't driving yet.
They are probably right if you just put the springs in. The spindles alone didn't seem to do much and springs alone added was too much. The one inch spacer got me to exactly where I wanted to be. Wish I had some high math to quote, but it was just dumb luck. I am also using cleaned up stock 5 leaf rears with new pucks and Monroe air shocks with minimal air pressure [because my wife can put at least 30% more crap in a trunk than it was designed to hold] and no lowering blocks. I know you have the 6 leaf rears so you may end up having to do some fine tuning with lowering blocks.
I was going to remeasure everything before I pulled it in the garage to tear into the sreering issue, but I forgot. I guess I could still use the spindle to fender measurement.
The new long block you put in a while ago....is it cast iron or aluminum?
Funny you should mention the " I was going to measure everything before I tore it apart, but I forgot club." since I happen to be the self appointed president, for life, of that club. I like the spindle to fender lip measurement because it removes the tire pressure issue. you can even block up the front hubs and measure with no tires. setting the spindle height will get you close but nothing beats getting it set roll it out on a nice flat surface get back fifty feet and look at it. that will tell you in a hurry if you like it or not. The engine is cast iron..
"The engine is cast iron.." D@#$ ! Just when I was starting to think I had some idea of why dropped spindles with Aerostars works for some guys and not others.
Don't forget, the spindles and springs alaone, without the spacers, don't work. The car will end up way too low. might be ok for a show only car but no good for a driver.
I'll plan on ordering the spacers as well. My guess is my car will sit higher than yours due to (probable)difference in engine weights or weight distribution.
Limey's car, btw does not have the drivetrain installed yet, so the jury's still out on his.
May be a while before I get to mine though. Between exhaust shop, A/C shop, and now steering problems, I'm broke!
The spacers I used were Mr. Gasket # 1285 They are a little oversized but they are split and I took about 1/4" out to decrease the dia. then glued them to the top of the spring so they wouldn't move around when i put them up in the spring pocket. So far the thing rides nice and I have hit a couple of curb cuts a little harder than planned and it hasn't bottomed out.
The very last thing that went in this car was the dash board. the reason being good accessibility to correct any issues while they were easy to get to. Good decision! I was also going to charge the A/C at the same time for the same reason however didn't quite get around to in. Bad decision! hooked the pump up today and can pull vacuum on the low side but it won't pull the high side down. something appears to be blocked. This system was apart for about three years but all components were capped as soon as they were disconnected. god forbid it is the expansion valve, which it probably is, because that is going to be a bear to get to. I'm going to get ahold of tech service at Vintage Air before I do anything to get their best guess. The hits just keep on comin!!!!
Ouch! I'll keep my fingers crossed. I know the feeling...I'm getting tired of working on mine, just want to drive for a while. Not happening soon though, although I'm trying to figure out how to come up with some money to have my steering and coil springs done in a shop!
One thing I found out last week when I had my system charged...the A/C guys have a leakage detector! It is a hand held unit that works like the gas company's gas leak detector. After they pulled a good vacumn on the system and charged it, he went around to all the joints checking for leaks. Fortunatly there were none, but had there been one (or two, or three), I would have known where it needed fixing. I had no clue, and I was dreading trying to figure out which of the 15 or 20 fittings was the culprit.
I picked up a set of the Mr Gasket 1285 spacers today, btw. They were in stock at our local off-road parts house. 34 for the pair.
I was always frustrated with a leaking AC system. Most newer systems are charged with leak detector dye in them from the factory. Unfortunately, previous leaks leave dye behind for years. Since vehicles last so much longer, O-rings get old and leak. I hate the process of vacuuming a system and waiting to see in the negative pressure drops. At best, only 30# of negative pressure can be applied to a system that will generate positive pressure exceeding 250#s! If one has the leisure time to leave the system under vacuum over night with no pressure loss does NOT guarantee a leak proof system. The next step would be to charge the system. Now, you get the glasses and special light out and/or the sniffy thing out and look for leaks. Two days later, customer brings the vehicle back and is not happy. All that expensive refrigerant is lost!
