opinion needed..is THIS the engine?

RICH MUISE · 2012-11-30 08:49

Just when I had almost talked myself out of doing the 4.6 DOHC Lincoln/4R70W conversion for something easier (351,302??), I got jazzed up about seeing that HAMB album on the red and white custom, and to add to it, I ran across what I think may be what I need when I wasn't even looking.
Here's where I'm at..5 years ago I bought a trashed 94 Markviii with a good but high mileage (165k) engine, and a good tranny...I drove it home. My plans were to get the engine and tranny rebuilt before install, but that changed when I got pricing on rebuilds, and compared it to a Ford Racing Crate engine..my eventual goal. My recent thoughts have drifted towards finding a low mileage Markviii and installing that without a rebuild. I was hoping to find something in the 40-50K mileage range..which is something I would consider low for these engines. what I found this week is a '94 engine, already pulled with 72K, I can get delivered to Amarillo for 1,000. The best thing is the reliability of the source sellig it. What do you guys think? Is the mileage low enough to install without more than a tune-up, and what about pricing? Keep in mind anything bought out of the area would probably have a few hundred shipping costs. I still have the Mark viii I can pull the tranny, shifter, and computer out of.
If I'm going to do the 4.6, I want it to be from a '93-95 (maybe96) Mark viii because of block strength and no PATS system to deal with.

Ford Blue blood · 2012-11-30 09:23

It is a good engine to just drop in! The old "100K = problems" is out the window with the newer engine management systems. Computer controlled car fall apart around the drive train now unlike the stuff we are working on where the body outlasted the drive train by decades! Go to the MKVIII site and look around there, the AOD in those years had a small issue that is an easy fix (you can do it at home) and there were some issues with the "secondary" intake actuators, again an easy at home fix. I really wouldn't be afraid of the 165K engine if you know it's history....I think you have the desirable block in that 93 as well.

robhaerr · 2012-11-30 11:18

Hard for me to really chime in here...but I will anyway...

Of course, I am just now driving the wagon after the 302 install...but my first choice was a 351. A 60s big block would have been cool, too. But, my goal/theme was to be "low-tech" resto-mod. No computers.

After the install...I am so glad my buddy Steve had that 302 in his garage that we rebuilt. The main reason is all the room in the engine bay to work on things...not just the engine, but the other components, too. It was also low-tech on my wallet.

Your mileage may vary...just the reasoning behind my decision.

Oh wait...I did just install a cheap electronic tach, the motor does have a Ready-to-Run MSD electronic distributor...and there is a CD player. So, several decades married on this 'wagon.

Rob

Frankenstein57 · 2012-11-30 18:47

Rich, I have a friend who races SCCA road course events, he is also an instructor. He has 3 Mustangs set up for racing, one is a 2000 cobra R. Kind of a limited production deal Ford was involved in. That car has the 32 valve engine, I did a ride along in it and he beats the living snot out of it, no problems. It's also stock, no mods. So he's thinking he needs more power, has a big power version built and drops a valve. He says those engines will go 200-250,000 with no problems. So if the budget is tight put the high mileage one in, Mark

len · 2012-11-30 19:43

hey rich. i have been selling used engines probably to the tune of 3 a day for the last 25 years.anything under 200,000 kms is considered low miles in the industry these days.that is about 120,000 miles in your lingo. 20 years ago you bought salvage knowing you were gonna sell the engine right away. now its the tranys that dont seem to last but the engines go forever.there are exceptions of course but that isnt one of them.the 302 that i am dropping into my ranchero this week as 276,000 kms.i am only putting it in temporarrily but i just pulled the timing cover to at least put in a new chain and lo and behold it had a double roller and i didnt even need to do that.it runs like new.just my 2 bits worth.len

RICH MUISE · 2012-11-30 21:24

Thanks for the input guys. Yeah, the budget is tight, but it always has been, and I manage to get it done the way I want....just takes a while longer. The RF engine management system is about a grand also if I remember. I know there are you guys out there that would adapt the mark viii stock wiring, but that's definetly above my capabilities, so the RF kit with the "paint by numbers" instructions is a no brainer for me. I'm going to get a copy of the threads Canadian Ranchero and the socal guy did for my hot rod/restoration shop friend to lookover as I'm going to have him set the engine and tranny in for me, and I'll take it from there. I have neither the tig welding exper., or an adequate garage (dirt floor covered with heavy vinyl) to get it done even if I knew where to start.
Lol...just had my birthday a few days ago, and the wife told me if I waited until after the first of the year for my b'day and Christmas, she'd buy me one of the big ticket items left to get for my '57..hell yes! I won't push it and ask for a Ford Racing crate engine though.

