Well, I thought I would start a thread about my station wagon build. It will be (for now) a budget driver. I just want to get her on the road again and be safe, I will do a full resto on her after I retire. I picked her up today and found a few surprises that I did not know about when I saw her the first time. First thing that I noticed, she has no drive shaft🙄. Not a big deal but it is just another thing I didn?t want to buy right now. I think the tank is toast as well, but I will know more when I drop it. ?Good news? is that the driver side rear wheel is leaking brake fluid.
In Bakersfield for the night and hopefully home tomorrow to unload her and the engine. Which I found out is a 75. It will need a dizzy and headers or manifolds. The headliner is shot and I cannot close the driver side window so it is now shredded.
BUT, I will have the daughter helping me out from time to time so she can learn basic mechanical skills. And she will inherit the car someday, plus once she hears the engine fire up she will be all over her👍. Still have about five hours to go tomorrow and then about two hours to offload and park her.
Here are few pics for now.
Mike
Very nice start! Looks solid with the "normal" wear and tear for an abandoned vehicle. Reminds me of a 2drht I got out of TX. Seats eaten up, home to hundreds of black widow and wolf spiders (they don't care for a shop vac) and half the states tumble weeds!
Just remember it is all fun.
Yes it will be fun-if not an adventure. I just hope I did not drag any critters home😱. I will periodically add post and pics as I move through the process. I?ll take awhile though. I did notice some dents facing backwards on the rear floor pans????????? Always makes you wonder about it previous life and what happened to her.
Mike
Got home and in her new garage. You know, she was happy to go in as she flew off the car transporter. 🚀. I will start working on her this week-cleaning that is.
Mike
Is it a California car? Are you going north or south from Bakersfield? I am in the middle of a 57 Country Sedan project as well and would love to keep up what you are doing. I have some extra parts as well. Sorry, no extra drive shaft! I'm in No. Cal so if you're close that would be great. Some of my floor pans have been replaced before I bought it and I am curious how to install the back seats. Keep the pics coming.
Hi Ken, I actually live in Walnut Creek now where do you live. I may need a few extra parts so I will PM you.
Sorry going to praise the wife here-she and the daughter flew with to Vegas to pick up the car on Sat and drive back on Sunday. I have the bestest wife out there. Then she bought me a sales brochure from 1957 about the station wagons!!!
I will definitely post more pics as they help me understand what people are talking about. So I assume other people use them the same way. I did notice some rather strange dents in the floor pans. They are in the rear of the passenger portion. So I am trying to figure out they managed to do that🤔🤔🤔. But I can?t wait to get back over there and start cleaning her up!
Mike
Maybe the dents came from the driveshaft breaking a U joint and flying around..
what Jim said.
Mike, you probably couldn't care less about the original drive shaft. You will want to have a NEW one made once you figure out your drive train/trans/ trans X-member.
This is how mine ended. :003:
(https://up.picr.de/40810289xy.jpg)
(https://up.picr.de/40810291bg.jpg)
Ouch😱
Quote from: djfordmanjack on 2021-03-22 09:40
what Jim said.
Mike, you probably couldn't care less about the original drive shaft. You will want to have a NEW one made once you figure out your drive train/trans/ trans X-member.
This is how mine ended. :003:
How in the world did you do that ? 5000 rpm and then dropping it into gear :003:
Was riding with a friend in a 66 ford when the front u joint broke. Beat the heck out of the floor boards before it decided to fold up under the car. Broke one of the u bolts on the rear joint and then it left the car. It managed to take the barking brake cables, part of the exhaust and ripped off the rear brake hose going from the body to the rear axle all in a matter of seconds. All of this happened going up a steep hill. As if that wasn't enough excitement we suddenly realised that with no brakes and no driveshaft so parking gear was useless we were going to take a fast ride down this hill backwards. Luckily there were no cars behind us and somehow we managed to stay on the road. I still drive past that spot and think why didn't we just steer into the ditch when we started backwards. It was shallow and we would have just ended up in a field.
woah, that is a scary incident !!!
Now I am not going to entertain you guys with my full story, and I did not stress the drivetrain on purpose. It was part my fault as I did manually shift it into wrong gear while rolling, mostly because of a sloppy, worn out column and gear selector AND a way too heavy aftermarket shifter that some PO had 'improved' the car with. What people do to their cars is often dangerous and I have had several cars that came with serious problems with Automatic gear selectors, linkages, cables aso.
back to this topic, I never really liked the stepped design of the og 57 driveshaft. this is mostly due to the very low floorboard/ tunnel and rear seating in our cars (factory design). When you study the pics of the broken drive shaft, you can actually see where counterweights were spotwelded or heat had been applied during previous balancing. also a crack had developed long before, as could be seen by rusted areas upon inspection.
So my tip for people using the og 57 driveshaft would be at minimum inspect for visible cracks, better magnaflux or use penetrating fluid and developer.
I buildt a sturdy replacement for the DR. So far the oem driveshaft in the CS has held up well. it also has the factory hp engine and trans and the car hasn't been lowered so much. Obviously the Del Rio had been treated and maintained poorly before that happened.
Quote from: 1930artdeco on 2021-03-21 23:36
Hi Ken, I actually live in Walnut Creek now where do you live. I may need a few extra parts so I will PM you.
Sorry going to praise the wife here-she and the daughter flew with to Vegas to pick up the car on Sat and drive back on Sunday. I have the bestest wife out there. Then she bought me a sales brochure from 1957 about the station wagons!!!
I will definitely post more pics as they help me understand what people are talking about. So I assume other people use them the same way. I did notice some rather strange dents in the floor pans. They are in the rear of the passenger portion. So I am trying to figure out they managed to do that🤔🤔🤔. But I can?t wait to get back over there and start cleaning her up!
Mike
I'm in Sacramento. Yep, PM me and I'll give you my phone number. Here is a pic of the dash I just finished. I do have extra clocks, radio (not in great shape), etc. I may not be in much better shape that what you have but we can talk.
Did some more poking around the car today finally. Got her up on stands so I could see what is going on underneath and I wasn?t disappointed. Found some more cancer, big dents in the passenger foot wells, two bullet holes (exiting through the RR passenger foot well)🤔, and rock hard rubber everywhere. BUT, I did find original vinyl seat coverings on the seats👍, and the tailgate SS trim🎉👍. So, Saturday will begin the cleaning process with the shop vac and wiping surfaces down and maybe chiseling away the concrete that is covering everything underneath.
Mike
Inquiring minds want/need to know...the story behind the bullet holes... :evil6:
I am guessing that they went 4 wheeling as indicated by the dents and maybe busted the driveshaft and at the same time two shots went off in the back seat.
Mike
With that theory...gotta hope they still had 10 toes! LOL!!!
Tons of work to do. As I was wisely directed, bag and tag it all even if you don't think you will still use it. I look forward to seeing it.
1st day of cleaning update:
Well we started vacuuming today and went from back to front. Took out a several pounds of dirt, rocks and sand, plus the gas tank. And there was still gas in it :icon_scratch:and boy did it stink to high heaven. As far as I can tell it is still a good tank-the sending unit I will have to take apart and clean thoroughly and hope it still works. Took out the seats and ripped out the carpeting, horse hair insulation, floor mats and that is where it went straight down hill-fast. After I saw all of the rust flakes I knew I was doomed and I am. Both front floor pans need to be replaced and maybe the pass rear as well.
Bullet update: I found another hole behind the driver seat, and a large caliber bullet in the glove box, plus two shotgun shells. We also found some small kids toys (for a boy and a girl), plus a previous owners registration tag from 1976. and I found out it had a T&C radio in her, so that makes two options!
But I have some questions for the gurus:
1) How do I get the back seat hold down bolts out? They are body mount bolts and appear to be a bolt within a sleeve and the sleeve rotates so I cant get the bolt out. And the rubber hockey pucks are flat as a pancake and hard as a rock.
2) Is there a way to tell if the car came with A/C from the dealer? I have some holes I cannot ID. There are two round holes about 1.5" ID right next to each other on the firewall and then there are two small holes on either side of the tranny tunnel?
3) What type of 9" do I have? I rotated the pass. wheel and the other did not move. However, I rotated both wheels and the pinion yoke did rotate.
I will put more pic in another post.
Thanks,
Mike
more pics.....Oh does anyone want to buy an FE short block-I have one as one head is toast. So I am going to sell it for parts.
Mike
Guess it wasn't bullet proof eh? LOL!!! :fripper:
Where are you again? How much for the FE? I have heads...more than blocks... :003: (I need my head checked buying another FE...but...)
I live in Walnut Creek, ca. How about $300? I don?t how much FE?s really
Go for.
Mike
This something I found on the internet.
Determining a Rear Axle Ratio of a Non-Posi Rear
Jack one wheel off the ground, put the transmission in neutral and take the parking break off. ***Be sure to use jack stands under the axle for safety precaution***
Mark the wheel and the drive shaft with chalk or masking tape.
Turn the wheel TWO revolutions and count the number of driveshaft turns.
The number of driveshaft rotations will help you determine your rear axle ratio. For example, if it turned 3 and a half times, it's a 3.50:1 ratio. If it turned 4 and a quarter times, it's a 4.25:1 ratio.
For better accuracy, turn the wheel 20 times and divide by 2 for your rear axle ratio.
If you are unsure whether you have a Posi Rear or not
Jack both wheels off the ground and turn one wheel.
If the opposite wheel turns the same direction or doesn't turn at all, then the rear axle is posi or limited slip.
If the opposite wheel turns the opposite direction, then it's probably an open rear axle (non-posi).
Determining a Rear Axle Ratio of a Posi Rear
Safety first! Chock the front tires so your car won't slide off the jack stands then raise the rear of the car with a hydraulic floor jack and place heavy duty jack stands on either side of the rear axle housing. Lower the car onto the jack stands.
Turn the driver's side tire a quarter turn counterclockwise to remove the slack in the drivetrain.
With a piece of chalk or masking (painters) tape make about a 6" line along the driveshaft that can be easily seen from the side of the car and make another mark on the tire. It's good to make this mark in a place that is easy to line up, like the edge of the wheel well or the 12 o'clock position.
Rotate the tire counterclockwise while counting the number of times the driveshaft rotates until the tire has completed one complete turn. (You may need a helper if you can't rotate the tire and see the driveshaft at the same time.) Be as accurate as possible.
The number of driveshaft rotations will help you determine your rear axle ratio. For example, if it turned 3 and a half times, it's a 3.50:1 ratio. If it turned 4 and a quarter times, it's a 4.25:1 ratio.
Remove the tape/marks from the driveshaft and tire, raise the rear tires again and remove the jack stands before lowering your car back to the ground. Remove the chocks from the front tires.
Quote from: 1930artdeco on 2021-03-27 23:13
I live in Walnut Creek, ca. How about $300? I don?t how much FE?s really
Go for.
Mike
Honestly probably a decent price given the lack of knowledge about the condition. I'm not sure what the shipping cost would be. Will be heading west in mid-June...but going via I-90...Alvin has been patiently waiting for me to pick up my hood since '19 when I started my back and forth trips on my apartment bldg. Between moving and snow...been a challenge.
I have no idea what the charge would be, or who would ship it.
Where is Walnut Creek in relation to say San Diego? I'll be there in late August.
Mustang, I am about an hour east of SF. I am now either going back to a Y block or a small block and AOD. I like the originality of the Y but the tranny choices/HP of a small block.
GLR-thank you for the info about the diff. I will get underneath and look a little closer at it today. This project is getting bigger by the minute. And is more than I wanted but one step at a time and she will turn out just fine.
Mike
My daughter lives in Sacramento...near the airport up north...we will probably head that way once we are done with SD.
I had to use a grinder and ground the head of the bolt off. My interior was out of the car so I didn't have to worry about sparks. If you are tearing out your headliner make sure you keep the bows in the right order. They don't interchange and once you have them out they look the same. On my sedan one end of each bow is painted a different color. The color and location of each bow is listed in the service manual.
(https://i.imgur.com/LElIA70.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eeSQW13.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QJ6i0pF.jpg)
Thanks GLR, looks like I will Jack the body up just enough to replace the rubber hockey pucks. Hope I dont have to though.
Mike
There should be a tag attached to one of the differential studs with the gear ratio.
Probably 3.10 or 3.56 ratio.
No factory limited slip rears until 1959.
POR-15 Sells a kit to fix floorpans you might check out.
I'd buy a body mount kit from Dennis Carpenter and replace all of them. Too many problems with junk mounts.
A Y-Block or FE are drop ins, Small block is a lot more work for no real gain.
Ron.
Mike, not that bad, don't worry. Everybody here has to repair these things on a car that has been off the road for decades.
The rubber doughnut is wedged between 2 large dished washers and the frame bracket. then a smaller hex bolt threads in from above and holds them together. that short hex bolt has internal threads for the body ( bench seat) bolt. now it's all rusted together solid and when you want to unbolt, the large washers and threaded insert bolt won't come off, because the rubber doughnut has sagged and there is no friction. you need a pair of welding pliers and try to grab either one of the washers or insert nut (on lower washer). hopefully the pliers will lock against the frame or body crossmembers. that, and a good dose of WD40 or rust penetrating fluid should get the bolts out or shear them off. Only do the most important body mounts, or it will take you a long time to undo all 16 (or 20?) of them ! Just leave them be for now (except for bench seat bolts)! jmho.
Be sure you save all the old washers until you get the new body mounts installed. Just in case your kit is short on some of the required items. The four special washers and the complete rear body support items were missing from my kit.
Terry, I believe the special shim washers are not included in the kit anyways ( missing also in my kit). So are the rear mounts, which actually they are just thick squarish rubber pads on a wagon or Ranchero. You can cut them from stock rubber sheet.
Another update. Well managed to get the left front drum off :sad5:. I don't know how people do some things. But I pulled it off and there was no outer bearing in the hub and the inner race had big score in it. Well found the outer bearing still stuck to the spindle-hope I can still use it. All the springs were broken :icon_scratch:, but the shoes were still good along with the rubber boots on the wheel cylinders. The drum looks like it just needs a turn and it should be good to go. I could get the left rear drum off as it is stuck on something. Found more cancer in the pass wheel inner quarter panel-I am hoping EMS will have something I can use.
But at least I know what I am up against and can start getting parts together.
Mike
Bought a kit from Carpenter's place. Got lucky they had a couple of them in stock. Sometimes you order and have to wait for awhile to get them. I am replacing all of mine, but then I officiated in the divorce of my body from the frame.
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Hate to be the one to say it...but...I would replace ALL of the brake components other than he drums if they can be turned. Safety being the reason. No idea how old the springs are or the shoes. They might appear to be serviceable...but could cause you some serious grief when you least expect it. JMHO.
Oh yeah, total brake rebuild is on the list of things to do. I will take off the front sheet metal and work the steering, suspension, brakes and cowl drains all in one fell swoop. The tank goes in this week to get boiled out. Then in another few weeks the front will get tackled.
Mike
Quote from: 1930artdeco on 2021-03-28 08:28
Mustang, I am about an hour east of SF. I am now either going back to a Y block or a small block and AOD. I like the originality of the Y but the tranny choices/HP of a small block.
GLR-thank you for the info about the diff. I will get underneath and look a little closer at it today. This project is getting bigger by the minute. And is more than I wanted but one step at a time and she will turn out just fine.
Mike
I've got a completely rebuilt Y block and trans that I may not use. I believe I have most of the paperwork on the engine and trans to show. It doesn't not have a carburetor, the block off for the engine hoist is still on it. All other parts are there.
Ken
Ken, I will PM you.
Mike
On post #18, it was asked if there is a way to tell if your car was a factory ac car. I understand that the inside mouldings at the windshield base are different from non ac cars. Also, the heater controls were different. I'm not real knowledgeable about such things. From the location of the holes along the sides of the trans tunnel, I would think possibly an aftermarket ac was installed, one of those under dash units. Please, if I'm wrong someone correct me.
As Terry said the lower windshield molding are different, that have a bunch of little louvers or vents molded into them, easy to spot. But the controls are most obvious,. There is picture of the lower molding vents on here if you search.
craigslist to the rescue! I am going to look a core 390 tomorrow-same year and out of a truck as well. It is complete so I will cobble together one from two. :burnout: I also pulled the pass front wheel off to look at the brakes on that side. Same mess as on the driver side. I have absolutely no idea how the P.O. did that. I will try and get the rear drums this weekend. I tried to get a 3rd party to do the registration-nope. I am required to go to DMV, so getting up very early on Friday and hoping that they don't find anything bad-wish me luck.
Mike
Most hang-on A/C's hoses enter the cowl near the heater, Factory A/C too. The heater blower motor and housing is smaller than the factory a/c parts.
Ron.
UPDATE: I found a core 360/390 to pull parts from and another set of bare heads. So one will go in (unless a 292/312 drops in my lap) and then I will sell off the short block spare. I GOT PLATES!!!! an hour and a half at DMV and I was out. Now onto cleaning more concrete off the suspension and opening up the rear brakes to prep them for rebuild.
Mike
Congrats on getting plates!
This build thread is going to be fun and interesting to watch. Looking forwards to the info and pics when you have them. Enjoy...we sure will! :003: :006:
Sat. update.
I don't know what they did to this poor car but they beat the snot out of her. Finally got driver rear drum off and the brakes are in great shape, minus the worn shoes. The pass rear seams to be wedged onto the studs somehow. She turns freely but does not budge in or out in way shape or form-guess it is big hammer time :003:. Destroyed the front door panels to get them off as I need to get into the doors for repairs and then sucked out about a pound of dirt and sand from them.
Got underneath to soak all of the front suspension and steering bolts that will have to come off and noticed that there was a large tear in the body right at the 'A' pillar body mount -driver side. Went to the other side and sure enough there was a dent in the support there as well. It looks like the body, frame and bolt are ok and there is no major damage. Starting to source brake parts at the local NAPA store and already found a place to boil out the tank. Oh, I soaked the sending unit in Evaporust and it ate the varnish right off. Wonder if I can do that for the tank :003: :005:.
Questions for this round:
1) A previous owner put speakers in the door and chewed them up. Any damage done there or can I just clean it up and put the panel back on?
2) anyone know the readings on the sending unit? Would like to test it out after I get it cleaned up.
Thanks,
Mike
YIKES! Looks like there was some off-roading activity in the poor girl's past.
I would speculate that someone used the hole in the body support, the one on the body, to put the hook of a tow chain into. Another place people have placed tow hooks is into the frame horn supports. Those sized holes seemed to act like a magnet for the hooks on the end of chains.
My thought too, looks like someone hooked it and pulled or strapped it and tore the metal.
Thanks for the photos and letting us tag along with the repairs. My favorites are the old Ford photos and members sharing photos and updates through their build.
After seeing the quality and creativity from some of these members, it make me realize I need to go back and redo a few things I did on mine.
Well a lot of those 'improvement' type of things like chain hooks and speaker cuts. makes you wonder and wanting to cry about some people...literally every bumper on every car I ever bought had some chain hook dimples and forklift dents from lazy or cr*** persons.
What the heck were they thinking type of guys. We've all probably been guilty of doing stupid stuff before though.
Still I am wondering. why are people trying to put speakers in 57 doors, when they will actually only put sound into the bench seat or workers boots. When there is literally tons of space under dash, behind sunvisors, in kick panels, in the original dash speaker location, under hat trays in sedans and so on....you can put speakers in a hundred good places on our cars and there are about 5 or 7 super dumb& awkward areas, that all have received plenty of cutting, drilling and 'improving' ....like the tail gate on wagons f.e. Who would ever put speakers in a place that you want to put stuff on. I am at a loss.
Not a lot done today other than using the grinder to find good metal on the floor pans and rockers. The rockers are good minus some small spots right next to them or cancer holes right next to the kick panels on the pass. side. Tried to get the pass rear drum off-no dice. Heat will probably be the next choice as I think it is rusted together on the face of the axle. I hope.
Mike
I know you've already backed off the shoes but just in case try that before heat. I believe the drums are hard to find if needed.
some early Ford axles may have a countersunk screw to hold the drum in place. maybe somebody drilled and tapped your 9" for such screw(s). also the drum usually has reamed holes for a tight fit on the wheel studs. if somebody has replaced these with OS or longer knurled style, or mabye even if rusted, the drum could be frozen at the weel stud seats.
Ok got the RR drum off by tapping up on it ::) the brakes look normal on both sides of the diff. So, here is to hoping my lock holds on the diff. I tested the sending unit after cleaning it up and here is what I got. Pos lead on the stud and Neg lead on case:
Set at 200 ohms
F= aprrox. 20 ohms
E= approx. 73 ohms
set at 2000 ohms
F=.018 ohms
E=.056 ohms
The difference could have been the way I was holding the leads on the unit. Are these numbers correct? Or do I need to buy a new one?
Mike
Numbers are good.
Well I am in buy parts mode now that I generally know what I am up against. I have most of the brake stuff now but ran up against a snag. My plan is to install a 69 Mustang MC so that I would have a dual chamber just in case something happened to half of the brake system. Well, I was at NAPA and he can get me the MC but he could not find any proportioning valve to match. Did they not use them until disc brakes came along? And if what I have read hear on the forum is correct they don't seem to work that well anyways, I might as well just see if I can rebuild the MC I have.
I also, went looking for a local place to get NiCopp line and found a hydraulic place to buy it. But, I was talking with guy there and he did his 72 Nova is SS braided lines instead of solid lines. Cost wise I think the rubber lines are cheaper I would just have to connect to metal lines at the wheels and MC. Just something else for me to think about.
Where is the best place to buy tie rods? Both inner and outer. Next month I am pulling the front clip out so I can start rebuilding the PS parts and rebuilding the front end. PROGRESS!!!!!!! Albeit slow.
Mike
Don't get tricked into some of the extra street roddery stuff. Just get basics. For the rubber hoses you be fine with the original style. I just order the nicopp from Amazon it was 20.00 for 25ft and the fittings. I would not do the braided flex line just do the hard lines. That's just weird.
And you will spend on a bunch of banjo fittings you don't need. Leave the braided lines for motorcycles.
Also you would be amazed at what you can find in Amazon if you have the part numbers.
