4 wheel discs on a Ranchero, how sweet it is. No plumbing completed yet, so no driving results, but I can't wait to drive this thing. I have completed the Explorer rear disc swap, now on to the fronts. I opted for the mid 70's T-Bird swap, and smooth sailing all the way, for the most part. One bump in the road but that's beacuse I'm a dummy, no need to get into that. One thing for those of you considering this swap, I did my research here on this swap, and everything I found said I needed to grind the ball joint mount pad down in order for the tie rod to bolt down correctly and get a cotter pin in there. That is not necessary. I bought a set of 77 T-Bird tie rod ends and they threaded into the the factory steering perfectly, and are virtually identical to my original 57 tie rods, the only difference being, the stud is longer to accomodate the thicker ball joint mount pad. And at $9 bucks each its makes sense to me. I did not change the upper or lower ball joints, and they are original as they are still riveted, and the spindles dropped on prefectly, tightened down no issues at all. From what I understand these are a no drop spindle so the ride height should be the same as before I started, but I won't know for certain until I put the wheels back on and put it on the ground. I still need to run the hard line and hang the master cylinder and proportioning valve though so I'm a bit away from that but shouldn't be more than a week or so. I am waiting on hard line to be delivered, once I have that, I will keep everyone posted on progress. I also am looking forward to reporting on the hardline itself. I read alot of positive and negative about stainless, then I stumbled onto guys running the copper nickle line, no rust like stainless but easy to work like mild steel. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on this stuff and seeing how it goes. I will let everyone know.
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Looking good! I'm interested in hearing how the copper lines work out, I'm thinking of using it in the future. I don't know what wheels you plan on using but I found that with the Granada discs on mine the stock Ford wheel won't fit, the center hole is to small so I have to find a later model wheel for my spare.
I love that nicopp brake line. My first ever hardlines came out great..at least as far as the flaring. My bending techniques need a little more experience. I talked about it on another thread..this section..."front brake lines". note in particular the last post I did.
keep us posted on your experience!
Rich
Yeah I'm looking forward to working with it. I've done regular steel lines before and while serviceable, certainly nothing to write home about. And after all the horror stories I read about the stainless, this seems like an excellent alternative. And when it's all said and done, there really wont be that much anyways. I have stainless braided hoses for frame to wheel on both sides in the front, and from wheel to wheel both sides in the rear. I am opting to not use any hard line on the rear end at all. I bought a tee block and a pair of 30" long premade -3an lines from Summit and matching fittings to thread into the calipers. The only hard line left is from master to proportioning valve and from proportioning valve to each front wheel and down the frame to the rear end. And I have another premade 30" stainless braided hose to go from frame to the tee block. Should work out quite well when it's all said and done and with a few joints as possible, I'm not a fan of a leaky brake system. I'll keep you guys posted with stories and pics as I go.
You'll be running 15 inch wheels, I don't think 14's would fit over the caliper.
I just got through a disc swap to, but used Mustang/Torino spindles. I had to ream the lower balljoint and also the tie rod ends. I do notice a difference in braking on long steep grades, not as much brake fade.
Looks good.
Randy
It'll ultimately end up with some kind of 16" wheel on there, not exactly sure what just yet. In the meantime I have some scrap 15's off a mid 90's Town Car for rollers at the moment. I'd like some 17" Bullitt wheels on there but the owner of the car is saying no, so not my choice. I've been looking at the 05 up Mustang V6 wheel, they are almost an Eleanor wheel with the fake knock off and all that. It'll need paint before I really worry about wheels though. I'm just tickled at the 4 wheel discs for now, I hope this system I'm putting together all works well.
I am by no means what anyone would even remotely call an expert at making brake line. But I'll tell you what guys, this copper nickle brake is hands down the best stuff I've ever put my hands on. Cheapo flare tool and tube cutters from Harbor Freight and making absolutely perfect flares, I did practice a couple of times but still, the results are hard to argue with. I only have from the master to the prop valve and to the drivers side wheel so far, but so far so good. And if this brake line lives even half as long as stainless, I wouldn't even dream of ever using anything else. Tomorrow I tackle the passenger side front and the line to the rear end. For those interested in details, thats a mid 70's manual Granada master and the prop valve is from Summit, $100 bucks and some change for the valve but its adjustable and comes with the brake light swith and all that, seemed like a good deal and a simple solution to solve all the issues in 1 piece and I am a big fan of simple solutions.
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That's the second good report I've heard on the copper lines. I need to redo mine, I don't like the way the PO did them, he actually had some brake shop do it for him. I'm a bit confused how they did it, It has Granada discs and manual Granada MC, but NO proportioning valve. The brakes work perfectly.
