I am attempting to install the proper size battery and hold down in my 57 Custom. My question is are the battery hold down J bolts two different lengths? The one that hooks to the core support appears to be to short. Thanks
Yes they are. Best I remember the long one goes near the starter solenoid. FWIW: I've got 3 new batteries sitting here that are replicas of the original battery. Two wet cells and one jell cell. None of which will turn over a FE engine that's been running long enough to come up to temperature. One manufacture listed a 625 CCA on his battery. When we checked it (the wet cells) they had @ 400 CCA brand new fully charged. I used the rods and made my own hold down.
Not to steal the thread but my 462 FE with 11.2 compression turns over like crazy with a Motorcraft original size battery (400 or so CCA) AND cables. Jim, what are you using for a starter motor?
Oh yea, the J bolts are different length. :003:
If you have headers could be the starter is getting heat soaked. I had the that problem with my 514 big block with the battery in the trunk. I replaced the stock starter with one those ebay chinese PMGR starters. Best thing I ever did, cranks over the same whether hot or cold. My battery is a wimpy 450 cca also.
Quote from: lalessi1 on 2018-01-15 15:42
Not to steal the thread but my 462 FE with 11.2 compression turns over like crazy with a Motorcraft original size battery (400 or so CCA) AND cables. Jim, what are you using for a starter motor?
Oh yea, the J bolts are different length. :003:
I'm running a Powermaster 3131 High torque starter. I get my batteries at NAPA, usually about 625 CCA as I remember. Yes, I run headers also. I watched the NAPA guy put his meter on the Power Punch I'd bought and it read around 400CCA (advertised for 525CCA) then he went straight to the Napa battery and it read exactly what was advertised. When you drive to a show, they say park here, you turn off the engine and they tell you to move to another spot and the engine won't crank until everything cools down you get aggravated. I've run Napa batteries for 8 years at a time and didn't have any problems.
Here is the original post way back when, My memory isn't that good. Sorry for the mis-information. I gave Battery Exchange too much credit for the CCA of their battery.
Guys,
I gotta tell you about this one. I bought a Wet Cell classic car battery once and it wouldn't turn my car over after the car got hot. They advertised 650 cranking amps and Napa found out it only had about 250. The people from Battery Exchange sent me another one and it didn't do any better. Out $350.00.
Last year I bought a Classic Car Battery from another place that was really an Odyssey Gell Cell inside. It worked good this summer and the cars been sitting out in the hanger for about a month now and it won't even turn the engine over now. That one cost me another $350.00. My car will never have another Power Punch restoration battery in it. If you remember correctly we had better batteries 55 years ago than these sleezey company's can reproduce today. I wish I lived close enough to that place that makes these pieces of _ _ _ _. I'd return it through the store front window at about 1:30 am in the morning. Jim PS Moral of story is don't buy from Auto Battery Exchange or a company that sells thier batteries. I thought I was buying from another company this last time but it was a middle man that just got a piece of the action by advertising their junk. EDIT: It's a heated hanger for God's sake. It doesn't go below 45 degrees. I'm pissed
Jim, so your starter is working with the NAPA battery now? I bought a Motorcraft BH-29NF (original size battery) from the Ford dealer for about $100. I have an MSD DynaForce 5093 starter that has a 3.4 hp motor and 4.4 to 1 gear reduction, they say it will start FE engines with up to 18 to1 compression ratio. I am very happy with the combination.
the front battery hold down bolt is much shorter than the rear. The battery is a group size 29NF. There was an optional group size 32, but you are not going to find that except at a specialty restoration parts store. It takes a different hold down and tray. It was used in the Thunderbird and may have been used in cars with factory air.
You can get the 29NF battery at several places, like Interstate Battery, Napa and some other auto parts stores. The hold downs and bolts are sold by all the parts suppliers like Macs, Concourse parts and many others. I have a 57 Skyliner with factory air and I use an interstate battery and have no problems starting my Y block. I had a 61 Ford with a 390 and it also had the 29NF battery size and I never had any starting problems with it.
Thanks for the help guys. I purchased a Group 29NF battery from NAPA. Works good so far but as of right now I still have a 223 six. I also bought a hold down and J bolts from Dennis Carpenter. The hold down is good but both J bolts were the same length. What I found was that the front J bolt is longer than the rear bolt. I purchased a universal J bolt kit and cut the front bolt to the correct length.
Quote from: troublemaker427 on 2018-01-16 08:39
Thanks for the help guys. I purchased a Group 29NF battery from NAPA. Works good so far but as of right now I still have a 223 six. I also bought a hold down and J bolts from Dennis Carpenter. The hold down is good but both J bolts were the same length. What I found was that the front J bolt is longer than the rear bolt. I purchased a universal J bolt kit and cut the front bolt to the correct length.
Jody, I didn't know NAPA made a battery for our cars. I've got two different size hold downs and a bunch of J-bolts that I haven't been able to use. I'll look up the 29NF battery you speak of. NAPA has good batteries, don't know who makes them but they've always done good by me. Thanks
Opps, 390 cca. Not enough for me with FE and headers.
