My left ( drivers side ) door lock never worked, I finally dig into the problem and the tail piece is missing. If someone has an extra or a link to a supplier I would would appreciate it much.
Looked, but couldn't find the ones I remembered seeing some years back that wereaftermarket..maybe machined and welded?
Concourse has a NOS left side for 60 bucks. Don't ya hate that??
I didn't check Concourse but that seems like a rip off to me :005:
Yep...about 12 times the price of new ones for 55-56
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2018-07-19 06:52
Yep...about 12 times the price of new ones for 55-56
It must be gold plated :003:
I have the complete door handle to door lock piece for a drivers side 300 2 door but I don't see any piece that looks like that.
what year and body style is this for?
He's looking for one for his Ranchero, but I do believe any model will work for him except the "station wagon". I can't verify this, but I think when you read that wagons are different (longer I believe), the only thing that makes sense to me would be the Country Squire model not working because the key lock is in the "wood".
Bos...........the part he is looking for is not a part of the latch, it is attached to the outside key lock. It attaches on the back of the tumbler housing and goes to the latch
I just wanted to mention that the left and right tail pieces look very similar or identical, but in fact they are not and will not function correctly if switched. Ask me how I know.
Quote from: BBoswell on 2018-07-22 21:58
I have the complete door handle to door lock piece for a drivers side 300 2 door but I don't see any piece that looks like that.
The piece goes into the end of the keyed lock cylinder. It fits between the cylinder and the door latch.
I believe Rich is right, works on Ranchero, Customs etc but not wagons..
Wagons no different than Ranchero or Custom (I don't know about woody). I used salvaged Custom piece in my wagon doors.
Quote from: gasman826 on 2018-07-23 07:02
Wagons no different than Ranchero or Custom (I don't know about woody). I used salvaged Custom piece in my wagon doors.
Thats strange, my friends wagon, it's a 4 door Ranch no wood and we compared them and they are longer then mine?
Oh yea! The kicker is that there is more than one size. I had several that were all from Customs and a few were different length. Think this has been mentioned in other posts.
It sure gets confusing, I was thinking maybe 4 door vs 2 door models?????
Later today I will go measure the lock/striker location 4 door wagon vs my ranchero.
When I did mine with tails I had found at a swap meet, the tailpiece on the driver's door was a tad too short, which would be strange in itself since the Customs are suppose to be the shortest. However, I was using a 57 Mercury nos door latch modified to work on my Ford, so I contributed the "short" tailpiece to the fact I was not using a Ford latch.
There is a simple easy fix to use tails that are just a tad too short. my tailpiece reached the latch, but was not long enough to actually go thru it. I found the solution in my household plumbing box. The clear 1/4" tubing you use to plumb your refrigerator's icemaker uses a brass shouldered sleeve that fits in the end of the tubing. The id of that sleeve will slip over the legs on the cast tailpiece, and the OD of the sleeve is a thumb press into the hole on the latch that the tailpiece passes thru.
Rich I remember reading that in another post you had in the past. I think the shorter versions are for Tbirds. I may end up doing something like that.
When I got the ranchero who ever reassembled the locks after paint had them in backwards, left on right and right on left, so the cover flipped the wrong way and the locks didn't work :005:. After I took it apart I found the left cylinder on the right side didn't have the tail piece I've put off this project for 5 years knowing it would open a can of worms..
The Thunderbird levers are reproduced. Because of Rich's post from the past, I have kept every lever I encountered. This past winter, I rebuilt the doors in the Raunch Wagon and serviced the locks. The left door lock never worked since I've owned. The lever was missing. I went through my door parts stash and found levers. I test fit the locks and levers in the wagon doors. I sent my spare Custom doors to the artist doing the door art. When I got the Custom doors back, they were installed using the same locks and levers that I had mocked up in the wagon doors. I don't want to sound like an ass but I've felt like an ass for not offering parts to a club member. When I finished the door rebuild, I boxed up all the door stuff and it went to the sea box at the farm. A week ago, I nearly emptied the sea box to get to a project stopping part (of course it was in the nose of a 40' sea box). Even on a cloudy day, the sea box is an oven. I about made myself sick unloading and reloading and of course the unneeded door parts box went clear in the front. I'll dig one out for you but not until fall and cooler weather. Best I can do for now.
