starting my 4.6 swap

[canadian_ranchero]

yes i went borgenson,seems to work well,about 3 turns stop to stop

[RICH MUISE]

Without going back thru your thread to see, were there any clearance problems with the exhaust? It sure would be awesome to have our cars together so we could test drive each others to actually see/feel the difference in Borgenson vs rack. lol...You ready for a long road trip....how 'bout we meet in Colorado next year? The rack sure is a vast improvement over the oem, but honestly at this point I'm thinking Borgenson might have been a better way to go. Of course it wasn't available back when I did mine, but I'm seriously wondering if there's enough difference to change over some time down the road.
I'm assuming you have no loss of turning radius, but I'm also wondering how your car is returning to center. I will say taking a good look at my installation...ujoints, etc..is something that was on my list of things to do when I got sidetracked on the accident. Mine also seems to have some lumps in the turning that maybe could be eliminated with ujoint adjustment.? U joints if there is a sticking point could be affecting the return to center as well.I just don't know at this point. I also need to check the adjustment of the turning stop bolts which I had in place to see what it is that is actually stopping the turning.

[Ford Blue blood]

Just finished a Borgeson conversion on a fellow Ford fanatic's 67 Fairlane.  He loves it.  No lose of turning radius, returns as it should, has good road feel and is as tight as a new car.  Good days worth of work.  This one was a little more complicated as we had to fit a GM pump to the 86 302 serpentine system.  Other then that and shortening the column for the rag joint it was a complete bolt in.  Very happy with the ease of installation.  Would recommend purchasing the entire kit for good component match up.

[canadian_ranchero]

if you look back at my posts you will see how tight the exhaust was to the box,needed to put/make  a custom exhaust elbow and put in a heat shield.put in a coupler and modifyed the steering coluum as needed.the new set up borgeson has now may not have this problem. i put in some more positive caster[would like some more]seems to return to center o/k.one reason i went this way is one of the last owners had redone the steering linkage,so it was almost new.with the granada spindles i think i have more turning radius than stock.i used the 4.6 power steering pump[it came off the mustang i got the hydro boost from]has power assist at idle[some early ford pumps have a problem with this]hope i have answered your questions.when is the colorado show?you never know,a long road trip would be fun   

[RICH MUISE]

You answered my questions...thanks.
There's only 2 big shows in Colorado that I know of...the nsra in Pueblo in the spring, and the Goodguys up north of Denver in September. There's some smaller shows that are really neat throughout the summer. I forget what town you live in...seem like it was due north of Wyoming someplace? Keep it in mind...too early probably for both of us to be planning for next year. I lived in Colorado for 23 years...I'd be a good tour guide. Maybe we could start a '57 get-together/cruise. There's 3 or 4 members on this forum I get to visit with occationally.

[canadian_ranchero]

still working on my idle issue.found a ford service bulletin talking about a kit to help repair idle issues ford part f2pz-9f939-a.have one on the way.will post the result when i get it in the car 

[RICH MUISE]

Please do. I didn't drive the donor MarkViii long enough to have any idling issues, but I'm pretty sure it didn't, and the previous owner had stated he never had any issues with the car whatsoever since he bought it new. So, makes me wonder which of the changes I made when I swapped it into the '57 are causing the issue...exhaust deleting the cat. converters and (2) O2 sensors, wiring in general,mods to the intake plenum, etc, etc
I gotta get one more long cruise done on mine before potential of getting caught in a winter storm sets in....may head up to Colorado for the weekend....60* and zero chance of percipitation for the next 5 days...sounds good to me!