For the master you mean the metering valve?
Again if you have a part number you may be able to find it online.
If you are doing a disc swap for the front add the 10# residual cake in the rear line. Also add speed bleeders all around for one man bleeding.
There is a full front end kit a shows up on eBay. Prob the most complete I've seen. Lin the 250-280 range with all the ball joints tiie rod ends and bushings.
This is one I have seen, most likely will buy to redo mine suspension. . Some people have bought parts of the kit. The seller also has a website where different combinations of that kit exist. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Front-End-Suspension-Rebuild-Kit-Inner-Tie-Rods-Fits-1957-1958-Ford-Ranchero-/323673559893?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286
Anyone have a spare hub they sell guy who is down on his luck :003:. One is bad the other looks to be good. I will have to knock everything out to verify. Also will be getting two new from drums as well, the backs can be turned at least one more time.
Mike
She is being really fussy. Took the tank into be boiled out and they were going to charge me $500. And there is no guarantee the tank will be good under all of the shellac. So I am going to fill it with evaporust (it seems to dissolve the shellac) and I?ll it with some sharp rocks and see what happens. I can?t get close enough to see how far up the walls it goes without choking so will assume it goes up a ways. Still buying parts and planning to disassemble things next month.
Mike
On my wife's 59 dodge. We did the Hirch coating. It was a few steps. It even had two 1/4 or bigger holes from the junk yard. I think at the time we did the weld epoxie on those. It held for a very long time. We did the chain inside and now you can do the evaporust.
It was like a milky white hard coating.
https://www.tptools.com/Bill-Hirsch-Automotive-Gas-Tank-Repair-Kit,3277.html?ns_md=CSE&ns_sc=GoogleProducts&ns_cn=GoogleProducts&utm_medium=CSE&utm_source=GoogleProducts&utm_campaign=BH-ARK&gclid=Cj0KCQjwse-DBhC7ARIsAI8YcWIrbNy6uzRgckJx_OnUoubvqHwyUQsNStGhM7zdw9HD1pP3dG0bwN8aAub6EALw_wcB (https://www.tptools.com/Bill-Hirsch-Automotive-Gas-Tank-Repair-Kit,3277.html?ns_md=CSE&ns_sc=GoogleProducts&ns_cn=GoogleProducts&utm_medium=CSE&utm_source=GoogleProducts&utm_campaign=BH-ARK&gclid=Cj0KCQjwse-DBhC7ARIsAI8YcWIrbNy6uzRgckJx_OnUoubvqHwyUQsNStGhM7zdw9HD1pP3dG0bwN8aAub6EALw_wcB)
Thanks for tip Abe. I just need to find a place to order the evaporust so I can use the other stuff.
Mike
Amazon also had the best price for the evaporust . By the gallonwas cheaper than the large amounts. Go figure.
When we did our we used the method in the instructions. No evaporust. I think was something like the cement etching stuff. But look up threads for cleaning gas tanks on the Hamb as it would cost a fortune in evaporust to fill it. You really just need to etch it. Run a chain with bolts attached to it. And make sure to have a string on the end to make it easy to pull out.
Also what you are at it I would recommend to plumb in a return line you can cap it but having one makes it easy to add a fuel return line in can you need to solve vapor lock issues later down the line.
This weekend I going to start dismantling the front end and have a few questions.
1) How do I get the shocks out? I know how to take off the nuts but do I need to compress the arms and then remove them and do they come out the top or bottom? The manual is not very specific.
2) What is the best way to remove the springs? I will have to get a compressor obviously, I read that the ball joints have to come off and that is going to be hard. I think they are original and still have the rivets and not bolts. Everything is getting replaced anyways
3) I saw in one of the catalogues that I can buy just the rubber dust boot for the tie rods. Does that mean they were designed to be rebuilt-assuming they are still tight and greased?
I am going to start from the outside and work my way in. Backing plates, springs, spindles, A arms (keeping the shims in the correct position and amount) and then the tie rods and steering parts. Sound about right?
Thanks,
Mike
Shocks come out the bottom after removing the top nut and the two cap screws holding the lower bshg. cross pin. Springs will just about fall out after releasing the lower ball joint, with a splitter or large hammer. Leave nut loosened on stud. Be sure a arm is supported with a jack that can be lowered to safely extract the spring. If the tie rod ends are good just replace the boots which help keep dirt out. Be sure control arm bushings and shafts are centered. A heavier sway bar is also a good idea as are heavy duty shocks as possible. Just because they say H.D. and gas charged doesn't make it so.
You may need to vise grip the upper shock shaft to keep it from spinning if the nut doesn't come off.
FYI most all the front end work is much easier if you take the whole front end off. Not sure you have done that yet.
Especially if you were going to pull the engine.
Thanks for the tips as I have not looked super closely at the shocks yet. I have a bottle jack that I am going to put under the lower A arm to lower things down. I do have to take the front end off to get to the cowl drains. Unfortunately, I put her up on stands and took things apart before I realized that I had to do that. I am going to put KYB all the way around, I will look into a stiffer sway bar as well.
Mike
You don't have to have to take the front end off to get to the cowl drains.
This is what I did.
http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=3895.msg65607#msg65607
Don't recommend a bottle jack as a arm must come down almost vertical to remove spring. Use a floor jack with wheels if possible. Memory is failing, if control arm bushings are rubber rather than threaded steel don't tighten bolts until full weight is on the ground. Don't forget the idler arm.
Thanks Tom, when I get back in her wheels I poke around to match you pics up with the car.
Mike
I asked Tom S about his cowl drain method to make sure I understood it correctly. Here is our conversation for everyone else. I probably should have asked here in the first place-my fault.
Hi Tom,
Question on the cowl drains. First off I have not really look to closely at them from the engine compartment as I have been focusing on the front end/brakes. But, if I understand your photos correctly, you reach in between the fender and the cowl with the plastic elbow and push it through the hole in the side wall. Is this correct? Then you run the clear drain line after the steering box/wheel well in the corner?
Thanks,
Mike
Yes, that's about it. If I recall, I had to stick something in the end of the large, 1-1/4" plastic tubing & wiggle it around to expand it a bit first in order to get it on the plastic elbow. Maybe warm it up a little too. It's a very tight fit, didn't need a clamp. You might consider the small screw-in piece that I put in the larger elbow & the 1/2" tubing as optional. I thing the factory just let the drain dump down the side of the cowl/fender well.
BTW, Instead of a private message I think it's much better to post questions about something in a thread in the thread itself. That way anyone else that has the same kind of questions gets the answer.
Today's update-not much. I dropped the outer tie rods as I could not get a decent whack at the inners. So I am going to take the whole thing down and separate them out of the car. I have decided to just replace the left spindle at this point as that bearing race and washer are frozen to it. Tried to get the shocks out and the stud started to just spin so I will just cut the nut off of both of them and then remove them. Got in some front hubs and drums from a yard, I am hopeful they can be turned. If not then it is off to China for new ones.
I poured a gallon of laquer thinner in the tank as an experiment. But I think I will just buy a new one as the shellac and/or rust go all of the way up the sides. Hey it's only money right? On the springs, do I need a compressor to remove them if I break both ball joints loos and then lower the lower arm on a jack? Will that take all of the energy out of it? How do I get the PS control valve out? I pulled the pin and loosened the nut and was hitting it up, but the valve won't budge.
Thanks,
Mike
When I did my 300 the tank looked like new on the outside but was solid rust on the inside. I purchased a tank from Auto City Classic of Isanti, MN. I think I paid about $130 at that time now they are over $200. They have them for the station wagon/ranchero but they are not cheap.
When I did my ball joints I purchased a cheap spring compressor. I used it on one side but it would not stay in position and I was afraid it would let go of the spring. The other side I used a floor jack. I ran a piece of chain down the inside of the spring and fastened it together incase the jack slipped the spring would not go flying.
How did the tank fit?
I haven't done the tank on my 57, yet. I have done a tank on a goldwing using electrolysis. A negative charge to a sacrificial anode and a positive charge to the tank. I used salt water as a solution and waited. after a few hours I removed the charges and drained the tank. A quick rinse with a small amount of acid purchased from a pool and spa supply followed by another rinse of a pint of MEK. The tank was clean, dry and unprotected from surface rust. I had the tank lined but some say that rinsing it again, this time with wd 40 would have prevented surface rust.
It was one heck of a job and would be compounded by the size of the 57's tank.
The tank fit great. I did put a coat of silver paint on it before I installed it just for more protection. I am lucky to have them only a couple hours away so I just drove over and picked up the tank and windshield at the same time. The tank for the wagon is different than the custom. I reused my sending unit without any problem. I did solder a wire to the sending unit to use for a ground. I was concerned I wouldn't have a good ground with new rubber between the tank and mounting straps, insulating paper above the tank and the whole underside of the car having several coats of chassis saver.
I have t check yet, but I thought I saw paper/plastic sleeves that go around the tank straps? What do you mean by insulating paper on top of the tank?
Mike
There is a rubber strip that goes between the tank and the strap. They are available from Auto City Classic or I am sure you could make them. There was a black paper between the top of the tank and the body on my car. I think it was to keep the tank from rubbing on the trunk floor and making noise. I used heavy tar paper because the old paper fell apart.
I had to replace the ones in the Bronco...and didn't feel like driving 10 miles into town. Took an old bicycle tire tube...slit in to a single length of flat rubber...then cut it to length needed for the tank straps...and viola' done! Still on there over 25 years later. Back yard mechanickin' at it's finest! :003:
Well I got a few things done today and got stymied by a few things. First off, I got the shocks and sway bar out. I poured about a 1/4 cup of red tranny fluid out of the PS pump reservoir so I am hoping that means the internals will all be good still.
The bad, how the bloody hell do you get the PS valve off? It is only held on by the pitman arm but I can't seem to get her to budge, short of a BFH and I can't get a decent whack at the ball stud. I am also trying to get the idler arm bracket off the frame. I got the two bolts off but the last bolt that goes through the frame got torqed on by someone, so hard it mashed in the frame under the bolt head :icon_scratch:.
Next up is get the springs out in two weeks and then lube the snot out of the upper and lower A arm bushings.
Mike
Quote from: 1930artdeco on 2021-04-27 20:43... how the bloody hell do you get the PS valve off? It is only held on by the pitman arm but I can't seem to get her to budge...
I don't have one to look at so .....
If what you're saying means that you want to remove a tapered rod end stud from it's female seat you might try it like this ... if you can get at it like this.
Or back up the side opposite of where you hit with some kind of heavy dolly, real big ball peen hammer head, big-ass rock, etc.
Tom,
I have the nut loose and moved it out so that I could whack it and not the threads with a 5lb sledge. But I could not get any real good whacks at it. The manual says not to hit the valve body as damage may result, which is why I was concentrating on just the stud. Right now I have her soaking with kroil. Would a tie rod pickle fork work?
Mike
Tie rod end pickle fork but you most def. ruin the boot every time.
Quote from: 1930artdeco on 2021-04-27 23:46Tom, I have the nut loose and moved it out so that I could whack it and not the threads with a 5lb sledge.
I don't think you're gonna get anywhere by tapping on the end of the stud. Got to beat on what's holding it & that must not be able to move or flex since that will dampen the blow.
This might work & it doesn't damage the boot. I did use one but it was on an old import type car. I still had to beat on what was holding the stud before it would let it loose. It was really stuck in there.
You just leave a deposit & borrow the tool.
https://www.autozone.com/tools-and-equipment/loan-a-tools/steering-and-suspension-loaner-rental-tools?intcmp=LAP:ADT:1:20200320:20200000:BRA:LAT-Suspension
https://www.autozone.com/loan-a-tools/loaner-tie-rod-end-puller/oemtools-tie-rod-end-remover/409628_0_0
X2 to what Tom said in post #77. All other methods will likely damage something you want to reuse. Pickle forks are the greatest for removing tapered studs that are being replaced. The little press like tools usually work on very lightly pressed studs. If the stud is really stuck (which most are), the tool will fail or the stud threads will be damaged and still not get the stud removed. The 'hammer on the side of the pitman arm' is the only and best method that will yield reuseable parts. Unfortunately, there is very little room for error when swinging the hammer. So I have substituted an air hammer with a blunt or hammer head chisel for the hammer. The most stubborn studs will pop right off.
First..it's nice to see you back and posting again, Tom! We've missed your input.
I second the AutoCity Classic recommendation for the gas tank. I got their tank with the Nitern (?) coating. It's held up great for 5+ years now....NO rust. If The new tank straps I also got from them are stainless and came with rubber strips. I replaced the "J' mounting bolts with an eye bolt by putting a sleeve over the bolts that went thru the mounting bracket. I had some leftover snow and ice shield from insulating the cabin, so that's what I stuck on the top of the tank as an insulator. BTW, that Nitern tank coating welds wonderfully if your doing a tank mod for an internal fuel pump.
I have a chance at a drive shaft that came out of a 54 wagon, it came with a stick and a Dana 44 diff. Will it bolt up to my car if I use a stock tranny? I know the slip yoke will have to be changed.
Thanks,
Mike
Me being me...kinda anal about somethings...I'd have one made...no muss...no fuss...faster and while some expense...less aggravation overall. But that's just me.
Apparently, Ford used a different u joint in 54 so I can?t use the drive shaft. Oh well. I have other things to keep me occupied.
Mike
second Hughs opinion ! The og 57 driveshafts were not so great to start with. and even if you could use a 54 it will always be weaker.
A new one will be built to your specs, new yoke, new U joints, and balanced. It should be affordable and will be a perfect fit to your application.
I agree with the others about having one made. It saves a lot of aggravation and possible damage to other parts. I measured for mine and took the dimensions to the shop and had a new shaft a couple of days later that fit. Here is a site that shows how to measure for your shaft.
https://www.dennysdriveshaft.com/how_to_measure.html
I had a new one made when I installed the T85 and later rear end. It's a solid diameter not like the tapered one that was in it when I got the car, close to $400
I have a different drivetrain than you, but I am using an unmodified aluminum driveshaft from the Mark VIII donor car. Unmodified except conversion u-joint available at any part houses...napa, O'Reilly, etc. (Not sure if the input spline on the MKVIII driveshaft matches what your tranny has.)
NAPA has a book that will give you a part number for a joint that will allow mixing and matching yoke to shaft. You need the exact dimensions of both saddles, the shaft and the yoke, cup diameter and spacing, then run down the chart in the book to find a match.
Ok, Tuesday's is spring day. Steps: knock out spring extender blocks, compress spring, break both ball joints loose and then drop the bottom arm down while on the floor jack, remove spring and then loosen the compressor. Repeat with other side. Now, once they are out what is the best way to get the upper and lower arms out? On the upper arms how do you get the shaft out? On the bottom what is the procedure to get the 'pins out?
Thanks,
Mike
thats a pretty much straight forward job, Mike. the upper shaft comes out with the A arm assembly. You just need to unbolt the nuts. make sure to keep track of the alignment shims. ( the shaft can only be removed from A arm upon pressing out the rubber bushings)
the lower bolts you remove the smaller hex bolts from one side and push the pins out to the opposite direction. a good penetrating fluid will make the job easier. Since your wgn came from a very dry climate, I think it's all gonna come apart pretty easily.
you can build a ball joint removal tool from a piece of thickwall tubing some washers and a 1/2 or 9/16 bolt and nut.
Thanks Guenter,
I have sneaky suspicion that she is going to fight me the whole way. She sure is making things tough for me already. I plan to take the shaft bolts out a d replace them with the shims in the same spots and tighten down so they don?t get lost.
As for the upper shaft once it is out, I have to pull the bushings to get it out of the arm-correct? Just was hoping to see if I need a new shaft and bushing or just bushing. I am hoping for the latter.
As for the tool, do you have a build picture on how you built it? These ball joints are toast so don?t care about the boots. But when I do this again in 15 yrs. it will help.
Ordered shocks last night, springs at the end of the month and rebuilt the A arms in June. July, everything goes back together!!!! I hope.
Mike
JFYI, when I rebuilt my front end, I ordered new upper shafts because, well just because new ones were available. Rare Parts was the only supplier I could find at the time..........180.00 EACH!! I had just assumed that over the years the shafts had to be worn out, right? When I got the new shafts I checked them with a mic and they were actually .001 smaller than the original 50 year old ones.
OK, after figuring out how to use a coil spring compressor again I got them compressed only to have the stud spin in the lower ball joint so that the nut won't come off. Of course it didn't help that I whacked it with a sledge to see if I could get the joint to pop loose :003:. So tomorrow I will have to cut the nut off so I can drop the arm. Hey, I am a little slow but I get there :003:.
Here is a wiring question that I just thought about. I am going to order a complete loom from Ron Francis now how do I install it? Do I just take out the instrument cluster and then lay on my back for the rest or do I take out the whole dash rewire and then reinstall? I was hoping to leave the dash wiring alone for now if I can. I know I am getting ahead of myself a bit, but it popped in my head and I thought I would ask.
Mike
If you are buying a full wiring harness...I would bite the bullet...pull the dash and lay it on the work bench, grab a beer (as in A&W or Barq's or what ever your favorite may be :002: ) and do the whole thing in comfort. Laying on the back...not comfy!
Yea...it'll take more time, and be more of a job...but when you're done...you ARE done! JMHO! :003:
FINALLY!!!!!
I got the springs and PS unit out of the car. I now have one more ball joint on each side to take out and I hope the fork holds up. I had to reform it once already, bloody Chinese made tools. I had to destroy one nut on a lower ball joint (probably my fault) and the nut holding the PS ball stud on. So on Sat. I will try and break the other ball joints loose and remove the control arms. I fully expect there to be problems on the lower A arm bushings. SO, what is the best way to get rusted/corroded/dirty bolts and bushings out of the lower arms?
Mike
For the wiring.
Photograph where your existing wiring goes.
Photo the back of the dash.
Bag and tag the bolts for the parts you take off.
Roll it from the rear try to unplug stuff and roll back. Don't cut into it as you might need some stuff later.
Disconnect the rear wiring from the Main.
Do you have power windows? Keep that as a separate section if you do. I still have my original power window harness blended into the new one.
Disconnect the front engine. from the main harness. Then if you are going to do it anyhow remove the dash.
I would say. If you going to pay up for a Ron Francis. Just buy a repop Ford 57 style harness. That way all the color codes and everything can go back together like original.
Otherwise you WILL HAVE TO CONVERT SOMETHINGS FROM GM TO FORD. You can still use your dimmer switch and ignition switches.
On the dash there will be a power reduced for some dash parts only.
Most aftermarket harnesses are setup as GM first.
So a lot of the connector will be ready to plug in GM parts.
Let me tell you how much I regret that. I regret that lot.
I recently went ahead and figured out the original 57 turn signal switch to GM wires. It had what is called a hair comb connector with a universal switch on the column. But I took the time to clean up my old switch and figure it out.
Had I bought an original style harness. It would have been a plug and play affair. Especially at the price of a Ron Francis kit.
Anyhow basically when you re-wire you do it in sections. Engine, front lights. Rear lights. Interior. Dash.
Also you want to make sure you have all the grounds set.
I recommend batterycablesusa.com for new battery cables. Make just about anything in the gate as you want and are all made in the USA. And fair prices.
I would run the wiring along where it went before.
Find 1157 piglet wires for the taillights. Find some female blade connector. Headlight connectors Sometimes the kits don't bring these and they add up.
Get some friction tape the non glue type. You can get it on Amazon or eBay. This to wrap the wrong when your ready for final routing.
Btw you seems to be triple posting on all the common forums. I have about 4 I got and see the same story. Haha. Well how you get more advice that way and you take it.
Gotta disagree with you because of the Ron Francis brand. That was a great choice. One of the few, if not only, harness manufacturers that cater to Ford.....nothing GM about them. At least that was the case with the express kit I got from them. Best quality and best instructions. Nothing with the Ron Francis is going to pair up well with the old harness, so, just pull it all out and start from scratch. They straight out tell you, if their harness conflicts with the oem, follow the RF instructions.
I'd also follow their recommendation of wiring the car as if it were plastic/fiberglass..........wired grounds. Nothing on my car is grounded to the body and in 5 years I've had zero wiring issues.
I'm guessing the harness you are regretting, Abe, was a "universal" wiring harness.........the description that should be avoided when buying a harness, especially for a Ford. I don't think Ron Francis even makes a universal harness, at least their Express series is not. They are made for your specific car and serial numbered. Our old '57s don't have much in the way of connectors, but if your going new school drivetrain and steering column such as I did, the connectors become very important. Ron Francis only uses GXL and Sxl wires.double jacket cross-linked urathane for heat and abrasion resistance. You can tell the difference the first time you strip the end of a wire....tough stuff, yet soft and flexible.
Thanks Abe,
Yep I post on a couple of forums so that I get as much knowledge as possible-so I apologize that you are getting multiple postings of the same thing. It has been 20+ years since I was in the OHV world, I normally hang in the flathead world with my Model A. As for the wiring, I was hoping to leave the dash alone for now and just deal with the engine compartment and tail light area. That is the hope.....
Mike
I went with Ron Francis Express for Ford with extra length wires for console fuse panel install and special steering column plug for mid '70s Ford. The steering column plug saved me from having to do it (big plus). The extra long wires weren't! I had to add wire to one taillight. I would have had to add wire to one headlight but thought it was a good time to install headlight relays and so the headlight wires were long enough. TIP: INSTALL HEADLIGHT RELAYS. The instructions were great and are now part of the build doco'. The fuse panel wasn't as rugged as I expected but still good. The wire quality, colors and labels are great. But as most after market products, they default to GM style. The included headlight switch was a GM style switch with GM style socket, terminals, and dome light wiring. I wanted to preserve the Ford headlight switch and had wired the dome light system as a Ford. So the GM socket wouldn't just plug into the Ford head light switch. So popped all the terminals out of the GM socket to clip them back into the Ford socket only to find the GM style terminal ends wouldn't interchange into the Ford socket. It would have saved a lot of time if I would have just clipped the wires in the first place. I never have gotten the courtesy lights to work off the headlight switch. Now that I have went through the learning curve, I will order a Ron Francis wiring harness for the next project. I will know the next time to not assume ordering a Ford compatible harness means Ford compatible switches are to be used. I will be very specific about every connection.