Quote from: gasman826 on 2018-07-23 11:16
The Thunderbird levers are reproduced. Because of Rich's post from the past, I have kept every lever I encountered. This past winter, I rebuilt the doors in the Raunch Wagon and serviced the locks. The left door lock never worked since I've owned. The lever was missing. I went through my door parts stash and found levers. I test fit the locks and levers in the wagon doors. I sent my spare Custom doors to the artist doing the door art. When I got the Custom doors back, they were installed using the same locks and levers that I had mocked up in the wagon doors. I don't want to sound like an ass but I've felt like an ass for not offering parts to a club member. When I finished the door rebuild, I boxed up all the door stuff and it went to the sea box at the farm. A week ago, I nearly emptied the sea box to get to a project stopping part (of course it was in the nose of a 40' sea box). Even on a cloudy day, the sea box is an oven. I about made myself sick unloading and reloading and of course the unneeded door parts box went clear in the front. I'll dig one out for you but not until fall and cooler weather. Best I can do for now.
Thank you so much. I really feel bad putting anyone through that much effort and can't express how much I appreciate it.
And like a dumb ass I should have measured the right side one before I finished that door but I forgot :005:
Hahahaaaaaaaa...........OK Gary, you smoked me out. I thought maybe I had one from that door I got at Roger's in Kansas when I didn't think I could fix mine after I crunched a building with my car. I just went out and checked after reading your post, because I too was feeling bad about maybe having a part that Jim needed, and I have it.....it's one of those parts that are so hard to find you like to keep a spare just in case, but hey, friends are friends.
Mine is even off a Ranchero.
Jim.....sometimes the levers are missing because the cast pocket on the back of the key cylinder breaks, so I'll send the whole cylinder assy just in case yours turns out to be broken.....you can polish it up and have it rekeyed to fit your existing keys. Did you check the bottom of your door, btw? If the retaining pocket breaks, that lever would just fall out.
Jim pm me your mailing address. Anything else you need?
I hope this information helps. There are actually 4 different door lock tail pieces or as Ford calls them, Lever - Door lock operating. The 1955-1957 Thunderbird uses Part number B5S 4021971-A for both sides. This is the only application in these years that does not have a left and a right.
For 1957 and 1958, model 51A (Skyliner), 63A (Fairlane 500 Club Victoria) 63B (Fairlane Club Victoria) 64A (Fairlane Club Sedan) 64B (Fairlane 500 Club Sedan) 76B (Fairlane 500 Convertible Coupe) All these use part number B7A 6421970-A for the right and B7A 6421971-A for the left.
For 1957 and 1958, models 57A (Fairlane 500 Town Victoria) 57B (Fairlane Town Victoria) 58A (Fairlane Town Sedan) 58B (Fairlane 500 Town Sedan) 59A (Tudor Ranch Wagon) 59B (Tudor Ranch Wagon Del Rio) 66A and 66B (Ranchero) 70A (1957 Custom Tudor Sedan) 70A (1958 Custom 300 Tudor Sedan) 70B (Custom 300 Tudor Sedan) 70D (1957 Custom Business Tudor) 70D (1958 Custom 300 Business Tudor) 73A (1957 Custom Fordor Sedan) 73A (1958 Custom 300 Fordor Sedan) 73B (Custom 300 Fordor Sedan) 78A (Sedan Delivery) 79D (Station Wagon Country Sedan 6 passenger) All these use part number B7A 7021970-A for the right and B7A 7021971-A for the left.
