Master Cylinder Questions

[KULTULZ]

No problem. I just didn't hear anything and was wondering.

The front brakes are connected to the port closest to the firewall.

Correct install is important and the OEM plumbing (incl MC circuitry) needs to be verified.

[RICH MUISE]

My brain doesn't work as it use to......you are correct, the reservoir does have a low fluid warning sender(?)/connector. Mine is not wired, have no idea what would be involved to make it function.
Yes, the Mustang master cyl. has bleeders..two.....one very close to the nose to get the air bubbles that would be otherwise trapped because of the tilted mount. I've never noticed bleeders on any other type of MC, so kinda goes along with these not being able to be bench bled. The second bleeder is 3" or so back from the front one.

[KULTULZ]

Yes, the Mustang master cyl. has bleeders..two.....one very close to the nose to get the air bubbles that would be otherwise trapped because of the tilted mount. I've never noticed bleeders on any other type of MC, so kinda goes along with these not being able to be bench bled. The second bleeder is 3" or so back from the front one.

I am not 100% sure, but I believe those bleeders are for an internal PDV (it will trip an instrument cluster warning lamp). Those bleeders allow you to center it.

The MC has to be bench bled before being installed, as the MC nose will be tilted upwards and will allow air to be trapped in the nose and it won't come out, just as a caliper has to be level to completely bleed it.

I guess I am going to have to bite the bullet and find a 2003 WSM copy. This lack of info (and I have found nothing on the net) is driving me (and my driving you guys) crazy.

[KULTULZ]

I opened the WEBSITE, for Maximum Motor Sports that KULTULZ posted in post #48 and read all of what they had to say regarding a Hydroboost conversion kit they sell for Fox Body Mustangs

John,

The reason I posted the URL was to reference a quote from their TECH. Most of the info there is related to an earlier MUST only. It is this 2003 MC that needs to be defined.

What you have is going to be fine (IMO), once proper plumbing is established.

[KYBlueOval]

KULTULZ......After reading the Maximum Motor Sports website, it seems they much prefer a written question, rather than a phone call. So I sent a written request containing several plumbing questions.Their site said it could take several days for a reply. Time will tell if I get a response/reply.
In thinking through the various parts that I have assembled for my "brake system", it dawned on me that although the MC Reservoir is not divided, it appears that the actual MC is. And this point may have been discussed before in this thread, so excuse me if I'm repeating what has already been posted.
The MC has two "bleeders" on the engine side of the MC. My thinking is that the only reason for two separate bleeders,is there must be two separate sections inside the MC. DUH! Which would compensate for the lack of separate sections in the MC Reservoir.
This is just a WAG (Wild Ass Guess) on my part, the more knowledgeable guys, like you, on this site will weigh in and set the record straight......I hope.
John

[KYBlueOval]

I contacted Maximum Motor Sports and asked several questions regarding the use of 2003 Mustang Brake Parts on my Ranchero. The most important questions I asked were 1) The correct MC plumbing connections 2) The use/need for the PPV as shown in Post #18.  3) Is the MC constructed such, that if I were to rupture the rear brake flexible line, would I lose all braking?

The answer they gave on #1 is "99% of all cars have the front brakes connected to the port closest to the firewall"

The answer to #2 Since I have a Wilwood PPV in the rear brake line I do not want to have the OEM PPV as shown in post #18 in the system.

The answer to #3 was that if the rear brake line was to incur a rupture, I would have front brakes.The reverse situation, no front brakes, I would have rear brakes.
John

[KULTULZ]

I contacted Maximum Motor Sports and asked several questions regarding the use of 2003 Mustang Brake Parts on my Ranchero. The most important questions I asked were 1) The correct MC plumbing connections 2) The use/need for the PPV as shown in Post #18.  3) Is the MC constructed such, that if I were to rupture the rear brake flexible line, would I lose all braking?

The answer they gave on #1 is "99% of all cars have the front brakes connected to the port closest to the firewall"

That is possibly true, but one wants to know exactly before he busts his butt and/or tears up his ride and face a possible civil suit. Their answer is a 'guess'.