I went with the Ron Francis Express kit. When you order the kit they will ask a lot of questions about your car. I went with an alternator so they set the kit up for that instead of the generator. It does come with a GM headlight switch and GM connector for the turn signals. To make the dome light work correctly you will need a different socket for the dome light and will need to run a ground wire to it. I got the socket from Amazon for just a couple of dollars. You can order the kit with the wires connected to the fuse panel or not connected. I got mine not connected so I could start at the lights or accessories and run the wires back to the fuse panel. You can have the dash out of the car and wire the whole thing and then connect it to the fuse panel once it is back in the car. As Rich said run an extra ground wire. I have one run to the trunk, one to the dash and another under the hood. Don't forget to check the instrument voltage regulator and also oil your speedometer head. I didn't oil my when the dash was out and it started to scream at me. It is a real bear to oil when it is back in the car. If you have the dash out it is also a good time to clean the gauge faces and touch up the indicator needles with a little paint. The kit sounds expensive but by the time you by a fuse panel, relays, turn signal flasher, headlight switch, and a pile of different gauge and color wires there isn't a lot of difference.
(https://i.imgur.com/ClLvskB.jpg)
And by buying a RF kit (or any other after market one) the wires TELL you where they go! Big asset for idiots! I like not having to figure out where stuff goes...read the wire...hook up the wire...move on! Oh Yea! (I AM an idiot!)
Ok, that many wires hanging down does not look fun on my back-even with the seat out. Sooooooo, how hard is it tale the dash out?
Mike
If memory serves it is 4-8 screws. I can't remember now...I had mine out 50 years ago in the white one. But I've slept since then. I know it only took about an hour or two. I was going to out a '57 back in...but the one I was going to buy got bought out from under me...so the '58 went back in...and did so in time for my date that night at the drive-in! LOL!!! I was 18.
(I did have help from a more experienced '57 owner, but I'd do it again before I'd lay on my 68 year old back and do it!)
Ok, that doesn't sound too bad...?... ::) I can get the daughter to help me move it out of the car so I can rewire it and clean and lube. I will have to look at the manual to make sure I hit everything.
Mike
Oh heck yea! If you have a manual it will go much easier. I didn't have one then. I do now. I am a big proponent of work bench rebuilds...having done more than my share on my back under the dash. Takes more time...but the comfort level...INFINITELY worth it! LOL!!!
I have been watching your threads...I am impressed with how fast you are moving. Good for you! You give me inspiration to get back on mine once I can get my shop sorted out again after that insane year of moving! Keep going! Oh...and most everything you have in mind...Gunther has done...along with everyone else here. Rich did his entire car on his own...with help form here, and he had NEVER fooled with cars before. Having ridden in his...I can tell you he did a superb job in EVERY aspect...and can give you a lot of guidance!
That is why I am on here and several other forums asking questions. I need to know how to get things done the quickest, safest and best way.
Mike
definitely want to remove the dash anyways, Mike. I seem to remember that you also have to repair or replace a butchered radio and speaker ? Replacing the speaker alone is worth pulling the dash. you'll have to unbolt the steering column drop and hand brake and hood latch pull. you will have to remove and pull the vaccuum wiper motor cable and some or most of the heater control wire cables. Then disconnect the main wire loom from the connector fitting in the engine compartment, also some other parts like brake light switch, ign coil resistor, generator and regulator and horns and pull the main wire loom back into the car. it is all one piece without a firewall connector.
after that it is only 2 brackets ( 1 at each A post) and I believe 3 or 5 screws to the firewall. Oh yeah, you may have to unbolt the m/c to get out the pedal assembly. It all sounds a lot, but will make working a lot easier like Hugh said.
THAT SAID, Still be warned to completely disassemble the wgn right now. There will be a lot of overwhelming work waiting literally EVERYWHERE ! I am just passing on that good tip of better avoiding a full frame off resto. :002:
ps while you have the dash out, you have great access to the heater and especially the dreaded cowl vent rubber drains ! Make sure to repair those while you have good access !
Guenter,
That is exactly what I don't want to do, restore the car right now. I just want to get her on the road safely. But, if I have to take the dash out to replace the wiring vs. have a fire or short, then so be it. I can make it a winter project if need be. After the suspension and steering are done, it is off to cutting and welding in new sheet metal since that is going to take a looonnnggggg time to accomplish.
Also, I just realized that I don't think I can reinstall the springs just yet as I don't have an engine in the car to weigh it down on the stands. No big deal as she is going from the garage to the drive way and back. So I will put them back in when I get an engine/tranny put together.
Mike
I rewired mine with Painless and was pleased with the kit. The worst part of the entire assembly was deciding where to mount the fuse box. After seeing the original mess under the dash and especially the age of those connections, it's cheap insurance on reducing a fire risk, chasing intermittent electrical issues. I removed the dash and cannot imagine how difficult it would be without removal. One of the original fuse holders on mine had a strip of aluminum foil to keep the fuse in tight and prevent it from blowing, the light switch had a mind of its own.
I believe the Ron Frances kit is a higher end kit than the Painless kit. The Painless one was more of a generic, not specifically for the 57. I think the RF kit was made to order at the time and had a lead time of a couple weeks. The Painless has the GM connection for the steering column. I changed the steering column so it was a match. I can see where an original steering wire harness would need modifications.
There are as many wiring kits out there as paint colors! Price should not be the determining factor alone. There are some good kits that are relatively inexpensive and there are some cheap kits that are just that...cheap. Look around at the various sites and see what people are using and comments. Google each vendor and look for comments.
Ron Francis is probably the best out there. His follow up is unmatched by anybody in the industry. His tech folks will literally wire your car over the phone. There are many kits that require a base knowledge of automotive wiring, they are good values if you know your way around.
To get the best buck for your money do a long hard planning session around the end result you want to have with your build. Example, if you are staying simple and relatively accessory free a small kit would be a much better buy then a Francis kit. If you are going "he-tech", (fuel injection, power everything, audio, cruise and such), then Francis is the way to go.
As far as wiring goes, I am an idiot. Which might explain why I have a Mac-it is idiot proof. I would prefer a plug and play with great tech support. I don?t really want to have to change this or that to make it fit. So if I pay a little more then so be it.
As for the dash coming out, it would allow me to rebuild the heater box and wipe system. I think I will need both items when I move to the NW😀💦❄️.
Mike
Well had a great day today. I broke the last of the ball joints loose and took out the spindles and upper A arms. I could not get the lowers out as i did not have the wrenches to get the bolts out. Do I have to have the upper bushings pressed out to get the shafts out of the upper arms? One rotated in the bushings, the other did not, so I don't know what portends.
On a side note, went to my first swap meet this year in Alameda and scored this A/C unit. It was first charged in 65 and according to the seller the motor runs! I hope I can use it, anybody have thoughs on how well these work with the new freons? . Slowly taking apart the steering parts and will have to cut more nuts off :deadhorse:. I break them loose, unscrew them to the last few threads and then they stop as the tie rod starts to spin in its case:(. Oh well, I will try and get the lower arms out next weekend.
Mike
I'm trying to jog my memory. I did the control arm rebuild 10 years ago+!. I think I drilled out the old rubber from the bushings using a 1/8" or so drill bit......just kinda chewed it out. After that, I could get the metal sleeves separated away from the shaft, and I think enough room at that point to get the shafts out, leaving just the outer steel bushing to be pressed out. For that I used 5/8 threaded rod and some sockets from a cheap Harbor Freight socket set, which I needed anyways.
When you press the new bushings in, pay attention to the ribs that are on the side of the bushing. They tell you how far to press them in. I remember the shafts have to be in place before pressing the new bushings in. I think I also used those big sockets to press them in with a hydraulic press we had at work.
Mike.....were you the one that lives near Tejares? (SP)
Hi Rich,
Nope I live in Walnut Creek now. And do you have pics of your tool that you made up? I have a local Napa that can press them @$30 a bushing.
Mike
Quote from: 1930artdeco on 2021-05-08 19:00
Hi Rich,
Nope I live in Walnut Creek now. And do you have pics of your tool that you made up? I have a local Napa that can press them @$30 a bushing.
Mike
Not really a made up tool. I think that 3/4 socket set from HF was like 35 or 40 bucks............a couple sockets and threaded rod, nuts and washers is all you need. Doing it that way also prevents any hydraulic pressure possibly distorting the control arms. Save money and gain a tool set at the same time. LOL, it's about the only thing I've ever used that 3/4 socket set for, except it gives you an assortment of sizes for bending stuff around also.
Hi Rich,
Do happen to have a pic of the tool. I just want to see how it is used to get the bushings out with the shaft still in place. I think I know how to put it together though.
Thanks,
Mike
I'll check my build thread, but I don't think so.
Tomorrow I am going to have a go at the lower control arms, I have been soaking them with either kroil or WD40 every so often so I am hoping that they are thoroughly soaked by then. Are these arms good to go where the spring sits? It looks like they got a little banged up as there is a lip where the shock sits inboard. I also discovered that I am pulling the original suspension apart as the rivets that hold the upper ball joints are there and have a waffle pattern.
Second question is this, do I have the inner sleeve still left on the idler arm? If so, how do I get it off of the stud, cut, heat, twist, what? I ordered a spare spindle and two visor brackets from the yard in 29 Palms (forget the gentleman's name) But he sent me a great looking left spindle that was even blasted!
Thank you,
Mike
Ok, got the lower arms out-quite easily actually. So now I am scared that something is wrong :003:. Got the arms out and noticed that one of the bushing cases is ripped and then I noticed that the arm has a tear where the bushing goes. Is this weldable or should I just get another arm?
Mike
Aggravation vs. cost... :icon_shaking:...I think I'd buy another one. Just me...some things aren't worth the annoyance.
I would find another and scarp that one.
I agree. For me I'd be forever wondering what caused the tear and if it distorted/twisted the arm in a manner that would be hard to detect.
BTW, at least when I did mine, someone was remaking the lower pins. Maybe Classic Auto Parts in OKC?
Yep, I think a new arm is in order. The pins are actually in great shape so I can reuse them if I can. Just need new sleeves.
Mike
Mike, go back to the pics I posted and study the A arms pictured.
http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=8663.msg85106#msg85106
What you are looking at the cracked tubing on your A arm, its not the actual A arm but just the bushing housing sleeve, that comes as a replacement WITH new bushings.
You will have to press or cut those out anyways, to be able to press in replacements. you will never be able to get the press fit rubbers in there if you disassembled new ones.
the smaller v shaped ridge in the actual A arm does not seem to have moved in decades and might as well be part of the production process and stamp forming. I would not worry about it at all. sure, weld it up and file it down. jmho.
I agree with Guenter. The large crack is in the sleeve that will be removed to make way for the new bushing. The small crack in the a-arm body is of little importance.
They are correct........can't believe I missed that.
Good catch guys, I totally looked at the picture incorrectly :005:
Thanks Guenter, I will see about having one of the guys in my fab shop weld it up for me. Here is a better pic though since the first one was pretty dirty.
I got one shaft out of the upper arm (the worst of the two) and after a wire wheel it looks pretty good. Do I need to worry about using my micrometer? So I think I am going to just buy new bushings and reassemble.
Mike
Mike, now we can see that crack in the actual A arm. Still nothing to worry about imo. pro guys at the fab shop will probably clean it thoroughly and Tig it back together without even a need to dress any welds. it may be a good idea to provide them with a new replacement bushing, so they can arrange the crack and collar for a nice press fit.
The shaft looks good. it appears the original machining is still visible on the ends. again, clean the rust off thoroughly and just test fit a new bushing on it. the inner bushing sleeves will be fastened and compressed by the 2x outer hex bolts, so no need for a press fit here.
The reason for the cracked lower A arm might be loose shafts in the frame. inspect those areas closely on the front and engine crossmembers. there are some reinforcement brackets welded to the crossmembers and those welds might have broken loose from an impact, sloppy factory welding or simply decades of abuse. I had to reweld several of these on my Del Rio frame.
That is good to know Guenter. I just ordered bushings and one of the guys in my fab shop said he would weld it up and maybe press the bushings in. I will check the frame for any damage from collisions. The bolts came out fairly easily with little to no rust. Here is to hoping. I did notice some extra plates welded onto the round cross member.
I also had some squared spacers come off of the front bolts. I assume those are for alignment purposes. Or just spacers. But I kept them just the same.
Mike
I remember seeing a place that makes rear glass for my car. The windshield is no problem but I cannot seem to find a place that makes/sells a tinted rear piece. Does anyone have any ideas?
Thanks,
Mike
Is it flat or slightly curved?
I have Bob's Classic auto glass bookmarked for when I do my glass. That is an eBay seller. You always ask. He does the blue tint too.
Is your glass cracked?
It is not broken-yet. All the glass needs new seals, and I have to replace the entire left side due to cracks or delamination (wind wing glass). So.. I saw the smoke glass and figured, it has to come out anyways I might as well replace the left and right sides with smoke tinted glass. Then over time I will replace the windshield and tailgate eventually.
Thanks,
Mike
If the glass is not cracked. Just clean it you may want to run a flat blade light light to fur her clean it. It the glass is not delaminating try to keep it. Just change the seals. I have a weird delamination and oxidation. And a couple broke pieces. Nothing is like original glass. I would only the front if it not clean and most have chips.
I agree, I may just slowly pull the clear out and squirrel it away. Who knows.
Mike
Probably sounds weird, but got to like the delamination. people are always asking me about it, but is not critical in blocking road view at all, and I think it adds to the character of an old survivor car. It does not look good on fresh paint cars though.
Yeah the delamination of the wind wing window is no real big deal. But, I figured if I have to pull the entire left side out because they are broken, then I may as well continue on around with tinted glass. It would be for looks as well as keeping the temps down. But then again I am not painting her for quite some time. Right now I am trying to just get her down on her wheels again, then I will move to welding in new Sheetmetal.
Mike
I got my gray-tinted glass from www.autocityclassic.com
At least in years past, they delivered free to many major swap meets. They are a great source for radiators and gas tanks as well.
For what it's worth, my windshield is not gray-tinted, it is green-tinted. Nobody has ever noticed, and I totally forget about it most of the time.
Recent pic from my Florida trip
Ok I have two suspension questions.
1) How do the shafts and bushings work? I put one upper arm in a bushing and it rotated quite freely. I figured they would have a tight fit like one that I took off.
2) Can I reuse the bolts for the lower arms if the frame is still good?
Thanks,
Mike
Ok, got one of the upper ball joints out🎉. Now here is a NOS upper ball joint and the question is how do I install it? Do I take the rubber off, install, then put the rubber back on? Or do I bolt it up as is? The bottom is going to be the same thing.
Mike
Alright, going to start making up brake lines shortly. I will run the brake/fuel lines on the inside of the frame since I cannot get the clamp off that holds the original ones to the top of the frame rail. So here is my plan: Run each line down the frame in a rubber channel for abrasion/vibration protection and then use large hose clamps to attach them to the frame. Does anyone see any foreseeable issues?
Thanks,
Mike
Guenther is your man for that most likely...
That probably can be done. but come to think of it. Ford used a sort of 'interlock' process on welding their frames. there are certain slots and tabs, that would join, and with tabs twisted. would hold things together before the frame got on the welding jig. There could be certain areas in the frame rails, that have internal sort of bulkhead plates, that were used for the interloc process. That said they could possibly block the passage for your brake line routing.
I will look at the car tomorrow to see if it is feasible to use the clamps. And if so, where they will go. If this does not pan out, any other suggestions?
Mike
Take a look at "Made for You". They have a full line of nylon clamps that come in a variety of colors and are used by racer teams and hot rodders.
https://www.made4youproducts.com/online-store
There clamps will hold the lines very snug, can be bought in every size needed and in combinations. Good stuff.
I used ss line clamps. A neat cheap tool that will get the job done quickly (as far as clamping) is the combination drill and tap from Harbor Freight. A variable speed drill and some tapping fluid are a must. I don't really see a need for the rubber.....think down the road 10 years when the rubber is old and hard. A solid clamp every few feet is going to keep it secure to the frame.
A pic I took yesterday shows one of the mentioned line clamps. It's just below the flex line bracket. Sorry for all the dirt...it use to be sooo pretty under there, lol. Yes, my lines are moved to in front of the control arm for the disc brake conversion.
Rich.........What Car or Truck did the Windshield Washer Tank come from? And as long as I'm asking questions, what did you use for the Nozzles? Photo of the Nozzles?
Thanks
John
"The reason for the cracked lower A arm might be loose shafts in the frame. inspect those areas closely on the front and engine crossmembers. there are some reinforcement brackets welded to the crossmembers and those welds might have broken loose from an impact, sloppy factory welding or simply decades of abuse. I had to reweld several of these on my Del Rio frame."
Guenter,
I found a small square piece where the front lower bolt goes through the frame to be totally loose. Is this piece that you are referring to that needs to be rewelded? Also, the front lower bolts both have half round washers behind the bolt heads. Are these just spacers for alignment?
Thanks,
Mike
Quote from: djfordmanjack on 2021-05-25 04:37
That probably can be done. but come to think of it. Ford used a sort of 'interlock' process on welding their frames. there are certain slots and tabs, that would join, and with tabs twisted. would hold things together before the frame got on the welding jig. There could be certain areas in the frame rails, that have internal sort of bulkhead plates, that were used for the interloc process. That said they could possibly block the passage for your brake line routing.
Hello all,
I'm the new guy, blowing the dust off of his long-stalled project, '57 Ranchero. Since I'm almost on the same page this might be as good a place as any to land.
I thought one of the first things I should do is "plumb" a new fuel supply to eliminate the 35 feet of hose that some long forgotten "mechanic" installed.
The irony is that the original tube is still in place and looks to be in good condition. However, I didn't want to start out with fuel problems on the shakedown/evaluation run, so I decided to install another, for now at least.
Anyway, I will second that definitely it's not possible to route tube through the frame. As DJ describes, there are "flags" of steel inside the side-rails that can't be passed.
I'll also second that it would be very difficult in one run to follow the OE tube's path while body is on the frame; that's a tough crossover and turn just ahead of the rear tire.
I thought about routing the tube on the outside of the frame further back, to the axle "hump," and then crossing to the inside. I decided that in the event of a tire failure it'd be better not to have the gasoline line within the wheel well.
Finally, the new temporary line follows approximately the original but with a more gentle angled crossover. The tube is ZipTie anchored for now.. I'll tidy that up later, or use the OE tube again, but wanted to get a test drive in.
Glad to meet y'all.
Rancher..welcome. I'd recommend starting your own build thread. It keeps things less cluttered and easier to find. For some reason I thought you were from Sweeden??
John.....the washer assembly is from a 2000ish Mustang. Has the built in pump and only a small part of the filler neck sticks thru the fenderwell. Makes for an easy and neat install. It was part of getting my steering column fully functional. For nozzles I used a set of repops made for Chevy headlights. I forget the model Chevy it was made for. I'll get some pics tomorrow unless I can find them already posted here.
Rancher...welcome to the House of Nuts...we're all harmless...and some here are pretty brilliant in a crazy sort of way. :binkybaby: Enjoy! :003:
Oh...where do you get mail?
Mike, I don't think any of the lower A arm (bolt) washers are for alignment. all alignment seems to be done with the upper A arm only.
yes the rectangular plate is originally welded to the frame crossmember, you should be able to see the old tack welds.
Quote from: 1930artdeco on 2021-05-26 01:12
"The reason for the cracked lower A arm might be loose shafts in the frame. inspect those areas closely on the front and engine crossmembers. there are some reinforcement brackets welded to the crossmembers and those welds might have broken loose from an impact, sloppy factory welding or simply decades of abuse. I had to reweld several of these on my Del Rio frame."
Guenter,
I found a small square piece where the front lower bolt goes through the frame to be totally loose. Is this piece that you are referring to that needs to be rewelded? Also, the front lower bolts both have half round washers behind the bolt heads. Are these just spacers for alignment?
Thanks,
Mike
this is the only pic I have.
sorry for the poor pics, but these are the rectangular reinforcement plates that are spot welded to each side of the crossmember. usually coming loose with front suspension impact.
Thanks Guenter,
I figured that those were the pieces. Looks like it is grinding time! Then I will tig them back on. It doesn't surprise me they broke off, what with what this car has gone through. I discovered that the NOS lower ball joints won't mate up because the lower arms are beat up just enough they won't mount. So I will have to heat them up a tad and reform the area where the ball joint goes.
Mike
Finally an update. I got the front brake line installed yesterday. Well at least mocked up and in. I need to clean the little brass junction block and install that. Working on the rear lines now. I like this NiCop stuff.
All ball joints are out and one lower arm is going into the shop this weekend to get welded up. Then off to the blaster and paint. Then new bushings and ball joints are going in. So, hoping that in a few weeks she will have a front suspension again🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉.
Mike
Ok! Got the rear shocks in and have figured out how route the fuel and brake lines. There is a spot behind where they are supposed to go between the body and frame where I can route them. I will just have to make up a support for them. Other than that, they will follow the regular path.
Still trying to figure out how much to grind down an Allen key so that I can drain the diff. The rear brake line is mocked up and ready to be installed after I sonic the brass brake parts. Also, got my springs in and they are about an inch shorter than the originals. But they appear to be beefier coils and should not collapse when I stuff an engine in. So by the end of the month I hope to have the front suspension installed🎉🎉🎉🎉.
Mike
I made a tool to get at the drain plug. My local ACE has a nice rack of steel, bought the right size square stock and stuffed a short part into a twelve point socket. Just need to round the edges slightly for a good fit.
SNAP-ON PPM410 3/8 drive 5/16" external plug drive, four point
https://www.ebay.com/itm/392994826118?hash=item5b80512786:g:vLAAAOSwb~RfmdCB
Just a tid bit of info: IIRC, years ago the military used 5/16 drive sockets it the hope that Sm's wouldn't steel the tools. Seems like my dad p/u a set at an auction and offered them to me but being young a foolish I didn't see a need for something odd like that.