For the following model ONLY for 1957 and 1958, 79E (Station Wagon Country Squire 9 passenger) this model uses part number B7A 7921970-A for the right and B7A 7921971-A for the left.
In 1959, they went back to one part for both left and right for all passenger car models excluding Thunderbird. I hope this information helps.
Great info, thanks for posting. I'll take the liberty of copying it and reposting it in the tech section so it'll be easier to find in the future.
The t-bird info is interesting, and the 4th group being the country squire standing alone certainly makes sense rather than all wagons being classified the same as parts distributors seem to do on this part.
I think the 2nd and 3rd groups is where all the confusion comes in. Seems really strange that different Fairlanes would use different tailpieces, but I think that's probably explaning why in the past guys have ended up with tailpieces slightly different than what they had.
Rich you are an angel and a life saver :003: One lock was broke as you described and missing the tail piece so I had bought a new set of locks. I'll send the PM Thank you so much.
Yes, great info on those pieces, thank you for providing it..
With a big thank you to Rich my problem is solved. And thank you to all the others who contributed offers of help and info.
Turns out that I had almost the same problem as 'hiball' Jim.
See here, post 1 & 11. Went off topic into the alignment issue with the Granada spindles for a bit, but it's all good info.
http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=7579.new#new
After learning from this thread & a couple others I went to finding out why I couldn't lock either door with the key. I discovered that the right door lock was missing it's tail piece. It wasn't laying in the bottom the door either. : ( Now I need a right door tail piece. I should have paid more attention & made a pattern of the tail piece since I think I could make one. Bolt, dremmel, file, small piece of flat steel to bend, drill & shape. Hold that onto the massaged bolt with lock nuts and locktight or weld, solder, or what ever works. A small metal lathe to turn the bolt to shape would be very handy.
I think the only difference between the left & right tail pieces is the direction of these 'flat spots' in relation to the, emm, wing? See the 1st pic. The second pic found later shows that detail a lot better.
(And my whining about my shipping costs.)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/hide.gif)
Kinda sucks that the only 'tail piece' I'd got my hands on for way too long got stuck away without really making good use of her when it was still easy to do. Want another one.
I know only one other guy, (two others here but don't know 'em ... yet), that has any 57s here. He has a wagon & 2 very bad off incomplete Ranchero part cars. If they even have these parts maybe I can luck out.
The thread where Rich & others posted pix with links to Dennis Carpenter's tail pieces & one to Jerrys classic cars where the part is only $6. It's for 1955-56 Ford-1955-57 T-Bird. Didn't see where Jerrys classic cars said left or right but the part number indicates it's a left & I didn't find a right. http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=5082.msg38730#msg38730
Rich, unless your door lock & latch stuff is way different than what I've seen those 'tail pieces' must be upside down in the locks in this pic you posted in that thread. No?
http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5082.0;attach=10898;image
Something else about my door locks that I don't understand is why it about impossible to pull the inside door lock knob back up to unlock the door. In fact almost always totally impossible. They lock and unlock easily with the key. As far as I can tell every thing in the door is in it's correct place. Anyone have any insight on that issue?
Tom.
I'm sure you read through the previous post about there being four different tail pieces, isn't this fun :005:.
After pulling my upside down and backwards locks I had one good lock with no tail piece and one bad lock with a tail piece. I just bought new locks and replaced the missing tail piece with one Rich sent. After hours of standing on my head and using mirrors I finally got it all together and the knobs worked fine so I'm sure what your problem could be..
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2018-08-19 08:52
... isn't this fun :005:.
Oh, yeah, great fun. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/roll.gif)
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2018-08-19 08:52
... After hours of standing on my head and using mirrors I finally got it all together ...
Ha! Along with a little digital camera I used mirrors too. Those cameras have helped me to see into places where I couldn't otherwise see. With the door I set it to flash & a 10 second delay to get it into position.
It would be real tempting to cut another hole on the inside of the door if I really had to work on them a lot.
Considering everything works from the latch assembly there must be something not right there. Does the knob go up and down alright when you use the key?