Several years ago, I modified a gauge set hose to accept shop air pressure. I apply air to an empty system and check potential leak areas with tire leak detector foam. If I find a leak, note it and move on. Often on a older system (or a newly installed system), there may be more than one leak...especially old O-rings. Over the last winter, one of my systems went from working to having FOUR O-rings needing replacement. Using shop air is MUCH cheaper and more environmentally responsible than using refrigerant to test a AC system. Pressure test over night at 175 psi. Leaks found and evacuate the system and charge with confidence.
A/C can be frustrating. We have access to every A/C piece of equipment known to man and can still have all issues you mention. my issue right now, is that I can pull vacuum on the low side but it registers nothing on the high side.
All that aside, your pressurizing idea is very interesting and I am going to talk to my partner about it at coffee,this morning. I suspect, he'll have a tool made by noon. I'm sure a guy would want to run that air thru a good drier prior to putting it the system. Thanks for the tip!
My A/C vacuum system issue ended up being a faulty gauge set. hooked up new gauge set and it pulled vacuum on both sides only issue not is it won't hold vacuum. another friend of mine, has the ability to pressure test my system with nitrogen. that is a very clean way to pressurize. I'm fairly confident it is just one or more of the O Rings. Had to get the trunk hinges and brackets painted today so that required masking the entire car as well as most of the garage. heck of a job for a fairly minor paint project. got it done so its off to the upholstery shop on Thursday for trunk carpet.
Quote from: gasman826 on 2016-01-28 08:16
I was always frustrated with a leaking AC system. Most newer systems are charged with leak detector dye in them from the factory. Unfortunately, previous leaks leave dye behind for years. Since vehicles last so much longer, O-rings get old and leak. I hate the process of vacuuming a system and waiting to see in the negative pressure drops. At best, only 30# of negative pressure can be applied to a system that will generate positive pressure exceeding 250#s! If one has the leisure time to leave the system under vacuum over night with no pressure loss does NOT guarantee a leak proof system. The next step would be to charge the system. Now, you get the glasses and special light out and/or the sniffy thing out and look for leaks. Two days later, customer brings the vehicle back and is not happy. All that expensive refrigerant is lost!
Several years ago, I modified a gauge set hose to accept shop air pressure. I apply air to an empty system and check
potential leak areas with tire leak detector foam. If I find a leak, note it and move on. Often on a older system (or a newly installed system), there may be more than one leak...especially old O-rings. Over the last winter, one of my systems went from working to having FOUR O-rings needing replacement. Using shop air is MUCH cheaper and more environmentally responsible than using refrigerant to test a AC system. Pressure test over night at 175 psi. Leaks found and evacuate the system and charge with confidence.
If I remember right, O-rings are directional in their sealing... they depend on differential pressure and surrounding mating surfaces design to work. It is not uncommon for O-rings to leak in the opposite direction from design. The pressure test should actually called for in an AC system. Vacuum testing is the second best. Pressurized systems are more inclined to leak under vacuum, kinda of a conundrum.
A/C fix will have to wait. Car went off to the upholstery shop today to get the trunk finished. Nothing very fancey, just want it not to look quite so raw. I'm ask going to experiment with a fuel tank vent that will hopefully get rid of the faint gas order in the garage. I'm going to vent it thru a home made activated charcoal canister. won't be a reclaim type. I picked up a 1/2 gallon container of charcoal at the local pond shop now just have to come up with a container that will fit in the limited space I have left under the hood. I found 4" PVC pipe and end caps which would work perfectly if I could hide it but being out in the open, it really looks like a plumbers special. Think I'll keep looking.
Some foreign cars have remote power steering tanks that mount on fenders look almost like the old Ford flathead oil filters.
Zap :unitedstates:
Ya I thought about doing some junking [not exactly my favorite sport] but it will have to wait for way better weather than are getting right now. I also have access to some pretty nice stainless tubing and could also make something that wouldn't look too obnoxious. It will have to mount on the right side of the core support so it needs to be at least reasonable looking. since the car is gone, I might look into that option today.
Getting tired of the rain myself, if I could figure how to SAFELY remove the valve out of a disposable propane bottle would use one for a radiator overflow tank.
Zap :unitedstates:
How about a stainless radiator overflow tank that is easy to mount (often used on hot rods). Screw on cap with O ring seal. Easy to fill with activitated charcoal.