Well, I just put a deposit down on a complete 312 (hopefully-well it had a 4bbl carb at least) power train. I will get the rad, engine, tranny and drive shaft. Plus y?all of the PS components and a voltage regulator that looks good. Will pick it all up either this week or next. So my FE?s have to go bye bye really soon. My daughters school has an auto shop program so they may go there.
Mike
I won't be out that way until August...
Mustang, check you messages.
got it...and replied...Hugh... :006:
Ok, I got the rear end brake lines in and I ran the long brake line so that I can start tomorrow to do the ends, supports and protectors. Got the MC out finally and decided to buy a rebuild just because I don't trust the original until I can clean it out. But I do have one question, How does the MC plumb into the brake lines? I am missing some thing that allows it to plumb into the system up front. Pics would be great.
Mike
Noticed something today, is the tail gate supposed to rest on the little vertical bumperettes?
Mike
Nope, there are flat straps on each side to hold it level with the bed floor.
The single output line from the master went to a distribution block located on the frame almost straight down from the master.
Here are pictures of the block below the master cylinder, the block above the left front wheel and the right front wheel.
(https://i.imgur.com/4hMOmvI.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Wozvjs2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xTHl7xd.jpg)
Good pics.
JFYI..if you are planning a front disc conversion (don't think you are), you probably don't want to run the front lines yet, as most of the conversion kits require the brake lines to connect to the calipers in front of the control arms. The brackets glr posted in his last pic would be moved and swapped right to left.
Glr, thanks. So if I understand it right:
MC down to a junction block and from there you get the left front wheel which supplies the right front wheel. And then the rear brakes go the junction block from the MC. Correct?
Mike
I figured out why I didn't see anything to copy/replace. Because there is nothing there. So, I went to NAPA and I can get a junction block from them, I saw a what appears to be a bolt hole in the frame, what size is the bolt that goes in there? Also, should I put a fabric type wrap around the lines for protection and temp control?
Mike
P.S. I just remembered I pulling parts off of a 57 fairlane so I will grab the block off that car.
Ok I picked everything up. I got the following items:
V-8 rad-still looks functional
312-can't verify until maybe next weekend when I can remove the tranny and look for the dot.
Ford-o-matic, plus drive shaft.
All of the linkages
57 Ranchero seat
59 Steering column and pitman arm
brake junction block so I can finish installing the brake lines.
Original license plates from the donor car.
All of the PS components-spares now
I popped the valve covers looking for sludge-NONE! I am going to be optimistic and hope this engine still has life left in it :003:. The carb has been replaced, and the road tube is gone replaced by PCV valve. All of the linkages seem to be there except a little ball got broken off of the carb linkage that can just barely be seen in the PCV pic. Anyone have a replacement or know where to get one? The block is still full of antifreeze so it will have to be drained. It came with the starter and gen as well as all of PS stuff.
The manager of the yard allowed me to publish his contact info for others who may need parts. I know there is what is left of a 57 fairlane, 59 wagon, 2 59 rancheros and a 57 ranchero. His name is Logan and his number is707-540-5208. And now for the pic porn.
Mike
Not only is there no sludge inside the motor, but appears that there was minimal leakage to the outside as well. Indicates a motor that had an easy life and was well cared for. You may have well scored big! Congrats! :006:
Here is the carb linkage part that you need.
https://www.dormanproducts.com/p-26523-115-007.aspx?origin=keyword
That is it. Thank you.
Mike
Do they make these little heat shields for the plugs anymore? I do t see them in the two catalogues I have.
Mike
Is this a manual or PS 59 box?
Mike
Carpenters? No idea on the box but every time I've seen a power steering car the horn button/ring had "power" on it......
I always thought the boxes were the same?
Plug Heat shields are available, Macs and most Tbird suppliers. Manual and power box is the same thing, power steering is actually power assist using the ram.
Duh, right when FBB mentioned the steering ring it dawned on me that it is a manual horn ring. And as long as they are the same box and pitman arm I am good to go. Thank you all. I have two indicators this engine has never been opened!!!!!!
Mike
Check into the notes on the 58/59 boxes vs the 57. I believe the difference will be seen when you remove the sleeve from your 57 and add it to the 59 one, unless you are using it all straight up. just repaint and go.
The Turn signal switch, horn wire and I believe there is another difference.
Did you get overall photos of the parts cars that were left there? what models were they? specifically the 57? Thanks
These are all that I took of the donor car. It was a 57 fairlane. I remember seeing a 57 ranchero, a 59 ranchero and a 59 wagon, and a 62-63 wagon as well. Sorry I was in a time crunch and forgot to take more pics.
Mike
The white shift knob and turn switch lever are clues that it's a '58. '57 would be black.
Good news! I just verified the engine is a true 312! It is free and the starter looks good as well. Bad news, I think the rear main is shot as I saw lot of oil puddling at the bottom of the bell housing. Pss side plugs.
Mike
Best Gaskets makes a neoprene seal that I've had some success with, about $50 had one fail too. Do not use modern asbestos free seals, they are worthless. If you are going to use a rope seal be sure it is old stock asbestos.
Ok, This week I am planning to get the arms all ready to reinstall in the car. That means new bushings. I get the bottoms but what is the order for the top arms. I think it is install the cross shaft and place both bushing in the holes. But how do you press them in with the shaft installed?
Mike
Been quite a while but I think I installed one bushing, put the shaft in thru the other end and then installed the other bushing....
Well, pulled the MC apart for clean up and possible rebuild. This is what came out. The bore is super clean though. So, just hit her with some cylinder stones lightly and rebuild it and then back in she goes. Also, anyone know why Ford used to different mast cylinders? Mine has the smaller bolt pattern than the apparent ?stock? version?
Mike
RE: the two different sizes...I believe one was for manual brakes the other for power assist brakes. Somewhere back in my foggy recess of my mid I seem to have heard that.
Well, I had the control arms blasted and am painting them now along with the MC and new spindle. I installed one upper ball joint today and will do the other tomorrow along with new bushings. The lower will probably have to wait until next week as it has to be straightened out a bit more on the press so I can get the ball joint in. Tomorrow I will hone the MC out and hopefully paint it up so I can rebuild it next week.
I adjusted all of the valves in the Y today using Tim McMasters method and it worked great. So tomorrow I am going to separate the tranny. Anything I should look out for? If I remember right, I put the bell housing bolts and it should slip off. Then unbolt the converter, drain and set aside. I drain the tranny fluid and it was mostly purple, but I could see red as it poured out. How do I know if I need a new flex plate? Starting to add things back to car :snoopy2: :snoopy2: :snoopy2:
Mike
To get my Auto tranny out, do I have to remove the cross brace that it is connected to? Right now it is sitting on the cross pipe for the exhaust system and needs to come out so I can put the new one in.
Thanks,
Mike
yes, at least 95% sure. I did, but that was so I could drop the tail of the tranny being pulled with the engine. Not a big deal to remove anyway. Undo the bolts then use a BFH to tap towards the back.
BFH...Big Friendly Hammer :003:
Well got her off and set aside. Everything, even the ring gear is in great shape. I don?t think the tranny has ever been apart from the engine. But how do I get the flex plate off without destroying it? I hit the bolts with an impact gun and it didn?t even budge.
Also, this was at the bottom of the housing. To me, that is rear main oil leakage. Which is the main reason to get the flex plate off. So I can replace if need be.
Mike
Why do I have holes in the side of the block? The center one I think is for a dipstick in the future. But what about the other two?
Mike
More progress. Since I manage to always find the obscure items to buy/restore/fix this should come as no surprise that the MC is a Ford oddball. The vendors sell a MC that is 2? measured vertically bolt to bolt. My car came with one that 1 7/8? bolt to bolt-not sold by the vendors of course. But I managed to have the local NAPA track one down so I can finish my brake system finally!
Got the upper control arms done! Are the bushings OK? I swear there just about 1/4? gap between the shoulder and the arm. So that is what I did not realizing the other one would be out so far. Is there going to be safety/alignment problems?
The ring gear is pretty chewed up. Is there a way to replace it or rotate it so the starter engages some good teeth?
I figured while do a compression check I am going to move oil around so might as well have a good filter on her. This is the one I took off-notice where it is made?..that is how old it is.
The bushings should be in the arm an equal amount on both sides. There should have been some raised spots on the bushings to show how far into the arms they go. I don't have a picture of what the bushings look like on the inside of the arms but this shows how far they stick out on the outside of the arms.
(https://i.imgur.com/mHACply.jpg)
Well, crap. Guess that they are coming back out and I have new ones on order. A friend who helped me press in the lowers ran them up flush does that mean they will be coming out too?
Mike
Ring gears are available and they can be removerdand replaced. I googled "Ford Y block ring gear". Multiple vendors come up. I had the one on my FE flywheel replaced.
x2 what GLR7533 said. raised bosses to provide a depth stop.
On a manual flywheel, flip the ring gear. For an automatic flexplate, replace the flexpate. '57 FOM has the ring gear welded to the torque convertor. Time for a new or reman torque convertor.
Ok, since I will have to do these things twice now let me see if I have this right:
Upper bushings-there are no stops but should be equally spaced between front and rear in and out. The one I did I left about the same amount of space as the one in GLR?s pic and the other end sticks out way to much.
Bottom bushings-use the raised portion of the bushing as a stop guide.
Is this correct?
Mike
Something isn't right on the arm with the bushing too far out on one end. Any chance your friend put the arms in his press full height with no support between the ears to keep it from distorting/bending the arms?
I just looked at my uppers and they are about 1/4" space under the flange. I can't remember if there were stops on the uppers or not. It was a loooong time ago, but I believe I used the bolts into the upper arm ends to pull the bushings in. For the bottoms, I'm sure I used a 5/8 threaded rod with 3/4" sockets big enough to clear the bushing OD on the inside and a strap or other socket on the outer flange. That way there's no way of distorting the control arm in a press.
I would swear that the upper bushings had 1/4? or so gap under the ?heads?. Which is what I did on the one I installed. But there is no way to do that on the other side with the shaft installed. So, I am wondering if the bushings themselves are to long to do this.
In other words, I wonder if there is going to be say 1/2? under the head on each side? I did not measure the original bushing length.
Mike
Here is the lower arm, how do these bushings look?
I am almost ready-need a gauge-to do my compression check. I am going to hook up the battery this way:
Negative grounded to the block
Positive to the starter relay
Starter to relay
Relay is bolted to the intake
Sound good?
Mike
Wiring sounds good.
Don't be too critical of compression test results if the engine's been in waiting. An obviously dead hole, yes, a worry. Otherwise valve and ring sealing may not be up to par until after some run time.
Before letting the starter rip, turn crank two full turns by hand to make sure everything is clear.
Wouldn't relay be better on the inner fender on passenger side like from factory? Less heat...longer life. Just thinking out loud here... :icon_scratch:
I believe it's just temporary wiring for taking compression test while engine is hanging by a chain.
Actually could skip the relay all together if there's a decent expendable "arc pad" to make contact with. An overlength bolt?
Ah...yea...okay...test fire. I thought it was already in car for the fire off.
Yep the wiring is just temporary. I just want to get a feel for what the compression is, and you are correct Rancher it may come up as things seat back in. But at least I will have a starting point. And before I crank her over this weekend I will oil the snot out of her valve train and pour some down the push rod holes as I don't want anything unlubbed to be grinding on anything else.
Mike
Might not be a bad idea to put a little in the cylinders as well if you are going to let it sit for a few days before firing. Just to give the cylinders a bit of slippery for the rings to avoid breaking one. Just a thought...it's what I do with a long sitting motor.
Already did that with some 10-30, just a few squirts. But, I will do it again tomorrow as all it will do is just slide down the walls.
:icon_super:
Take the rag off the intake carb opening, you need air to compress.
Hiball, the engine sits outside right now so the rag is just there for rodent and debris control. It gets moved inside next week and put on a stand so I can check the bearings. Comp check tomorrow👍.
Mike
Well couldn?t get the diff out as the nuts are frozen to the shackles and U bolts. But I managed to get the pinion gear out so I can change the seal. Great news! I drained the original oil out I think and it was red and not burnt smelling. Plus there is zero wear on the gear!
Mike
So I did my first compression check on my engine that I got for my wagon. Here are the results-I ended up using an O-Reilly gauge as that is all had at the time. Opinions please (first test/second test):
1-100/110
2-0/0
3-50/50
4-45/35
5-40/15
6-50/0
7-40/0
8-30/0
The valves were adjusted to .020 cold per the book (used Tim McMasters method) and this gauge is the screw in type. I checked #2 with my grandfathers hand held gauge and it registered 30#. #1 it blew my hand off of the head so I could not verify the reading. I suspect the valves my be the cause so I rechecked and adj. a few on the drivers bank and here are the numbers:
5-40/40
6-20/20
7-45/50
8-30/30
It is possible that the valves are good but the guides/seals are bad. Maybe the rings? But all indications are that this engine has about 47K and never opened up. Sneaky suspicion the heads are going in.
Thanks,
Mike
I'd say the valve seals are shot. which is good...since that will be cheaper than replacing valves.
#2 is a worry.
Maybe a valve stuck open?
Any chance of setting the engine up for a short run?
Even with garden hose cooling system.
Nothing like a bit of run time to limber things up.
And of course hearing it and seeing what the exhaust looks like.
Yah, and that rear main. :073:
I am hoping it is just the seals as well. I don?t have a way to get her running just yet as the carb is toast and there is no muffler.
Mike
To avoid the annoyance of having to take it all apart while in the car...I think I'd just do the heads now. And while they are at the shop...I'd replace the rear main. THEN when it goes in to the engine bay...it stays in the engine bay. Just me...
This is a tough call.
Looking at the engine pic I keep thinking "it's got to be good."
Yes, one day it'd be nice to "blueprint" the 312, but maybe for now it's within days of being usable as is?
Then again, a nice fresh complete Y-Block like that, hate to lose it over being in a rush.
Too bad the yard didn't know a backstory.
Do only the top job and then find later it has a broken/stuck ring?
Pull the pan and not check the bearings while that close?
In for a penny in for a pound. If it can be used as-is, great. If it needs any internal work at all it may as well be a complete rebuild now. Probably be less painful to face the need for a total rebuild right away, rather than 1/3 of a rebuild at a time.
I'm back to recommending some run time.
I'm not sure what the neighbor (exhaust noise) and tooling situation is but a test run would be so valuable.
There's gotta be a carburetor that's workable enough for a test run around somewhere? I probably have one, but logistics.
A good carburetor isn't necessary if you can test run with propane as fuel. Use the carburetor as just a throttle body and meter propane via a 20lb BBQ cylinder fitted with hose and valve. LP is an all around better test run fuel anyway.
Exhaust and mufflers would be nice, however, not mandatory.
So much could be learned from a test run... Exhaust smoke? Maybe #2 picks up? Confirm hot oil pressure. See just how bad the main drip is?
Unfortunately with those numbers you probably have stuck or broken rings. At this point I would pull the heads and look at the valves, if they aren't burned it will tell you it's the rings.
put air pressure to the spark plug hole and you can hear if intake valve, exhaust valve or rings
There is no carb on her right now as I bent one of the little brass tubes lifting it-so it took it off. The throttles are frozen anyways. But I could hear it suck air and then the sound would go away and come back.
Either way when she goes on the stand I am going to check all of the bearings, probably replace the rear main seal and have the heads redone. If she requires a rering then I would do it the as well. This all assumes the bearings are good. Thanks for the ideas and help.
Mike
There's plenty else to do, let the soak begin.
I vote that today the engine is tipped so that one bank's bores are vertical, then flooded with the fav-o-rite potion.
Now the next 5 pages can expound on the choice of potion. :002:
:deadhorse:
Since I will be getting a new gas tank, what are people using to replace their fuel line? Steel, niCopp, what?
Thanks,
Mike
I'm a steel kind of guy but niCopp is being used widely in the industry. I will say it is much easier to get tight flares with the stuff, that, and it is very easy to bend and fit. The niCopp is alleged to be much more corrosion resistant.
Bottom line, use what you think will be the best for you. Both are acceptable and will function well.
Yep, NiCopp.........sooo much easier. Both fuel and brakes lines. May be cheaper online, but your locals should have it also, in 25 ft rolls.
Awesome! I was hoping I could use it as I have be a bit creative on the routing. Now for armor I am using screen door springs on the brake lines. What should use for insulation on the fuel line? I will armor it up with springs as well-do t want any holes punched in it.
Thanks,
Mike
Here's a tip.......I used the single screw hole ss line clamps when I did mine. What saved a bunch of time, particularly in awkward places was a set of combination drill and taps from Harbor Freight. They're stubby, so most of the time no center punching is necessary. Just slow the speed down when it goes thru and feed the tap portion on in, then reverse to exit. Drill and tap one operation. They worked great and the set is cheap. I think I went with 10-32
https://www.harborfreight.com/sae-drill-tap-deburr-bit-set-95528.html
Thanks for the tip Rich.
In my quest to reduce weight on the hoist/stand, and the fact that the heads are probably toast, they are coming off. So.....what tool do I use to get them off? I am not going to try and find the special tool from the manual. Do I need a regular head puller? The bolts all came off easily-along with a valve cover stud-most were covered in oil but two appeared to have water droplets on them.
Thanks,
Mike
Just a lever to "gently" break the head loose.
Pry someplace that won't mar gasket surfaces.
Sometimes just reaching into a port is plenty.
There's probably a bolt left behind if the head won't begin to separate easily from the block; easy to overlook one.
OR...once you are sure that Rancher's scenario is not the issue...take a VERY BIG heavy hammer...and a block of wood (2x4 about 4 - 6 inches long) and smack it firmly and with vigor. They'll come loose...the head gasket will keep them from falling off since it is most likely married to both the head and block. But it will come loose.
As to fuel line...
I started to install metal tube on a Ranchero. I was hoping for one piece, the entire run. The original crossover ahead of the rear tire is a tough path to follow with the body on the frame. I thought the tube would have to be split to make the bend.
Then I started to think about an old 2020 truck I was working on, all plumbed with Nylon.
I used 3/8 "Nylon" routed outside of frame with an easy crossover to the inside just ahead of the tire. Piece of cake. When I installed the "plastic" I thought it'd be temporary, just to get the project going. Now I'm thinking that other than some tidying up, it's going to be permanent.
Each tubing choice has a downside. Plastic's big one is that heat could damage it. I'm not sure if that downside is enough to cancel all of the upside?
Rancher,
Hadn't thought of Nylon. I have been working with the NiCopp stuff (and screwing it up by cutting it to short :cussing:) and it is really easy to bend so that I can plumb it just past of the original spot between the body and frame. What size of fuel line do I need to run-5/16?
Mike
5/16 was the norm.
3/8 provides more flow and possibly more mechanical strength to work with.
Smokey Yunick, I believe it was... one year racing rules put a cap on fuel tank capacity. That was the year he switched to 2" fuel pipe. Lol
Well they are off! Used a block of wood and some tire irons and they popped right off easily, after a few good whacks. And this is what I found.
GOOD-Some carbon ridge-albeit not all of the way around and just a very slight wear ridge. No major scoring, although there is one spot that can be seen and just barely felt. Standard bore, clean piston tops-more or less and Ford valves in the heads. Not bad for a sub 50K engine.
BAD-some sludge, not much and it will get cleaned out when on the stand. some scale and goop in the antifreeze in the water jackets. Rust on some valve heads but I think that is from sitting in the yard.
Overall, she is in pretty good shape. Next up is to see what the bearing look like. What do you all think? Passenger head/block and then driver side head/block and finally #6 before scraping and after.
Mike
Here #6 before and after scraping
Were the head gaskets steel shim or composition?
Steel, still said fel pro on them. The pic of the driver side block show what the gasket looks like. Only about a finger nails in thickness.
Mike
Looks to me like some head oil passage going on...lot of black cud on top of pistons. Overall though not bad.
Looks good.
Maybe see if any cylinders "drink" fuel oil if poured on top of the piston.
So, since this engine has been opened-at least on the top end so far-it has become a Frankenstein motor. Not that that is bad, but just not what I was hoping for. I checked the numbers on the block, heads, exh and intake manifolds and I get different years. This is what I got:
Block= ECZ 6015C=292/312
Exhaust manifolds R=B9AE, L=EDB (58-59 292 manifolds)
Water outlet=ECE-8/3
Intake=ECZ-9425-B
So my guess is this, the engine is a genuine low mileage 312 (well at least at this point in time) that went to the fairlane I got it out of. But at some point the heads and manifolds got replaced along with the valley pan. The only reason I say this about the pan is that it was designed with a PCV valve in it from the factory. It has a stamped indentation where the valve sits so I don't think it is a later mod.
Mike
If it is a true 312 someone put later low compression truck heads on it. I guess any port in a storm :003:
Got the valley an oil pans off, not to bad. It has 312 caps🎉🎉. Some sludge but not too bad. So as long as the bearings are good, I will regasket her and button her up.
Mike
looking good !
Wasn't the Y block used in some Edsel and Mercury applications after 1957, possibly with low compression heads and detuned hp ratings ?
Quote from: djfordmanjack on 2021-07-18 04:38
looking good !
Wasn't the Y block used in some Edsel and Mercury applications after 1957, possibly with low compression heads and detuned hp ratings ?
Yup, 292 in 59 and 60 along with the FE series.
The trucks had low compression Y's through 1964
I was thinking if a detunded 312 was used in Mercs or Edsels?
While the heads are off, don't forget to clean that groove between the block and the heads. They usually get clogged and that keeps
the oil from going into the heads.
Quote from: djfordmanjack on 2021-07-18 16:36
I was thinking if a detunded 312 was used in Mercs or Edsels?
I have been told that before. This seems to confirm it. And if the smallest engine available in 1956 Mercury was a 312 it would be surprising if Ford thought a 292 would be adequate for the relative tank bodies produced after that, including 1960...
http://www.mercurystuff.com/1960-mercury-engine-transmissions.html
Same site shows y block was produced in Mercury for 1961 and 1962, but not 1963.. 1960 apparently the last 312 and 292 for 61 and 62.