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2018-08-19 11:39...Does the knob go up and down alright when you use the key?
It does. It's weird on how hard it is to pull up. Sooner or later I'm gonna look at my friends junker parts 'Cheros & or pull the drivers door card & the key lock out of the '58 & look over things in there real good.
Not sure why it's hard to pull up.....I haven't had that problem. I suspect one of the rods is installed wrong.
Also, the pic I posted with the new ebay lock/old one could have been upside down. That picture was before I installed them, and as I mentioned, I had them switched l to r.
Tom, give me some time and I'll go thru my ebay history and see if I can find out who I got them from. Seems I remember he was speciali8zing in lock components.
60 year old grease...maybe. There is also a little crank linkage going through the door just under the inside lock button that might need a little lube. After cleaning and rebuilding the door hinges, window crank and linkages, and door latches, everything works so much easier and nicer...much less effort.
X2, I lubed the hell out of everything I get to, everything is so smooth now.. My inside door handle wasn't returning and I thought the spring was broke but after spraying with WD40 and working it it finally loosen up and started working..
Quote from: RICH MUISE
link=topic=7556.msg65026#msg65026 date=1534782772
Tom, give me some time and I'll go thru my ebay history and see if I can find out who I got them from.
Rich, Don't worry about it, I kinda got my mind set on sometime making one. Will be all steel so it will be "Guaranteed not to rust, bust or collect dust!". :002:
As for the the door lock knobs not pulling back up I started to get suspicious about another posability. Turned out I was
sorta right. The lock knobs that the car came with were these skinny no-knob things. I know couldn't pull up the passenger side. Maybe could on the other side. Anyway, there was some anti-rattle electrical tape wrapped around the knob's stems that stuck up just above the door trim when unlocked. Seemed like I good idea so I did the same thing with these skull head things. A bit thicker too. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/uhoh.gif)
Push the knob down & the high tech anti-rattle device (aka tape) disappears below the trim.
Took one knob off & I can just barely get hold of the threaded stem & pull it up. Duh! (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/shog.gif)
See it bunched up there? (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/roll.gif)
Sometimes ya just gotta laugh.
Ford had a better idea :003:
Ran across this ad a few days ago with a good pic of the door locks with the tail piece lever arms still attached. It shows the position of the the lever arms with the locks in the neutral,(unlocked), position where they need to be when putting the locks back into the doors.
Ad was here, bottom of the page.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=1957+ford&_ssn=mostlyford&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=1957+ford&_sacat=0
You can see that if you put the locks in the wrong door they will be upside down.
I have resolved the "hard to lock" issue by cleaning the latch mechanism with brake cleaner and lubing with graphite lock lube, the spray can type.
Maybe I wasn't as clear as I should have been about my lock knobs not pulling back up. The electrical tape that was put on the hard plastic aftermarket knobs so they wouldn't rattle was hanging up & bunching up under the door window trim when I pushed them down.
When I changed the knobs I think I put the tape on a bit thicker than it had been & just made things worse. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/roll.gif)
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2018-08-20 11:32
Tom, give me some time and I'll go thru my ebay history and see if I can find out who I got them from. Seems I remember he was speciali8zing in lock components.
Quote from: Tom S on 2018-08-20 19:03
Rich, Don't worry about it, I kinda got my mind set on sometime making one.
It aint pretty, & don't have to be, but it works. Still gotta tack weld the nut & lever to the 1/4" bolt/shaft.
Thats just awesome, well done
nicely done, Tom! Keep us posted when you get it installed.
Thanks, Jim & Rich. It's a pretty minor accomplishment but does eliminate one of the niggling irritants. There's some much bigger things I need/want to do to the car. Was somewhat easier to do than it first appeared as there was no need for a lathe. Lucky that I could pull the one from the ragged '58 to model it.