I've also got a faint fumes odor from my tank vent. Not that it makes any difference, but I had rerouted mine a shorter route than OEM, but ends up in the same spot over the license plate. If I understand, you are going to reroute yours so it vents in the engine compartment?
I was going to put the vapor can under the hood but am rethinking that. I think If I duplicate the factory vent line that came off the side of the tank and went up to the top of the inner fender and made a loop back down, I can run it through the body and install the canister, on the frame, somewhere near the rear tire. If I do that, I can just make the canister out of PCV pipe with a couple of glue on caps. After having made a canister out of stainless, I would kind of like to replace my plastic over flow container with the stainless one.
That tank looks great! Where did you come up with the brass fitting for the top?
Zap :unitedstates:
alternative?
http://www.hotrodsbydean.com/product/hr-8001-vapor-can/
Quote from: Zapato on 2016-02-08 17:38
That tank looks great! Where did you come up with the brass fitting for the top?
Zap :unitedstates:
Radiator shop $5.00
Quote from: gasman826 on 2016-02-09 16:39
alternative?
http://www.hotrodsbydean.com/product/hr-8001-vapor-can/
YIKES! $250.00. Including the charcoal I've got less than $50.00 in mine
Finally got the trunk finished, took two tries to get the tire cover right. had a bunch of white left over so had him make it out of that. When I put it in next to all that yellow, it looked like a giant marshmallow sitting in there. of course I was out of yellow so I had to order two more yards to do the new cover. I am not a big fan of contrasting binding so I wish we would have used tan on the carpet binding but I had the material to do it in yellow and it is,after all, A trunk. So I am satisfied with it. ended up making the vapor recovery canister out of ABS and mounted it under the car. I am going to finish the Stainless canister and use it for the radiator overflow. Hope to get the trunk lid back on tonight.
Looks great Doug. I like the contrasting binding.
Now I'm curious about the little ramp shaped thing in the middle/back of the trunk...fuel line clearance? Or is that a '58 something or other?
Thats a cover for the in tanks inc. in tank pump. Got the deck lid re mounted and it closed! It's not in perfect adjustment but with a new, very cold gasket, I'm going to count it as a win. I will let it sit for awhile then see if I can get it to look better altho it may take some of that direct Arizona sun heat to get it done.
This time next week, I'll be looking at that Arizona sun...or moon. Excited to get on the way. Check my post in off topic stuff for our Az. plans.
I'm forgetting if you have your trunk lid shaved?
Put dye in the non vacuum holding A/C and ran it two days. checked with a black light and no leaks. It makes my other friends idea of pressurizing with nitrogen sound like even a better idea. It seems reasonable to assume if it will hold vacuum, it will hold pressure, apparently, that is not necessarily true. I'll continue to run it and we'll see. Put about 260 miles today and it looks like it is about ready to hit the road. I have to mess with the temp sender as the gauge does not appear to be accurate. Since I have to run some coolant out to do the sender I think I'll also replace the thermostat as I do think the engine is running warmer than it used to. Small, fine tuning, jobs. Already starting to wonder, whats next? I know I don't have the ambition to do another complete car build. I wouldn't mind finding a, period correct, boat to pull around with the car or perhaps s vintage motorcycle. We'll see.
It's my understanding a vacumn test is only a indication of a good/bad system, not a for-sure thing...just kinda lets you know you don't have any big holes somewhere.
I hear ya on the lack of ambition to do another project. I've got a year or so of odds and ends to finish up on mine, so I don't have to worry about it until maybe next summer. I'm just soooo glad it's finally driveable, I just want to get some miles on it hopefully without breaking anything, lol
I'm thinking maybe a teardrop trailer for a smaller project than a car might be good.
The one thing we are overlooking ( I forgot this earlier in a comment I made on the subject) is the primary reason you pull a vacuum on an AC system is to evacuate the system of WATER! The leak test aspect is a secondary reason.