Nice detailed photos. Thanks for posting them, and the info on the Summit valve. Glad to hear your experience with the Nicopp lines. I sure liked the stuff, but I had no previous experience with anything else to compare it to. I especially liked the fact I didn't have to buy a 150. flaring tool to make it work. I want to spend the bucks on the parts, not the maybe-one-time-use-for-me tool to install them.
One question...You don't think the front facing brake line is going to put excess stress on the flex line as mounted in the oem location? Somebody in the past recommended to me that I move the mounts to in front of the control arms to minimize the flex line movement. I did move mine to the front, but it is going to make routing the drivers side hard line a pain in the butt to route around the control arm to keep it away from all the moving parts, and away from exhaust manifold heat.
In another life a long time ago I worked in 2 mechanic shops, once was half a race shop/regular old time corner shop, the other was a used car lot that the owner liked to buy cars for the lot from the local junk car auctions to stock the lot. And they were both in Upstate Central NY, just east of Syracuse. So in fixing customer cars/prepping cars for sale on the lot, I did alot of rust repairs, i.e. exhaust, gas tanks, brake lines. I've made my share of mild steel brake lines and fuel lines to say the least, and as I said before, while serviceable, they were certainly nothing to write home to mom about. After basically just fooling around with this copper line a little bit last nite and cranking out 3 lines, which I consider to be very very good as far as quality of the flare as well as being able to bend them into something that doesnt look like trash. And the 2 tube benders I bought I haven't even really used, the bends you see in the pics are 95% done with just my fingers. A couple times I felt the bend was collapsing on itself, I just stuck the tube in the vice and with very light pressure I got them back to round, very very simple to work with. Given my experiences thus far, I wouldn't even consider using mild steel, and with my experience compared to the horrors I heard of with stainless, no way would I go that route.
Rich, I'm not really sure what you mean by front facing brake line. I have a fitting in the caliper that points straight up, it's a male 7/16-24 into the caliper and male -3an on the other side. The flex line is a 90* -3an that threads onto the caliper, 18" length and a female -3an up to the frame mount. In the frame mount is a male -3an pointing down and a female 3/8-24 for the hard line fitting to thread into. I had originally bought straight fittings on both ends of the flex line and a 16" length. I ran into issue with that, so I exchanged them for 90* -3an 18" straight -3an. Now I have everything installed and tightened down, I could have probably gotten away with the 16" length though I'd keep the 90* and straight ends. I have ran the wheel lock to lock and there is nowhere I can see where it could bind or hang on anything, or stress the junctions in any way. Up down left or right I'm just not seeing anything. The only thing I might do is find some kind of spring or something to pull tension on the flex line to keep it tight to the frame rail in the middle to prevent rubbing on the tire. I'll toss the wheel on after the rest of the lines are done and see if that's necessary, but right now that's the only issue I could forsee. I remember reading about everyone saying to mount the flex lines in front of the control arm, now I have the one wheel done, I sit back and look at it, I can't see a reason for it. And with the caliper on the back side of the rotor, crossing to the front of the control arm doesn't make any sense to me when I picture it in my head. If the caliper was on the front side of the rotor, maybe, but with mine on the backside of the rotor, I'm just not seeing it.
Rich, now I get what you were saying with front facing brake line. The fitting in the caliper does point slightly towards the front. But with a 90* fitting and pointing that back toward the back end of the car it gets the flex line heading in the right direction to reuse the factory frame mount. I'll get some better pics of the caliper and that fitting arrangement and post them up for you guys.
Here's a couple of pics of the fittings in the calipers
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Thanks for taking the time to post the caliper pics.....definetly different than the Granada type that have the fluid inlet on the front (facing forward) unlike yours at the top. It's been crazy here the last week or so, but when things get back to normal I'll post a pic of the granada configuration just for comparison. Nice job on the lines, btw!
Look at them again, Rich. They are Granada style calipers and horns.
Finished out the brake lines tonite. And for whatever my opinion is worth, you couldn't pay me enough to ever fool with anything but this copper nickel line ever again that's for sure. I thought making the short lines was easy, the longer lines across the cross member and back to the rear end was even easier. When I made the line to the rear end I did the flare on the bench for the end at the propotioning valve and left the other end open. I had planned on pulling the line back out once I got the length right and doing the flare then. But as it was kind of a pain to route the line down the frame and around I left it in the car. I used a c clamp and clamped my flare tool to the leaf spring and made the flare under the car like that, and it still came out perfect. Hands down far and away satisfied with this brake line, and I highly recommend it to anyone who is in need of making brake lines. Here's some more pics for your viewing pleasure.
