57fordsforever.com

Okay...have done a little bit of work on the '57 Fairlane. to begin with I power-washed it to try and get sme more color, but it really wasn't all that dirty after 10 years in a barn with Scott. Removing spark plugs was a bit of a challenge though. Have 5 out, not sure if the time frame of 10+ years since they were installed or the possibility that the last guy to install them was Johnny Atlas, but they were not interested in coming out. Couple of breaker bars (one a 2 footer) were employed.  Have 3 more to go, which hopefully once I finish power washing the house tomorrow will come out easier. (we are painting the deck Monday if anyone is looking for something to do!  :003: )
Here are some pics. I have a question about two of them. I have never seen tubes coming out of the valve covers. Have never seen a tube coming out between the cover and the head like these before. Info? Ideas?
Note the carb tag! The carb has been rebuilt and is sitting in a box waiting to go back into service. Here are some pics before the rebuild, new ones tomorrow night.
Also note the air conditioner canister. I am assuming this was the dryer? Supposed to have a vacuum line to it.

Carb pics...
Looks like headlight and running/turn signal light wires were hacked. No big deal they'll be easy to fix.
Also notice in the valve cover pis above...no signs really of leaks under valve covers. A good sign to be sure.
I have started thinking though...in order to properly clean and paint the engine compartment, the engine will need to come out....so as long as it is out...might as well rebuild it. So most likely that will happen. And as long as it is out...well...transmission should be at least opened up and inspected, maybe a small parts kit just to freshen things up.
Gonna need to replace floors in passenger and trunk compartments a well.
Last pic in this set...you can see I had no choice but to bring it home...the thing just followed me all the way back from Indiana! (You will note that the pic looks like I am in England...don't know why the cell phone cam took it this way...I was NOT in England!)

Well, aren't you glad that we pressured you into buying it?  :002:
Are the tubes possibly a homemade top end oiling patch?
That canister looks like a Chevrolet radiator overflow can.

James

Yea...I am. Even the wife didn't get upset.
Somehow...I seriously doubt that is a bow-tie part...this car appears to be all stock.
I was wondering if that was the same thing about the top end oiler from someone's backyard. I have not seen a lot of 292 engines,, but do not remember that. wonder how they kept it from leaking? Guess I'll fine out when I do the tear down.

I just posted an update on the earlier post with pics. The part you showed should be the dryer, if so, it should be fastened to the front right corner of the condenser. Let me know as I have a condenser and dryer out of a car in the garage right now.

Forgot to mention, I have the complete installation instructions. Unfortunately, I moved a year ago and haven't located them but I could copy them for you at some point. A friend of mine is planning on installing a system in his retractable next year so I will need to find them. We are under the impression that these were dealer installed, shipped with a new car in the trunk mandating that the dealer remove the right front fender and the dash to install them.

Quote from: mustang6984 on 2022-10-06 22:11Here are some pics. I have a question about two of them. I have never seen tubes coming out of the valve covers. Have never seen a tube coming out between the cover and the head like these before. Info? Ideas?

Are you sure that is not the fuel line?

QuoteAlso note the air conditioner canister. I am assuming this was the dryer? Supposed to have a vacuum line to it.

Quote from: KULTULZ on 2022-10-07 19:19Are you sure that is not the fuel line?

(https://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=81573;image)

RADIATOR OVERFLOW CONDENSER - CHEV _1.jpeg

RADIATOR OVERFLOW CONDENSER - CHEV _2.jpg

Thats why I thought it was a Chevy radiator overflow can.  They look similar.

QuoteThats why I thought it was a Chevy radiator overflow can.  They look similar.

You have a sharp eye ...

I am certain it is not the fuel line. There is one on each valve cover. I'll look at it tomorrow some more.

Quote from: Ray on 2022-10-07 16:57I just posted an update on the earlier post with pics. The part you showed should be the dryer, if so, it should be fastened to the front right corner of the condenser. Let me know as I have a condenser and dryer out of a car in the garage right now.

I think KULTULZ answered my question...it appears to be an over flow canister.

But YES...I could use any air conditioning parts you might have and be willing to part with. And directions would also be great...if can make copies and then e- them that would work.  Thanks

Quote from: mustang6984 on 2022-10-08 22:06I am certain it is not the fuel line. There is one on each valve cover. I'll look at it tomorrow some more.

If you could take some detailed pictures it would be appreciated. I might learn something here. Where do the tube(s) originate?

KUL...here are pics I took today. finally got the last of the plugs out today, oiled down the cylinders/pistons. The last guy to out those in REALLY wanted them to stay!
On the pics, you will see the lines come from the covers, (I took a pic if the driver's side valve cover one) and then go to a junction box, where a line comes out and goes to the housing block for the oil filter. Also notice...there is NO sign of leaks on the valve cover where this line comes out. I have not yet pulled the valve cover, since I want to try and fire the motor and did not want to have a leak, or spend money for an extra valve cover gasket set. Have pretty much decided to do a rebuild on the engine since I need to pull it anyhow in order to clean up the engine compartment and repaint it.
If you want better pics, I'll take my 35 out there and shoot some...these were shot with my phone. One guy I talked to told me that he had heard of this being done on the 292 engines due to oiling issues with the top end of the engine. The lack of leaks is what has me puzzled...how the hell...?

The owner prior to Scott felt the need to cut the wires for the headlight and marker light on the driver's side. No idea yet why.
The spark plugs are all this ugly...so I am guessing that there will be some smoke coming out the back end when I fire it up...after of course it burns off what was put in today. As state in previous post, will tear it down and do a rebuild this winter anyhow...so no big deal I suppose.
Everything under the hoods is showing age...lots of rust in places expected. No idea if the master cylinder is rebuildable or not yet. I "assume" there are still rebuild kits for them yes?

There is some good discussion on Ford Barn Hugh about the original masters.. under the 53 forum part discussion area.. and yes.... they can be rebuilt easily.
Nice save on this car.

Quote from: Jeff Norwell on 2022-10-17 09:29There is some good discussion on Ford Barn Hugh about the original masters.. under the 53 forum part discussion area.. and yes.... they can be rebuilt easily.
Nice save on this car.

Thanks I sure am happy with it as I dig deeper into it. found the Fairlane and "500" script in a box yesterday too. a little rough, but unbroken and looking fairly decent!
Thanks for the heads up on the master cylinder info as well. I will go there and read up on it. I rebuilt the master on my white Courier back in '71. But knowing how things have changed over the years wasn't sure the kits were still available.
Gonna go out today to town...and will also be looking to stop and buy the Hot Rod mag so I can read yuor piece! Congrats again!


/quote]

December issue...might not be at the news stands yet

Yea...didn't find one. I'll start looking in earnest end of this month then. Thanks. Wasn't aware it was December issue. Thanks.

Quote from: mustang6984 on 2022-10-16 23:33KUL...here are pics I took today.

On the pics, you will see the lines come from the covers, (I took a pic if the driver's side valve cover one) and then go to a junction box, where a line comes out and goes to the housing block for the oil filter. Also notice...there is NO sign of leaks on the valve cover where this line comes out. I have not yet pulled the valve cover, since I want to try and fire the motor and did not want to have a leak, or spend money for an extra valve cover gasket set. Have pretty much decided to do a rebuild on the engine since I need to pull it anyhow in order to clean up the engine compartment and repaint it.

If you want better pics, I'll take my 35 out there and shoot some...these were shot with my phone. One guy I talked to told me that he had heard of this being done on the 292 engines due to oiling issues with the top end of the engine. The lack of leaks is what has me puzzled...how the hell...?

I really appreciate those pics!

It is an unusual design. When you rebuild, please take detailed photos and post them on this thread if possible.