A teardrop is kinda on my list also. I am really cramped for storage space so if I do either a boat or a trailer, it is constantly going to be in the way and will have to be moved around to get the Ford in and out of its place. In the , If it ain't one thing its another dept. I filled the tank yesterday and the next time I looked at it the gauge was pegged. obviously a dead short in the sender wire. I cut the wire where it comes out from under the trunk carpet and nothing changed so I know it isn't the sender and something has happened between there and the gauge. everything looked good under the dash but I will unplug the sender wire from the gauge and check for a bad gauge, [fairly unlikely]. A friend said "just run another sender wire" which would be the easiest way but the wire is part of the tail section loom that comes down the center of the firewall, along the transmission tunnel, under the back seat and out under the quarter window and back to the tail lights etc. So if something has pinched one wire in that loom what are the chances that somewhere down the road it might get another? That system was checked multiple times to avoid just this situation so I am a little baffled as to how it happened. So, this morning I am getting my mind right not to do the easy fix but to take out the front seats, console, rear seat base and drivers side upholstery panel, find the problem and fix it right.
So much for being "Road Ready".
Quote from: lalessi1 on 2016-02-23 11:17
The one thing we are overlooking ( I forgot this earlier in a comment I made on the subject) is the primary reason you pull a vacuum on an AC system is to evacuate the system of WATER! The leak test aspect is a secondary reason.
Ya ,thats for sure, you will always have to do that.
Do you have the OEM temp gauge? I'f the CVR for the gauges goes bad it will pin both fuel and temp.
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2016-02-23 14:53
Do you have the OEM temp gauge? I'f the CVR for the gauges goes bad it will pin both fuel and temp.
no its VDO crap. these gauges have been nothing but a one problem after another. This turns out to be an internal short in the gauge its self. the gauge will peg with no wire on the sender terminal. got one coming from Summit, will be here by Thursday.
Have the feeling I'm going to be doing the same thing with my TCI gages. Great to hear the fix is simple though and you don't have to disassemble the interior to replace wiring.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2016-02-23 16:22
Have the feeling I'm going to be doing the same thing with my TCI gages. Great to hear the fix is simple though and you don't have to disassemble the interior to replace wiring.
About one more issue with VDO gauges and the whole mess will be going in the garbage! Because of all the problems with the gauges in the car I used Autometer in the uni-body and they are working fine. Not sure they will fit my panel but that can be corrected.
These local road tests, after a rebuild project are so important prior to heading out on the road. I have been having to top off the radiator every time I check it. I thought my plastic over flow bottle may have been cracked so I replaced it with a new stainless canister and made sure everything in the over flow system was correct. I ran the car thru a heat cycle let, it sit over night and it needed to have water added. thats when the intake manifold gasket nightmares began. but I decided to pressurize the radiator before going crazy and tearing the whole top end off. Turns out I could not build and pressure in the radiator. It is an aluminum radiator and we shot windex while trying to build pressure and found that the joint between the filler neck and the top tank was leaking air. So it was pushing water when it warmed up and sucking air when it cooled off. Kind of odd that there was never a sign of a water leak at that joint. Anyway, the radiator shop guy tells me that the correct way to fix it is to take it out and have the filler neck heli-arked to the top tank. So that may be something anyone running an aluminum rad. might want to bury back in the old memory bank. The up side is that I now know what I will be doing Sunday afternoon.
A more detailed inspection of the cooling system reviled that the radiator neck wasn't leaking. I applied fairly high pressure to the system and found two leaks that would only show under full pressure. thats why I was getting no leaks showing on the garage floor. Got those fixed and took it out to run it through s heat cycle and I'll see how I did in the morning.
Fixing the leaks didn't do any good so I installed a new thermostat. Ran it about 50 miles this morning. I think I had some air trapped in the system because the temp was fluctuating for a bit ,but it settled down and held right 195 degrees. pretty cool weather but even in traffic, the temp didn't go up and the fan didn't come on. For the up coming road trip I wired in an indicator light that will tell me any time the fan comes on. That will allow me to compare the temp gauge to the fan sensor as I know it comes on at 210 degrees. I'll get some more miles on before we head south, but it finally appears that the temp issues are behind me. Fingers crossed!
Sounds like you got it nailed. I'm not sure of the accuracy of my gage at this point, but I've had no cooling/overheating issues at all. My gage hasn't reached 200 yet, and I can't remember what temp switch/relay I bought for it, but the fans do come on occationally when iddling for a while, and I've had nothing dumping into the overflow at all.
On the 4.6 I used in the truck, I ran a 195 thermostat and had the computer set to turn on the fan at 210. Mine operated like you are describing. The fan only occasionally ran. My 5.0L is setup the same except I use a 210 temp switch to operate the fan instead of the computer.
