Nice to see this forum!
I have had this wagon for about 3 years and look forward to checking in for help on projects and reading about yours. The color is a variation of 2004 Hummer Orange. The white is "Chevy Truck White White" with a dash of pearl for a nice bright contrast. I bought this with the interior and exterior finished. The previous owner, unfortunately, put a Chevy 350/350 Turbo trans in it...needless to say, a good strong cruiser Ford motor is in the plans...but I have to say that it runs very good/sounds nice in the meantime...I am better off not opening the hood at cruise nights, tho!
Next project is putting stock front springs back in. Previous owner cut the front springs a bit too much to lower, but the geometry is bad and drive is mushy...looks good, but doesn't drive too well at speeds over 50. I will see where stock springs put the stance...then may use Granada spindles to lower 2 inches. I already installed front power discs and put in new rear springs/bushings. Manual steering. This car was a great driveable bargain with many projects left in her. It's a driver...gets nice attention since there aren't many of these out here!
Rob
(http://www.ravelers.com/wagon10.jpg)
Here are a few more photos...no flames on the motor, please...I have heard it enough already...but I understand if some of you feel the need to put your own digs in. I did put the Edelbrock air cleaner, valves covers on to spruce it up a tad...and it does run real good.
Previous owner put the speakers in the front door panels...I would have put them in the kick panels or someplace else. They really messed up a nice looking door panel. Another reason I got the car for a good price.
Rob
(http://www.ravelers.com/wagon12.jpg)
(http://www.ravelers.com/wagon8.jpg)
(http://www.ravelers.com/wagon23.jpg)
(http://www.ravelers.com/wagon24.jpg)
(http://www.ravelers.com/wagon25.jpg)
Rob :006:
Welcome to wonderful world of 57 Fords. Hope you feel welcome even after remarks about the scrub moter. If you want a drop in the front go with http:Jamcosuspension.com The have lowered springs up to 3" I am installing 3" dropped springs and granada disc brakes on mine . Will not know how low that will be becouse we have snow up to the bottom of the windows stills.
Happy days are ahead just keep the hood shut :003: :deadhorse:
TOM :unitedstates: :burnout:
Thanks, Tom...
Will those Jamco front coil springs still work with stock spindles AND keep the geometry correct?
I was trying to call Jamco a few months ago...they had a death in the family which had them down for a few weeks...are they back in business? There seemed to be a question whether their business would continue, according to their phone message.
Rob
Rob :006:
Give them a call I called a couple weeks ago and had the springs in a week inc. shipping from one coast to another. What I did is leave a phone # on their answering machine and he called the next day.
My understanding is that they are a replacement spring modified for the lowering, He will ask you all the same questions as a parts person would down to with or without air and factory air or after market.
I used them on another project pick up of unmentioned brand and worked good.
TOM :unitedstates: :burnout:
Rob, Another choice besides dropped spindles,try Eaton Detroit Spring,Inc. (www.eatonsprings.com) they are the original suppliers for(Ford,Chevy,etc.).I talked with them and they said that they could make any type coil spring for my sedan delivery( height,lbs.rate,progressive rate,etc.).I was thinking 58 wagon with 352c.i.,power steering,air,etc. with a 2" shorter length,and a little more spring rate for a firmer ride. Tell them what your trying to do and they'll be glad to help recommend something! SKIP :006:
Thanks, KidKourier...
So...these 2" drop coils from Jamco and/or Eaton will keep the geometry correct so a good alignment can be achieved? I phone call to them will answer that question.
The previous owner cut the stock coils and the stance is where I like...but the geometry is in such a way that it cannot be adjusted for a good alignment.
I had given up on the Jamco idea awhile ago because of the geometry issue. Several of my mechanic friends said it just wasn't possible..."You need to go back to the stock spring and dropped spindles to get the alignment correct".
As it is now, both front tires wear on the most inner 1" of tread, but it drives straight...until you hit a bump at 50 mph, then the front sways.