It appears to be a valve-train external oiling supply system as the FYB had an engineering flaw(s) in the original design. It (the design) failed and left the rocker arms not lubricated. The usual repair was the copper lines to the rocker arm retaining bolts if you have ever seen one.




There is another system that by-passes the original design completely -

Quote from: mustang6984 on 2022-10-17 15:44Yea...didn't find one. I'll start looking in earnest end of this month then. Thanks. Wasn't aware it was December issue. Thanks.

I found it (in all places) at my doctor's office waiting room.

Hopefully they will possibly cover the complete build at a future date/issue.

Both of your designs look much better than mine. But now, the question is, does the issue still exist with the 292, and if so...do I need to use one of the three to correct it from the beginning? If so, I favor the version with the valve cover being piped like your red ones.

Apparently your doc has a subscription...my doc is not a car guy.  :(

From little I know of Y block history it came down to the crap oils from the 50's and lack of maintenance. But that is all I know. New oils and actually changing the oil at short intervals should clear up oiling issues. Keep in mind that this what I think happened:)

Mike

Quote from: mustang6984 on 2022-10-18 09:46Both of your designs look much better than mine. But now, the question is, does the issue still exist with the 292, and if so...do I need to use one of the three to correct it from the beginning? If so, I favor the version with the valve cover being piped like your red ones.

Apparently your doc has a subscription...my doc is not a car guy.  :(

IF a Y-BLOCK is rebuilt correctly, it will not have the flaws that lead to need a system such as shown.

The problem(s) were mainly camshaft bearing failures and service intervals. There were detergent motor oils then but few used them.

I brought all of this up on a different thread but was poo-pooed by those saying there was no need for the modifications. I then dropped the conversation.

The system I showed was for HI-PO (lines though the lifter valley), not service.

I still want to see under those rocker covers though ...  :003:

QuoteNew oils and actually changing the oil at short intervals should clear up oiling issues.

Now don't forget, if you have an original engine all sludged up and you put today's detergent oils in it, that sludge may break loose and plug the pump screen.

Well...I am a fanatic about oil changes. I don't care what today's car manufacturers say...every 3-5 thousand miles...out with the old and in with the new. I also do not use synthetics. New filter and oil...and up until recently...stuck to straight old 30w. Now I can't find it anywhere any more, so 10-30 is what I use today. I have multiple cars well over 100k...with the '98 Explorer the champ at 317k on the original engine.
So if I am reading both 1930 deco & KULTULZ right...my oil changing habits coupled with today's oils should alleviate the issue of poor oiling up top.

As for sludge breaking loose..won't matter if it does I suppose. Even if it doesn't REALLY need it...probably gonna tear down the engine and give it a rebuild. Need to pull it out anyhow to paint the engine bay, so...freshen up the 'ol block and heads yes?

Thanks for the info guys. I was hoping that was where I was gonna get to go.
And KUL...you WILL get pics of the underside of the rockers. :003:

QuoteSo if I am reading both 1930 deco & KULTULZ right...my oil changing habits coupled with today's oils should alleviate the issue of poor oiling uptop.

No, the poor upper oiling (FYB) is due to poor design and part(s) failure. Once the parts fails (usually the cam bearing) there is no alternative other than replacing the cam bearing or adding the external oiler kit. You would then use modern oil in a proper rebuild.

Oil changes can be extended on modern engines as there is better fuel control and machining techniques are much different from the past, plus the quality of today's oil..

If you do add modern oil to an older engine, you need a pressure gauge and monitor it carefully. You really don't want to use an oil past classification SJ/SM rating on an older engine.

BTW - 10W-30 is the desired oil in an older engine (IMO).

Many engines didnt have oil filters prior to the fifties, so the high paraffin oils of the time allowed particles to settle to the bottom of the pan overnight where they were captured in the waxy sludge.  Dropping and cleaning the pan was a recommended maintenance item back then.  Modern detergent oils hold the particles in suspension so they can be removed by the oil filter.
The paraffin would also clog small passages in engines, especially if oil was not changed frequently.  The Y-Block had a "dog leg" in the passage from the #3 cam bearing to the rocker pedestal which would get clogged.  Other engines of the time that oiled through the push rods would get clogged in the lifters or push rod itself.
Modern oils alleviated these problems.  Modern engines like Ford modulars and Chevy LS with the variable cam timing wouldn't have even been practical with the old oils as the metering orifices would have clogged up quickly.

James

so...if I am reading you both correctly...my insanity about regular oil changes and using the modern 10-30 should give me a plethora of miles...with no issues...right?

Quote from: mustang6984 on 2022-10-19 21:47so...if I am reading you both correctly...my insanity about regular oil changes and using the modern 10-30 should give me a plethora of miles...with no issues...right?

In your case, only on a correctly machined/assembled rebuilt engine. If it has an oiling kit being used, most likely the rest of the engine is clogged.

As for PARAFFIN, read this - https://auto.howstuffworks.com/5-tips-for-preventing-motor-oil-deposits.htm

Then period motor oils were not the devil's juice. It was formulated for that time period.

The problem(s) came from poor service intervals, using wrong and/or cheap oil and poor crankcase ventilation. And then there was leaded gasoline. The FYB had major lubrication problems which are easily corrected during a rebuild.

QuoteWhile oil filters remove particulate over 25 microns, sludge, tar, varnish and wear metals less than 25 microns continue to circulate within the engine and accumulate in the passageways, oil pump and oil pan. These contaminates cause engine wear, higher operating temperatures, and reduced lubrication.

Simply pouring chemical flush additives into the crankcase is ineffective. Dissolved sludge, particulate and accumulated debris continue to circulate causing significant engine wear.

SOURCE - FORD ENGINE FLUSH MACHINE INSTRUCTION SHEET

Additives also describe modern high detergent/dispersant motor oils.

When I worked in the oil fields back in the early 70's I was told that the largest paraffin contaminated oil was of the Pennzoil/Quaker State ilk. Something about their fields made them heavier in the paraffin waxes.
I typically use Havoline/Valvoline. I am going to rebuild the engine. When it goes back into the car it will be as clean as the day it was built in '57.

Quote from: mustang6984 on 2022-10-20 20:41When I worked in the oil fields back in the early 70's I was told that the largest paraffin contaminated oil was of the Pennzoil/Quaker State ilk. Something about their fields made them heavier in the paraffin waxes.

Correct, PENNSYLVANIA CRUDE.

Now, most oil stocks are still paraffin based, domestic and and off-shore.

If you decide to go through it, discover the needed modification(s) to make it a better engine.

Oh I am definitely going to go through it. Since it will be out of the car fr firewall cleaning would be silly not to.

So, didn't notice this until after I got her home, but the Fairlane has a nifty hitch on it...needs to come off and be sandblasted and repainted, but it is going back on. I can use it to haul my boat to the lake!

Hugh, the other day, while messing around on the internet, I saw a Fairlane with power windows for sale.  It really piqued my interest. 

I think YOU should buy it! I can buy and install power windows for less than it would cost me to buy the car! LOL!!! Yea...you need that car!   :006:

I find that I'm interested in a lot of stuff but not interested enough to part with the money to obtain them.  I'm really tight with my money.  That is, I really hate to part with it

We used to see a lot of Y-B's with these kits back in the day. That one kinda looks homemade though.

There are two oil passages that makes two 90* turns that get stopped up. I've pulled Y-B valve covers that were like a jello mold with a solid mass of jelled oil and crud  around the valve springs and rockers!
I would check under a v/c before putting detergent oil in it! You may need to scoop out the crud with a spoon first so you don't release the crud and plug everything up.

Back then a lot of Y-B's got rebuilt shortblocks and the owners started using good oil and the cars stayed around longer as you really couldn't hurt a Y-B that you changed the oil regularly.