Brake system designs have changed significantly since the sixties/seventies.

The answer to #2 Since I have a Wilwood PPV in the rear brake line I do not want to have the OEM PPV as shown in post #18 in the system.

Correct. You want to use one or the other as you cannot use both. It may be possible the OEM PPV will work on your application. You would need the PPV knee point and slope info (found in the WSM) and test the car from there. If unbalanced, you have to go with the 'spin for a possible solution' adjustable anti-bias valve.

The answer to #3 was that if the rear brake line was to incur a rupture, I would have front brakes.The reverse situation, no front brakes, I would have rear brakes.

John

Correct. That was the reason for the 1967 FEDERAL MANDATE, to make braking safer. The design is in the MC, not the PDV.

I wish you luck at the dealer later this morning,

[KULTULZ]

Here is a tutorial that may help explain theory -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gD7X9kgj_k

[RICH MUISE]

Well, whichever way you decide to go, I'm sure you're gonna do some serious testing in a safe area. If it were me, I'd just make a decision and go for it before I wore my brain out overthinking it. It's gonna be a while before you get to that point, if I'm still around and have my '57, I'll be watching to see how your brakes work out. I did actually look at my plumbing to see how hard it would be to switch ports, and it actually will be pretty easy because I have loops in the lines there. I'm sure it'll take much longer to rebleed.

[KYBlueOval]

Well a local Ford Dealer was not much help. He was more than willing to print information, but none of it showed the brake system in it's entirety.
So based on what I have learned from those that have replied, and more reading and research than I care to think about, I'm moving on. The MC I'm using is for a '03 Mustang W/O Traction Control. It is attached to a '03 Mustang GT HydroBoost. The donor car had ABS and Traction Control. My Ranchero has neither. The port closest to the firewall in connected to the Front Brake Circuit.
There is a Wilwood Proportioning Valve in the Rear Brake Circuit. If anyone wants to know the piston sizes or other particular specs, I'll be glad to post what I know. When I have this Ranchero up and running, I let you know how this Shade Tree Engineered Brake system works.
John

[RICH MUISE]

Did a small car show put on by the local Mustang club. As it turns out, one of their club officers was there with his '03 w/ hydroboost. Better yet, he is a lead mechanic at the local Ford dealer. First, I got a decent look at his setup, and because of the OEM valve/ block, you can't tell which port is which, however, I talked to him at length. He confirmed what you found out..his car, the front port goes to the rear, and the rear port goes to the front brakes. So, if I were you, John, that's the way I would do it. Mine may be backwards from OEM setup, but the proportioning valve we are both using makes up for that difference. He did give the opinion on mine that if everything is working well, it would be silly to change it.

[KULTULZ]

Mine may be backwards from OEM setup, but the proportioning valve we are both using makes up for that difference. He did give the opinion on mine that if everything is working well, it would be silly to change it.

You have a PPV in the front brake circuit and the guy said that was OK? And you believe his advice?

[RICH MUISE]

My proportioning valve is in the rear brakes as it should be.. Not sure where you got the idea I had it adjusting the front brakes. So yes, I trust his advise.

[KULTULZ]

My proportioning valve is in the rear brakes as it should be.. Not sure where you got the idea I had it adjusting the front brakes. So yes, I trust his advise.

Listen, I am only trying to help here. I didn't mean to upset you.

Simply put, you cannot plumb a braking system without knowing which circuit is which.

He confirmed what you found out..his car, the front port goes to the rear, and the rear port goes to the front brakes. So, if I were you, John, that's the way I would do it. Mine may be backwards from OEM setup, but the proportioning valve we are both using makes up for that difference. He did give the opinion on mine that if everything is working well, it would be silly to change it.

And he is a LEAD TECH at a dealership?

And where was it found definitely the MC rear power goes to the front brake circuit? The only way to know without FORD TECH INFO is with a pair of gauges.

[KULTULZ]

Can this thread be moved to the OTHER BRAKE ISSUES FORUM?

It may get lost here and if in the correct forum, someone may come across it and answer the question

I am too cheap to buy a WSM,

THANX!