At $275-350...that would be cheaper than stock springs at around $250, and dropped spindles at a few hundred, too.
Thanks for the renewed food for thought...I have been reading the other threads on this subject in other parts of this forum, too...57agin's 300 seems to have everything I want nailed pretty well...same ride height with a good alignment, 351W (I would go a bit milder for this wagon, tho)...just need cash!
Rob
Rob:
Thanks for the kind words. You have a really fine looking Country Sedan. Hopefully, you can make it out to Knott's Berry Farm on April 20th, or Seal Beach on April 26th, or Cal state Fullerton on April 27th and we can discuss some of the options available.
Right now my 57 is "temporarily" out of service, undergoing a conversion of my big 9" vacuum booster power brake system to a much smaller and better looking electric/hydraulic braking system. It should be ready in another couple of weeks. Tearing it down one month before the good weather & car show season is here took a leap of faith. But, I am really looking forward to using the new system. Richard already has it in his Custom 300 (57TUDOR) and says it is great. My bigest concern right now is where to mount the electric/hydraulic pump, as I don't have the same room on the frame below the reservoir that Richard's fenderwell header car has. Test fitting it tonight. Wish me luck.
Bob
57AGIN
Bob...
Good luck on your brake project!
As you can see from the photo of the "slug engine", I have the big power brake unit, too. Wagon stops great now, and the slotted rotors look good. I wish I would have known more about my front end problem at the time, I would have put stock springs and drop spindles on at the same time. I did the brakes as soon as I bought the wagon.
After my mechanic installed the front disc brakes...he started on getting the alignment. He had a heck of a time getting it to drive straight. When it finally felt good behind the wheel, both front tires are "toed out" with a negative camber. That's when we discovered the coils had been cut, and he couldn't get a proper alignment...the front ride height is even on both sides...right at 13 1/2" at the bottom of the front bumper bolt on the side.
Before I replaced the original rear springs, shackles, bushings a few months with new stock units...the whole car had a "wave"/rear steer feel to it when you went over uneven road. I thought the new rear set-up would tighten it all up. It did tighten up the rear...but now the front has a sway from left to right, right to left when you hit uneven road. I am hoping it is just the front springs/funky alignment.
When the previous owner installed the Chevy "slug motor" (it's no 11 second car...but it does run nice), they left the rear sump oil pan and lowered the steering linkage to clear the pan. I am hoping that the steering linkage (manual) isn't causing part of the sway...I wouldn't think so.
My mechanic (different from the one who did the power brakes) who did the R & R on the rear springs assured me that the car is "put together very well". He is a "Chevy guy", so he had his own humor for the engine. This mechanic recommends stock springs/drop spindles...and a 302.
I am partial to a 351W with an AOD trans, but a Ford motor will be a big expense. Check out this web site (these guys are in New Jersey) and look at the video clip on the page...is nearly $6,000 a price to expect for a mildly stout cruiser motor at the numerous engine shops in So Calif, too?
http://www.proformanceunlimited.com/specs/351_350drop.html
Several mechanics have told me to leave the Chevy SB in there. But it is obviously uncool to have a Chevy SB in a full-size Ford...early roadsters are OK...but not these 57s.
I also have a 56 T-Bird with the 312 and prefer not to have another Y-block.
Hope to see you and your car soon...I will be at the NHRA Twilight cruises on the first Wed of the month at the Pomona Fairplex occasionally. My schedule with another hobby keeps me busy from going to some of those car shows...playing drums in a rock band... http://www.ravelers.com
Sorry for the long post...
Rob
Rob, if you get your car up in the air, take a picture of the altered steering- and post it. This could be some of your steering issues, this car has a ton of bump steer to start with. I'd be curious to see how it was altered. thanks, Mark
Mark...
The car steers well...except for the bump steer...it's the sway that is scary at speed! I'll see if I can snap a photo of the steering linkage...it's not real pretty, just lowered to clear the pan. I have to be careful because it's the lowest part of the undercarriage.
