Daily Driver Raunch Wagon

[KYBlueOval]

Thanks Gary!

[lalessi1]

Hey Gary how did the road test go? I have the same radiator and I moved it forward 2". I am using a single Derale electric puller fan/shroud and it works fine at slow speeds. My issue is my car will start to overheat on the interstate especially if I am behind an eighteen wheeler. Derale agreed that air flow is the issue so they suggested I cut openings in the shroud with rubber flaps over them. I cut the holes yesterday and put the flaps on they provided. Not a fan of the solution... I do like the dual fan setup you are using. I just finished my A/C install, not charged as of now.

[gasman826]

Run it over 100 miles yesterday with 95º tempertures...mostly state highways with couple of small towns.  The temp gauge run at 5/8 most of the time which translates to 175º.  In a small town with 5-6 stop lights, temp run up as high as 205º (low fan on temperature) and shut off in less than 30 seconds at 200º.  Both fans have not run other than testing mode.  This morning (only 86º),I made a parts run to another little town.  25 mile round trip and the fans never run.  I'm sure you know this but it is worth repeating.  My low fan does not kick on (205º) until the needle is just off the normal range on the gauge.  In 1957, 205º would have been an issue, today not so much.  I've confirmed actual engine temperature with thermometer in the coolant as well as with the Dakota Digital fan controller.

Two 12" fans with shroud (no flaps, openings, sealed tight to the radiator) equals a single, 24" fan with shroud (how big is your fan and what amp is your relay?) as far as square inches of shroud opening for free air flow.  I see no issue with you fan doing its job but with free flowing air at highway speed.  Your condenser slows the air flow and I don't have a condenser yet.  Your outside temps are higher than Michigan.  Your engine has more HP so it might need a smig more cooling.  The only physical difference in out two cars is that I formerly had another electric fan set up as a pusher.  A 20" pusher fan with shroud will NOT fit in front of a '57 radiator without customizing the gravel guard.  SPOILER ALERT!!!  Purists should STOP reading.  I cut a chunk out of the gravel guard and I have not replaced it with my spare gravel guard (and probably won't).  Could there be more free air flow at highway speeds...maybe.

[lalessi1]

Thanks for the response! My fan is 17", 2400 CFM. It is a two speed but I am only using it at max speed. I have a mechanical 2 5/8 SW gauge, the fan kicks in at 140 degrees, drawing 23.5 amps. I have always compared fans by area not by diameter?? (2) 12's would be the same as a 17" would they not?? Are your fans reversible? I bought mine because of the depth...3". Yours looks like a good fit. My condenser was not on the car when I noticed the issue. Gravel guard holes... maybe a plan...

[gasman826]

I gathered from your PP that your fan is doing the job when it runs but on at 140º means it runs all the time.  Cooling Components does not rate by CFMs or will they even talk about CFMs.  I was quite frustrated with no way to compare performance with other fan manufacturers.  Cooling Components said their systems would cool or money back OR they would build one that would.  Big talk but that's what they said.  As we all know:  power costs money, power takes fuel, so fan output can be measured by the power consumed.  Minimum relay is 70 amp with minimum 40 amp breaker per fan.  These fans are fairly quiet but are really moving air.

Yes, two 12" fans have about the same area as a 17" fan...226+ sq in.  Just a thought, if your fan is running all the time, is it acting as a brake.  A torque converter spins so fast and a liquid becomes a solid.  The fan spins so fast and will NOT allow more air through it than it can pull.  Sorry half baked with no science to back it up...before you cut up your gravel guard, adjust the fan control on to 200º.  With 16# cap and coolant, you're good to 220+.  If it doesn't work, kick the fan on and stay away from them trucks!

Do I remember correct that you have a HP water pump.  I don't remember the thermostat open point.