FYI- on 55 chev's the oil filter was optional! And GM recommended BonAmi to seat the rings.

Ron. 

Yes, if you tear it down and clean the oil passages including the dogleg passages in the head you should have years of good service with proper oil changes.  Just be sure to get the rocker pedestals properly oriented over the oil passage during reassembly or you won't get oil to the lifters.

James

I put a hitch on my wagon.  Pulled around my grandpa's trial buying more '57 parts.

Quote from: gasman826 on 2022-10-27 11:52I put a hitch on my wagon.  Pulled around my grandpa's trial buying more '57 parts.

I remember that trailer! You have gotten good service out of it.

Ron & James...thanks for the info. I am planning on a rebuild not too long after I get it running. doubt it will see more than 100 miles (more like 25 to be honest) before it is torn down. I will put fresh oil in it before I fire her up just to keep from possibly doing any damage with oil that is probably over 120 years old.
By the time it goes back together it will be clean enough to eat off of...inside and out.
James...the machine shop I was told to go to by a friend here is run by an older fellow in his mid 60's (younger than me though LOL!) and I will speak with him about the doglegs and rocker alignments. Hopefully he has some experience with both. I am told he is pretty anal about his engine work.

Gasman, my wagon has an identical hitch. Except mine is toast from being hit at some point. So it will come off and I need to repair the frame and come up with another hitch for a trailer.

Mike

So...got the tank out. We will not be re-0using this tank. Has a wee bit of a hole in it...and how it got there...is a mystery!

Quote from: mustang6984 on 2022-10-27 21:51I am told he is pretty anal about his engine work.

Anal is a good thing when building engines.  :002:

Then there is this...

Yea...I will assemble it, but I am going to take it to him for the head work and any block work that might be needed. Am also thinking about balancing it. I used to do that on the 2300 4-cylinder motors in my work cars, gave me a bit better fuel economy and such a smoother running motor. I want this little guy to run forever!

11239/11250 trunk drops are available as patch panels.  I've installed them.  I think I have a pair on a shelf.

I have the same issue on my wagon. Going to learn to weld this winter even if it kills me! Well....hopefully not but you get the point :003: .

Mike

Quote from: 1930artdeco on 2022-10-29 08:52I have the same issue on my wagon. Going to learn to weld this winter even if it kills me! Well....hopefully not but you get the point :003: .

Mike

DITTO!

Quote from: mustang6984 on 2022-10-29 00:56Yea...I will assemble it, but I am going to take it to him for the head work and any block work that might be needed. Am also thinking about balancing it. I used to do that on the 2300 4-cylinder motors in my work cars, gave me a bit better fuel economy and such a smoother running motor. I want this little guy to run forever!

I love the little 2300s, we used to build them for Mini Stock circle track racing.

Here is a photo of the dog leg I was referring to on the yblock heads.
IMG_20221030_095418.jpg

Thank you.  I kept wondering about the dog leg.

I still have one 2300...in my SVO Mustang...with the turbo...that thing is a screamer!

Thanks for the pic. I will save it in my computer to refer to when I tear down.

lower, outer quarter repair panels

So...in looking around so far, it appears the inside is separating. Outside looks okay. since my experience with body work is minimal,, I think I need to get her inspected by someone who knows what they are doing...then buy the appropriate parts. Otherwise I may wind  up with things i don't need...and not have what I do need.
Gonna try to move that way in a couple of weeks, right now...looking to get the rest of my shop floor concreted so I can use it this winter. New shop...going on hold...spent that money to purchase the land for storage units.

Yeah I figured a picture would be better than trying to explain what I meant by a dogleg.  The oil passage from the block meets the head at the far left Portion of the recessed area in the picture, then flows over to the right and up the hole to the rocker stand.  We called it dogleg back in the day since it was shaped kinda like a dogs hind leg.

James

Okay...question then as well. Would chamfering the passage holes help the oiling issue? As long as I have it apart...if a little head work will help the flow might as well do it.

If the cylinder head(s) have not been planed, that passage will be adequate for a street engine.

The trick is in cutting a head to raise CR or having a block decked  so as not to reduce the size.

Poor design (IMO) ...

On the body work. Pick one area and go for it. I suggest doing what I did........do floors, trunk, etc. first, and use that to practice on your welding. You don't want to start on outer body panels. You'll never know exactly what it needs on the outside panels until it's stripped to bare metal. Almost assuredly there are areas previously bondo'd and painted that look to be good now with the old paint hiding things.
That said, about your lower rear quarters......... I can't imagine the inners being rotted out and the outers still good, but if in fact that's the case, and not what I talked about in the first paragraph, it would be very difficult, if not impossible to replace the inners with the outers still in place.
In the last pic Gary quoted, the outer panel on the bottom of the pic is a '57, not sure what the other panel is. (may just be lighting/ distortion)
One note on rear quarters.......Custom and Fairlane are NOT the same......inner or outer.
On both of you guys needing to learn to weld..........there's nothing on your rebuilds/mods that can't be done well with a mig, and it's fairly easy to learn. I'd suggest getting a 220v so you can do things like tranny crossmember mods. I've heard a 110 works well for sheetmetal work, but I've never had one.
A second piece of advice on mig..........the flux core wire is pretty much useless.......make sure whatever welder you get is capable of use with solid wire and shielding gas. I've never used a better brand welder, like Lincoln, only Harbor Freight. My first one was giving me issues with the wire feed after a few years. My second one is a HF 220v 180 amp. and I just love it. On my car, I was able to get strong structural welds on 1/4" steel (cross-member mods), as well as getting a non-leaking weld on the gas tank mods I did for my in tank fuel pump. Also, use a good brand wire, like Lincoln. Harbor Freight wire got tossed.

My OEM quarters were in excellent condition but one of the trunk drops was quite poor.  I installed the trunk drop repair panel without replacing the outer quarter.

I started welding at ten years old.  Never the less, I thought I could always learn more and signed up for a welding class.  I wish I'd attended the class before I bought my first MIG.  The class gave me access to nearly twenty different makes and models of new welders.  Each class, I chose a different welder to experience the features.  I could have been an educated buyer rather than buying by color and what was available.

Here is the secret to good upper oiling for the mid-1956 to 1962 (PASS CAR) FYB-

And no, it is not race engine only.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aw1-lKWsmAc

Also -

- https://www.eatonbalancing.com/2021/12/31/y-block-top-end-oiling-woes/

- https://www.enginekits.com/enginetech-cc508-camshaft-bearing-set.html

Thanks. Good info. :006:

Gary...I was signed up for a class but they canceled it...I was the ONLY one signed up for it.  >:( 

Okay...started to toy with the Fairlane today. Was gonna try spinning the engine over. It had the cylinders oiled down right after I purchased it, and has been inside for 2+ months now.
Appears that it is frozen up solid. Cannot turn it at all...and I have NO desire to bust the bolt off in the crank. Briefly tossed around the idea of taking it out on the back of a chain and slapping it into 3rd gear...but with no brakes to speak of...nope.
So out she comes and on to the engine stand...perhaps Friday or Saturday. I need to do a little more work on putting things straight in the shop before I pull it...but should be able to yank her by Saturday. (I am still gonna need to build that second shop...where did all this stuff come from?  :dontknow: )
The good news...NO sign whatsoever of any oil leaks front, back or on either side.

Good news...NO sign of any leaking on either end or the front or rear!

Trunk is in pretty decent shape. I had a rod shop guy near me come and look at it. He saw two places that he needs to make patches for, and I can get the drop for the spare. I've seen 4 of the vehicles he has made panels for...Yea...he can do that for me!

I see they put a plate over the road draft tube opening, did they add a PCV system?