Doug...I just realized time must be getting close for you to begin your trip. Everything still looking alright...car....Texas? pm me your cell number so I can contact you on the road. pm sent
Another one for my "If it ain't one thing, it's another" file. I am getting lousy [19] mileage. A further check shows that my check engine lights are not working which indicates they are not getting a proper ground thru the ECM. The ECM is well grounded directly to the battery. We also can not download any info out of the computer. I suspect it may not be going into closed loop. The real problem is that these older ECM's are almost impossible to find. We just got all this figured out yesterday so I still have a lot more looking to do on Monday. The engine runs fine so this will have no effect on out road trip other than the fuel bill. But I sure hope to get lucky tomorrow and find a used one to at least try......The one I need, just in case anyone has one laying around, in E9ZF-12A650-C2A code A9P !988 to 1991 Mustang GT
dOUG......This is an incredible website for ECM's....lots of good said about the EEC-iv....which I believe is both of ours.
http://oldfuelinjection.packrad.net/page88.html
click on the EEC program codes and scroll down for a list of vehicles according to the ID code you posted. THE a9p APPEARS TO BE THE KEY.
Hope it helps in your search. This site reaLLY SEEMS TO KNOW THEIR STUFF...MAY BE A SOURCE FOR A UNIT AS WELL.
Sorry about the caps...can't control my fingers apparently.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2016-03-13 16:59
dOUG......This is an incredible website for ECM's....lots of good said about the EEC-iv....which I believe is both of ours.
http://oldfuelinjection.packrad.net/page88.html
click on the EEC program codes and scroll down for a list of vehicles according to the ID code you posted. THE a9p APPEARS TO BE THE KEY.
Hope it helps in your search. This site reaLLY SEEMS TO KNOW THEIR STUFF...MAY BE A SOURCE FOR A UNIT AS WELL.
Sorry about the caps...can't control my fingers apparently.
Checked it out, Lots of good info for the 4.6 but just general stuff for the older 5.0. I have access to two big bone yards, one local and one 160 miles away. I'm going to check with both of them in the morning. If I don't have any luck, I'll worry about it when We get back from vacation. They don't supply any parts or repair.
I guess what I was thinking, was if the basiccomputers are the same for many cars(EEC-iv), only the programming being different, then maybe a shop that reflashes computers may have tha ability to change the programming to what you need. Looking at the list of computers they listed for the older 5.0 fords made me think the odds of finding one exactly what you need are slim.
Checked about everywhere available in this area and no luck finding a computer. Put two new O2 sensors on it today and thats it. As they say, 'it is what it is" and were heading out with it on thursday morning. AMS in Davie FL. will rebuild it and I will probably send it to them after we get back. I may also check with a couple stores in Phoenix. Arizona Speed does EFI stuff and there was another company in the same building that built custom systems but I can't remember their name. I don't have any worries about the thing completing the trip as is but if I can find a fix along the way, all the better.
So, I assume yours is OBD I also?
Good luck on the trip. Call me from Phoenix. Enjoy the games! Do you have internet capability on the road?
sent pm
I got it. Thanks
Two days on the road and a little over 1000 miles. Spending the night in Page Az. looking at what is left of Lake Powell. Hard to believe but so far, I am averaging right at 5 mpg better than I was getting before the new O2 sensors I think the ones I took out were probably the original ones so they really didn't owe me much. That is still pretty far from the 28mpg I have,at times, been able to get but its a start. Probably will still send the EEC to Florida when we get home. Off to Scottsdale tomorrow for the Pavilion cruse tomorrow night and on to Tucson on Sunday.
That's awesome Doug...congrats. How fast are you driving on average? My comfort zone hasn't gotten up over 65mph yet....lol
Also, talking about gas. Reading a post on the Hamb got me wondering...I haven't filled my car yet, sorta leary of leaks, but at 3/ tank I haven't had any yet. But the Hamb member posted he wasn't able to use the automatic shutoff at the gas station's pumps. Is that the way all old cars are that have the "big neck" all the way down...I'm thinking there's no way backup pressure would build up, so it's probably not a good idea to put it on auto and walk away??