[lalessi1]

I have given this a lot of thought over a few beers... It seems to me the fan will spin under no power as it is moves through air. It potentially can generate voltage as a result, at any rate the power required to spin it will be reduced (I think). I did a couple of simple calcs... At 60 MPH about 14,800 cubic feet of air will pass through a rectangle 22.5" x 18" each minute. This assumes no pressure changes which is absolutely not the case with air passing through a radiator but it is an interesting observation. My fan pulls 2400 CFM though the same rectangle which corresponds to a speed of only about 10 MPH, in other words 2400 CFM will pass through the same rectangle at 10 MPH with no fan at all! You may be correct that the fan should be set at close to the thermostat temperature as it may not be required as often as I thought. I don't think the fan blocks the flow of air because air is compressible but the shroud is definitely restrictive. I have had some overheating issues and if I could I would run the engine at 160 degrees but I don't think that is very achievable

I really appreciate the conversation, I would have bought the same set up you are using had I known about it and in fact I may still do it.

[Ford Blue blood]

Cooling Components has this "hot" rod stuff figured out.  They have little flaps to let "driving air" flow freely, when stopped or moving really slow their natural rest position and the pull of the fan keeps them closed so all the air the fan moves goes through the radiator.  I feel, and run, my fan setting 10 above the t-stat.  Keeps a load off the alternator and works very well to control engine temperature.  The fan should always be controlled with a relay.

Fans should also be controlled with a "trinary" switch on the A/C line.  No need to run the fan when going down the road with the A/C on.  The trinary switch turns on the fan if the head pressure starts to rise.

Yup, their stuff is pricey but it is well worth the expense, they also have a very good staff to assist with any issues.

[gasman826]

Winter:  so back to working on the Raunch Wagon.  A few months ago, there was some discussion under General Discussion about bearing type idler arms.  The bearing replacement kit is available and I just finished installing it.  When I installed the '64 Galaxie power steering linkage, valve, steering box, and column, the idler arm got a new, rubber bushing kit.  The rubber was too hard and continue to 'push' after turns were completed (right or left).  The new bearing kit has nearly no resistance and definitely no memory.

[gasman826]

more PICs

[gasman826]

The Raunch Wagon is getting prepped for spring and Power Tour.  With A/C on the to-do list, the interior is gutted for sealing and insulation.  Since insulation is expensive and lots of work, new floor pans are going in.  Being tired of dust, dirt and rust, I worked on the Vintage Air cable converters for the HVAC controls.  The controls are now by wire.

[KYBlueOval]

Very Nice !

[fdlrc]

I see you swapped out the vacuum brake booster for Hydraulic. Was vacuum ineffective? I'm wondering if I would have room for my clutch master cylinder? 

[gasman826]

Yes to all questions.  I swapped a cheap, dual diaphragm booster for a hydraulic booster.  The performance of the cheap booster was fine for day to day normal driving but under high speed braking it would run out of boost.  So when I upgraded to rear disc, I swapped to the hydraulic booster.  I also cammed up the engine and had little or no idle vacuum.  The '57 Custom is also hydraulic boosted and has hydraulic clutch.

PIC is the Custom.  The OEM master worked fine but has been changed to Wilwood for cosmetic reasons.

[fdlrc]

Thanks for the information. I don't have any experience with hydro-boost systems. I'll look around, any advice as to what to look for other than flange size?

[RICH MUISE]

Les, I think one of Gary's cars has a 70's(?) Lincoln hydroboost, but most guys are using a late model Mustang setup. Mine is off an '02 Mustang Cobra. I've been told anything older than an '01 Mustang has an internal bore that is too small on the master. Most Mustangs don't have the hydroboost, only the GTs and Cobras. Pretty straightforward on the mounting. If I remember 2 of the '57 master cylinder mounting studs are cut off the firewall, the center hole enlarged, or elongated, and the remaining 2 mounting holes are drilled and bolted. I cut and welded on a an adjustable connecting rod to hook it up to the oem 57 brake pedal, but in hindsight I would have changed the mounting position on the brake pedal as Canadian Ranchero did. Not sure what Gary/Gasman did there.