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Wel maybe you guys can help clarify something for me. At this stage of things it's more for piece of mind than anything else. I got the whole system plumbed and so on. I went to fill the system and bleed it out, ran into a couple of leaky fittings that I had to sort out and then I moved on to bleeding the system. That's where I hit the wall......hard. I couldn't get good pedal pressure to save my life, no matter what I did. I know I had issue as I didn't bench bleed the master, so I pulled the lines back off and did that. Then I did a 4 wheel gravity bleed, everything looked ok there. Then I had a helper and did the bleeding that way. I would get all the air out of the line and move on until I got all the way to the front. The pedal would pump up and firm up no problem, as soon as I stopped pumping and hit it again, it went straight to the floor. It wouldn't lose pedal once i had it pumped up, it stayed hard, but as soon as I let go and hit the pedal again, straight to the floor.
I bashed my head on the fenders for a week and a half trying to figure out was going on. I could almost taste brake fluid in my mouth I had absorbed so much through my hands. Then this past weekend a friend of mine who I grew up working on cars with ame to visit for the Nascar race, and him and I got into it a little bit. This was around 4 am Friday and needless to say we were rather inebriated, he looked under the car for 35 seconds and said your rear calipers are upside down, bleeders below the line and it'll never bleed. So we swapped calipers side to side and 20 minutes later system is bled and feels fine. No driving yet but still, feels like good pedal to me.
My question is this, in looking at the pics, I can see what he meant on the rear, bleeders under the line. But I look at the front, and the bleeder is under the line as well, yet they seem to be fine. I can vouch without question that the front calipers cannot be swapped side to side up there. I know that because I had them swapped side to side originally and the brake line fitting was acting as a steering stop hitting the lower control arms. Something different on the front or the angles that I'm missing that allows the front to work that way???
I think it's just an optical illusion. Looking at your picture I would say the bleeder is at least as high or higher then the line entrance. A small level should confirm that.
I see what your saying there. It could be that, looks that way in fact. It was a long weekend, so I haven't been back down there, just something I was sitting here thinking about is all. Thanks.
If the piston was removed, you could see that the inlet hole (hose side) into the piston cavity is lower than the bled screw opening.
The bleeder screw MUST be at the top of the system (caliper or cylinder) on each wheel otherwise you'll never get all the air out of the system.
Thanks for all the pictures. I noticed the lack of shields. Several times, I've considered pitching them but have always installed them for the extra cooling. I also noticed the lack of brake lube. It is critical to add brake lube to the slide points.
No shields simply because they were rotted out and I can't find any more to replace them. And yeah everything will get a healthy dose of never seize before I finalize it, I just wanted to get everything together and working. No problem on the pics, they speak a thousand words and most threads are useless without pics lol.
Brand new repop sheilds...........
http://www.discbrakeswap.com/
Dang $124 bucks...I paid less than that for the spindles!! But if ya gotta have em, not much choice I guess.
That sounds outrageous, Id be hunting junk yards
dust/splash sheilds are $69 for pair and install hardware. Still pricey when compared to used price...then again much cheaper than NOS.
I have a new pair for a granada, never installed. $50 + ship Mark
Have you had the car on the ground with the suspenion loaded? You may have a camber issue as I did with the Tbird units unless your after a low rider look.
The car has not hit the ground yet, still going through some other systems yet. In my research I did see mention of camber issues, then I saw no issues, so no telling yet. Hopefully no issues, but we shall see I guess.
I got an email from someone looking for some part numbers, so I went through and assembled a parts list with numbers for the entire system should someone want to duplicate what I did or use some of it. Either way here you guys go, enjoy.
All parts in stock and available from Summit. NiCopp brake line I got off eBay (cheaper and comes with all the flare nuts) and master cylinder from Rockauto.
front brakes
-3an 90* female to -3an straight female
18" - EAR-63011718ERL x2
caliper fitting - RUS-641311x2
frame fitting - RUS-641291 x 3 1 fitting to be used where the hard line ends before the rear end
rear brakes
hoses - 30" female thread straight fitting - EAR-63010130ERL x 3
caliper fittings - RUS-643961 x5 3 fittings to be used in the tee block
tee - EAR-972050ERL x1
prop valve - SUM-G3910 x1
25' 3/16 copper nickel line
3/8-24 flare nuts x 9
7/16 -24 flare nut x1
Granada master - Rockauto Cardone Select - 131602