Been in the 60's and 70's here for quite a while, until today. Never got in the 40"s and cold wind. Snow coming in tonight.Not to worry, though..suppose to be in the 80's mid week.
Where are all the pictures?
No snow this way Doug! I also found out today the auto shutoff @ gas pumps does work on our '57's so forget that question. Right now your probably looking at palm trees overhanging the Pavilion Cruise...I'm jealous!
Just got back from the cruise. almost all mussel cars much fewer cars than the last time I was was there. we will see about next saturday. I think I mentioned before that my car was running warmer than it did with the old engine.. Well my fears about being in warmer weather have somewhat come true. checking the gauge with when the automatic fan comes on I suspect that I may have a sender issue. climbing the 5 mile hill coming down from Flagstaff, the gauge was sitting right on 225 at the top running the speed limit 65. We have run 75 and a little at 80 but not very much 70-75 is plenty. anyway we head for Tucson in the morning and I am going to try and find a VDO sender cause when I start looking at a temp gauge, I quit having fun. This is my fourth small block Ford and I have never had anything even close to a heating issue so i'm hopeful that it is more of a gauge issue than a cooling problem
Sounds like a lower turnout than 3 weeks ago...bummer. I think when I was there it was the biggest I had seen it yet.
Here's an Arizona website that I use. Sorry should have asked ssoner if you had it.
I'm hoping it's just a gage problem for you...any coolant loss? I seem to have the same issue in that I don't know how accurate my gage is. Mine has never got to 200+, and ordinarily that wouldn't be an issue, but I don't think that's hot enough for the computer to put it in normal operating mode.
http://arizonaautoscene.com/events/
my old engine never built any heat and almost never turned the fan on in cool weather. I may just buy a mechanical gauge and install it for the rest of this trip. VDO has no retailers in this area. I don't mind it running over 200 degrees but I want to know exactly where it is running. I'll have a couple days in Tucson to mess with it.
Nothing worse than not being able to trust your gauges. I often use a cooking thermometer to confirm coolant temperature. Snoop around the kitchen and find a candy thermometer or one of the meat thermometers that you stick in the turkey.
I left my inferred at home. ya just can't bring everything you own. I will probably buy and install a mechanical gauge just to get me thru this trip. kind of hate to because it will spend the rest of my life sitting on a shelf but you gotta do what ya gotta do. Off to Tucson, maybe I should just put some tape over the gauge, then maybe it wouldn't bother me.
Ya', I don't carry a meat thermometer on road trips either.
Did you get the new temp gage put in? How's the car been running?
We had snow here yesterday, not much though.
Didn't put the gauge in, i am pretty sure the sender is screwing up but it can wait till I get home. It hasn't been showing warm enough to worry about. Other than that non issue it has run just like it's suppose to. Hasen't used a drop of either oil or water so nothing to complain about. Shame we had to cancel our Ok. trip but I'm sure this won't be our last trip south so maybe we can give it a try next time. We did Santa Fe and Abq. today. The Unser racing museum has great. We are going to start wandering towards home tomorrow in no particular direction. I am really ready to get my dog back. Hopefully you will have some good news soon on getting your car repaired.
I am really disappointed I had to cancel....it would have been so cool. Really happy to hear your car is performing as it should...it's a real tribute to your build ability.
I'm meeting with the insurance adjuster tomorrow as it turns out. I wasn't expecting it until next week. Hopefully before long I'll have a check and can get the car into the repair shop. If all goes well, I should be back on the road fixed sometime late April. Their adjuster for the building damage did his thing today.
I did take mine out for a drive today, starts right up every time, cold or hot. Tomorrow also is the alignment shop to have the Castor increased as much as possible.
We made it home. Happy with car overall. 4000 miles and never had to look at anything. Had a little more trouble with driveway approaches than I would like so will be looking at getting the suspension up a little. I will probably order some 6 leave rears and have the spindles reamed to get the drop out of them. I am also going to try a new temp sending unit and will replace the power steering pump. Pump is working fine but is noisy. Irritating, It just started making noise when I got the car back on the road. I never made a peep before. Nothing for now except a good clean up. I'm tired of looking at the thing. Time to get the Road King out and ready for spring and to start the restoration on the XS650.
All in all pretty darn good imho. Glad to hear you made it back home safely.
