engine/transmission for my 57 Del Rio project? Y bock or 351, AOD or C4 ?

[djfordmanjack]

thx for the input, Lynn ! I love mechanical fuel injection, like the early Mercedes had, but I do not want any electronics in my cars. I don't understand electronics, I cannot repair that. so EFI is not an option for me. although I have friends that have those modern throttle body injections on old engines (Nailhead) and they love it.

it seems the 351W has a lot of fans out there !? And it truely is a nice engine ! even a '69, very early. which I like !

Your milage figure sounds very reasonable, Jim. Of course you have manual w/ OD and the Ranchero is probably a little lighter than the wagon.
The best I could get out of the 351 with the C6 and 3.25 rear was about 15mpg, at a very steady 65mph, not a single kickdown for that.
The 292/Fordo/3.56 I cannot get much more than 12mpg at 65mph Highway cruising.

To give you guys a figure, gas is approx $5.50/gal at the moment, but usually in summer and at highway station it goes up to $8/gal. So this, and 1000 miles through Italy with their very expensive road toll....and you quickly lose interest in driving old cars.
If I were able to get the 17mpg that Jim stated, that I would be comfortable with. thats about what my 34 with the 302/C4/2.48 rear makes.

[Ecode70D]

Mine is a T85 3 spd with OD. So in OD it would be about 2.56
I don't know what gears they use in cars with AOD, I'm just not up to speed on the modern stuff.
Find out what gears Rich has in his, that should be a good base line.

   X2 What Jim stated about the the BW T85 with overdrive.  I remember when he was patiently waiting for that particular transmission.  They are great transmissions, but very hard to find these days.

[hiball3985]

I think I could do a little better on fuel but we have a different blend of gas here in the state of fruits and nuts. I tune everything on the conservative side, 34 degrees max total mechanical advance and the carb jetting on the fat side  . The wackos would love to kill all the old cars and makes us all have electrics, thats there goal for 2035..

[djfordmanjack]

I can second that, Jim. Both cars that I imported from the US and drove there in person, were running great on the domestic fuel, but I had to retune them to our local gas over here, which, at that point, still had zero ethanol in it. The Del Rio and the 351 (that I am talking about in this thread) were running great in Cali, but once over here was loping around like a Diesel truck. I think I had to tighten the idle screws about 3/4 to 1 full turn to get it properly running on this fuel. After that it was running fine without hickups, so it was definitely the different gas. Pretty similar with the 302 in the 34 but it needed less adjustment. when they went to a minimum of 5% ethanol over here, the 34 started having problems after winter storage, and it was only the quickly deteriorating gas. it ran fine again with a fresh tank fill. So at this point I am parking my cars as low as possible on fuel over winter. the 34 has a ss tank, so no concerns. the tank in the 57 CS is still absolutely clean and bare metal inside, so I am not worried either for now.

I think I could do a little better on fuel but we have a different blend of gas here in the state of fruits and nuts. I tune everything on the conservative side, 34 degrees max total mechanical advance and the carb jetting on the fat side  .

[hiball3985]

I think one of the many problems with ethanol is it's ability to absorb water. I don't worry about it were I live, my cars are driven year round and it's a fairly dry climate ( read miserable at times ) but from what others I've talked to that live in the cold/wet they have been storing with full tanks so there is no room for moisture to accumulate and a stabilizer additive. I can't really say if that's correct or not?

[Ecode70D]

Günter
      Actually in the long run , this will be your decision.
      I have been giving this some thought for a while. Since you already know the 351 and drove it over here , I would be inclined to put that same engine back into the car with an overdrive automatic transmission because you have everything that you need.  Gary stated that all of your transmissions will fit. Then you will not have to worry about engine mounts, exhaust system parts and a whole bunch of other stuff that you will have to make or find.  All of these tale precious time and you know that we don't have that.
       You still have a massive amount of body work to do, especially the unforgiving roof.  All of those things, you are perfectly able to do yourself.  Don't forget that there is nothing you can do until the frame gets straightened, stretched and aligned. 
         After the frame is repaired, I would start installing all of the suspension and make it into a rolling chassis again.  That would make things a lot easier because you can just push it in and out of the shop when you have time between jobs.
         In the long run, I know that you will make the right decision. 
Jay
         

[djfordmanjack]

Jay, you are spot on with your thoughts. yes I have the full SBF exhaust system and it is still in good shape.
I was thinking, that when I have the rolling chassis ready, I would try mocking up both the 351/AOD and the Y block/adapter/AOD. I have a spare SBF and spare Y empty blocks, so I dont have to lift all those heavy engines in and out. reasoning, I might be able to come up with ONE transmission crossmember that fits both drivetrains, only the engines would be shoved back and forth a little because of the thick adapter plate (approx 1-1/2") that may be achieved with reversing the motor mounts or just slightly opening up the elongated holes in either or both the motor mounts and frame brackets. That way I could possibly swap the engines, without having to remove or alter the transmission location, crossmember and driveshaft. Of course I need to check firewall and oilpan clearance, but I recall Blair telling me that he had already setback the 351 a little and it was still clearing the firewall. The SBF oilpan to 57 crossmember was a touch and go already, since the motor mounts had sagged. so I would need to shim them up 1/4" or so (even with new mounts. no big deal).