Payin' Dennis Carpenter 43 bucks for such a simple little thing just kinda goes against my grain & I'm sure we all get more satisfaction by doing things ourselves. Now have dimensions & pix if someone else want's to make one.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2018-08-28 07:42
Keep us posted when you get it installed.
I don't think you guys need to see my arc welded spot welds! Get's kinda sloppy sometimes. Came out ok though. Didn't burn the thing up.
I had tested it out in the '58 & it worked good but wanted to test it in the '57 before I tacked the parts in place. And you guys had talked about ones that didn't fit that maybe should have.
It worked real good & was very easy to turn the key. Didn't put the lock retainer clip in for the test runs. I had made the shaft & the 1/8" thick lever arm a bit longer than the one I modeled it on. Thought that might help to get the parts in place. Tacked stuff together, put it in & pushed in the lock retainer clip. Now it was harder to turn the key & that's not good.
Hmm... I think I know the problem & the little camera confirmed it. Very easy to fix that & it all works great now.
Glad it was an easy fix of the lever. I hope I never have to work on the doors again much better things to do with my time. Just trying to reach all the lube points drove me crazy
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2018-08-29 14:06
Glad it was an easy fix of the lever. I hope I never have to work on the doors again much better things to do with my time. Just trying to reach all the lube points drove me crazy
I didn't lube a damn thing! (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/lol.gif)
:( I'm gonna hafta pull those door cars off yet again so I can swap on the door handles from the raggedy '58. Their chrome is a bit better. The driver's side handle on the '57 has some slight pitting & the passenger's side has been hit slightly with somebody's sander.
Apparently you have to move the door latch in order to get the rear screw for the handle out. Can't even get a little short phillip's head insert straight into that screw. Not sure how much else inside the door I have to move or remove to get that latch out of the way. :017: :102:
Maybe I'm not understanding but the last thing I did was tighten the door handle screw, my driver side was loose. There is a small hole in the inner door skin that you can put the screw driver through, I didn't have to remove anything..
What Jim said........you need a LONG screwdriver for the front screw. The rearward screw is in the door jamb, just above the level of the door latch. It may be hidden by the door seal.? (I don't have my door seals on yet, lol)
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2018-08-30 09:45
The rearward screw is in the door jamb, just above the level of the door latch. It may be hidden by the door seal.?
Yes, this rear screw. You don't have even close to a straight shot at it & it's too tight to remove with the screwdriver at that angle without striping it. Well, can't really get the screwdriver to grip it in the first place.
The front screw is easy with the door cards removed.
Even with a tiny 4" pair of vice grips I can't get a grip on the head. I might try to grind down a phillips head insert bit so it's short enough to get between the latch & the screw.
Oh, yeah, when I loosened the latch before I had to use my hand held hammer operated impact driver. The lower left screw was stuck so tight I thought I was gonna strip the head. Almost did. About beat the thing to death before it
finally came loose.
Got it. Easily loosened the screw on both doors. Might have ground a little more than necessary off that bit. Or not. :003:
OK, that one LOL. I replaced mine with allen head.
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2018-08-31 08:49
OK, that one LOL. I replaced mine with allen head.
I'm surprised that you could even get an allen wrench in there! My 1/8" allen doesn't quite fit straight in. The 3/32" does but seems it would be too small for an allen screw that size.
I think I'd use something with a hex head but I'm just gonna stick with the phillips head since I now have a tool that works.
How did you get the phillips head screw out in the first place?
I just checked mine out of curiosity, and mine is a straight shot at the screw with the screwdriver in front of the starwheel instead of on top as you had showed. Maybe a difference in your OEM handles and my Dennis Carpenter repops?
BTW, your starwheel pivot/pivot hole looks pretty tight compared to most. If mine was that good, I wouldn't have spent 4 years looking for a nos latch assembly.
Mine went in on an angle about where you have the yellow line drawn in your picture. I used an allen head and small flat washer and used a long T handle type allen wrench to install it..