If they did...it must be the tube coming out of the oil pan. To be honest I didn't look for one. I'll look again tomorrow when I go out. But there isn't any sign of one in either valve cover. Now I am curious...hope that doesn't keep me up all night...or make me put my boots back on and walk down to the shop to look! LOL!!!

Oh...and forgot I am doing a cruise Saturday to an 80 year old Restaurant in Springdale AR, so Sunday, 10:00 a..m. CST time...yanking that bad boy out of the car! Open invite...come on over!

That tube coming out of the oil pan, is in fact, the oil feed tube that includes the pick up screen assembly in side the pan, the tubes goes thru the side of the oil pan, (with a gasket and nut), and into the oil pump, with a rubber seal and a gland nut to secure the tube into the external oil pump, and prevent leaks, both oil and vacuum. Unless a PCV system has been added, either to the lifter valley cover, valve covers, or oil filler tube, and connected to engine vacuum, I would recommend finding an original road draft tube assembly, that bolts to the front of the drivers side of the engines block skirt. Otherwise there is no way to allow the crankcase vapours and pressure to escape.

Would a PCV system not work better? while I don't have to worry too much about the road draft tube system here...I would kind of like to make it cleaner.

Hugh.........Springdale is where Jerry's Classic Cars is located.
www.jerrysclassiccars.com 

Thanks. I'll be with  car club so no chance to drop by, but I will keep my eyes out for his place, perhaps we'll pass by it. I don't know the route, not leading the cruise. But good to know he is nearby! I suspect I'll be visiting him often...and perhaps soon.

HUGH, a  post 57 factory PCV system ( 61-ish) is easy to detect. look at the driver side rear (at firewall) of your intake manifold and the lifter valley cover below it. if there is a bung and pipe coming from there and going up into the carb spacer plate, you got PCV.

I'll check. Carb is off now, but the rest of the stuff is till attached. Thanks.

I may have opened another can of worms  :003:

Quote from: hiball3985 on 2023-01-20 09:46I may have opened another can of worms  :003:

YOU? Nah...NEVER! Could NEVER happen! LOL!!! :003:

G...here is a pic of what I believe you described...

Thats one way to do it, not the best but better the nothing :002:

I can change it before I put it all back together. What do you have in mind? The tried and true valve cover version?

I can't tell from that picture but I'll guess they just drilled a hole in the valley cover and added a grommet and PCV valve? The problem with that is there is no baffle under it ti prevent it from sucking oil. The 61-64 engines had a hole and a baffle, thats the preferred cover to use. It also has a cap that goes on it with an outlet for a hose. Running the hose to the intake is also a bad idea, that will effect the mixture to the rear two cylinders. Even the factory set up did it that way, bad idea. It's best to run the hose into a spacer under the carb. Here is a picture of how the factory did it but all those parts are hard to find. I had to make a modified version.37168744lb.jpg37168744lb.jpg 

So are the spacers available, or do I have to make one?
And if they are available, anyone have a part number?
Thanks.

Did you do your planned cruise today? Colder than heck here.

We did. Was a bit nippy here too. Went  had lunch/dinner at Neal's Restaurant Springdale,and then headed home. Not many cars, but it was fine. Had 27 people show up.

Sunday will also be a good day to be in the shop as it won't be warm outside...and we are removing the engine from the Fairlane.

Hugh, Jim !
The pics that Jim saved and posted are actually taken on my bench.... :003:

x2 all what Jim said above. You better believe him, he knows his Y blocks in and out !

The spot welds in the pics is not that the baffle plate was recently applied or added, but it was a repair, because the original weld tabs had cracked and I welded those up and added another set of little weld 'brackets' to the other side. so the vibrations are spread to both sides and no more stress cracks.
( interesting trivia, is that the pressings in that plate more or less resembles the pressing in a 32 Ford firewall ! they must have figured out a certain stamping pattern, which gives most stiffness and least vibration, but maybe just coincidence).

you can also see the box shaped baffle to the rear. it just about covers the actual bung that the hose fitting is attached to.

I wouldn't attach the hose to the intake either.
one of my 2bbl Y blocks has a , what I think is a Autolite carb, and it actually has a separate spacer plate with a PCV inlet to the rear. No idea if that is factory oem or later replacement. It also had a threaded fitting which was in fact a spring loaded ball PCV valve inside.

if you have a late 4bbl intake, it has the same bolt pattern as any modern Carter/Edelbrock and you can easily get brand new spacer plates in different heights and materials.

Although a completely different application, but I have had great experience with a 1" phenolic spacer on a 302SBF/Weiand intake in my 34 Ford. it also helped in port matching the carb to the intake , with better idle and low rpm throttle response.

in Jims factory drawing, obviously #6A666 is the actual ball check PCV valve. That is very horrible part# by the way.....

(https://up.picr.de/45076535kp.png)

marked area shows the bung/cap on valley cover the PCV hose is attached to.
Note: the fitting in the intake next to it is not where the hose goes to ( it needs to go up and forward to the carb). This 292 came out of an F100, so maybe this intake fitting is for a vaccuum gauge ?

(https://up.picr.de/45077213fq.jpg)

This is another block that shows valley cover area where the cap goes. the cap is held on by a long screw (threaded weld nut can actually be seen on the bare metal pics above)
(https://up.picr.de/45077214mr.jpg)

That's the actual cap/ hose fitting, #6A665 (...phew.... :003: )
(https://up.picr.de/45077215kl.jpg)

Thanks G for the added pictures :001: , that better shows the proffered parts to use. On my set up I use a Holley 4V that has a port for the PCV then a solid phenolic spacer under the carb.

Thanks G...I am running a 2-bbl...and will probably leave it that way as the car is original and I kinda want to keep it same. I will look for the 2-bbl set-up!

Hugh, have you checked  your og 2bbl intake, the area just in front of the carb? look at the diagram Jim posted, there is a 45°(?) fitting that goes into the intake and connects the PCV hose. You could easily drill and tap your manifold, if it doesn't have said port. that way you can omit the additional spacer. the vaccuum will be spread more evenly between the runners. don't forget an inline PCV valve, or one misfire, and you'll blow up your whole engine....( at least make a mess of the crank case, oil pan gaskets and whatnot...)

Also when adding a PCV it's important to get one that flows the right way. I've actually seen people put them in the backwards :005: .

Yea...I have heard of that happening. LOL!!!

Okay...pulled the engine today (temps finally got to 60 today...beats the 25-35 we have had).
Note in pic number 4 the numbers on the firewall. Are these from the factory? Never seen any before on a firewall.

Making good progress :001: Over the years I've seen parts marked like that, usually in yellow.I always drool :023: when I see OD trans. 

What is that cannister on the driver's inner fender well?

Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2023-02-06 14:50What is that cannister on the driver's inner fender well?

Part of the factory air conditioning I believe. I need to research that system some.

Vacuum tank?  Had a factory air 500, no tank like that.  The air system was complete.  Maybe for the brake booster?

Quote from: Ford Blue blood on 2023-02-07 07:43Vacuum tank?  Had a factory air 500, no tank like that.  The air system was complete.  Maybe for the brake booster?

Possible.There is writing on it (see posts & pics on earlier pages) and I tried to read it, but haven't been able to yet. Want to clean it but have been putting that off until I could figure out how to without removing anymore lettering.

Quote from: mustang6984 on 2023-02-07 08:48without removing anymore lettering.

Honetly, I never understood this type of thinking. inho, and often wrong, lol, the only reason for this would be if you are building a never-to-be-driven concourse level car. Or, if your planning just the opposite and don't mind the writing interfering with restoration. Photograph it, then duplicate after paint and/or clean-up.

Duplicating it would be pretty much impossible. And if it were possible horrendously expensive.