You are absolutely correct on repairing the chassis first. I would then set up the body for a trial fit and replacing body mounts and floorboards. that would be a good time to check for firewall clearance. the body will have to come off again anyways.

[gasman826]

The Windsor oil pan to crossmember clearance will dictate engine setback long before the head to firewall clearance.  I used a Milodon 'T' pan to get max setback while keeping the engine low.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mil-30926

[djfordmanjack]

great info, Gary, thx !
you can see where the factory 351W oilpan was aleady rubbing the crossmember.

[KULTULZ]

I think one of the many problems with ethanol is it's ability to absorb water. I don't worry about it were I live, my cars are driven year round and it's a fairly dry climate ( read miserable at times ) but from what others I've talked to that live in the cold/wet they have been storing with full tanks so there is no room for moisture to accumulate and a stabilizer additive. I can't really say if that's correct or not?

I'm sorry for HI-JACKING this thread -

You are correct. Ethanol fuel is meant for newer cars with EVAP SYSTEMS whereas the fuel is not exposed to the atmosphere directly drawing moisture. But even with storing the car with a full tank, it will still draw moisture through the filler pipe and vent. Plus ethanol fuel breaks down fairly rapidly. If long use it needs a fuel stabilizer added.

It is hard on alum parts (carb) if allowed to sit and cleans the fuel system of any built-up crud (varnish) which is then introduced into the carb. It also eats cellulose (paper) filtering materials and plugs the carb.

[gasman826]

Ethanol is 5% water.  Poorer quality ethanol can have more than 5%.  Poorer quality ethanol separates quicker and easier.  All my E85 systems are comprised of stainless, PFT(Teflon), anodized or powder coated components which is not a bad idea for any fuel system.  The fuel filters are stainless steel mesh which are serviceable.  Paper fuel filters break down from the water in separated ethanol.  The mushy paper passes through the filter and plug up the injectors.

[Fairlane62]

Guten Tag.
Although I love a y-block, I would also go with the 351W and either the AOD or C4, since it is a known running engine and will have adequate torque to pull the overdrive.  The AOD has about the same parasitic loss as the C6.  The C4 has less parasitic loss but you would not have the overdrive.
I had a 351W with C4 in my 58 and it did fine.  I am now putting in a 408 Cleveland and struggled with whether to go with AOD or C4 and finally opted for the C4 with 3.00 gears since it will have enough torque to pull the taller gears.  Plus I also run a C4 in my 54 Gasser and have several C4 cores that I can build.
In your case you have a running 351W and AOD so that would be the most cost effective route.  Just be sure to get the throttle valve adjustment done properly before road testing.  The AOD might also require a change in governor if you go lower gears like 4.11.

James

[RICH MUISE]

Well, since we've already pirated this thread...........I'm using a Ford fuel filter for 1995 Lincoln MarkVIII. I used it just to keep consistency with the drivetrain components as much as possible. So now you guys got me wondering what is actually inside that metal canister. Anybody know? Hope it's not paper. I'd have to check the brand, not sure if the last replacement was Motorcraft, which I would have chosen if available.

[djfordmanjack]

interesting point in the paper element fuel filters. I also like to replace all fuel lines with stainless tubing. Our fuel in Austria only has 5% Ethanol, but as mentioned I now leave my cars low on fuel during winter storage.The VW I don't drive enough to even use a gas of tank in a year, so I used stabilizer, which works very well.

James thank you for your further insights on the C4s. I really like those transmissions a lot. They work great for me in everyday driving situation. it would probably be pretty ok in the 57DR with the 351, 3.25 rear and tall rear tires. it might be lighter and a little shorter than the AOD.
There is even another possible combo. I could even use the C4 with the adapter behind the Y block.

[hiball3985]

Well, since we've already pirated this thread...........I'm using a Ford fuel filter for 1995 Lincoln MarkVIII. I used it just to keep consistency with the drivetrain components as much as possible. So now you guys got me wondering what is actually inside that metal canister. Anybody know? Hope it's not paper. I'd have to check the brand, not sure if the last replacement was Motorcraft, which I would have chosen if available.

It's time to change the filter and cut the old one open I have no knowledge of newer cars but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't some kind of synthetic materiel.