I ordered upper and lower ball joints from a local parts store as they said they could get Moog. Well, the uppers came in and the parts store was told that Moog no long had the lowers available. So, based on your experience, where should I buy U.S. made ball joints?
Thanks
John
so were the uppers made in the USA or not?
Zap- :unitedstates:
A couple weeks ago I bought a Moog lower ball joint for a '65-'74 Ford, did some grinding on the flange of the ball joint so it would fit the lower '57 A arm, slotted the two mounting bolt holes to match the holes in the A arm and bolted it in. The tapered stud fits just fine. John
Quote from: Zapato on 2015-07-27 19:40
so were the uppers made in the USA or not?
Zap- :unitedstates:
I have not held the uppers in my hands, but I was told they were Moog and U.S.A. made.
Quote from: Hoosier Hurricane on 2015-07-28 05:55
A couple weeks ago I bought a Moog lower ball joint for a '65-'74 Ford, did some grinding on the flange of the ball joint so it would fit the lower '57 A arm, slotted the two mounting bolt holes to match the holes in the A arm and bolted it in. The tapered stud fits just fine. John
Thank you.
I knew there had to be a solution.
John
I had saved this picture for reference from a post somewhere. These are suppose to be top quality, but expensive if I recall.
Rare Parts is in our list of supplier links. I got my expensive upper control arm shafts from them.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2015-07-30 07:42
Rare Parts is in our list of supplier links. I got my expensive upper control arm shafts from them.
Rich, I looked up this vendor and they are expensive. One lower ball joint is $147.00. Ouch! I will not buy cheaply made parts, but on the other hand, what makes their ball joint worth that kind of money? If you or anyone else on this forum knows, please tell me. As I've stated before, I only want to do it once and do it right. If this $147.00 ball joint is the right way to go, I'll buy them, but my gut tells me these are somewhat overpriced. What does the Forum say?
First, Yes they are a vendor, but the key here is they are also the manufacturer. The short answer...An American made product using premium materials on a comparativly low demand item is going to command a premium price out of neccesity.
Now the long answer...you may be sorry you asked, lol....
I installed ball joints from Concourse...purchased maybe 5 or 6 years ago, and the boots are already splitting. I guess 5 years of road use would be acceptable, but mine, although installed, I don't consider as used since the car is just sitting. Not sure if that example is a reason to buy an expensive ball joint or a reason not to....because of my experience, my main question with the Rare Parts balljoints would be where do they get their boots from?
Having spent 20+ years in machine shop/manufacturing, including 4 years estimating, I tend to look at things like this in a different light than most. I also spent another 20 years in the retail business, dealing with retail markups.
First, let me say I have read very little feedback on this company, but what I have seen was positive. I bought their upper control arm shafts (no one else was making them at the time)...a much simpler part than a ball joint...for 180. each!
Comparing the upper control arm shaft to a ball joint assembly, one would wonder how they can make the ball joint and sell it cheaper than the shaft..... answer:markup/profit vs. demand/inventory rollover. They undoubtably sell many more ball joints than shafts, so any tooling/setup costs can be amortised over many more parts.
One example that stuck in my head from a business course I took years ago was the markup range a typical grocery store worked with. That range was from below 5% markup to over 200% markup!! Yet, the 5% markups were generally their big money making items. How/why is that? answer: rollover. Items like bread, milk, eggs generaly were marked up in the 5% range, but they were rolled over every few days, or 100+ times a year. compare that to an item that might roll over once a month, or once every 6 months. Those obviously need to have a higher markup just to cover their inventory expenses, and result in an annual almost non-existant profit because of their low turnover.
This tends to piss alot of people off, but it is generaly accepted in the retail trade that a product with a keystone markup(100%) has to be rolled over 3 to 4 times annually to be profitable.
cont....
From a manufacturing viewpoint, as I mentioned, I would have to wonder how they could make a assembly/part like a ball joint and sell it as low as they do. I'm not sure whether the shafts are made from a (assumed) high quality bar stock, or a forging (my guess), but you have machining, heat treating, precision grinding. The cases would be stamped, and some type of industrial finish, assembly, etc. Add assembly, hardware, etc. Consider the fact that a company like rare parts is competing with off shore mfg., severly reducing the potential sales quantities, and you have to wonder how many balljoints are they going to sell in a year. Add in the costs of inventoring those parts runs for ?? months, years. Yes, from our viewpoint, it seems like there are alot of 57-58 Fords around, but how many are there compared to, let's say, a 2000 ish F150 pickup. And how many of those '57's are in a restoration process or in need of ball joints?
Like I said, you're probably sorry you asked, but I for one am glad there are some US companies still around actually making stuff.....after all that rambling, I hope they are actually making a good ball joint, lol.
From what I had researched at one time, and I don't believe everything I read on the Internet, is RareParts bought the Moog tooling. And now Moog parts are mostly made off shore.
When I did my front suspension I had Moog parts sitting on the shelf that I bought back in the early 80's but that 57 project got abandoned. When I used them on my current Ranchero two years ago the rubber boots were as good as the day I bought them..
Go to amazon.com automotive, type in 10112 ball joint, about $95.00.
Strange they sell a lower ball joint and the upper shaft together as a kit on Amazon? Why wouldn't that be an upper ball joint and shaft?
Outlaw ......... Thanks I found it.
hiball ........... looked for the kit you spoke about but didn't find it. Any chance you could locate it again and post a part number.
Thanks to both of you!
John
Quote from: KYBlueOval on 2015-08-01 05:17
Outlaw ......... Thanks I found it.
hiball ........... looked for the kit you spoke about but didn't find it. Any chance you could locate it again and post a part number.
Thanks to both of you!
John
I was on the same page down lower on the Amazon listing, it shows the 58 type that has the threaded bushings.
I spoke with the folks at Rare Parts yesterday and asked a few questions about their lower ball joints. Specifically about where the are manufactured. The parts are NOT made in the U.S.A.. They are ASSEMBLED and inspected in the U.S.A.. Thought y'all would want to know.
John
Quote from: Hoosier Hurricane on 2015-07-28 05:55
A couple weeks ago I bought a Moog lower ball joint for a '65-'74 Ford, did some grinding on the flange of the ball joint so it would fit the lower '57 A arm, slotted the two mounting bolt holes to match the holes in the A arm and bolted it in. The tapered stud fits just fine. John
Hoosier Hurricane........do you have a part number for what you bought? Or maybe you could revisit the application you listed above? I gave the application info, to the parts store I use and what came in was a press in ball joint. Moog K8197
Thanks
John
John:
It is a Moog 8059. $65.99 at O'reilly.
John
Quote from: Hoosier Hurricane on 2015-08-06 06:13
John:
It is a Moog 8059. $65.99 at O'reilly.
John
Thank you John............I'll continue the hunt!!
have 2 new upers,25 us each plus frt. cliff ct1940@shaw.ca.i live i surrey canada ,but could ship out of blain wa(live near the border
The Moog 8059 ball joint is listed on EBay for $37.55 plus free shipping.
Found some more Moog 8059's on EBay, the lowest price is $24.99 with free shipping.