As it turns out, I probably could have done the Oklahoma thing without any issues. I just didn't know at the time I felt I had to let you know. I put 200 miles on it Sunday with no hitches. Even shut the car off 100 miles from home!
Glad it's working as it should now. all the nagging little issues finishing one of these projects can really be a pain. unfortunately, you had one of the little issues create a big problem. Any word yet on when they will be able to get it into the body shop?
No, I'm waiting on the adjuster to email me a copy of the estimate, then I'll talk with the body shop once I have numbers to work with. If I don't hear from him tomorrow, I'll call him. I've got to be 100% certain they understand there will be NO adjustments, surprises, add-ons, whatevers after they are done.
Tomorrow is the day. after my daily trip to town for coffee, I am going to go to a friends shop who has a two post inside, mine is outside, drop the lower control arms off and ream the Granada spindles to fit the 58 lower ball joint studs. My hope is that will take most or all of the advertised 2 inch drop out of them. I am thinking that between this change and the addition of heavier rear springs that I will get the front end up at least 1 or more inches. Now if I can just remember to get very good measurements before we touch anything, I should end up with good information.
Got the job done today. The car is running stock Granada spindles, Aerostar springs with a 1 inch rubber spacer. We had made 5/8" spacers to go between the bottom of the spindle and the rubber boot on the balljoint. We took those out and reamed the spindle so it would seat on the ball joint boot. We measured the spindle to fender lip, with a laser, prior to doing any work. It measured 11 1/4". after the work was done it measured 12 5/16. So I picked up just under an inch in ride height. I actually thought I would get a little more but I think this will help with the low clearance issues I was having. The springs have been in about two months and we just put almost 4000 miles on them so I am sure they are done setteling. I will probably go ahead and get the heavier leaf springs just to firm up the rear a bit. but that won't be for a bit.
Thanks for the input, Doug. Nice to have confirmation from one of the members that there can be two drop levels on the Granada spindles depending on how they are reamed. When you do go to the 6 leaf springs, it shouldn't change that front spindle-to-fender dimension, but will make a slight change (lower) in anything forward of that, such as the HD sway bar.....unless you use the lowering blocks as discussed.
Follow up on my spindle ream. My advise, Don't try and take shortcuts. We simply dropped the lower control arm, supported it on a pole jack so the spindle,brake assay could be lifted up and out to gain access to the lower ball joint mount. We then used a 1/2 inch drill to ream the lower hole to fit the ball joint stud. this is not nearly precision enough for this job and I noticed the studs were not exactly vertical. While I did get the lifting of the front end I was after, I noticed the steering wheel was off just a bit from where it was before and I feel there is a difference in how it join down the road. To correct my bad idea, I called Stop'em and Drop'em and ordered two new spindles properly reamed to fit the ball joints. My conclusion, If you are going to do this modification, strip the brakes off the spindle, completely remove the spindle and get it set up in a mill and bore them correctly[ All of which we could have done at no additional cost] Which makes the $400.00 learning experience just that much more painful.
For me the most valuable learning experiences have come from mistakes...including those of others. Thanks for that lesson!
Yep...thanks for passing that on...I would have thought the reamer would have followed the existing hole's path....really strange that it didn't. Along the same thought...I would have bet it would be really difficult to move a hole with a reamer if you wanted too. I guess the sheer bulk of that dia cutting tool made it rigid enough to do just that.
Hey Doug....Aside from wondering what was happening with you lately, I ran into something odd a few weeks ago. I needed a replacement outside drivers mirror, and found one at the Pace swap meet. It was by the same Fargo that made the ones we got at SoCal Speed shop. I wanted to check it out before taking it of course, and in doing so (fortunatly) noticed it was angled in the wrong direction....in towards the vent window instead of away. She assured me the box hadn't been opened previously, but we checked the right mirror she also had in an unopened box, and it was angled the way I needed. So, I guess we, or at least I, mounted the left on the right and right on the left!?.
This of course got me wondering if this had anything to do with the initial problems you were having trying to get them in a workable location.?