gasman826 · 2012-12-01 08:27

I've had several Ford Performance Products (FPP) pieces. When I need something non-OEM, the FPP catalog is one of my first references. BUT, I discovered the hard way that not all crate motors are created equal. Bless their hearts, FPP engineered the 514! I bought one. I wore one out. I was screwed because FPP did not support replacement parts. FPP is big enough to get a run of parts made for a special application (514). When the run ends, the parts are used up and there are no replacements. I needed one piston and a set of rings. I searched everywhere and found a bunch of other guys looking for the same piston. One used piston would have cost as much as a whole set.
Now I spec out an engine with the help of an experienced, race engine builder and use 'off the shelf' parts from suppliers with history.
Another issue with some of the big crate engine suppliers is the warranty. I have read about issues. My local engine builder does the machine work and mock fits everything. He assembles the engine for a couple hundred dollars and guarantees it. I had a distributor gear failure...not even his fault. I took the engine back to him. He did a complete disassembly, cleaning, bearings, gaskets, distributor gear, and assembly. NO CHARGE!!! I got my $200.00 worth and then some. I would still like to build my engines but for the guarantee, I can't!

RICH MUISE · 2012-12-01 08:55

Interesting input on the crate engines I hadn't thought about or was aware of. I just thought for reliability a crate engine had to be better than a rebuild. For sure a lot depends on the rebuilder, but I wasn't aware of the lack of parts support on some of the crate engines. Thanks for that info Gary.
I'm going to try and imbed a link here...http://www.ronfrancis.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MK%2D93
may have worked! It did..yeah..if any of you guys are interested, you can check on the installation instructions on the link to see what I'm talking about.
This is the scary part of the project for me.The RF kit with the the telorvek panel has up to 120 wires. It basically is a connection between the engine sensors and the computer, allowing the computer and panel to be placed anywhere in the car...even the trunk. It is designed to incorporate all engine sensors, just as if it were added to a Mark viii complete car.
It is designed to be used with a complete Mark viii system., including transmision, in-tank fuel pump, the Mark viii radiator cooling fans, code reader interface, etc. so a lot more than just the engine and computer are needed. It warns that if some sensors are deleted, miswired or bypassed, it could lock the system up...causing it to operate in a "back-up" mode.
I could have someone do the wiring for me...I'm sure a a couple grand...but I'd have a car I didn't understand if something, correction: WHEN something, went wrong...so I'm weighing that with against getting in over my head.

Ford Blue blood · 2012-12-01 10:18

You can "unlock" it with disconnecting the battery and shorting the positive and negative leads together for one minute. This action clears the computer of all faults and codes and puts it back into an "un-run" state which = it needs to learn everything all over again.

Rich look around a little, there are suppliers out there that have stand alone systems that will run the engine and transmission with no issues and it is really hard to mess up connections because the connectors are all different.

Ford Blue blood · 2012-12-01 11:02

Acouple of suppliers,

http://www.thedetailzone.com/Ford%204.6%20&%205.4%20EFI.htm

http://www.autoworksracing.com/ford_4.htm

good info in this one,

http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/engine/mdmp_1004_modular_engine_swap_wiring/viewall.html

RICH MUISE · 2012-12-01 11:41

Thanks Bill..the first two you gave are the same as what I linked to. (detail zone is a division of Ron Francis)..not sure of the second one, but price, kit numbers, and even the wording is right from RF/DetailZone.
Interesting info on the Mustangs/Ford link. Unfortunatly that Ford Racingkit referenced sounds like an easier setup, but is only for the Mustang 3 valve and Ford crate motors...when I get a minute I'll check out Ford Racing for any posible updates.

RICH MUISE · 2012-12-01 12:35

Bill..was thinking about your comments..I take from them you're saying I'm making too big of a deal out of it, and it's not that difficult? lol...Maybe I should dig my "I can do this" hat out of the trash?

Ford Blue blood · 2012-12-01 17:01

Rich the electronics will probably be the easy part of the install.....but then again I am an electronics technician by trade. The folks I have dealt with that have used the after market wiring kits are well pleased with ease of intsallation. Most all hook-ups for EFI do break down into a basic four wire hook up plus the fuel pump control.

Street and Performance in Mena, AR has Ford wiring as well.

RICH MUISE · 2012-12-02 12:16

I'll check out that source as well..lol when I first read it I thought you did a typo and meant Mesa,ARizona. Of course AR is Arkansas, and there is a Mena. Does anyone else still hate these 2 digit abbreviations after all these years?

RICH MUISE · 2012-12-02 12:52

Got to taking a closer look at the Telorvek wiring harness, and you're right Bill..should be easy, just tedious. Note all of the bundles have connectors..just plug 'em in. As near as I can tell, everything has the connectors except ground and power supply.

News:

opinion needed..is THIS the engine?