Are you guys talking about the crayon markings on the firewall ? I would leave them as is, Probably the firewall doesn't need repainting, but only a good scrub with dish washer or CLR to remove the oil and coolant spray surface rust. Just spare the numbers and keep them intact. Personally I love those markings left form factory or engine overhaul. They tell about the life of a car.  these og factory stamps are still visible on my
CS. Of course they date match the build. (March 57)

(https://up.picr.de/45159985bo.jpg)

(https://up.picr.de/45159986ir.jpg)

PS, that canister is NOT a factory looking brake booster vaccuum reservoir. that one usually sits inside the drivers inner fender well, under fender.

G...Terry Bly and I were talking on the phone last night and wondering if it was a booster for the windshield wipers?

hmmm...usually the windshield wipers don't have a vac tank. the og type fuel pump has a vacuum pump on top. hoses run from carb/manifold to pump and then directly to wipers and heater valve. Maybe the fuel pump was replaced by a single action fuel pump only and somebody tried to help the wipers with an auxiliary tank. I have never seen that type of vac tank in a 57, but maybe it's a very early unit or aftermarket replacement.

edit. Hugh, on page 1 your post #12 you posted a pic of the engine, and sure enough, that is only a single action mechanic fuel pump on the engine, without a vacuum unit.

this is how the factory dual action fuel pump looks like. with the vacuum pump on top.

Do you mean the vacuum tank behind the wheel under the fender on top of the inner fender?  That is the is the power brake vacuum  reservoir.

Quote from: mustang6984 on 2023-02-07 08:48Possible.There is writing on it (see posts & pics on earlier pages) and I tried to read it, but haven't been able to yet. Want to clean it but have been putting that off until I could figure out how to without removing anymore lettering.

That is not the factory style vacuum tank for power brakes, it is either for something else or something someone added.

I have never seen a canister like that. Might make sense that someone added it for the wipers. The '57 my grandmother bought new never had a dual function fuel pump (as far as I know) and the wipers were worthless in south Louisiana. The power brake reservoir is on the rear of the inner fender underneath the left fender.

Quote from: thomasso on 2023-02-08 18:14Do you mean the vacuum tank behind the wheel under the fender on top of the inner fender?  That is the is the power brake vacuum  reservoir.

The green one mounted on top of the driver's side inner fender well. The one with the red lettering. If that is a power booster for brakes then I will be happier than hell!

The booster is under the dash. It is a bellows connected to the brake pedal.

Quote from: lalessi1 on 2023-02-10 11:08The booster is under the dash. It is a bellows connected to the brake pedal.

Well....then I wonder what this thing is? Driving me nuts now...and I am rarely far from being totally insane... :003:

What is it connected to? Any vacuum hoses or electrical connections? I've never seen one like that and I would guess it's some aftermarket thing.

Wasn't hooked up to anything, but has a vacuum line. I'll look at it some more today, as I am going to be working on the car a bit today. Try to figure out where the line might b]have gone. Engine is out now.

Okay...cleaned the cylinder off enough with water to be able to read the printing. It is a radiator overflow canister.

and now on to other stuff...
I was able to get the bolts out of the radiator support. Mostly. Have a couple to work on yet. BUT...the bottom one was the challenge of the day. To say it was rusted in is to say water is wet. I soaked it with PB Blaster...and then tried removing it. No good...stripped the damn nut. Tried using a set of removal sockets for stripped nuts...got nowhere. So...grinder with cutting blade,, thinking maybe cut the nut without damaging bolt. As you can see from pics...waste of time. So...now I need a new bolt. Anyone have one or know where I can get one? Looks like a specialty bot for that application.

And then...does anyone know where these rubber flaps can be purchased...and HOW they were "stapled" to the car?

I believe what you're looking for is in Dennis Carpenter's catalog as:

B7A-16254      Fender splash apron seal       $19.95   

I believe the staples come with the seals.  If not just make some from gas welding rod.

Quote from: terry_208 on 2023-02-13 14:40I believe what you're looking for is in Dennis Carpenter's catalog as:

B7A-16254      Fender splash apron seal       $19.95   

Thanks Terry!  :002:

Thomasso...how do you staple them into the frame? Do I need a special gun or is there a trick with a hammer? Thanks!

Glad to see you're progreesing on your car, thanks for the photos, I enjoy looking at them. When I replaced my splash shield I used the same holes that were punched from the factory. It took some time but the end result was worth the effort. Good luck on your progress. 

Hugh, I found the bolt that Terry was suppose to get when he bought my radiator suport I called him the other day and told him I had found it, but he dosen't need it, so it is yours if you want it. Take care, Alvin

Quote from: alvin stadel on 2023-02-13 21:32Hugh, I found the bolt that Terry was suppose to get when he bought my radiator suport I called him the other day and told him I had found it, but he dosen't need it, so it is yours if you want it. Take care, Alvin

Yes please sir. Let me know how much for the bolt and the shipping and I will send you a check this week. Appreciate it buddy!

Quote from: Wirenut on 2023-02-13 19:11Glad to see you're progreesing on your car, thanks for the photos, I enjoy looking at them. When I replaced my splash shield I used the same holes that were punched from the factory. It took some time but the end result was worth the effort. Good luck on your progress. 

Slow for now, but yes...progress. Doing things I don't need to spend cash on until I sell a piece of property...then I will ratchet things up a bit. Need to get it up and at least running as soon as possible so I can go see Rich and maybe sme others of you in Texas!  :006:

Quote from: mustang6984 on 2023-02-13 18:26Thanks Terry!  :002:

Thomasso...how do you staple them into the frame? Do I need a special gun or is there a trick with a hammer? Thanks!

I suspect at the factory they used a special staple gun.

Yea...that's what I am afraid of...some big air powered thing that could drive a staple into titanium! LOL!!!

Hugh;  Im thinking that it is the seal stapled to the inner fender that you are referring to. I can't really tell from the picture.  I just used the existing holes enlarging them to fit my staples.  I,m not home now so I can't look to see what I used. Old, no memory.  I do remember that the holes are random, no symmetry and if you make them nice your going to have a lot of extra holes.  Tom.

Quote from: thomasso on 2023-02-14 11:31Hugh;  Im thinking that it is the seal stapled to the inner fender that you are referring to. I can't really tell from the picture.  I just used the existing holes enlarging them to fit my staples.  I,m not home now so I can't look to see what I used. Old, no memory.  I do remember that the holes are random, no symmetry and if you make them nice your going to have a lot of extra holes.  Tom.

Yea..I was sorta thinking I might need to use the same holes. If so, I will try to not make hoes in the rubber until I know exactly where they need to be so i can avoid the extra holes.
I'm guessing I can just slide the new staples through into the old holes then take a ball-peen and tap them over to a fit.
Hey...go over to Phoenix P.D. and ask for Detective Jaime Ramirez...tell him I said that you were sent over to take him this October  to lunch! (I'll reimburse you! LOL!!!) He is a tight buddy of mine...a car guy and a heck of a great person! We're going to do Route 66 in '24...he retires this October. He is the assigning detective these days...no longer allowed out on the street due to an on-the-job injury.

The next time a picture of this poor motor is posted...it will look MUCH better...and be ready to perform. Went down the road yesterday to the machine shop for it's beginnings of rebuild!  :003:

IS that breather cap attached to the valve cover or just ended up sitting there? And where is the oil filler tube from the valley cover?

It was attached. And the breather was long ago replaced by a PCV valve system on the back of the motor. I'll look and see if I have a better pic of it...or if he hasn't started tear down yet, I'll shoot a pic of it today when I am there.