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2018-08-31 13:25
I just checked mine out of curiosity, and mine is a straight shot at the screw with the screwdriver in front of the starwheel instead of on top as you had showed. Maybe a difference in your OEM handles and my Dennis Carpenter repops?
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/worthlesslespixPOST.gif)
That's weird. Seems like you would have to drill another hole for that to work. I'd like to see it.
And then Jim says he used a long T handle type allen wrench on his. Unless it was one of those that have tapered flats at their ends so they can work at an angle I don't see how he could do that. Can't recall what they call them.
Jim, again, how did you get the phillips head screw out in the first place?
Could you guys believe that you both have doors that are that different from my both my '57 & '58?
I sure wouldn't think so. :017:
Tom, I used about the same angle that Rich described, really wasn't a problem. I'll try to get a picture of the allen head I put in tomorrow morning if my old camera will cooperate, it has a mind of its own LOL..
Edit: something more like this angle.
My camera is malfunctioning with the date info, so once I take a picture, it takes me forever to find it once I transfer it to the computer, I literally have to search thru hundreds and hundreds of pics because it's not consistent even with the wrong dates. If I take a group of pics, like at a show, the computer scatters them all over because of the faulty dates.
Nice photoshop work on Tom's pic, Jim. Yep, mine is just like you're showing.
Tom, I don't remember how the handle is aligned, maybe there's enough slop to make a difference in how that screw is aligned. In other words, maybe there's enough location variation/slop so that if you loosened the screws and pushed the handle forward, it would use the screw hole as a pivot point and rotate the screw head at the angle we have on ours.?
Yes Tom, the pivot hole in the starwheel cover/shield gets worn out and elongated so it lets the starwheel kinda flop around which in turn lets the door move when you hit a bump, which in turn probably wears the hole out even more. Yours appears in the pic to be worn just a smidge at the bottom of the hole. I've seen used latches advertised on ebay that said "tight", but looking at the pics showed where the cover/shield had been centerpunched next to the hole in a halfassed attempt to tighten the hole.
There shouldn't be a load pressure on the starwheel gear itself when the door is closed, as there is a bearing/or shaft surface on the backside of the star that rides up on the outer plate in the striker plate assembly mounted on the doorjamb. The striker plate is suppose to lift the door about 1/16 as that bearing rides up on the plate.This keeps some of the weight of the door from loading up on the starwheel, which in turn lets the whole system work easily. That design though is what I think eventually wears the hole out.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2018-08-31 23:56
...variation/slop ... loosened screws ... pivot point ..rotate
the angle ...
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/worthlesslespixPOST.gif)
Ok, ok, just kiddin'. :002:
Hmm, yeah, I see what yer sayin'. Come to think of it I haven't even looked at the screws in the right doors yet. Maybe they're different. Both the left doors were like that though.
Yeah, Jim did good on that P-chop. That stuff can often take me a very long time with the program I use. An old version of ArcSoft PhotoImpression. I get carried away & keep adding or changing little details Done quite a few. People like 'em. Except for maybe the people getting lampooned. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/lol.gif)
Jim, don't bother about a pic on my account.
I've been following this thread and it prompted me to dig through the boxes of parts that my car came in, to find the door locks and see if in fact, I have the tail pieces. I DO!!!
In looking at the tail pieces, one of them is stamped with what I read here on the Forum, in another post, as the Key Code. My question is.........should a local locksmith be able to cut a key from that 61 year old code? Or, is there someone here on the Forum that cuts keys from the code. All of this assumes that I'm correct about the code.
John
Tom, that was a quick 5 minute chop, A good one would take about 30 minutes. I use GIMP, and it's free :003:
John, I didn't see any key code on mine, just a small L and R. I don't know about locksmiths, I put in new locks.
I took a few pictures of the allen head screw I used and they all came out bad, I couldn't shut off the flash or get the macro to work :005: Then when I downloaded them it down loaded about 100 other pictures I had deleted off the camera last year. go figure that one????