[RICH MUISE]

Several things to add to the idle issue. I have a friend who installed a 96 4.6dohc into a '36 Chevy for a local guy. His also came out of a Mark VIII with no idle issues. This install was done with a specially modified harness and a reprogramed computer. Alot of sensors, egr stuff,etc were eliminated. He is running only 2 O2 sensors as we are. His idle is exactly like mine. Idles fine for about 2 minutes, then idle speed drops and it starts loping like it's got a hot cam in it. So, three different approaches to computer/wiring installation with similar results.
I went up into the mountains again this week, and the same thing happened as it did the first time I got up there....my check engine light never came on all the time I was at the higher altitude. I'll have to check what the altitude actually was, but guessing it was 2-3k feet higher than Colorado Springs, so I'm thinking 8-10K. This time I paid attention to the idleing and if anything it was worse in that it got to the loping point quicker.
So considering the repeat of the no-check-engine light at higher altitude, I'm not sure what that's indicating, but there's got to be something!!, and I'm thinking the thrown codes also have nothing to do with the idling, as one appears to have got better, and one worse.
What kind of a kit is it that you have ordered? A Ford part that is still available? Is this wiring, or hardware? Both me and my friend are anxious to hear about your results.

[lalessi1]

Rich, I can say I really do not know much about this but I have a guess...Sounds like the engine runs fine when it is just started almost like it is in a "start" mode. Once the engine has started and run for a bit the issue starts as "temperature" is reached and the computer starts to actuate the non existant EGR system the issue begins. Perhaps the computer is injecting a bit more or a bit less fuel to compensate and the programming allows the O2 sensor outputs to vary a bit as part of the EGR operation. Altitude seems like it could impact the situation if this were the case. NOx is the pollutant controlled by the EGR but I don't think the computer measures it directly??? Maybe it is factoring the O2 sensor outputs??? WAG 

[RICH MUISE]

I have all my egr stuff, in fact, I replaced the valve and sensor with new before installing the engine. My friend's 36 Chevy had the egrs removed, but the computer was reprogramed. and Gary/Canadian Ranchero I believe deleted the EGR's, not sure what he did about the programing.

[lalessi1]

Gotcha! Just following the problem, interested in the solution.

[RICH MUISE]

The input is appreciated.

[gasman826]

Very frustrating chasing gremlins in an EFI system without diagnostic tools...much like tweaking a carburetor.  Experience or guessing.  Since at cold startup, the idle is correct and issues arise at operating temperature, the Coolant Temperature Sensor (CTS) could be responsible.  The OEM geniuses us two sensors for coolant temperature.  One sensor, the CTS for the ECM and the other for the gauge.  So, just because your gauge says the engine is at operating temperature doesn't mean the ECM sees the same data.  If I had to GUESS, I'd change the CTS.  It's readily available, fairly cheap, and easy to change. 

DISCLAIMER:  I hate guessing and strongly recommend using a diagnostic tool.  Using and becoming familiar with a tool is critical to affordable repairs.

Another guess would be to look into the altitude sensor.   

[canadian_ranchero]

this kit is used when the idle is slow/loping.it fits between the intake and the idle air motor.it lets you set the idle speed manually with out moving the idle setting on the throttle body.ford had a problem in the early 90's as the idle passages filled with deposits it would slow the idle down to the point of stalling/hunting/loping and this kit would fix this most of the time.if you want rich,you could try clean your throttle body and idle air motor.then reset/check your idle speed,let the computer relearn the new speed.that may help your problem 

[RICH MUISE]

wow, all kinds of new stuff here. Firstly, I thought the idle was a computer function, I had no idea there was an idle adjustment on the throttle body. second...idle air motor??? what is that all about and where is it?
I may have misspoke or wasn't clear about my idle issue....it doesn't make any difference what the engine temp is...hot or cold, it'll idle fine for about a minute at about 1k rpm then drop the rpm down to about 600. that's when the loping starts. So, with that said, and keeping in mind I can drive down the street at 30mph in second gear without my foot on the gas at the 1k idle speed, I'm not sure adjusting the idle is going to help or be something I want to do. I need to find out why it is dropping to the 600 after that minute or so. Just sounds to me like something beyond or other than an idle speed adjustment.