Boring paragraph... in the dark days -when I thought I'd never want to run a Y-Bock again lol- I saved a Y-Block from a wrecked circa '62 350 dump truck. But... it had "big" 4bbl intake and ramhorn exhaust, so probably not original to the truck. Real "snappy" runner. I sort of wondered what it was exactly but never bothered to study it very deep. Engine went into a lift-truck where it ran for years befote it was COMPLETELY worn out, to where it finally wouldn't start except by push. Anyway, then I saved it again, lol, and still have it. It'd be crazy if now it turns out to be "thee" engine. Since I now have peer pressure from y'all maybe I'll finally try to ID it.
Anyway, is the speculation that '60 Merc, and such, could sport factory 312 disguised as 292?
The Mercury site shows the only Y block available in 1960 for a Mercury was a 312. 61 and 62 Mercury only came with 292 as far as Y blocks per that same site. But since engines could have been changed multiple times, the large dot on the crankshaft flange is probably the easiest way to tell a 312 from a 292.
Thanks.
The reason I'm wondering is because I'm thinking of "turning back the clock" on my SBF powered Ranchero, and I have a "ran well" '60 Merc Y.
exactly my thinking, both Ranchers and Mikes Ys could be in fact 1960 detuned Merc 312s. It would be very easy to put on ECZ G or 113 heads and maybe a nice Isky or og T bird spcl cam and have a sweet 312. nice nice nice ! :001:
even though I love the Y, imho. the sweetest engine in a 57 is a SBF. have had 2 before. Not a racer but very reliable power. the lighter SBF is great on handling in a 57. My og Y 57 drives nicely but a SBF equipped would even handle better around curves.
Quote from: Rancher on 2021-07-19 12:58
Thanks.
The reason I'm wondering is because I'm thinking of "turning back the clock" on my SBF powered Ranchero, and I have a "ran well" '60 Merc Y.
I talked to Tim McMaster today about the heads and he has a set of correct 57 ECZ-G heads he can build up for me. So I will swap him my 471 heads for those. For now the engine will stay stock until I restore the car when I retire. Then I will hop it up a notch, just incase I need some extra power suddenly :003:
I read Guenters post and saw his main bearing caps and was shocked to see the shells. I am going to pop mine as well to plasti gauge them and just check them over. I will post some pics next month after I get back from vacation.
Mike
A few years ago I bought a 1958 F-800 fire truck from the city of Columbus Mt. It had 5200 original miles on it, I am sure the motor had a lot more as it had to run the pumps. It was a big Y like you have, I was told it was a 3 something merc. It had not run for about 4 years so I put some marvel mistry oil in the cylinders let it set for a few days and when I started it I looked like a bunch of Indians heading to the fair, man talk about smoke. I sold it to a farmer and he put a box and hoist on it and it is still running great
F-8 was probably a Big Job aka Lincoln "big" Y-Block.
302, 332 and probably offered in another displacement or three.
Edit - thinking again, '58 was dawn of the Super Duty, but obviously it wasn't that; no mistaking one for a Y-Block
Quote from: djfordmanjack on 2021-07-19 13:22
even though I love the Y, imho. the sweetest engine in a 57 is a SBF. have had 2 before. Not a racer but very reliable power. the lighter SBF is great on handling in a 57. My og Y 57 drives nicely but a SBF equipped would even handle better around curves.
I get that, nice accessory drive arrangements, world of power level and transmission options, but still, one last Y-Block with T85 overdrive... :114:
Not sure I'd even kick a 223 to the curb? :002:
I believe I still have a T-85 in my stuff. Once I get my shop sorted out I'll know for sure. should you be in need of one...let me know. Or if I find it first...I'll let you know. :006:
I sure appreciate the offer and the lookout, very kind.
But if someone else is ready for it before me, I'll understand that too.
Thanks
Long time for an update but here it goes. One lower control arm is ready to go in, I need to get another one from a yard and prep it.both upper arms are in and bolted down. I managed to score the plate that goes on the tailgate, so it got installed along with the chrome strips. The pinion gear will get worked this weekend and then hopefully the rear brakes.
I was cleaning the oil pan out-simple green works great on sludge. Then I will have to wipe it out with mineral spirits or gas to get it all out. And I expect to do a few oil changes right off the bat anyhow. But while I was cleaning the pan I found half of a heli coil😱😱. Don?t know where it came from, but am a bit more nervous now. I am going to pop a few caps to check the bearings on the rods and then a few of the mains.
Mike
Well crap. Looks like the engine is getting torn down😢😢😢. I pulled the caps off of 1/5 and found some bad wear patterns. I am no genius that is for sure but know bad wear when I see it. So a main is coming off next but I am already assuming it will be similar.
Differential is back together! Now I just need to start putting the rear brakes on and the then the shocks. One step forward three steps back.
Mike
UGH! Something got into the oil at some point. See you in a couple of days. :burnout:
Doesn't look like it was getting enough oil. The journal and bearing look blueish. Could be the lighting to I suppose.
From here, as far as "just a freshen up" goes, so far it still looks like a bearing roll-in is all it needs.
Be nice to find +.001 or +.002 shells; probably not likely anymore.
I have ordered a 2-3" mic so that I can check the rod journals, hopefully they are round and normal-i.e. not an odd size to require a regrind of the crankshaft. I also check the first three rod bearings for wear and they have come back around .002 in wear. So I am thinking that the rest will be similar, but I will still check them. Then I will order a set of bearings from Mr. Mummert and put her back together. Sept. or Oct. I will get need heads made up and install the new water pump. I still need to try and get the dizzy unstuck but I a have two back ups just in case. I really only need one back up so may sell of the other, but what are they worth-needs a full rebuild of course.
Mike
Well I checked all of the rod journals and found the crank to have been turned once. If I read the numbers correctly she is about 12 under now. I have one side of the diff brakes installed, I just need to repair the parking brake system to get the spring compressed enough to finish the brakes and install the drums🎉. Still trying to find a lower drivers side control arm.
Mike
I had a productive weekend finally on Betty-well mostly productive. Got her shocks installed (giant pain in the butt and I didn't have the tank in), Got all the rod bearings changed out but I would like to order new rod nuts and then the bottom end will be done and ready to button up. She will need a new bottom end in about 5k judging from the top rod bearing, the crank is worn just enough that the clearances a on the loose side. But she will run fine for what I need right now. The new water pump is installed, so now the engine just needs new heads, fuel pump and carb rebuilt and she should be good to go! The steering components are at the re-builder awaiting their turn now. I have a new lower A arm that I am going to finish up this week and hopefully install the following week.
I finished the front half of the parking brake system but could not get the cables hooked up because the new reproduction adjusting rod I bought is about 6" to short compared to the original. I think that once I get an original in there I will be all set to finish that part and then finish the rear brakes-and then I hope to put the rear drums on!!!!!! The spring inside the drum area I believe needs to be really compressed as you can see it bulging down at the bottom. I also installed the new MC and am just waiting to get the long line in, then the brake system will be done and I can fill her up. Question, the MC did not come with a clip to hold the push rod in the piston like the original one did. I s that normal now? It isn't going anywhere I know but was just curious.
Mike
I remember having an issue with the e-brake cable reproduction hardware, not positive what it was but very well could have been a too-short threaded rod.
This might be the reason why?..I need a new one.
Mike, did you pull the cable forward enough ? As you mentioned the springs inside the drums are still bulging, so this takes away maybe an inch or 2 cable length.
remember that adjustment is done with a threaded nut on the FRONT cable !
Hi G, yep I pulled as hard as I could. I even used. Vice grips to pull even further, all I did was flatten the cable out. Not a good thing to do. Everything is a loose as I could make it and I was still about three inches short.
As mentioned, I recall having the same issue, Gunter. Mike is correct, the repopped threaded rod is inches shorter than the oem.
Lol, Mike..get some shoes on and get an extension welded on to the new rod.
Difficult to see in the picture...
are the brake shoes installed in their correct primary (short lining, front) secondary (long lining, rear) locations?
MY new shoes came as all one length. I know they are supposed to be two different lengths but when I asked at NAPA he said that is how they come now. I honestly never understood why there were two different lengths. I assume there is a reason.
Mike
The theory of operation is that the lining of smaller area engages the drum with more pressure (psi) and the reaction engages the other shoe into the drum via the adjuster. A self-energizing effect, more brake application for a given hydraulic pressure.
Didn't somebody on here have a problem with the brake lining separating from the shoe? I think the consensus was to try stay away from bonded brake linings.
I remember that...only I thought it was a riveted shoe. But then...my memory isn't always as premium as it used to be...a lot of lower octane memory cells these days. :-\
It was a bonded set of shoes and if I remember right they were the ?less expensive? shoes. Not sure why the glue would be any different though. I picked up a set of 66 T Bird parking cables today to check if they will work. The spring section is considerably shorter than the ones I have in there. So I will compare the two and see if they work🤞.
Mike
I believe the member who had problems with bonded shoes was djfordmanjack. There was another member that also had problems but his name escapes me.
yes, that was me. obviously bad glue prep and rust kreeping under the linings:
http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=8352.0
Several members said they had observed such, also Gary I think ( gasman826) among others.
Over all the years that I had used both riveted and bonded shoes I have never seen the metal part rust. I don't know what the plating is. Most of the new shoes sold today are made in Mexico and probably some off shore but it makes me wonder what they are using for plating these days. And what the adhesive is?
I am about ready to re-install the lower control arms on my 57 wagon. I have Anti-seized the bolts to death and so far everything fits on the right side. I have to weld a spacer in on the back of the cross member on the left-hopefully tomorrow. But looking at the diagrams in the catalogues, they show three spacers behind the front bolt but in-front of the bushing. I am assuming that the set up gets installed in the following order:
-Bolt
-frame
-spacer
-control arm
-large washer and bolt with lock washer
Is this correct? How many spacers do I need? I did not pull three out of each arm. I think it was only two on each side.
Mike
Drum brakes are "self actuated" in that the friction between the drum and the shoe will pull the shoe into the drum as it turns. That will occur for each shoe if they have opposite pivot points. Since the '57 design uses a single pivot point at the top, the trailing shoe will be "pulled' into the drum as it rotates forward but the leading shoe will be "pushed" away from the drum. This causes unequal braking forces, so to balance these forces the area of the shoe material is different between the two. Hope this helps.
Mike,
The amount of shim/washers can vary with each rebuild due to variations in tolerances of the bushings and A-arms. The "proper" method is to push the A-arm tight against the engine cross member and then add shims to fill any gap at the front bushing. Add enough shims to make it snug since you want the teeth of the bushing to bite in good when you tighten the bolts. Also be sure to not tighten the lower bolts until the car is sitting at ride level with weight on it. Otherwise, the bushings could shear when you hit the first bump.
James
Thank you, I only have about a 1/16" of play front to back the way she is set up right now. I will see if a washer is needed, if not I will bolt her together. I thought it was the upper bushings that needed to be set loose until an engine was in it.
Mike
Boy When Randy at Stanger rebuilding said that I would not recognize my PS parts he was not kidding! The left lower control arm goes in tomorrow and I hope to button up the front suspension this week and add the steering next week.
Mike
Nice work! Look like brand new!!!
The springs are in!!!! I hope I did them correctly, did I install the boot on the lower ball joint right? Next up is steering and shocks.
Mike
Looking great. First I've seen of the rebuilt power steering unit..looks like they did an awesome job.
Well went to install shocks today-KYB 4515's-and found out the don't fit width wise. Then I remembered something about cutting open the bolt holes. So now I have to cut them open and get some big washers for support. Also, went to install the PS system and found out I have to have the idler arm bushings pressed in first, so I need to find a shop to do that. Oh well, at least things are progressing forward and not backwards.
Mike
I think we all have had to do that to the KYBs. Great shock and well worth the little modification.
Ok. what am I missing here? Spring wise I put the front brakes in according to the book. But that left me with four other springs in the kit. Then I vaguely remember there being a big and small spring in the front brakes. I ended up having to take the set up apart for something else and replaced them with the big spring up front and a smaller brown spring in the rear. I didn't ahve anything to copy as there were no springs on the front brakes when I got her.
Thanks,
Mike
The blue spring "left over", is for self adjusting linkage, which 57s did not have. The spring kits are often made for multiple applications, so your kit must have included extra parts for a different newer vehicle, that came from the factory with self adjusters.
That is what I figured or the blue one. Just not sure about the brown one.
Mike
Ok. I got a kit for the front brakes from the local T Bird store and it is slightly different spring wise. I can even upgrade to self adjusting shoes later if I want to. I also picked up my PS steering components after I had new bushing pressed in. So either later this week or next week it will go in.
I also email KYB about there shocks and they said that is the correct shock but not to open up the bolt hole area. But they did recommend a different shock that is about 10mm wider where the bolts go. So I ordered a set and will see how they mount up. They are essentially the same shock but I think they are about 1/4" shorter in total travel and 15% stiffer. I will let you all know about them next week.
Mike
Progress! I have brakes on both front wheels and as soon as I get another special washer that goes behind the axle nut I can button up the front brakes!!!!
I installed the PS linkage and only found two issues :003:. I apparently reverses the bushing and installed the long bushing in the center link with the short one in the bracket. I only figured that out when I looked at my spare set up. I also noticed that I believe I have a manual steering idler arm installed. The spare looks different, so how/why they installed a manual arm I have no idea. So I will soon have steering capabilities!
Mike
Ok, the KYB 4515 shock which are correct according them aren?t quite correct as people have said. I wasn?t totally in agreement with cutting open the blade ends of the shock and as a matter of fact KYB said not to do that.
So I emailed them and they suggested a slightly different shock. 4752 fits Toyota trucks and is almost identical in length and stroke. It is about 10mm shorter but has about 15% more damping according to their tech dept. Here is the nice part though, the over all width of the blade is the same but the holes where the bolts go are 10mm wider. So this shock is a direct bolt in without having to modify the shock at all. So tomorrow I will bolt them in and see how they fit. I won?t know how they handle for several months but I wanted to pass this info along if it has not been passed along before.
Mike
Good to know, thanks. I honestly can't see an issue with cutting the slots to be honest, regardless of what they said. What difference could it make if we did it or they did it? Possibly just a self-protection thing against lawsuits in case somebody really butchered the job.??
Rich, it appears to make sense though. If I understand this correctly, the closed eye shocks have a narrow hole center distance. if you cut that open to move the bolt holes further out. there will be parts of the old holes still open and visible next (inside) to the factory bolts. so this shock could shift side to side, and worst case, may tear or brake the weaker inner parts. Opposed to a correct bolt pattern where the hole center distance fits snuggly around the bolts. just saying.
Good progress, Mike !
I was concerned also about the possibility of shifting but so far after 15,000 miles I haven't had any problem..
As Lynn knows, I did have one come loose on my trip to Florida....... he fixed it for me, BUT, as I later found out I was having issues with lots of stuff on my control arms coming loose after a shop I used apparently forgot to tighten everything when installing new ball joints, so I'm not sure what to attribute the loose shock to, and now I'm wondering if this is a good run-on sentence??
update: I made a mistake in reading the KYB email. They said it was ok to open up the blades on the shocks. I was able to get one shock in today (I have to clean the bolts up on the other side) and it fits quite well. Here is their reply:
Hi Mike,
We haven?t had this issue before, but if you have the tools to do so, you would be safe to use a file to widen the mounting holes (along the length of the t-bar) so that they match up better with the bolting points on the vehicle frame. Don?t drill out the holes though so you can use the same bolting points.
KG4752 is very similar to KG4515, but the holes in the mounting bar are about 10mm (3/8?) further apart so it could be a better fit. Only thing is that the damping rate is about 15% higher than KG4515, so you will have a firmer ride as a result.
Regards,
Technical Support
KYB Americas Corporation
techsupport@kyb.com
__________________
Ok, since the bottom half of the car is coming to a close-slowly but moving along-I am thinking about the next project on the car. The heads are in the shop and I just dropped the tranny off for a rebuild, so in a month or so I will get the heads and tranny back along with a rebuilt fuel pump. Here are my thoughts, I will keep plugging away on the engine slowly but the focus I think is going to be the glass-all of it has to come out in some form and be replaced and the floor pans.
I have watched videos of people replacing glass with the rope method but quite frankly I am still nervous. I just don't want to break any of it since I have not done this before. I am expecting there to be rust and having to cut and weld. How hard is it to replace the gaskets for the front and rear windows? is there a step by step procedure? I kind of have to get this done if we move to the NW next summer. All of the gaskets have chunks missing from them.
Mike
If at first you don?t succeed, use a bigger F?ing tool! Got the distributor out-not happy about how I did it but it is out and in one piece. Also buttoned up the passenger side brakes.
Mike
I temp installed the PS components today and it looks like everything is going to function properly. I just need to know how to tell which long tie rod goes on which side? I know they are marked left and right but I don?t know which number goes on which side.
Mike
Well?.I was going to give Tim McMaster my cam as a core when I pick up the heads next month. Now I am going to give home the whole engine instead. Went to pull the cam out and it jammed up on me. Looked at the lifters, nope all down, looked around a bit more and found that the center cam bearing came out cock eyed. And in more than one piece I think. Sooooo, the engine is going in😢😢😢. I wasn?t planning on doing a total rebuild of the power train yet. But I guess I am.
mike
One wheel down one to go tomorrow and then the front brakes and suspension will be done-minus the sway bar. I put self adjusters on both fronts and eventually the rears as well. Question, I bought a new tank from Auto city classics and it is a bit smaller dimensionallly than my original. Is there supposed to be this much slack in the straps or should they be tight all the way around. At this point I am planning on adding some rubber to take up the slack.
Mike
Sadly I have done more tanks than I ever wanted to. UGH!
They need to be more tight than that. And the idea of putting rubber between the straps and the tank is a good one. I actually had one that had worn a bit of a leak in the corner of the tank where the strap had rubbed over years. I have used heavy duty inner tubes from trucks and made my own.
The brakes look great! Nice and clean and colorful. Progress!!! :003:
Yep, should be really tight and with rubber in between the tank and straps. There should also be something between the tank and the trunk floor to prevent possible sparks The OEM stuff was like tar paper. I used the self adhesive insulation sheeting leftover from insulating my car's cabin. worked out great.
Also, couldn't tell from the pic if your straps are new or just sandblasted, but when I ordered my Tanks Inc tank, I also ordered ss straps from them, and they came with the rubber strips.
Thanks Rich, forgot about the car type paper. Those are the original straps and kinda banged up from moving them around. It will come back out when I pull the diff to change out the springs. Then I can add the paper to the top.
Mike
Just got my new McVeigh leaf springs for my wagon. Do I need to do anything to them lube or spacer wise before installation?
Mike
There is a rubber isolater that may need to be replaced, I got mine from Rubbertherightway. The springs will have new front bushings but not the shackle bushings and should probably be replaced.
The fit of the gas tank is interesting, maybe the wagons are different, but the new gas tank from Auto City for my 59 2 door sedan, was actually on the tight side. When I ordered the tank, I also ordered new mounting straps at the same time, but they were quite different , and would not work, so I cleaned and reused my original straps. For the top, and along the inside surface of the straps, I used a fairly thin section of foam rubber, and cut pieces to fit. Also, on my sedan, the front of the straps hook into slots in a crossmember, with threaded hooks that attach at the rear. Where the hooks clipped into tabs on the rear frame crossmember, the end of the hook wanted to dig into the top of the new tank, so I had to trim the ends of the hooks shorter to gain some clearance. Also, my filler neck , which is welded to the tank on the regular car models, was nowhere near fitting in the center of the gas door , so I had to use a long bar, to bend the neck up, and more to the center . It is centered now, and 1 1/2 years later , has been working great. My tank did not come with a gas cap, and since my old cap was pretty rusty, I tried local auto parts stores to find a new cap, with little luck, as the angled "ramps" on the old Ford tanks was deeper than the 60s Fords, I was able to find a locking gas cap that kind of fit, but required excessive pressure to make the tabs lock into place. I did by a new cap from Dennis Carpenter that fits properly, although I believe it was for an earlier model Ford, maybe a 56?
As for the leaf springs, I bought my springs from a local spring shop, but they came with McVeigh stickers on them. They did have the new front bushings pressed in, but no rear shackle bushings. Since they were so inexpensive, I ordered a pair of new shackles, which came with the bushings, from Carpenter as well. The springs came painted with the plastic like insulators in place, so I just installed them with no additional lubrication. Also, since I will be racing my car on occasion, I did not use any insulators between the leak spring and the axle housing, just metal to metal, with new U Bolts. Works just fine.
Got the springs and the diff out today. Everything cam out easily😱. Only issue is that one U bolt had stripped threads so will need a new one. Now I just need to figure out a way to secure the diff so I can pop the axles out and replace the seals. Then back to the front end to swap backing plates and put two new tires on!
Mike
Wagon/Ranchero seals are different from passenger cars, I had a hard time finding them. Everything else is different too, bearings, backing plate, shoes, drums etc.
59 Meteor reminded me.........on the fit of the gas tank.......I had to massage the filler neck also to be centered, but a very easy chore. I also remember the rear hooks digging in and needing some shortening. I did something different on the front hooks though that worked out quite nicely regarding the slots that the J hooks fit into. I didn't like the J hooks actually. Those slots are in a double brace an inch or so apart if I remember correctly. I made a setup using eye bolts that pivoted on a spacer made from heavy wall tubing. The spacer was cut to fit snugly inside that double wall bracket and ran a bolt thru the spacer with the eyebolt slid on. It seemed like when I tried to reuse the J hooks, they were fighting me in that they wanted to pop out of the slots. The eyebolts swinging on the spacer eliminated that.
I also can't remember if I just used the slots for the spacer/bolt (if there were in fact slots in both sides) , or if I had to do some drilling.
Hiball, how are the seals different? They should be the same since ford went to the 9? diff that year. The brakes I know about. I got seals from Napa but won?t know if they work until I pop the axles out. I am trying to figure out how to crib the diff so that it doesn?t slide on me when I start pulling/banging away with a drum to pop the axle out. Any ideas?
Mike
The axle ends are larger for the larger bearing the best I remember and require a larger seal. I used National 51098
Yes there are two sizes and I think I got the correct larger size at Napa. Will find out as soon as I pull an axle.