I am guessing someone has the proper paint scheme for the engine for when it comes back from the machine shop. Block, heads and valve covers. Not sure what I am going to do about an air filter housing at this point, but if I go with the stock one I would need the proper color for that as well.
I am not going to go full Concourse, but I do want it to have a pretty close to stock look so that only those who REALLY  know '57's would notice any changes.
Thanks

Hugh, the 57 292Y block is Ford orange-red, the whole motor is that color except the valve covers (black with white/grey Thunderbird Special Decals), breather cap ( black) and the og dry element air cleaner is Argent Silver. Of course the fan, pulleys, starter and generator are also black.

Actually the 292s didn't get the "Thunderbird Special" decals. They got a simpler "Thunderbird V8" single line decal...

https://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb.dll?parta~dyndetail~Z5Z5Z50000051e~Z5Z5Z517319~P10.50~~~~S6LD0JPH2C23114113130c~Z5Z5Z5~Z5Z5Z50000051e

My back up engine and the one in the car.

Thanks guys...except mine does not have those fancy T-Bird valve covers. Any paint codes or preferred rattle can paints?

Quote from: mustang6984 on 2023-04-14 08:50Thanks guys...except mine does not have those fancy T-Bird valve covers. Any paint codes or preferred rattle can paints?

All the valve covers are the same, only the decals are different.

Bill Hirsch Thunderbird red. Specificely for engines and correct color.  Its getting hard to find correct colors.  Had to go to Hirsch to get correct green for Buick nailhead.

Quote from: hiball3985 on 2023-04-14 08:54All the valve covers are the same, only the decals are different.

Well...I was just down in the shop...and looked at mine. And...here is something to twist the mind now. One of mine is smooth as glass...(probably had the sticker/decal originally) The other...is embossed (stamped) with FORD in it.
I would like to have another that says FORD to be honest.
I'll shoot pics when I go back down. Just finished lunch...heading down now.

I think you will find the tractor stores have quarts and rattle cans of Ford Red.  It is Ford tractor red but I think it is extremely close to Ford car engine red.

FORD embossed Y block valve covers are 1958 and later. They DO look great! I have a single one, but shipping overseas will be extremely expensive. You should be able to find a decent one for 25 bucks or so on ebay.

Lynn, thanx for correcting me on the 'Thunderbird V8 and Thunderbird Special' decals. my bad.

Quote from: mustang6984 on 2023-04-14 11:31Well...I was just down in the shop...and looked at mine. And...here is something to twist the mind now. One of mine is smooth as glass...(probably had the sticker/decal originally) The other...is embossed (stamped) with FORD in it.
I would like to have another that says FORD to be honest.
I'll shoot pics when I go back down. Just finished lunch...heading down now.

Jim, the valley cover is black on your engine. would that be factory correct or your own personal choice? I thought they could have been red.

Quote from: hiball3985 on 2023-04-14 08:25My back up engine and the one in the car.

Dupli-color makes engine paint,primer and clear coat. Ford Red, PN DE-1605

Quote from: gasman826 on 2023-04-14 11:48I think you will find the tractor stores have quarts and rattle cans of Ford Red.  It is Ford tractor red but I think it is extremely close to Ford car engine red.

Thank you Gary. I'll look.

Quote from: lalessi1 on 2023-04-14 13:25Dupli-color makes engine paint,primer and clear coat. Ford Red, PN DE-1605

EXCELLENT! I'll need to re-paint the block and heads. I assume since it is dedicated as engine paint it will stand up to the heart and not peel off as soon as it gets hot.

Quote from: mustang6984 on 2023-04-14 11:31Well...I was just down in the shop...and looked at mine. And...here is something to twist the mind now. One of mine is smooth as glass...(probably had the sticker/decal originally) The other...is embossed (stamped) with FORD in it.
I would like to have another that says FORD to be honest.
I'll shoot pics when I go back down. Just finished lunch...heading down now.

I think the FORD ones were from 58 to 64

Quote from: djfordmanjack on 2023-04-14 12:21Jim, the valley cover is black on your engine. would that be factory correct or your own personal choice? I thought they could have been red.

Just my choice..I'm not politically correct either :-)

Quote from: hiball3985 on 2023-04-14 18:02I think the FORD ones were from 58 to 64

I like the Ford one. If anyone has one or more they want to part with...I'll take it/them.  :003:

So...went to the shop today and worked on the front left fender that was damaged when the deadbeat cut my straps on the way home causing the car to come off the trailer and roll into the trailer.
BUT...I forgot to take pics of the damaged areas...so all I have to post is the repaired areas.
Does not look to bad if I say so myself. Slow and easy and it came out pretty decent.

1st pic...there was a large concave dent at an angle from right below the bottom body line at a 45 degree angle toward the wheel well. A little massaging with a port-a-power and then hammer and dolly and a block of wood...and looks pretty fair again.
2nd pic...same spot...just a better look.
3rd pic...where the rust is there was a dent that was about 2 inches long and 1 1/2 high. Took  little bit of soft massaging with a small hammer and dolly.
4th pic...all gone!
Pics are not all that great...and without previous pics of the damage...kinda hard to tell what is what. I'll remember to shoot before and after pics next time. :005:

I seem to remember the "FORD" valve covers were on the 272s if that is the case you might be building a sleeper! Lol!

Well...once I decide to go forward...I just go. LOL!!!
Decided to order the floor pans for the Fairlane..so called EMS and ordered the floor pans just now. Paid for them with the VISA and hung up.
Then...well...it dawned on me...the guy never told me how much I had just spent...and I never asked! Can't believe I did that...must be either a case of car lust...or old age...LOL!!!
I think I'm gonna go with car lust!!!

Okay...just got back from the machine shop.
First...the engine is a 312 not a 292.
Second...one of the heads has some spider cracks in it, but he says they are repairable.
Third...ample evidence that the heads at least have been worked on before...as the head with the cracks had cracks in another location before which was repaired. However, I asked if the head had been planed after the repair, thinking that something was off that the same head has cracks in it twice. There is also evidence that there has been a blown head gasket before on the same head, while the other has not had any issues of any sort.
He said he doesn't think the head was planed. So...both heads will be getting planed and the block deck is also going to be planed to be sure everything is flat as a 5 day old bottle of pop that has been left uncapped!
Fourth...we discussed the fuel system...and I am going to stay with the 2 bbl carb. Since I am not looking for a racer but just a cruiser, I am not willing to spend another grand for an intake and a new carb. If I decide later to make a change in that part, spend that much cash, it will probably be to go with an injection system.
****************************************
Also had the body guy over Saturday. I have a list of panels to buy. Floors as stated in post above are already on order...from EMS and just a shade under $900.00

Progress...still don't see the light on the other end of the tunnel...yet...but I have been told there is one.   :003:

AND...the floors just arrived 5 minutes ago!  :003:

Progress!. Keep it going!

Just unwrapped them. They're oh so purddy!!! :003:
Looks like I will need to put new body mounts in before I remove and replace the floors though. Body guy said the originals are pretty ugly and might have an effect on the floors being installed. So...ordering those tomorrow.

Thanks Rich!

What seems to be the preferred place to go for body mount replacements? Need to order some tonight. Thanks!

As far as I know, Dennis Carpenter is the only manufacturer of the body mount kits. All the other distributors are just selling DC stuff. Might as well go direct. Hope they are in stock, in the past when DC runs out, so does everyone else and may have a year or so wait.

How are your floor support ends? inner rockers?

I will check DC then...thanks.
Need full rockers on both sides. He also wants me to replace one floor support on the driver side. I have a list of metal to buy that will all in all probably run me around a grand. But not too bad actually. That would put me at about $2500 total for metal replacement...so getting off easy I think. I also need a spare tire insert. The rest of the trunk patches he can make. He is a wizard at that talent. I have seen his work. WOW!
Only charges $55 an hour too. His shop is on his property...all paid for...so no real harsh overhead and as he said...he does it all because he likes it...not to get rich! I lucked out.