Rob
Mark...
Here is the steering linkage. A "custom bend" welded extension downward on the center link basically lowered the entire linkage. The bend you see on the spindle connecting rod is what it looks like in the OEM shop manual on page 5-9. The idler arm on the passenger side doesn't look much different than stock. Not pretty, like I said...it's the ugliest part of the car. Of course, when time comes to put a Ford motor in here, the steering would be re-done, too. Hmmm, none of the catalogs I have seem to sell the entire linkage, just idler arms and tie rods.
Anybody got an extra $12,000 or so for a 351W, AOD trans, drive shaft, Wurth power steering rack unit, vintage a/c & heater...and installation?
(http://www.ravelers.com/linkage.jpg)
Just a few comments on your front end or your mech? Can't you adjust the toe with
the tie rod? The camber will not make the car sway, actually it will corner better.
I realize this isn't the way you want it, but something isn't right here. Won't shims
bring the camber back? Someting else is wrong, You are getting stroked bad.
I hope you have some better luck....
Good Luck, Ron :003:
BTW, does the car have the anti sway bar on it?
Ron...
The car does have the front sway bar. Many shims that show how evident the toe-out is.
Bottom line...it's time to get this wagon to Jim Sleeper, suspension guru. He did work on one of my Dad's normal "civilian" cars when other alignment shops couldn't get it. I have looked for his number several times, but those that were referenced in magazine articles were disconnected.
A rodder friend of mine gave me his number a couple of months ago...time to see if he is home somewhere near me. He did this wagon...
http://www.customrodder.com/tech/0207cr_blue_oval_bolt_on_binders/
Been doing a lot of talking and thinking about this...time to find the time to do something about it.
Rob
Awesome...found Jim Sleeper!
Gonna go see him on Monday.
The excitement is overwhelming!
Rob,
Looks like you found the right guy....where is he located?
Ron
Jim Sleeper is in La Verne, CA.
I don't know if he has a shop, or I am meeting him at his house. I will find out more on Monday afternoon. I will ask him if it's OK to give out his number. He said this week was all booked.
From reading this board, he could get some more front end experience with 57 Fords...
Rob
Rob, I'm also plagued by front end bumpsteer on my 57 and could use a good front end pro to help me out. could you post Jim Sleepers address and phone #, my 57 sounds like it sways like yours and I can say it's a white knuckle ride on the freeway at speed,kinda like driving a 59 caddy with no shocks or sway bar on the front. Skip
Looking at your picture of the steering linkage you will never fix the bump steer without replacing the drag link. the way they bent it for clearance they ruined the geometry of the steering . The inner and outer tie rod Assembly's should follow the line of the lower control arm . I can also see why the toe is out of spec with the drag link bent like that . I hate to say it but that looks unsafe . I don't think just changing the coils will really fix anything . These cars don't have a bump steer issue when set up correctly . I have used lowering springs and spindles on these cars and never have had any bump steer .
From talking to Mr Sleeper over the phone...he seemed to know what I was talking about when I explained my situation and why the car sways with the toe-out/negative camber and how it is really exaggerated since I have tighten up the rear suspension with new leaf springs/bushings/shackles. I can handle the bumpsteer until I can change the linkage...but the swaying is the unsafe part.
I will get a better picture on Monday...
Rob
Rob, you need to hook up wth Rick and bob (57Tudor and 57agin). The steering linkage is a large part of the problem. Usually, Chevy hacks will butcher a good car to put a bowtie where it doesnt belong. This is why Chevy engines with the rear sump don't work too well in the full size Fords witht eh integral engine X-member. The rear steer doesnt help the Ford/Chev crossbreeding either. The hatchet job on the centerllink, pitman, and idler need to be done away with asap. I realize a lot of people have modified steering linkages for years, but that is one thing I wouldn't screw with. I have a current ASE cert in Steering/Susp, and I built my own front suspension, aligned it in my garage. It drove straight, tracked straight, cornered well, and it was pretty low. I used Granada spindles with `90 Lincoln Towncar coils with 1.75 coils removed. The camber was about 2* neg, not too much, no lean on tires, but turned and cornered well. Set the toe and it was like driving a new car.