3280 is right, 3281 is left. (B7A-A)
Ron.
Following to see how this comes out. Generally, 28 spline, 9" and 8" axles are 1.553" ID. The hard part is the seal OD. 2.085" is common but could vary. Big and small bearing often use the same seal. There are two ID sizes for 31 spline axles (shouldn't be an issue for stock '57s). Best practice is save the number off the old seal.
OD on the wagon/ranchero seal is 2.5 ID 1.5
Well, got the seals replaced on the differential, then had an accident. The diff rolled off of the jack and landed upside down. Fortunately, it was only about 6? off the ground and I didn?t see any damage. But they were the original leather seals and probably were still good but just wanted to make sure.
Got the front brakes done-finally. So the only thing left on the front end is tighten up the steering parts and try to install the sway bar. Speaking of which, how does one do that? She is on stands now and everything is connected but hanging down. It looks like I need to ?bend? the bar a bit to get it fit in the lower control arm.
Hoping this week to get the rear springs and diff installed and order some tires. Won?t be the best tires as they will probably age out before I get anywhere close to running out of tread.
Mike
Its much easier to install the sway bar with the control arms at ride height. My Addco sway bar ordered in April from Jeggs is susposed to arrive this week. We'll see how its installation goes.
Ok, I have a bottle jack that I can use on one side and then the other.
I was glad to see the factory bar go, they are almost worthless..
Thomasso, that is crazy to have to wait 7 months for a part that would have been about 2 or 3 weeks out before all this crap started. I hope I am wrong, but I bet it gets worse before it gets better.
In preparation to take the block and crank to the builder I tore down the rest of the engine today. Not all that bad actually. The cylinders and pistons were in really pretty good shape, same with the crank. The cam bearings on the other hand were all shot beyond belief.
Mike
I would say someone got their monies worth out of those cam bearings...and then some. Guessing the cam is not in very good shape anymore either then. OUCH!
Ok, got the diff and new springs in. According to the manual it should diff, metal spacer holder, rubber spacer, spring, rubber spacer, metal spacer holder then shock pad.
Now my 57 wagon didn?t come with any of these spacer things. I am going to add them IF they should be there from the factory. My questions are these:
1) if installed, how does the diff keep from shifting front to rear? Will the U bolts keep it from sliding?
2) how do I install the top metal spacer holder? I can install the rubber pad, just not the spacer as it would force the diff spring pad to sit up about 1/8?.
Thanks.
Mike
I can't remember which has the holes and which have the pins, but all of those components align using that hole and pin to keep it from shifting. That's why that sheet metal retainer plate has the hole.......as would lowering blocks.
Honestly, I'm totally confused by your 2nd question..
I will have to take a better pic to show you how the diff pin wont sit down in the metal plate.
Mike
Figured it out, the parts I have are for a T Bird so the metal plates won?t fit. So I am going back to the way she came from the factory without rubber insulators.
Mike
Rolled her out today! Minus a few things that still need to get put back on. But she is on her wheels!!! That is the dirt I hosed out of her engine bay. She does lean to the left a bit if you look at her.
Mike
Nice pics! LOL!!!
But seriously...congrats! It has been over 40 years since I finished the front suspension on mine...(haven't gotten any further than that but that's another story for another day)...and the feeling was grand. Good for you!
Ok, small update. Rear shocks are now in and bolted down, along with the differential. I was able to get the right rear brakes installed and the parking brake cables set up a bit more on the right side. However, when I went to install the left rears the parking brake lever actuator split on me when I was trying to crimp in the new cable. Does anyone have a spare left lever they would sell me?
Mike
Update, The tranny crossmember is out and the tranny will come out tomorrow and be set aside. I figured out that Fords quality was NOT job #1 in the 50's. I will have to rethread all of the bolt holes and one of the caged nuts in the frame has come out. So, I have to choices-let it rattle around or try and epoxy it in as my 110 welder isn't strong enough to tack it down.
The new tranny is ready to go in and the engine is done and will be picked up on monday. Still having problems with the parking brake cables so am going to have to modify the spring by shortening it about two inches. The tank is ready to go in I just need to run the long lines. After the tank is done and lines run I will start in on the glass, seals felts etc. I will slowly put the engine back together, paint her and stuff her in probably next month.
Mike
There are threaded inserts you can buy to replace the ones that were in the frame. I used them...just drove them in. They will not move. However...because I am anal...we also welded them to the frame at 12-6-9-3. They won't be going ANYWHERE. Got them at Fastenal I believe. There are also several companies on E-Bay that sell various sorts...if you want to wait for shipping. :006:
great progress Mike, you are really moving forward in a quick pace !
Thank you Guenter. I hope to be like you one day just cruising around the country in my wagon-with the wife of course. I am slowly getting there.
Mike
Just picked up my new engine from Tim and she shore is purty! Now to figure out how to get her out of the car and onto the stand.
Original tranny is out. It took me an hour and half to separate the bell housing because of all of the dirt/concrete around the bolt heads.
Mike
Well, she is on a stand now!
Ok. got two questions now:
1) Best way to paint the engine. All at once with heads, manifolds, water pump etc. attached or separately?
2) What is the best way to get the engine and tranny in the car safely? Here is what I was thinking, bolt engine (minus heads and intake/carb) to tranny and stuff that way. Tim said to bolt everything up and then stuff. I am just trying to do this with a standard 2 ton hoist and with the arm all the way out I am at the .5 ton mark I believe. She sits pretty low so dropping the heads on the engine after the install not great but very doable.
Thanks,
Mike
If the front end is off the car it'll be easy.
If not...packing blankets on the back of the engine and tranny...and a LOT of patience and another set of hands.
Painting...I like to paint with the heads on...tape every thing off I don't want to have paint. Paint all the bolt on stuff individually other than the heads.
If you put the heads on after you drop the engine in...you can cheat a bit...take the front wheels and tires off...set the car down on blocks...and it will make it easier to lean in and put heads on. Your back will be happier. :003:
Well....the front end is still on and I will have another set of hands maybe two sets if I can get them. I will also raise the rear of the car abit to change the entry angle of the tranny.
Mike
That will help. Take the hood off...LOL!!!
Pizza and root-beer are an asset as well...A&W or Hires...Remember though...if you are doing this with the tranny on...you need to be sure to have plenty of room under the front floorboards...for the tranny to move around.
What motor are you putting in? I forgot. to be honest...I put 352 heads on mine...at normal height and then the intake...and while it was a bit of a task...it wasn't horrid.
I had to borrow my next-door neighbor's cherry picker because mine wasn't long enough with the sheet metal on. The bumper was hitting the hoist's braces and ended up being almost a foot short. Doing some measuring should tell you, but if your's happens to be a fold-up Harbor Frieght, I can tell you it won't be long/deep enough. I was doing it alone, and found out the hard way the engine will start swinging and maybe give the car some battle scars. I solved that problem by using ratcheting straps on both sides of the engine back to the hoist.
Thanks Rich,
I think my hoist if from home depot and it has some really long legs. I will check the depth of it when I roll her out of the garage maybe next week or month.
I put them in as complete as possible less the fan blade.. The less leaning over fenders, the better. '57s do not lend themselves to easy transmission with engine installs but doable. I install the engine separate from the transmission but I have a hoist to ease the transmission install. If I had no hoist, I would install engine/transmission as one assembly. The core support is not that hard to remove but not necessary. I take the time to use a 4 point attachment device with the long screw in it to tilt and level the engine. More control is better whether with a device or more hands. I always install by myself and don't like pinched fingers or scratched paint.
Thanks Gasman, if I had a manual I would have no problems installing the tranny separately, but I have an automatic. And I don't have a tranny jack, I may be able to rent one though. I will end up getting one of those screw angle adjuster thingies from HF probably. I am going to probably hang the tank tomorrow and then I will roll the car out Sat. and measure things out. Just got the Dampener back today the Dudes did a great job on it. Just am waiting on the dist. to get rebuilt, I get that back in a week or two.
Mike
Since you have the front sheetmetal on, and have no hoist or transmission jack, if it was me, I would install the automatic transmission first, once the rear mount is attached to the transmission cross member, a floor jack under the pan will allow you to adjust the height and angle, so as the engine goes in, you can make minor adjustments as needed. From 1980 thru 86, I worked at a high volume engine rebuilding shop (300 engines a month), as a engine Re & Re guy, and we always did the engine replacements on the floor, with the front end up on jack stands, leaving the transmission in place. We found this to be the quickest and easiest method to do it, at least on the mostly domestic RWD or 4x4 carburated V8 vehicles that we were working or at that time. I recently puled the 428 FE and 4 speed out of my 59 for some winter upgrades, and since the 57-59s have fairly narrow hood openings and wide fenders, I decided to remove the front clip for improved access. It is only 7 or 9 bolts, plus the front bumper, depending on the year of the car, gives so much more room to work, plus eliminates possibly denting or scratching the fenders. Also, with the rad support and bumper gone, the engine does not need to be lifted very high, and the front interference is greatly reduced.
59?.I have a hoist just not a tranny jack. But if I can get the front sheet metal off with just a few bolts that is a good option. Where are these bolts located? If it in the regular 57 manual?
Mike
going from memory:
two screws/bolts up near the windshield.......one on the cowl and the other under the door when open (big sheet metal screw).
one bolt is accessible from behind the interior side kick panel.......may be a nut on a stud???)
one bolt underneath (rocker area)
one bolt on the backside of the inner wheel well about 1/2 way up
One special shoulder bolt under the center of core support. Make notes here or take pics. as to where the shims go (over or under. This is where the height of the whole front clip is adjusted, and the same number of total shims must be used always.......just depends on each individual car whether they go over or under. Don't lose that bolt...no one makes replacements that I'm aware of.
If you have not already. You have to pull some of the wiring along the inner fenders and core support on both sides before pulling the front end off.
Use some on blaster on the center lower front bolt and try not to break the stud from the whole bolt. It's like a stepped pin with a stud molded into the end.
If the lower fender bolts doesn't come loose you have an backside access hole there to grab the cage nut. Sometimes it breaks loose from holding. Some penetrant oil like kroil or just plain ATF will help loosen the bolts.
I would say at the point you have the front doghouse off on a car. You can clean up the firewall a bit. And might as well do the heater work. The steering box stuff too.
Ok, so I got the tank hung yesterday. I got her down tight but the new tank is a bit smaller than the original so there is some slop in the middle ?.. and I added rubber to fill in the gap.
Tomorrow the heads get bolted down and I start running the long lines for gas and brake.
So I got my heater core out for a rebuild/replacement. Found out I have what is called a ?dole? style heater control valve. I would like to replace it with a valve that is inline and inside the engine compartment. How do I do that? Obviously I need a new core (either have mine modified and rebuilt or a new early mustang one) but I don?t have a vacuum set up for the port to open or close the valve. Does someone have pics or a description I can work off of. Better yet, what parts did you use.
Thanks
Mike
Mike, it appears as if you have the factory heater setup, not the dealer install or aftermarket version. I really can't figure out if your heater core is upside down or if the photo is.
Dole is just an aftermarket manufacturer of the valve, yours looks like an og vacuum assisted water valve, but has been modified omitting the vacuum diaphragm and vac valve. maybe somebody used a mechanical water valve in the water hose or on the engine.
The spare parts for the valves can get pricey, but I have to say that the factory 57 Ford heater works extremely well and can be regulated literally by the touch of a finger, it is really smooth and sort of a mechanical temp control ( there is a bi-metal 'thermostatic' spring on the vacuum valve). It is well worth restoring imho.
here is a pic of my serviced unit, original to car and date coded to the og build.
(https://up.picr.de/42712665kf.jpg)
(https://up.picr.de/42712666zm.jpg)
(https://up.picr.de/42712667ec.jpg)
(https://up.picr.de/42712668jv.jpg)
(https://up.picr.de/42712669it.jpg)
here is a larger resolution pic to see the valve set up. when you order these, you have to order the water valve part ( the large water neck with the diaphragm on) and a seperate vacuum valve part (which is activated by the heater cable and supplies/limits a certain amount of vacuum to the diaphragm).
There is also a valve that doesn't need a vacuum source, thats what I use. They are harder to find.
I'm diggin that coffee cup. Where did you get it?
Thanks DJ,
The photo is on its side (I gave up trying to fix them when I post them). Thanks for the photos that helps a lot figuring out what I am missing. It looks like someone modified the original valve to omit the vacuum part and ditched the cable part as well. I have a NOS vacuum valve and ordered a new gasket so I will have to see about a new temp regulator. The reason I wanted to put the valve in the engine comp. was for leakage. But if a new gasket and some RTV will make sure it doesn't leak I will stay with the original.
Mike
Quote from: rmk57 on 2021-12-27 14:25
I'm diggin that coffee cup. Where did you get it?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
LOL!!! All the info on this heater issue...and the coffee cup scores a mention! LOL!! Gotta love it! :003:
hahaha....The coffee mug I found on 'tea'bay :002: , I believe it came from a British vendor. They specialize in printing vintage auto and aviation advertisements.
Mike, As you may have seen the repro heater core in my pics, but I decided to use the original one with the old style copper webbing. ( I did a leak test with 15 psi of air pressure applied to hoses and core dumped in a bucket of water).
Here is how the water neck/diaphragm body is mounted to the core. Once you have a nice fitting rubber gasket and use plenty of good quality sealant, this should be trouble free for many years. I know we all hate coolant leaks on our new carpet, but imho the original Ford design is quite good and safe. Like I mentioned before, it has the benefits of the bi metal vacuum control spring, which more or less holds the heat temperature at a constant level.
Here is another pic of how the neck attaches. make sure to thoroughly clean out old scale, debris or sealant. I used a Dremel with a little steel wire wheel.
That is also a nice heater valve, Jim. Is that a direct replacement? Never seen one like that before. It also appears to have some sort of mechanical bi metal or thermostatic ( core filled?) spring.
I think the reason I am speaking so much for the vac assist, is that the heater is probably the only fully restored thing on my driver quality wagon, and it's probably the best working part of the whole car.... :003:
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2021-12-27 13:01
There is also a valve that doesn't need a vacuum source, thats what I use. They are harder to find.
It is a core filled thermostatic expansion style valve. That is what was on my car. I found a guy who can refurbish that style of valve and i think i have his info. These valves are factory but I don't know when the change was made and if the thermostatic valve replaced the vacuum type or it was the other way around. I tried to use the vacuum style but I didn't like the vacuum line.
Quote from: djfordmanjack on 2021-12-28 04:12
That is also a nice heater valve, Jim. Is that a direct replacement? Never seen one like that before. It also appears to have some sort of mechanical bi metal or thermostatic ( core filled?) spring.
G, I'm not sure why some cars had this type, like Lynn said maybe a change somewhere along the line and I like having as few vacuum lines as possible. This type was on my original heater but had some leak issues. The one I have now I got from Jay and put it on a new heater and it works great.
If I stay with the original set up what sealer are you using on the little gasket?
Mike
I am using Innotech Easy Gasket, but that most probably is not available in the US. it is a high temperature and gas/oil/coolant resistant black natural rubber compound. I have used this on nearly every engine and car related component possible with great results. works like a charm on coolant hoses, thermostat housings aso.
You mentioned coolant hoses.........do you use a sealant on them? Radiator hoses?
Might as well try the permatex Right Stuff. I been using this stuff a year or so and it works great.
Yeah it's a bit pricier. But it you look up innotech stuff mentioned above the price is about the same. Also he is right that is from Europe only.
FYI in a pinch most of the heater housing gaskets are foam. You might get away with checking out the foam seals section at Home Depot and making some some. Just a thought. I need to tackle this same heater project on my hardtop.
Got some more things done to Betty today. Put some primer on the engine and intake, this will probably take the whole week and I will paint next week. Started running the fuel line as well. Had my heater core rebuilt and there was confusion-no big deal really. But he welded up the original heater valve-it is broken in the open position. So, I need to install the heater control valves in the engine compartment now. What is the best routing for a new cable and where is the best place to install it? I am thinking on the pass fender for both items.
Mike
When I did my heater I used a core that fit a lot of ford cars and vans from the late 70's and early 80's. I mounted the valve on the passenger fender and ran the control cable thru an existing hole in the firewall that was left of the heater. I mounted the valve towards the back of the inner fender which was a mistake. It looks and fits good but puts to much of a bend in the operating cable which causes the cable to bind some if I have the heater wide open. If I did it again I would move the valve forward. I had to move one of the holes slightly for the new heater core nipple. The control cable was just a long choke cable that I cut to length. I am in Arizona for the winter so I can't get any pictures.
These are the CarQuest part numbers and the price from six years ago. The part numbers should be the same as Advance Auto.
399025 Heater core $25.94
74627 Control valve $19.99
55207 Cable $9.46
Thanks GLR,
where did you hook the cable up on the dash? Were you able to use the stock heater controls or did you have to use a different location?
Mike
I used the stock heater control. The cable has a coiled loop on both ends that just slip over a stud and are held in place by a clamp. The part number for the cable I listed is for a choke cable. I cut the end off that has the knob on it and put a coil on that end. I made the coil by clamping a steel rod in my vice and just wrapping the cable wire around it. I thing the steel rod was 3/16" but I am not sure of that. I would mount the cable to the heater control, feed the cable thru the firewall, have someone hold the cable in place where you think you want to route it and then operate the control to make sure there is no binding. I didn't do this and the cable has an area were there is a bend that causes some binding. If the heater valve was just a few inches forward on the fender this wouldn't happen.
Thanks, figured that was the case. I just have not pulled the controls yet.
Mike
Took advantage of the sun today.
Looks like ya missed yer callin' in life...should have been a painter! :003: Looks good buddy!
Bit slow lately but still making progress. I am waiting for a fitting to finish the tank line install and then back to the long brake line-hoping to not cut it short this time :002:. Got the radiator fixed and installed, the PS pump is on its way back, the Gen/starter are in the shop and the intake is now bolted down. The carb is cleaned up but the throttle plates were frozen so it is taking several days of PB blaster to free them up. Will get my rebuilt distributor back this weekend, in the meantime I ordered a NAPA one-and you guessed it short dist shaft so it will go back.
Finally got the heater box out so will clean them up and paint them and reinstall with a new heater core. Then I will ask a boat load of questions about installing the engine and tranny just to make sure I don't forget anything. That is all for now. I will post pics in the next few weeks of the progress.
Mike
Ok, so here is the situation as it stands right now. I have three things left to do before I stuff the engine-I think:
1) replace the exh manifold to pipe studs.
2) replace gasket behind oil filter adapter
3) Reinstall heater box/hoses
Anyone else think of anything that needs to be done before stuffing the engine and tranny? I am shooting for the last weekend of the month. And hoping to fire her up a few weeks later just for run/breaking/ leak test/adj for timing and carb etc. Not actually getting her out on the road.
Mike
Windshield wiper tor installed and checked to make sure everything works well? Easier to do when you are standing in the engine compartment as opposed to bending over the fender. Just a thought...
Wish I could be there when you fire it up! :003:
If you took off the front fenders to do this work you might as well check the cowl vent rubbers.
I forget if you did or didn't.
I also don't recall if you did the brake line/master up front or not.
Did you finish up with the heater box?
Abe, thanks for reminder about the drains, fenders did not come off so will have to do those blind. Finishing the long brake lines up now. Nice wagon you got!
Mike
There are three screws that hold the flange for the cowl drains. They can be reached without taking the fenders off. Just a real pain in the butt! I did this on the wagon I had. Putting the new ones in was a bit more challenging though. Many words that shouldn't be spoken were used in that evolution!
Quote from: 1930artdeco on 2022-02-11 05:04
Abe, thanks for reminder about the drains, fenders did not come off so will have to do those blind. Finishing the long brake lines up now. Nice wagon you got!
This is what I did for the cowl drains with the fenders on. Didn't need to deal with any hard to reach screws, as I recall they weren't there anyway The pix have text for clarification. Didn't use any rubber so it wont deteriorate and will last for a very long time.
http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=3895.msg65607#msg65607
Thanks Tom, That saves me from going back through my pages to find it.
Mike
Tom's solution is awesome, I'll be checking my CS and probably doing the same!
Yep, buying supplies this weekend and maybe installing as well.
Well been footing along slowly and here is what I have done so far.
1) Installed all of the brake lines so just need to fill and bleed now:)
2) Got the PS pump back and it is a few pounds lighter now that the dirt has been blasted off. Stanger rebuilding did a great job!
3) Carb is rebuilt
4) Heater box is ready to go, I just need to epoxy in a bolt and in it goes.
5) I was trying to remove the exh. manifold to pipe studs and broke one:mad::mad: but once I get them replaced and the oil filter adapter screwed back on the engine can go in:):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):).
Then on to ordering parts and getting ready for a move.
Mike
I FINALLY got the engine and tranny in!!!!!!!🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉took us four hours and a lot of new vocabulary words.
Congrats! Looks good in there! :003:
Update: I have the parking brakes and rear shoes adjusted and working! The hydraulics...I seem to have issues making the flares on the tubes as there are two that seem to leak just a bit from the nut:(. One is the long tube so that is a problem, the other is a short one. I also got the hood installed but for some reason cannot get it to latch. I had the original latch on and it would just bounce off the fingers. So I tried a 59 that I have and the "L" bar goes in but it won't stay latched. Any suggestions? At this point I am done working on her as I am getting her ready for a move to the PNW!:)))))
Mike
On the latch. Oil or lube the assembly that catches. Also make sure your pull cable is all the way in when trying to close the hood. On both of line there is kind of a step on the collar of the pull cable base some times it gets hung on that and it's just enough to not allow the catch to latch. Besides that it would be the adjustment of the cable but at the mechanism. Or if you removed the L bracket from the hood and it's higher up than it should be.
"At this point I am done working on her as I am getting her ready for a move to the PNW!:)))))"
I lived in Socal for 15 years...got out 38 years ago.....sounds like a good move on your part!!
FIFY
(https://i.imgur.com/tYvNXeu.jpg)
OK, so installed my PS pump and realized I need a third pulley. Question is this: can I get away with another PS pulley or do I need to find a three shiv pulley? The car will eventually have PS and AC.