G- heads and not hard to find. I would hate to put 400 or 500 dollars in cracked repaired heads. I was thinking all stock  ( dcode) 312 engine were 4 barrel.

The cracks are not such as they worried him. This guy builds race engines for a lot of guy around here...and all of them swear by...not at him. Local fire chief has been using him for over 20 years with his race car. Loves his work.
He showed me how he does the repair, and some that he has done. I'm good with the work he will do.
Apparently not all were 4bbl. I thought so as well. I have a 2 bbl manifold that was on the car, and I have already rebuilt the carb. So since I am planning on just driving it all over the country...for now I am going to leave it as is. However...if down the road I decide to go to a throttle body F.I. system then I guess I'll have to get a 4 bbl manifold...unless they make a 2 bbl F.I. system.

Holley and Fitech make 2bbl fuel injection systems that fit the Holley/Autolite 2bbl intake.

Ford 312s were 4bbl, but some Mercury 312s had 2bbl.  Are the heads ECZ-G?

I am not sure. They are at the machine shop. I might have a pic or two that will show the cast numbers. I'm on the way to bed now...but I will look at the pics tomorrow.
He was sending them off to a bead blaster and magnaflux shop when I was there today. But I'll drive down and see if they are still there.
So...are you thinking that I may have a Merc engine...or just that someone swapped in a Merc 2bbl intake?

Hugh, Watching the metal floor portion of your build with earnest. Since I will be doing the same thing in about three months and then for the next 6 months. Good luck as I am hoping to fire up my car in the next month or so. Won't go anywhere but I want to break her in, at least I will have progress...

Mike

Mike...looks like finding body mounts may be a challenge. DC is out, and they sent me an e-mail saying they have no idea when they'll have them again. So the search is on for a set. I don't have the interest or time to sit around waiting for them to come up with a set.
I'll definitely post pics of the before and after as well as during process for you.

Okay...Dennis Carpenter is out of body mount kits..and sent me an e-mail telling me they had no idea when they would have more. Not being willing to wait until my next 21st birthday (which is 51 years away) to get some...I have gone searching.
I found this set from Vintage Ford Parts R Us.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175349835538
Feedback anyone?
And this set from Steel Rubber...
https://www.steelerubber.com/body-mounting-pad-kit-20-1871-48
Again...thoughts...
Thanks. One is going to get purchased within the next 48 hours following answers here. Need to get moving...motor is in the machine shop...metal is being ordered...body guy is now hopped u to help me do the work. The chef is in the kitchen and it's time to bake a pie!  :003:

Body Mounts  I would called all vendors I could. Some may have them  in stock. The vendors with the highest price would be place to start. Can you put up pics of crack repair. The only way I have seen is tapered pin or tap type.

Quote from: cos on 2023-04-25 16:08Can you put up pics of crack repair. The only way I have seen is tapered pin or tap type.

He is going to do the tapered pin style. Said he drills a small hole...threads it...then runs a reverse tapered screw into the hole. The pins are pre-set torque-wise to snap off the head when they are tightened to spec. Then he grinds what is left off the top and dresses it a bit. The reversed threads make it impossible for the pin to back out. Said he has never had an issue with them...and has used them in race engines as well as street drivers.

As for the mounts...yea...probably will have to call each that I can  get a number for. I was thinking Steel Rubber might be the one most likely to win this competition. They have pretty solid rep...and I've seen some of their stuff on other cars in the past. AND..they are the more expensive one! LOL!!!

Hugh
Both vendors you listed for the body mount kits say they are out of stock.
You might try Rubber The Rightway out in California

Ray

I will check them out tonight. Thanks!

or Concourse, or Classic auto Parts in OKC. This is why I've mentioned numerous times in the past to get the kits asap when starting a project because there's only the one manufacturer. Concourse would be my first call.

Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2023-04-25 18:14or Concourse, or Classic auto Parts in OKC. This is why I've mentioned numerous times in the past to get the kits asap when starting a project because there's only the one manufacturer. Concourse would be my first call.

Classic would be good...excuse for a road trip to see wife's sister and her husband and their cousin!  :006:

this is convertible only, but you may want to ask, what else they might have in stock.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/153364037987?epid=8028701727&hash=item23b5358163:g:zlsAAOSwehZZ~-cC&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0PwOGC2zVTLf%2Fzf0rb22v%2FVLzslbNnbYoJzhJk69FnW0wXLoWnd%2FqmblBXNqZV5UxRpLW37peocUKxMoLMkcA0HoMUqywdmVriL0GNDtnSBu4Txe3lPxDibGsLL1TSPbRnC02ymUW7Y585k9%2BPzfpwiqNN08FxFK2it9pUipzXbZpi5xtoOjHA2%2BoPRSMDH8m%2FdjAgUEA6SvhjLsfH4iy0pXTsIVGnSiYsa5TfQ7iun2qxESlcYA7mtwpDka4aYsfpYlw2D4is0kOzGpbpKPtFM%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_TX7cn3YQ

Around my neck of woods crack repair  for cast iron repair is extremely expensive. Where are the cracks at? Since AL heads have there are some really nice G heads out there, biggest problem is shipping. To redo heads positive seals, harden EX seats, new guides, probably some new valves is around 4-5 hundred plus.

They were very small. Up near the edge of intake valve. We discussed replacing the heads, he said they would be much more expensive than the repair. I will be doing hardened seats etc as well.

Thanks G...I will look!

Hugh, I forgot about a possible source right in your neighborhood.........Jerry's classic cars in Springdale Ark.

My experience is all of them sell the same kit (made by Dennis Carpenter), so it is a matter of who has it in stock. Took me a few calls and emails to find mine last fall.

Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2023-04-26 09:15Hugh, I forgot about a possible source right in your neighborhood.........Jerry's classic cars in Springdale Ark.

I will check him out. He is only about an hour and change from me. Thanks.

ak...yea...I am going to have to possibly do that if Jerry's doesn't have them. Thanks guys!

Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2023-04-26 09:15Hugh, I forgot about a possible source right in your neighborhood.........Jerry's classic cars in Springdale Ark.

Too late now to call...but Jerry's shows a kit for $100.00. I'll call tomorrow and verify it is the complete kit and will work for my car. If it does...then I will be heading down tomorrow to pick up a set! Thanks for the heads up!

Well...I tried every avenue you guys suggested along with some others...and NO ONE has any. Everyone gets them from Dc...and some have been out of stock for months. One place (the OKC place) just sold the last ones they had 2 days ago! Everyone said they have been getting lots of calls for them too...one said over a dozen in the last couple of weeks. Which meas we have a lot a lot of 57 Ford owners out there who are not on this forum apparently! We need to find a way to get them on board!
So...I guess Friday I am going to call Dennis Carpenter and see if I can nudge them forward. I am not going to stop my project though waiting...I could be sitting here a year waiting. Moving forward.

Ouch! I placed orders with all the distributors when I couldn't find a kit. I figured that was 4 or 5 "nudges" to get them built. I think it was 4 or 5 months before DC ran a batch. The old mounts in your car shouldn't stop your bodyman from getting the work done.......I changed out mine long after all the floor and body work was done.
Maybe our comments here were read by others, and that's a reason for so many inquiries. There's always 3 or 4 times as many guests as members on here. We help a lot of '57 guys even though we may not realize it at the time.

When I did my body mount kit install, I found an article here on the website that details the 'replacement' method. I guess ford reversed the way they install the double sided nuts and bolts from top down to bottom up. To me it made sense, so that is what I did.

Today's situation in parts availability makes me appreciate so much more, when I was able to purchase most all parts needed for my Del Rio about 10 years back along with the purchase of car. Can't believe it has been 10 years since I drove my DR from Az to Ca and shipped it out to Europe....