Hey Rich. I checked my bow tie mirrors and it looks both of the basses are about the same. if I remember they would only fit correctly on the proper side. But that was all done a long time ago and memory being what it is,,,,. really haven't been doing anything with the car except driving it. My spindle change ended up being a disaster. When I called Stop and drop and told them I needed the reemed spindles he said " no problem, we have them sitting right here on the shelf, ready to go and would include a spacer to go on under the castle nut so the cotter pin would work." So I sent my $400.00 postal money order, because they are apparently
still operating a business with 1800's technology,cause they can't take credit or debit cards, and waited for their arrival. When they came they were exactly what i had on the car in the first place, not reamed! So I am going to put them on Saturday when I find the screw up. I need the car on monday so I have to roust the guy with the mill out so we can mount the spindles and ream them to the proper size. Take them home and mount them on the car only to find they had even sent the wrong spacer that wouldn't come close to fitting the ball joint stud. fortunately I still had the home made spacers from my failed attempt to ream them before. Anyway they are on and they corrected my ride height and stetting issues so I guess it's all good!
Other than that screw up, it's been going well and am trying to get a bunch of overdue house projects done before it gets too hot.
Good to hear from you...thanks for the update. I wonder why the problems the spindles that no one has posted of before...at least that I'm aware of. Posible problem with the ball joint shaft not being the correct one? '58 vs '57 differences perhaps? Glad to hear you got it sorted out.
"Hey Rich. I checked my bow tie mirrors and it looks both of the basses are about the same. if I remember they would only fit correctly on the proper side"....agreed, they will only fit one way on our '57's. Only thing I don't know if that's the same way as the Chevy it was designed for. Only difference it would make is if someone is ordering ONE mirror for a specific side.
It's been 2 months since you were last active, Doug. Hope everything is ok with you.
Busy, busy summer. lots of car and bike road trips and the usual age related health issues. everything is kinda under control now. I think. Car is going to get put up for the winter as I am finally getting started on my motorcycle build. Never did get the running hotter than it should issue handled. I think when I get a break, I am going to strip down the front of the engine and work my way forward from there with new everything. I have never had a small block ford run anything but perfect, temp. wise so this is frustrating. spent a lot of years working around Cummins truck engines and at least twice I found water pump impellers that slipped and caused heating problems. very rare failure but it is possible so the pump has to be checked. also want to do a draw down test on the radiator just to make sure nothing got restricted during the three years the car was apart.
P.S. In the "keep the faith" dept. I took the car to a show this summer and had to enter the 54 thru 59 modified class. If that class isn't designed for the tri-five cars, I don't know what else they could do to help them out. Anyway the top two spots ended up going to 58 Fords. I've ever seen that happen before. The guy that took first had actually customized a 58 and it looked great, was more work and much better imagination than mine. Anyway I goes to show, we can beat them. my camera went dead so I didn't get any pictures
What are you running for a radiator? Curious, my car had a 302 AOD and the cooling was marginal. It had a 6 cyl radiator.
Glad to hear from you, Doug.
Quote from: lalessi1 on 2016-10-09 16:22
What are you running for a radiator? Curious, my car had a 302 AOD and the cooling was marginal. It had a 6 cyl radiator.
I am running an aluminum radiator that I bought by dimension. I wanted it to fit inside the core support to free up some engine bay length. The 5.0L/AOD that was in the car very rarely even ran the electric fan unless the A/C was on and that was for about eight years. This issue has just reared it's ugly head since I put the ,Speedway motors, rebuilt long block in, last winter. The radiator has never had anything in it but distilled water and aluminum compatible antifreeze. We put about 6500 miles on it this summer so its had plenty of break in and runs as good as any I have had. My Ford guy says there isn't any way to effect coolant flow with wrong gaskets or assembly procedures altho he said he has had small blocks that liked to run warm. It should be noted that he builds a lot of HP into everything he does. Mine is bone stock. I feel it just about has to be something from the block foreword. I'll get my ass in gear, one of these days and dig into it.
Look for a reverse rotation water pump. Did you change pumps on the new engine?
Quote from: Lgcustom on 2016-10-10 12:54
Look for a reverse rotation water pump. Did you change pumps on the new engine?
new pump bought for re-power was for an 89 mustang. However when I tear the front end apart both the water pump and thermostat will be new, again.
New Summit block...it's still a 5.0, right?
Rich....Ya, it was an exact replacement for the engine that was in the car.