Whoever is selling engines in SoCal has some kind of racket going....$6800 for a mild 351W? I had only $10000 in my stroker alum. headed 427 Windsor...Once you get that Frankenstein steering problems taken care of, it will drive much better, I assure you. Great looking wagon by the way...
It looks like a dropped drag link is needed . That is what we did in the old days , even back then you didn't bend the steering linkage and have a safe car.
TOM :unitedstates: :burnout:
That steering is scary looking, putting a nice blue front sump pan would be a start. Mark
Quote from: JPotter57 on 2008-03-19 18:19
Whoever is selling engines in SoCal has some kind of racket going....$6800 for a mild 351W?
The web site I posted with the 351W is from a company in New Jersey...their prices are pretty steep.
http://www.proformanceunlimited.com/specs/351_350drop.html
Of course, I am hoping to find something more affordable in So Cal.
Rob
Rob, Try(www.SmedingPerformance.com) they're in Rancho Cordova,Ca. They have several Winsor offerings such as a 405hp/405torque for around $6,700 using a SVO Sportsman block or will build your combo to suit! they have had displays at several of the large shows,probably be at Goodguys at Del Mar Fairgrounds by San Diego on April 4th,5th,6th. Also Ford offers some nice combos on the Winsor especially when they have sales,try(www.fordracingparts.com) They'll have a display set up at Fabulous Fords at Knotts on April 20th if you have questions, also MCE Engines with Marvin McAfee who has built a few engines for a few of the car mags will be there and knows his stuff on Ford engines an will have a few examples in the back of their truck. Hope this helps a little! SKIP :006:
Thanks, Skip...
Oddly enough, I was looking at all those you mentioned on the internet yesterday.
A friend of mine has a stock 302 that has been rebuilt, but never used and just taking up space in his garage. He said I could have it for a few hundred. Tempting.
This wagon does not need a race motor. A very mildy warmed-over 351W with a slight bump in the idle, very dependable, sounds good, and looks good is my preference. A 400hp version is more than this 4-door wagon cruiser needs...closer to 300hp or even stock would be fine. Stock with good-looking dress-up stuff would be fine.
Off to the car show in La Verne, CA this morning....
...my biggest decision today will be what Rat Fink t-shirt to wear.
Those Performance Unlimited guys are too high. I wouldnt pay $6800 for an iron headed std. stroke 351...you can get a lot more motor for that...Heck, I'd almost build you one and bring it to you, then put it in for that, lol... Shop around a little, Rob, better deals are out there. Id say for that Performance Unlimited combo, about 3000 or so would be more fair. That is with good pistons, camshaft, and intake as well. It can be done for less.
By the way, a stock 302 would move the wagon along nicely....
Thanks, guys...I posted my visit to Jim Sleeper's shop to see about my steering, front suspension. See the "Steering and Suspension" area of the forum.
Rob
Hi Rob
I have a little input for you to ponder over.I am building my 57 ranchero and have decided on a 302 stroked to 347 with alum.heads and intake.With every thing except carb.,starter and water pump my engine weighs 375 lbs.I have already built my engine (jumped the gun a little bit).My friend who builds steering boxes tells me that if I use a 58 steering box that with an engine that light I will think I have power steering.Any way thats my plan.Anson Holley -ranchero57
Anson...
I just talked to a friend of mine who has a stock 302 (around 1969-70) that was built professionally about 20 years ago, but never fired. I can have it for pretty cheap ($200)...which means I can have it gone thru, re-lubed, add some horsepower for a lot less than a new crate motor.
Thanks for confirming this idea!