I called DC today but they are closed on Fridays. So Monday...I'm ringing the phone.

So I called DC and the news is worse than not good. I talked to an older guy (as in older than me-70) and he said "I'll tell you how it is, and I don't care if they don't like it...cause I am old and past caring". He said that when Dennis died, and Jr inherited the business, the caring about being short or out of items produced by the company went to the grave with Dennis.
Under Dennis if they ran out of something, then if needed an OT shift was implemented until there was stock made up and shelves were full again. Now...it isn't all that important. He said there are meetings mid-week where discussions are held about operations and that includes inventory. He has pointed out the issue of missing parts before...and yet...here we are. He said he honestly can not tell me when or even IF there will be any more body mount kits made. He thinks perhaps Jr is trying to run the business down and then sell it.
(I called a ton of places...and no one has any, and many have long ago called DC and stated they were out and had waiting lists. He pulled up a list of clients wanting these and other parts that are out of stock)

So..anyone have ANY ideas on how to possibly rejuvenate the rubber pads? Cause I am  not gonna have the interest or time to wait around for months or years to do this stuff. Let the thoughts fly!

Hugh, you need to find yourself a local business that specializes in industrial rubber components. contact HD equipment suppliers like truck shops, Caterpillar, John Deere, and see where they get their obsolete parts made. I  am sure some smaller company can run a badge of 20 or so rubber doughnuts exactly the size you want them. I can take dimensions of the new replacement set I have. You will have to use plenty of kroil or such to save the special washers and nuts, but it should be possible to retract most all of them, maybe just replace the actual bolts with new stainless hardware. these are not rocket science. you may even want to leave the old ones in place and just do away with a cheap body shim set. keep it simple, you want to drive this thing !

Unfortunately this situation with DC has been going on for sometime. If they ever make the kits again don't be surprised if they are made in China. Thats the route they have been going with several parts..

I would call Steele Rubber and let them know of the situation. They may have or can produce the rubber pads. I would also try Restoration Specialties They offer a ton of small parts.

The rubber I replaced was no good, but some of the HW could be saved/cleaned up. The bolts are likely bad but many of the nuts could work. I'd be happy to send them in case you can do anything with them. This assumes you could find someone to make the rubber pieces for you.

So one of our Forum members, Ray Summit (who is in Fairland Indiana) let me know that he had a Fairlane kit that he had never used and has decided to not use. He graciously offered it to me, so I am buying that one from him.
I am going to follow up on other suggestions though to see if I can find other sources for other members to use in the future. Plus I have one, but will need another kit for a Courier as I have two of them.
So, back on track. I hope to be putting the new kit in within 10 days to two weeks, then the floors.

Thanks again Ray..YOU...are a life saver sir!  :006:

Quote from: 1930artdeco on 2023-04-27 18:57When I did my body mount kit install, I found an article here on the website that details the 'replacement' method. I guess ford reversed the way they install the double sided nuts and bolts from top down to bottom up. To me it made sense, so that is what I did.

I am guessing that is to keep the damage to the threads at a minimum. Is that what you deduced too?
Did the bolts coming up into the interior present any issues for you?

Quote from: djfordmanjack on 2023-05-02 05:23Hugh, you need to find yourself a local business that specializes in industrial rubber components. contact HD equipment suppliers like truck shops, Caterpillar, John Deere, and see where they get their obsolete parts made. I  am sure some smaller company can run a badge of 20 or so rubber doughnuts exactly the size you want them. I can take dimensions of the new replacement set I have. You will have to use plenty of kroil or such to save the special washers and nuts, but it should be possible to retract most all of them, maybe just replace the actual bolts with new stainless hardware. these are not rocket science. you may even want to leave the old ones in place and just do away with a cheap body shim set. keep it simple, you want to drive this thing !

I will check that out. a lot of tractor shops and such around here...BIG ranching community so I might be able to have some success along those lines! (I'll be looking for another Courier set at this point...I have one now, but have two of those, so better start looking now...rather than wait.)
And yes...I do want to drive it!

Good to hear, and kuddos to Ray for taking care of another member!! Don't forget to buy a lottery ticket.

I assumed they rotated the bolts and nuts so the it is easier to replace parts. Put the nuts underneath just for ease of replacement. But that is just a guess.

Rich:
I met Ray the trip out to pick up the Fairlane! Great guy with a nice shop and nicer car! He also gave me the front seat he had laying in the shop waiting for a home. Nice seat, so I only have to get the back seat covered to match. White and black. I'll shot a pic of it in a day or two and post it. I am going to go with a black carpet and white headliner to match the seats! It'll look great!

So I called Steel Rubber...and they are well aware of the issue re: DC and their lack of interest in  keeping up with demand. The person I talked with was very sympathetic, but told me that with out the tooling at this time, (which is very expensive to create) they were kind of out of the lop for making what is needed. I was told that this may change someday...but at this time...unknown when or if.

I suspect I am going to run into the same thing when I follow up on Gunther's idea. What it going to take is for them (Steele Rubber) to be given a set of body mounts for each type of car, then they can reverse engineer them for molds,
We did this when I was coaching women's fastpitch. We had found a catchers/first baseman glove that was phenomenal, but only available from Japan. We sent one to Nokona in Texas, and they made them for us. We were able to get them cheaper here by about $20, which in the 80's was a chunk of change for girls and women who used them Guys eventually started using them as well. I still have one they gave me on a factory tour a year after they started making them. The plant manager told me they could hardly keep up with demand after one year of making them.
Don't know how we can go about the making of what we need without at least a set of each one needed and then taking them to Steele Rubber and having a sit down with a manager. They are located in Denver North Carolina. I'd be happy to make that drive if I had the needed units to take them. Used sets probably would not work, since the rubber mounts would be all compressed out of factory original dimensions. Cleaned up metal saddles, washers/seats and bolts would probably be okay.
Ideas?

Quote from: 1930artdeco on 2023-05-05 22:03I assumed they rotated the bolts and nuts so the it is easier to replace parts. Put the nuts underneath just for ease of replacement. But that is just a guess.

Probably...much faster on an assembly line too. But I think I am going to follow your lead. Never thought of it before...but I like the idea. Thanks for the info!

I would think the metal components could be made my many shops on a short-run basis, or a shop like EMS might be interested in making tooling for permanent longer runs. It's the rubber that will have minimal possibilities.....but on the other hand, a "donut" shape has got to be pretty simple tooling.

Well...if all of them were the same yea. But when I looked at the one I bought for the Courier, (which is still in it's box) it appeared to me that the donuts were a little different depending on where they were in the car.
I'll have to look again...to be sure I am correct.
Off to bed... :sleepy1: going to a show tomorrow in Pea Ridge AR with the Saleen.

By "simple", I was refering to the shape as compared to a window or door seal that would require an extruding machine with complicated extruding dies.

If Carpenters once manufactured them it seams the molds would already be in existence?

Agreed, but there are lots of "buts" attached, including possible licensing from Ford.
For grins, I You Tubed "moulding rubber components" and got tons of hits, everything from small and large companies making custom rubber parts, to How to make automotive rubber components at home. Big thing would be how durable a home made rubber component would be.  There's tons of work involved to install a kit, so I'm not one who would even want to try out a home made set without tons of research. A quick look at the You Tube video headlines shows an apparent availability of the "chemicals" needed in small quantity volumn. (1 gal. jugs)

I think DC is just eliminating things that aren't in high demand. How many people need them now or in the near future? probably not many. I wouldn't really expect to see them again unfortunately..

Well...one place in CA had a dozen requests over the last 2 weeks.
And getting the molds from DC...might be a chore. Or not if they don't want to d them anymore.

Quote from: mustang6984 on 2022-10-18 19:09And KUL...you WILL get pics of the underside of the rockers. :003:

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