Thanks,
Mike
Well she is out of the garage almost ready for transport. I need to come up with a way to seal up the drivers window. I will probably stick some cardboard in the window and tape the snot out of it.
Mike
looking great Mike!
Not sure if you are into the patina thing at all. but your wagon certainly displays decades of aging and smaller mishaps. It will certainly be a huge winner with the patina fans. Inca gold ages so well. it looks better in patina than new. jmho.
just an old family wagon with brandnew mechanicals = cool !
:iamwithstupid: :003: it looks great!
Thank you, trying to get things fixed up so I can just drive her safely, she will have a lot of patina for awhile. That unfortunately is a year off. But, slowly moving ahead.
She is off and running. So to speak.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2022-04-22 13:38"At this point I am done working on her as I am getting her ready for a move to the PNW!:)))))"
I lived in Socal for 15 years...got out 38 years ago.....sounds like a good move on your part!!
I just left the PNW...it is now the same as CA...no better. Sorry.
In preparation for replacing the body mount rubbers and now apparently most of the bolts I have removed the front bumper. How do I tell if the brackets are bent? Both bumpers came off of 57 wagons.
Mike58FBEB11-BB83-4B16-B07D-B9EE021697BC.jpeg
My advice to you would be to start with a straight bumper, set it on some blocks or jack stands as close to where it should fit even gaps on both sides, and level with the car. Then you can install brackets without too much force or bending.
You could also compare left to right brackets to see how close they are in radiuses. Even though they will not match due to opposing directions, they should be pretty much exact in degree of bend and radius/angles.
Good luck, sometimes it can be a wrestling match to get it perfect if the bumper has been warped or twisted.
Mike. Those are pretty bent up.
For the brackets lay them on some know flat wood or cement and see if the are fairly symmetrical.
I think I might have a extra set. I also have an extra straight/er bumper but the chrome kind of shot.
I've sent straight bumpers off to plating and got slightly warped bumpers back. I think heavy buffing can heat warp them. I use new spring washers and just snug the bolts. Tightening the bolts can pull or dent the bumper.
I have a bead on an allegedly straight bumper. Will verify the brackets with yours all advice. The bumper in the back is the original and still wondering what the heck they did to her.
Mike
Ok, so got the glass out easily. Of course it helps when most of the rubber has turned to oil. I am assuming that when you all said to clean the pinch weld and smooth it over you mean the portion with all of the spot welds. Obviously I have to clean all of the old gasket off first. Alcohol good for that?
Mike
Ok, so I put the gasket on the glass just to form it to glass. Two questions:
1) is there a right and left to the gaskets? I know where the rope is supposed to go and have it on the inside of the car. (I think I answered my question-I think I have the gasket on backwards)
2) will the corners get squished to the glass or do I need to cut and add an adhesive?
Mike
Correction to the correction. Looks like I do have it one correctly. I just compared it to the original gasket and it looks the same. So, I assume the rope trick is on the outside to get it over the rounded body panel and not the pinch weld.
Mike
8875DDAE-9A7B-44F3-BDCD-29CE56E5F4D0.jpegC610D6E1-9587-4ACB-AFA9-BFBA5752CC51.jpeg Got the 1/4 window in! But how do I fix the upper forward corner pucker? Should I use a sealant?
Mike
Sorry had to flip again....
I think we pulled the rope to the inside while I had a soft semi-pointy plastic tool to get the outside lip to seat. The corners are hard to seat. They might pucker a bit. I have one that just wound budge but no water gets in.
Def put them in as one piece. Do not cut them.
On the one I just did most of the pucker is on the inside upper forward corner. Even after I installed the trim piece back in. Today I popped the pass side out and boy does it need a cleaning. The glass under the gasket is the same color as amber. Then just clean the channel out and it will go back in.
I bought a replacement dash and will clean it up and prep it for rewire. When I pull the original dah out I will pop the windshield out and hope and pray to God there is no rust damage. Along with the back glass and lift gate. Wish me luck.
Mike
I would tape the pucker down, if you did use a sealer, put a bit under the pucker and then tape it to see if the rubber sets into shape. but it will take a while.
Update: so far I have replaced both 1/4 windows and the rear glass gasket so now I can see out the back! I also replaced the sway bar with the T-bird one from SW T-Bird and boy is it beefy!!!!!!! Next up is raising the body either this weekend or next week and replacing the body mount rubber/bolts. Then the rewiring commences. Slowly but surely getting there.
I saw you posted on dropping the column, the column drop is supposed to be 1 pice like a C-clamp, but most times they break, what I'm getting it is just down let it hang by one bolt, it might break.
ITs just those two bolts under the dash.
IF you take the dash out from wiring, there a bunch of small bolts around the windshield and some on the lower corners of the dash, also disconnect any accessories like the air dams and the hood pull, hand brake.
adding to Abes advice. if you want to pull the dash and loom. you need to know that the wire loom into the engine bay is one piece with the dash wire loom. if you want to remove it intact you need to pull the whole engine bay loom ( for generator, regulator, horn, starter solenoid, brake light switch, driving lights and headlamp wires. the lights wires have connectors on the inner fenders).
Thanks, guys. Once I get the bolts loose and clamp gone, I am going to use a bungy to hold the column up by the steering wheel. As far as wiring goes I have a spare dash going in that I am going to wire up on the bench. The wiring in the engine bay is mostly gone or hacked up so I m not sure what goes where or does what. So my plan is to wire starting from the back to the front and from the dash to engine. That is the plan......
OK. Need some help and opinion here. I finally got the column unhooked and supported and the instrument cluster out. I am going to use a Ron Francis wiring loom but I don't see light sockets for the instrument panel. most of mine ended as dust on the floor as I was gently removing them. For those that have used their wiring did they come with sockets? Mine did not and I just want to verify before calling them. What did you all use if the socket broke?
Mike, you should be able to find very similar snap in cluster light sockets at Autozone, NAPA....
I used Ron Francis but did not request/get light sockets as I told them I was using aftermarket gauges (built-in lights). If Ron Francis has them available, they will more than likely be of better quality than what you'll find at the parts stores.
Excellent choice going with Ron Francis.
My kit didn't come with light sockets. It came with a very nice-looking light switch and corresponding plug. I couldn't fit the switch to the hole in the panel so had to use the og FoMoCo switch. I next found the prewired, into the fuse panel, "hot" wire wouldn't reach the solenoid. There was no fuse or wire for the Backup lights or the electric fuel pump. RF planned to use the light switch to activate the courtesy lights and no wiring from/to the door activation switches. The wiring for the dimmer switch is setup for a gm switch.
Overall, as far as I've gotten, the kit has been very well made. I don't intend the above comments as complaints, only as things of note.
Terry, I didn't realize apparently some Ron Francis kits use pre-wired fuse panels. Am I understanding you correctly? Which model wiring kit are you using? The Express kit that I used was pretty much overkill in most areas..........ie: enough wire so the panel could be trunk mounted. Mine did not have a relay for the fuel pump either, but it had one for an electric fan that I used for the fuel pump as I had to add a 70 amp fan relay, leaving their panel mounted fan relay unused.
I ordered Ron Francis Express for Ford. The wires were similar to OEM colors. I added an option for a specific, pre-wired steering column connector. I assumed a pre-wired connector for a Ford headlight switch but the default connector and switch was GM. I found out after ordering that I could have requested extra wire length for under hood and trunk wires for console mounted fuse panel. My wires were too short on both ends of the car. Mine had fuel pump and fan relays. I have a lot of toys on this car but I only used one or two of the unlabeled fuses. Armed with the install experience of this RF harness, I wouldn't hesitate to order another.
I also used the Express Kit. I believe that I had said "with back up lights". That's the only one I am bothered about. Rich how/where did you mount the 30 amp fuse and the relay? I am considering mounting an auxiliary distribution block on the inner fender about where the og windshield washer reservoir would've been.
Mike for light sockets on the dash. I wire back in my old ones. The best bet is to find and old looks withFood dash light sockets. Maybe a someone parting a car out. I find hard to pay 5.00 each. The olds one should last long if you rewire the center connection. If you have the old socket, you really just need the spring and a new wire down the center.
If there are local wrecking yards with old cars. You can pretty much go and and pull a bunch of them.
If you want to buy as set see link
https://www.classicchevy.com/chevy-dash-light-sockets-1955-57-171606-1.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=&scid=scplp57-171606-1&sc_intid=57-171606-1&gclid=CjwKCAjwgaeYBhBAEiwAvMgp2p_DICUbRVRmzdqL8FzZhXYe6sO81i2DnLJ7OAv6aLv9T5LW5ogLBRoC1X8QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Quote from: terry_208 on 2022-08-27 00:23I also used the Express Kit. I believe that I had said "with back up lights". That's the only one I am bothered about. Rich how/where did you mount the 30 amp fuse and the relay? I am considering mounting an auxiliary distribution block on the inner fender about where the og windshield washer reservoir would've been.
Terry, I mounted my
70 amp fuse and relay on a small panel mounted to the firewall, on the inside, above and to the right of where the e-brake mounts.I have a good pic somewhere, haven't found it yet, but on the first page of this link, at the top, second pic, you can see the wires looping down below the relay and fuse holder.
https://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=5795.0
Good news on the windshield front: trim was saved with no real dents or bends and there is NO RUST!!!!!. Bad news is I lost the windshield getting it out. I put a little too much pressure in one spot and crack.....☹️☹️. So have two questions: 1) should I order online or locally when they install it. And secondly, how do I get those tiny screws out🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬. I have one that was so rusted I had to drill the head off to get the trim off. I can't get my tiny vice grips on it as there is so little of it left.
The guy that installed my windshield about 11 years ago deliberately broke the little screw tabs off the stainless corner pieces and installed them on the rubber without them.
Get the Dremel with the Diamond bit and shave into a little pit and then find a small enough drill bit to drill it out. Then find a self taping screw that is similar to the originals size.
I would check into the windshields from the same place you got the side glass. Most glass places will just charge a ton more for ordering it from the places. At least know the price and ask the installed a head of time. Also get the rubber too.
Thanks for the tips Abe. I have the gasket already and will ask the local glass company who is going to do the install for a quote on the glass. Looking at two other companies, this was a really big uh oh.....
I am down to one bolt to try and get out and then I can start lifting the body for mount replacement!!!!
Quote from: terry_208 on 2022-08-26 00:30There was no fuse or wire for the Backup lights or the electric fuel pump.
Overall, as far as I've gotten, the kit has been very well made. I don't intend the above comments as complaints, only as things of note.
I was mistaken/wrong. In another bag I found the wiring and instructions for the backup lights.
Have you checked with Auto City Classic? If/when you do, see if they are doing any swap meets in your area for free shipping. aiit takes a lot longer, but saves hundreds on shipping.
If you have a welder, put a small enough nut over the screw remains and weld them together, then you can easily unscrew it with a hex socket. I have literally removed hundreds of rusted/broken screws/bolts with that method. The welding heat also cracks open the rusted solid areas most times.
Quote from: 1930artdeco on 2022-09-03 19:02And secondly, how do I get those tiny screws out
I finally got the last bolt out and will start replacing the rubber hockey pucks this weekend. My questions are this:
1) I saw on here a 58 dealer bulletin that said when replacing the bolts to put the special nut and washer on the bottom instead of the top. I am going to use a starwasher to help lock everything together. Sound good?
2) I need to replace the front and rear floor pans as well. Is the cutting and welding going to hurt the pucks?
Thanks,
Mike
Update:
I got all of the body rubber and bolts replaced! I figured out that either this kit fits multiple bodies which I think it does or Ford let this frame go down the line minus two supports. According to the instructions there should be two supports on the inside frame rail with special washers. My car (57 wagon) only has the rear mount and the special washers were in two different places. One-the passenger side-was in the correct location, the driver side was in the first outboard support :icon_scratch: I replaced everything as is the way it came off the car and the doors still line up and shut plus there was no body shift so I figure I will leave it as is. I do have one question though.
1) The very front bolt-the one that is exposed on the bottom-has a gap between the body and the frame. I replaced everything as it came off the car but I still have a tiny gap. Between the frame and the body there should be a square piece of rubber and a shim. So replaced them but either the rubber is two thin or something else goes in there. I can replace the square piece with the round rubber piece and that will take up the gap for sure as it is really thick. Advice?
Thanks Mike
When you all replaced the front windshield gasket di anyone grind down and smooth out the pinch weld area? Mine is really rough and I just wanted it to be smooth.
Thanks,
Mike
Yeah, Mike,I did. Mine was like a washboard and had burrs hanging on the edges all around from grinding. after stripping to bare metal and treating with zinc phosphate, I filled the low spots with body filler and sanded smooth, and filled the burrs off. I just couldn't see how the rubber seal had any chance of sealing the way it was. I just did it to the outside surface, no need on the inside.
I did that as well. They were really poorly "finished" from the factory!
The Edsel Pacer had a huge lump of body solder one rear window pinch where the quarter and roof were welded together. There is no way it was ever sealed from the factory which caused the rear floor pan to go away.
I have noticed that 'Quality is Job #1' was not in the ethos of Ford back then. But then again I don't think quality was job one anywhere in the 50's. Thanks for the advice I will smooth things out and then paint and prep for a new windshield at the end of the month. Then it is off to rewiring the car!!!!!
Well, I have smoothed out the little sharp spots on the pinch weld area and after feeling it again there were not as many as I initially thought. But will continue to strip it down and prep for paint and then gasket. But, what do people use for the tiny little screw for the trim?
Also, I am beginning the rewire (Ron Francis) process so will be asking a lot of routing and assembly questions-sorry guys for questions that I am sure have been asked before. Since I am starting off with missing original parts, how do you secure the two wires that go from the Regulator (A/B posts?) to the Gen? I know they have to go along the radiator support somehow. I figured the F post out (it goes along the firewall). I am planning to use loom conduit instead of wrapping everything in electrical tape. Or does it come down to make it as clean as possible?
Thanks,
Mike
Never did put the little screws back in. The "L" on the trim keeps it in place very well. The Edsel did not have them and the trim was still in place after many miles. Did not put them in the Ranchero either. No issues so far.
I ended up taking the dash out and am glad I did. I didn't want to initially but I think it will go well in the end. Since it is out I might as well replace all of the house insulation that Ford installed-or someone installed. I know Dyna Mat is the really good stuff but I saw some at walmart (3/8", 3/16", 1/4" thick) That is foil backed and has a sticky surface for installation. I was thinking of using the 3/8 in the roof and on the floor as well if it will work. Anyone tried the 'Car Elements' stuff from walmart?
Mike
I have been looking for some Country Sedan emblems for my rear fenders and some wind deflectors. If anyone has any, please let me know. I am not on here often because of being busy but if you could email me at rm_grizzle@yahoo.com I would be able to get the message quicker and thanks for any help.
Guys with the dyna Matt stuff I used some blue foil stuff found on Amazon. The sqft price was the best on it and it was free shipping. There is a thread on dyna Matt alternatives on the Hamb.
Are you happy with it? Just curious.
Just my 2 cents...on the roof, you want to use the lightest weight sheeting you can find. Otherwise, a hot day could cause a heavier sheeting to come unstuck and fall against the headliner. For the roof only, I used a foil-backed bubble-wrap type. I found it at Lowe's.
Everything else, I used a house roofing product called snow and ice shield. Seems to have worked great, but how do you know???? It looks like Dynamat without the printing.
Another suggestion, is when you do the floors, go as high up on the firewall as you can. I didn't, and I sometimes get more heat coming out from under the dash than I'd like on a hot day. LOL, might just be my drivetrain though, my 4.6 runs cool internally, but externally it throws a ton of heat. I've seen my garage go up 5 degrees after pulling in from a drive.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2022-10-21 09:17roofing product called snow and ice shield. Seems to have worked great, but how do you know?
I should add, I also applied 2 coats of paintable undercoating to the outside undercarriage, and after por-15'ing the inside floor, and the 'snow-roof" stuff, I used 3/8 foil-backed jute for under carpeting. No issues with exhaust heat coming up from the floor.
There is a trick to installing that 3/8 foil-backed jute.
I got some foil sticky backed stuff from Walmart that is an insulator/sound deadener in two thicknesses. 1/4"-for the roof and 3/8 for the floor/firewall. I will have to derust the roof and then I will cut and stick it up. The floors/firewall will be a bit more of a challenge. I am also in the EARLY process to see if I can get the wheel well covers reproduced for the wagon. Wish me luck.
Mike
7DAA37E7-ACC3-441E-8BBB-9C2322A046B6.jpeg I am trying to replicate my wheel well covers and need some ideas on how to get them off in one piece. There is a chance that I can get them 3D printed if I can get them out of the car and take them down to the printer. But as you can see they are a tad broken up. Any ideas on how to get them out with out crumbling and preserving the texture?
Those wheel covers are pebbled vinyl that are heat molded. The best case scenario is you make a buck (2 mirrored- each side) and you find the vinyl- or maybe a thicker version, and basically vacuum form it onto the buck.
I have actually done this with regulars plastic and wooden and foam patterns, I think 3D printing this doesn't really make it the same. as its really thick vinyl
It will be hard to get a pebbled with 3D printing as you have to fin print it and then finish the surface. and it will be a hard surface that will see a lot sun wear and may crack worse than the original.
If you want to carefully remove it, try denatured alcohol.
There are guys that would sooner, use a heat gun, and soft shape the cracked areas down and use a filler to fix the cracks, then just paint.
I'd consider making a steel cage, covered with chicken wire then fleece. The fleece is sprayed with liquid rubber on the backside, then saturated with por-15 on the topside. A little quick sanding and it's ready for the vinyl glue-down. Chek my pics starting on post 39 on the link below.
https://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=5795.30
In your case, for the frame work, I'd use something easy to form by hand...maybe 1/16 x 3/8 or 1/2.
I also did the side panels for the rear seat area that way. Look at the middle pic. in the link below.
https://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=3518.msg21046#msg21046
BTW, I much prefer the por-15 method instead of fiberglass.
Abe and Rich thank you very much for the tips and info. I may have to go the mold and form route, I will have to wait and see what the 3d guys come up with. I will be asking lots of questions if I go this route.
I now have a deadline to get the car up and running-May of 23 so that I can drive down to Petaluma for the American Graffiti car show. So, I will be going full bore now.
Mike
Quote from: 1930artdeco on 2022-10-26 16:21I now have a deadline to get the car up and running-May of 23 so that I can drive down to Petaluma for the American Graffiti car show. So, I will be going full bore now.
Mike
I kinda thought you WERE going pretty much full bore!
So...how is WA? You are in Everett or Bremerton?
I live in Lynden. I am going full bore as much as family/house lets me. I just now have to go full bore faster :003:. trying to get her wiring finished by the end of Nov. and then start the welding adventure.
Just to make sure, from reading your comment,........you did understand what I was suggesting was not to make a form to mold the vinyl, but was actually the base/framework to adhere the vinyl to. Your problem here will be finding a vinyl that stretches more than the norm to avoid having a sewn seam. Not all vinyls are created equal. A visit to a good upholstery supply shop asking to see their most stretchable line of vinyls is recommended. I had to drive 360 miles to visit Sunbelt Fabrics in Arlington, Tx to find mine.
Case in point: check the pic of my two-toned dash.
https://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=3518.msg21046#msg21046
The grey vinyl is a marine grade vinyl I got at Joanne's. It's very tough and thick, and does not stretch real well. No way it was going to work for the top of the dash (tan vinyl), or my console. Note there are no sewn seams.....it's all stretched and glued down. Since I can't sew, and was determined to do it myself, I needed to find a more stretchable vinyl. Thus a trip to the supply store.
Quote from: 1930artdeco on 2022-10-27 11:14I live in Lynden. I am going full bore as much as family/house lets me. I just now have to go full bore faster :003:. trying to get her wiring finished by the end of Nov. and then start the welding adventure.
I know Lynden. Almost went to work there as a cop back in the 70's. Nice though quirky little town.
Were I still in Port Angeles I'd come across the water and help you out from time to time, but as you know...I am not.
Ok Rich understand now, I will see what my options are up here.
Mustang, love the town and am slowly getting my feet wet in the local hot rod/car scene. Just got her front windshield in!!!!
It is one of the last towns in W. WA that I would have lived in. Pretty straight-laced...but a comfy place.
Get out on I-5 this early summer and head up to the Tulip Festival. Lots of multi-colored Tulips...beautiful.
And in the spring or summer head across the water to Vancouver Island. One of the best places to go for a day or a week. Butchart Gardens is superb place to spend a day. The islanders are some of the best people you will ever mingle with. Stay out of Seattle...it is not safe anymore If you go...be out by the time the sun drops.
If Christmas is a big thing in your home...head over to Leavenworth in the Central Cascades. They have a lighting ceremony there in early December that is well worth the trip to get there. May not be able to get a room this year, but try. The town is a delight!
I have other places as well...shoot me an e- and I will share them. I lived there for nearly 50 years. Spent a lot of time in Vancouver area and on the island as well as all over WA state.
You could take the ferry over to Whidbey island and drive up to Deception Pass park. Nice scenery and good hiking trails.
James
Quote from: Fairlane62 on 2022-10-29 00:52You could take the ferry over to Whidbey island and drive up to Deception Pass park. Nice scenery and good hiking trails.
James
Yep...great day trip! Views are fine! Do NOT go on a really windy day though! :003: Take a camera!
Yep, we are already exploring the area. Hit Leavenworth, Victoria already. Need to hit the islands next spring.
Update time. I have most of the wires run and in place now. So now I am starting to hook things up and make thing permanent. Ok, so the original wiring from the front to the back (tail lights etc) is two wires. But Ron Francis's kit is five wires, plus I am
Adding a ground wire due to all of the corrosion.
So I ran the wires in a loom which is quite a bit bigger than the original wiring. How do other people attached their wiring bundle to the tunnel? Mine just won't fit in the original clips. It will obviously get covered buy the insulation and carpet. Just looking for ideas.
Mike
Let's see if this works.............
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/media/got-my-rearward-wires-run-and-the-second-layer-of-padding-insulation-begun.426078/
The area below the wires, that the wires are "attached to", is the foil covered rubber insulation. I was also using 3/8 Jute under the carpet, so that is what you see on the far side of the wires, sorta made a tunnel and kept the bundle flat.
Rich nice pics that works.
Mike. I have power windows on the hardtop and the lines run allied the hump like Rich's picture.
I would have to check my CS bu I believe lost for wagons the wires run along the drivers door under the carpet. If you have extra wire run 2-3 extra in case you add something later. Or keep the third brake light from the kit. Might as well double check the fuel sender.
Good advice on the extra wire. I ran a heavier gauge wire just in case, and that worked out well, as I almost immediately needed it, so I capped off that "extra wire" with a power supply box I used to feed an electric antenna and trunk release.
Yeah, lots of stuff to think about for the back.......license plate light, third brake light, fuel pump, sending unit, safety impact shut-off switch for fuel pump, power antennae, speakers, trunk light, taillights, brake lights, back-up light,turn lights,trunk release. I got 'em all!!
I used hot glue to secure the wiring where I wanted it. Like Rich, I ran a heavy wire and but also extra wires to the rear.
Rich, did you run the wires individually? I ran mine through 7/16 woven loom so I will follow your advice and build up the floor insulation around it. If I decide to run anything else I will have to hold off a few years or be run a different way. But I will hopefully hook the rear half of the car up this week. It is a tad cold here in the garage.
Mike
Quote from: 1930artdeco on 2022-12-04 12:02It is a tad cold here in the garage.
Mike
You can get torpedo heaters in various sizes, they run on Kerosene, and will do the job nicely. I bought one over 17 years ago to heat my 40x30 shop in Dungeness, where temps often were down around 20 in winter. Heated the entire place up to 60+ in about an hour.
My shop here is 50x40, and it heats this up too after about 2 hours of running to around 60 as well.
I pretty much ran mine thru looms, except for the tunnel area so I could run the grouping as flat as possible under the carpet.
One other thing I should talk about.........soldering wire connections. I for the most part did not. Only my battery cables are soldered, everything else is just very carefully crimped. Lots of pros and cons on this subject, but the overall gist I got when researching was that soldering can damage wires if not carefully and professionally done. Too much heat can make the wire ends brittle. Obviously, since I'm not a pro auto electrician, I am not a pro at the soldering either. I have had no issues with crimped connections coming loose.
I have done both...used crimp connections that allow me to also solder the connections. Has been a while since I did that, and those connectors may no longer be available. And I no longer own the car either. (One of the few I have parted with in my life)
https://www.motorcraft.com/content/dam/ford-motorcraft/en_us/motorcraft_global/products/wire_sets_wiring/18376-Pigtail-Book-2016.pdf
Scroll down to PG 3. This how FORD does service repairs now. The connectors are available about anywhere.
That looks like a good package to have. BUT...how does one who is not a Ford employee get them? No info on the site about how to acquire the tools or the connectors.
I don't believe any of those "connectors" pictured are soldered, and pretty much irrelevant for most wiring conversion kits used in our old cars as that era wiring for the most part did not use connectors. Of course, my late model engine, tranny, and steering column had mostly multi-wire connections, but those ends were all pre-wired by Ron Francis. What I was talking about was the fuse panel/opposite end of most of those wires that primarily use the single loop connectors.
I always assumed, I guess, The big manufacturers did NOT solder connections, even back in the 50's. Right? wrong?
A mid 70s Mustang wire harness I took apart to use in a 48 half ton I built had several junctions of three to four wires soldered together and wrapped with tape. All the "ends" and "connectors" were crimped with a rubber shape molded over them to seal them up.
Rich is correct, amateur soldering can sometimes yield unsatisfactory results with "cold" joints or over heated wires causing the wire to crack. There are several crimping tools available that will give the perfect crimp, no loose or too tight which will in effect cut the wire. They are worth every cent for the best long term results.
Quote from: mustang6984 on 2022-12-05 01:41That looks like a good package to have. BUT...how does one who is not a Ford employee get them? No info on the site about how to acquire the tools or the connectors.
Well, the MOTORCRAFT TOOLS are $$$. You can get the tool kits from MOTORCRAFT or a ROTUNDA TOOL DEALER or OTC. You can buy the actual tools most anywhere (watch quality).
The CONNECTORS have MOTORCRAFT PART NUMBERS on them. AMAZON should have them or a dealer. You can buy the same connectors from a vendor. Just be sure of quality.
The reason I posted that was to show that the procedure is recommended/approved by FORD (current).
WIRING REPAIR CONNECTORS - MOTORCRAFT.png
WIRING REPAIR TOOLS - MOTORCRAFT.png
Okay...I'll look around. I am a ways off from wiring my Courier, and bought a wiring harness for that purpose. the Fairlane I have not yet investigated the harness on...but so far looks like the car is unmolested by anyone so I am hoping the harness will also be in same shape.
I should have given you a source for the FORD SPECIAL SERVICE TOOLS -
https://www.freedomracing.com/specialty-tools.html?cat=530
If you want early tools that have been discontinued, you would search the TOOL NO. on the net and/or EvilBay.
For current tools vendors as listed above. OTC is the supplier to FORD so you may be able to find the same tool much cheaper.
OTC TOOLS - https://www.otctools.com/
Update-since it has been awhile. I have rewired the rear and 98% of the engine compartment. I had to remove the wiper system to clean and lube it and found the drive drum is toast and I have to get another one. But I got all of the pulleys free and spinning. Once they go back in, the Newport wiper goes in, and the dash gets rewired and it goes in. Once all the electrical checks out and drains-drain and not leak, I am off to floor pans. I found a replacement rubber piece for the drain tube and I will post pics of it next week.
But, I have one question: how do I determine tension on the pulleys? I heard you are supposed to use a nail to keep tension on the pully system. Mine are locked in by some metal tabs which I have to pry up to move the assembly. These are set up from the factory so I am a little leary about changing the tension on them.
I pried the tabs back and inserted a cotter pin. The pullies are spring loaded and mine didn't require further tensioning.
I assume you have read our great thread on the wiper system? It's pinned to the top in one of the technical boards.
Yep, but I will have to go and reread it when I get a new drive drum and prep to reinstall.
Quote from: 1930artdeco on 2023-02-03 10:14Yep, but I will have to go and reread it when I get a new drive drum and prep to reinstall.
What is the drive drum? Is that the plate that is bolts to the firewall and holds the wiper motor?
Terry, that is the piece I need. I don't know its actual name is.
Mike
Yes, that is the drive drum. John V
New update: The dash is in and I am starting to hook up the wires and determine lengths and routing. It is going to be a routing nightmare, I can see it coming. But, how is the best way to get the glove box in, dash in or do I have to pull it out a bit for easier access? Same go for the radio-it doesn't work it is just a place holder for now.
Slowly but surely I am progressing.......
The glove box is an easy install after the dash goes in. The radio will go in after too with a little more effort. I always put both in after the dash goes in.
Well ordered a battery and have only about three or so wires left to hook up! So I am going to try testing circuits this weekend. But, I have a thorny problem to deal with, the fresh are ducts. How do I get the flapper part out of the housing to replace the rubber? Getting the rubber out is no big deal as the two pieces are stapled together. I just cant seem to figure out a way to get the flapper thinga majig out of the housing without drilling out welds and taking it totally apart.
Thanks,
Mike
Mike, what are you actually talking about ?
The air ducts sit next to the cowl and they have removable oval rubber seals. just 2 screws and they come off.
Yes the flaps have rubber squeezed between layers of sheet metal and rivets need to be drilled out/staples removed to replace. can be done, or just try to seal the flaps with adhesive foam band.
Damn. I was hoping to not have to drill/grind out those spot welds. It is the fresh ducts under the dash that I am referring to. Oh well, if I have to I will and then teapot weld them or screw them together.
On a brighter note-no pun intended-the car has power for the first time in probably 40 odd years!!!!! Some things work-most do not. So off to find gremlins this weekend.
Did you find replacement seals for the flaps/doors? I think I would try adhesive rather then taking the welds apart.
Yes I have new rubbers pieces, I just have to think about to get everything apart to fix things. I am hoping to just seperate everything in the housing. Wish me luck.
Update: Electrically speaking that is...She now has functioning head, parking and taillights! I was also able to sort out her left turn signal (I think it was corrosion on the switch-I am still debating if I should use contact cleaner) and her heater motor. I also saw the fuel gauge move so something is working back there, although I need to change out the ground wire for it. The Speedometer will need to come back out after I get done with the wiring to be fixed-I just need to bend the needle more than likely.
Now since I am almost done with the inside, how do I test the ignition and charging system w/o a running engine? I assume I would use a meter on the distributor points but what about the gen? Testing the regulator is in the manual I assume.
Thanks,
Mike
Hook the generator to power, ground to case and positive to plus post. if generator motors it is probably OK.
If I do that will I be able to see if its generating current to test the circuit?
You wont be able to check output that way, but if it motors it should generate.
Update, got all of the turn signals working correctly now. The switch was so corroded I had to hit it with a cleaner, twice and run it back and forth a few times. Onto the engine bay and the ignition circuit as that I think I can test without the motor running. I am not sure about the charging system, that I think is just a continuity check as the engine isn't running yet.
Great Progress Mike.. keep moving forward.
Learned something new today. I should have bolted the €<^#^#€<€<!,!<€<€~€~ spark plug wires to the engine when I had it out🙄🙄🙄🙄. Learning whole new words that I didn't know existed about engineers.
Yeah, the way Ford routed and secured the spark plug wires certainly looks neat and tidy, but also makes replacing them a major PITA. Kinda like the 60s Corvettes with small block engines. On those Corvettes, the plug wires were routed underneath the heads, and to add to the experience, were covered with steel covers, I assume to help reduce radio static from RFIs that the fiberglass body didn`t block. Same as the Plymouth AAR Cudas, that had factory fiberglass hoods, on only those models, MoPar installed the radio antenna on the rear 1/4 panel, far from the engine. The steel hood cars had the antenna on the RF fender.
Well got the wire routed and hooked up. On the plus side, I did not need to move the engine back because of the tranny. Apparently, the tranny mount bracket has a front and back. I reversed it and bingo everything lined up. I also got the windshield trim installed. Next up is flapper valves, heater and drive shaft install. After that is the engine/carb etc. in prep for her first fire up in 40 years.
Considering what you had when you started...AND the move 800+ miles north in the middle of this...you have done a heck of a job! Look in the mirror and pat yourself on the back! You've earned it!
Wish I could be there to see it and hear it fire off! :occasion14:
Well got the fresh air ducts regasketed and installed, now I am onto the heater box and cable tonight. Then I just have to take the inst. cluster out and fix the needle and make sure the gas gauge is operating correctly and the dash will be done! Looking forward to firing her up in another month or so!
This is great news! You have come so far since your first days on the forum! Heck of an inspiration to everyone. There is a Mustang show in Bellevue 3rd weekend in July. They have a non-mustang section too. You can find out info at: https://mustangsnorthwest.com/ if you are interested.
Keep up the good work!!!
Thanks Hugh. Slowly but surely I am creeping forward.
Mike
Small update:
So the drive shaft is in and boy what a discussion I created with it. I am thinking it is an early 9" where a worker used a left over 56 bat wing u joint yoke in it. How he managed to do it I have no idea but it is there and will stay put for a bit until a can change it over to a spicer type that a 57 should have.
The gauges had to go back to the shop for some minor tweaking and Rusty at Speedometer service was super helper with walking through things only to find out it needed the tweaking-will recommend him highly in the future for anyone needing service on their speedo.
The tranny is all sealed up, I had to fight with the cooling tubes by bending and tweaking them but I got them to fit-finally. And I added the 5 qts of Type F tranny fluid per the manual and am letting it set until I can start her up and add more.
The carb is on I just need to figure out the linkages to the throttle and tranny now. The MC is going to get rebuilt as I cannot get it to hold pressure and when I push on the pedal I hear some gurgling type noise, so I think it is leaking past a seal.
The tank is back in after verifying the fuel gauge works mostly correctly. I guess as mostly correctly a 50's gas gauge will work. I just need to ground it to the frame now.
The heater core is hooked up and the hot water valve in the engine compartment work around seems to work just fine. I will see what happens when I add water to it.
That is all for now, will keep plugging away faster now.
Mike
Mike...I have a buddy in Marysville (not too far from you) who could be a source of knowledge and parts if you need. Nice guy! A little rough around the edges...but he is a great friend of nearly 40 years!
Thanks Hugh, I am always looking for links to parts. I just got another tip about a guy down in the Seattle area who may have wagon parts. Can never have to many friends in this business. Just PM with his info.
Mike
PM sent...
Got it, thank you.
Found I have a Frankenstein 9". So it will need some work done to it. Like a new pinion seal and yoke. Not all that bad really. But on the up side I found I have instead of the factory 3.56 it has 3.00 gearing👍.
OK. Time for another update:
-I have hooked up the fuel line to the pump.
-I have added an oil filter and oil!!!!!!!
-Hooked up the horns-I will see if they work or not. If not I have two more sets waiting in the wings as replacements.
-Next up is vacuum to the Dist, fuel to the carb and rebuild the MC as it will not hold pressure. The water pump should return in a week or so and then water goes in and the PS pump goes on. Then I just have to make sure the all of the pulleys line up. Does anyone have a picture of how the carb (autolite 4V) hooks up to the throttle and transmission?
Mike
I have a 65 Autolite 4100 and the air cleaner will not fit down on it due to the choke housing. Will a 58 work instead? Or do I have to use a cheesey aftermarket chrome one :mumum: :mumum:
Mike
For the horns. Clean the mount areas really clean like grind them. Then clean the power tab well also. The some wires and 12V battery to test.
Sometimes a rubber mallet helps if it's stuck. I would test before
Mounting them. The. You will know if it's the horns or just wiring in the car that needs help.
Nice part is the horns can be taken apart, the contacts cleaned and re-assembled. Did both of mine on the Ranchero. They are louder then anything.....
Thanks, I have not played with them yet. I had planned to test them but just have not gotten around to it yet.
UPDATE: OK, So here is where she stands now:
-All fluids are in and just need topping off when I fire her up.
-All wiring is in nisus the coil (I just need to hook it up but it is right next to it.)
-Dist. is now in and she is timed to 5-6* BTDC.
-I have a target date of 8 July to fire her up.
-PS fluid is in but drips from the valve so will have to drain and reseat hoses.
-Next up is inst. cluster to be hooked back up.
Mike
Getting closer Mike....
Oh Mike...so close! A trip to Mt. Rainier will be in your future this late summer! Nice trip and a beautiful drive!
Had to tape the threads on all of the PS connections as they were leaking past the threads-now no leaks-so far. I put gas in her for the first time in 40 years (new tank). The gauge reads a little less than half full and i put 14 gal in a 19 gal tank. I will check the ground wire and see if that changes the gauge. I just need to put the carb back on, pcv hose and I need to reset the dist timing and that is all. She will be ready to fire up in two weeks time!!!!!!!
Update: I am down to just adding the electric choke and adjusting the points. Add a little starter fluid and she should fire right up!! Wish me luck.
Luck? Nah...you'll not need any luck. The way you have obsessed over every detail...I have FAITH she'll fire right up! And then there will be a massive grin on your mug! :003:
Well......the B&;$;tch won again. We were on the way to checking things out in preparation to fire her up. When she went and bent a push rod. I have no idea how it happened as it was locked into the tappet. So now I have to order some more rods for #5🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬. Can you tell I am little peeved🤪?
That guy Murphy is a major pain in the backside to say the least. :mumum:
Did you put new valve guides in. May have a tight one?
Everything is brand new. Every time I adjust the rockers I check the rods because they have a tendency to slip out. Somehow this one slipped passed me.
She finally lives after 40 years of not having a heart beat!!!!!!! I don't why her RPM is so high but she runs. I checked her primaries and they appear to closed so I will let her cool down (I only ran her for about 1-3 minutes). I have two exhaust leaks as there was a lot of smoke coming from the manifolds and out of the tail pipe! I mean a lot but it did clear up after awhile. But I am happy she runs, somehow I managed to get her 180 out even after trying not to. Here is a link for proof.
https://youtube.com/shorts/Y48hJoVV0AI
YOWSERS! Sounds really smooth too! Congrats buddy! :003: :006: :headbang: :wav: :crowd:
OK second run and took the choke out completely and screwed the idle screw out so it was not touching the cam at all. Got her to run much slower still a tad fast in my book. Temps were as follows: Rad-160, Pass manifold 330, driver side manifold 430? Temps are all approx. will tinker with her slowly over the next few days and weeks as I am moving onto floor pans.
Very nice and an Autolite 4100 too! :hello2:
That ...is .......AWESOME Mike.
Best feeling in the world.
Congrats man.
Thank you all. Yes it is a very good feeling to hear and see her run. Now I just have to tune her up and bring down her idle speed. Went out to the garage today and found a huge mess of mouse nests blown all over the floor from the tail pipe :005: :005: .
That will make it run crappy.
I am hoping that I blew them all out. But on the bright side, the muffler still appears to be good after 60+ years :003:
Happy for you! Moving a project 800+ miles and then staying on task to finish it is pretty slick! Wish now I could ride in it...but odds of me being back up there are pretty slim!
Look forward to the next phase!
Had a few setbacks but back going forward again. Had to buy a new water outlet and finally got her to stop leaking. Replaced all the rockers with 56 style ones and she is quiet now as far as the valves go. Starting on the floor pans now, banging out dents and will start cutting the rust out soon.
Mike, did you ever get a Y block for your project? The one I have is still sitting here ready to go, but I've done nothing with it. Any interest still?
Yes I did, I emailed but didn't hear back. So not sure what happened. But yes the car runs and sorry I moved to Washington so not near you anymore.
Mike
Just installed dual exhaust Mello Tones on my wagon. Still needs some tweaking but not bad.
https://youtube.com/shorts/aDW2ewwu2PI?si=7feyRpoedEHvTrB-
UPDATE: OK, I have the driver side floor pan out and I think I may have gotten lucky. All of the rust on the frame/support brace/rocker appears to be surface or at least not structural cancer. At least I hope. Next step it to blast everything and do a final determination this weekend. If all good I will start trimming down the tow board and pan in preparation for reinstallation.
Ah...progress! Keep at it! a trip to Mt. Rainier in order this summer right? I don't think the Mountain has seen a '57 Courier since 1975...mine!
Do you have full EMS floor panels or are you going to patch with smaller areas ? If the floor braces and inner rockers are in good condition that is a BIG bonus. The floor board sheet metal really only ties it all together. Been there. Like most of us 57 Ford owners. I suggest you figure out if you want to replace all the body rubber mounts. This would probably be the right time to do so.
DJ, all the mounts have been replaced and I am just replacing smaller pieces not the full pan. I am using EMS pans and they are really nice and thick. So I will begin to pair them down this weekend, no reason to cut out good 1950's battleship steel. :003:
WHERE did you find body mounts? I was lucky enough to score a set from another member here...but no one had any at any parts house.
I still am going to need a set for one Sedan Delivery.
Hugh....I got them from Concourse, apparently before they ran out. Although I see pic of two body mount bolts in the front brace. My car did not come with those so I am not sure if I need them or not.
Here is where I stand at the moment for metal work. OFf to get sealers, epoxy etc. today and then may work a bit on her. Maybe
I'd say if you have them in your set...put them in. Could be the ones that were there came out due to a rusted bolt going away, or perhaps someone else started work on it at one time and gave up...never returning the originals to their place?
I've wondered the same thing about the extra hole. The aftermarket body cushion sets do not have a left over cushion. One of the few '57 models I have NOT worked on is the Sunliner. Does the Sunliner X frame line up with that extra hole?
Gary, it has been over 20 years since I built my sunliner. I had a very rusted sunliner body ahd a nice, [OK] 2drht body. I put the hard top body on the sunliner frame and made a convertable out of the hard top, using all the convert. parts. all the holes matched up, but like I said that was 20 years ago, sometimes I don't remeber so good , but I am sure I am right on this one. I still have the car, and if I don't say anything everyone thinks it is factory.
Not that bad of a figment for a first timer who has never done this before. Off to the main pan next and by next month hopefully I can get my me or over to help and get them installed.
Small update. I had to buy a new welder as the one I had crapped out after buying a new gun :mumum: . Well got an EASB that will do all three processes and am having fun welding with it now. I finished adding a patch piece to the toe board and will not have to grind down the welds and then start to fit it to the car. Once done I will tack in place and start on the floor pan. Now that it is now freezing in the garage.
Mike
That brace on my Ranchero had both holes bolted to the frame. If you can blow up the first pic you can see the brace off the frame under the second hole.
It looks like I am missing apiece under the inner most body mount hole. I don't think anything was ever there as there are no marks saying something was there. I will still bolt the body down at that point though, just to play it safe.
Mike
Could be the difference in factory/timing. My car was a CA build, very early in the run. It came out of the San Diego area, not sure if it was built there, when I purchased it.
Put the toe board in last night!!!!!!!Over the next few days I will finish welding it in and then start on the floor pan. Progress!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: 1930artdeco on 2024-02-07 10:46It looks like I am missing apiece under the inner most body mount hole. I don't think anything was ever there as there are no marks saying something was there. I will still bolt the body down at that point though, just to play it safe.
Mike
I'm trying to figure out what hole you are talking about. Is it the 1/2" or so hole in the floor support brace....center of the pic, about an inch up from the bottom of the pic? If so, could it be from a spotweld removal tool that went all the way thru?
Rich, if you look at FBB's picture there is the body floor brace where the two body bolts go (inner and outer). It you look under the inner hole there is something the bolt is attached to. That is what I think I am missing. I don't know of the heat shield is supposed to attach to that piece or not. My heat shield was spot welded to the body (it broke off and had a little spot weld left over).
Mike
Added more spots last night to the toe board with a few blow throughs to boot. Soo more holes to fill :mumum:
The heat shield is spotted to the floorboard. Look at the "two row spots" and body bolts, just aft of those are the two spot welds to fasten the heat shield to the floor pan. My Ranchero had the shields on both sides even though it was a six banger......