I quit screwing around with wet cell batteries several years ago. I have OPTIMA batteries in everything. They can be mounted anywhere (even upside down). They need no vent for trunk mount (NHRA). No acid fumes rotting the hood or core support. Won't explode. The only batteries that would spin diesel farm equipment in the winter. I've never gotten less than five years out of any of them. 800CCA!!!!
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/optima-redtop-starting-battery-group-size-34-78-800-cca-34-78-980/16080024-P?navigationPath=L1*14920%7CL2*15000%7CL3*15597
As i recall, i cut the front bolt to proper length and cut more threads. Kind of tricky to hold it in place when installing hold down.
Quote from: gasman826 on 2018-01-16 10:58
I quit screwing around with wet cell batteries several years ago. I have OPTIMA batteries in everything. They can be mounted anywhere (even upside down). They need no vent for trunk mount (NHRA). No acid fumes rotting the hood or core support. Won't explode. The only batteries that would spin diesel farm equipment in the winter. I've never gotten less than five years out of any of them. 800CCA!!!!
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/optima-redtop-starting-battery-group-size-34-78-800-cca-34-78-980/16080024-P?navigationPath=L1*14920%7CL2*15000%7CL3*15597
Gasman, I think he's looking for something that looks original. I started out doing that and it didn't take long for me to figure out if I was going to drive the car very much things like tires, batteries, lights, wheels, motors, transmissions, rear ends, brakes etc. might need to be updated. I just won't change the body, dash, trunk or interior. That has to be stock appearing with me.
Here is another opinion on the battery hold down J bolts. A fellow forum member who is restoring a 57 business coupe came by the shop today and brought his set with him. He said that the Ford book states that they are both the same length. This does not apply to Thunderbirds.
First of all you have to have the original battery box and the core support has to be unaltered in that area.
They are both the same length.... 5 3/4 inches long. One fits in a slot on the core support and the other fits in a slot on the back of the battery box. (solenoid side)
Look closely at the picture and you can see the different diameters and J hook edges .
One is 1/4 " in diameter.
The other is 5/16 " in diameter.
The J bolt hooks are respectively different. The slots on the side of the battery box and core support are different also.
Battery info,
Hold downs bolts are both 5.72" long (B7A-10756-A), also BOTH are 5/16"-18 (some 1949-56 are 3/8").
There are 2 different batteries, Std was the 29, Optional was the Group 27 (not the 32, it was used on 56 and 56-7 Birds)
There are 2 battery boxes, Std 29 batteries used the B7A-10732-A and the 27 used the B7A-10732-B which is 1/2" wider on the engine side.
Vendors are selling a repro box marked as a -B but, it is in fact a std -A. ( I have a NOS -B box in my collection plus the one in my factory
SelectAire 57 Skyliner.)
There are 2 hold down clamps, the one for 27 being 7.04" wide X 12.60" long. I've never had one of those but, still looking! (B7A-10716-B)
Ron.
I always thought it odd that a Group 24 Optima (same width as Group 27) fit in my wagon. Could the tray been an optional one??
Ron
Thanks for the info. I was not aware of the two battery box sizes. I'll have to go out and measure mine to see for sure what I have. Jay
I stand corrected. The group 32 battery was only an option in the Thunderbird.
Both of my J hooks are hooked in the correct locations, battery box/core support and the one on the battery box will not reach the core support slot and still go through the hold down. I made a longer hook for the front and the battery is secure....
The hold down clip on the front of my battery hold down is offset downward....
Guys,
The optional 27 tray is straight along the engine side. The std 29 tray steps back about a 1/2" about 1 1/2" from the front (core support).
The correct hold downs have the step downs.
Ron.
That explains it then. The repop hold down does not have the step down. They are straight across.
Quote from: SkylinerRon on 2018-01-16 22:51
Battery info,
Hold downs bolts are both 5.72" long (B7A-10756-A), also BOTH are 5/16"-18 (some 1949-56 are 3/8").
Ron.
I want to order a set of those battery hold down bolts that Ron described above for myself. What vender is selling them? How much? Thanks Jay
Quote from: Ecode70D on 2018-01-19 08:17
I want to order a set of those battery hold down bolts that Ron described above for myself. What vender is selling them? How much? Thanks Jay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Ford-Battery-Hold-down-Bracket-B7A-10756-A-Fomoco-1957-1958-Galaxie-J-Hook/162236909130?epid=1393749923&hash=item25c612c64a:g:uIkAAOSw-CpX~otW
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-1958-57-58-FORD-BATTERY-HOLD-DOWN-BOLT-KIT-NEW-6-INCHES-NEW/191657925389?hash=item2c9fb3db0d:g:ZxAAAOSwk~ZZ~6hC
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1957-Ford-Fairlane-custom-ranchero-battery-hold-down-heater-hose-holder-1958/112762488016?hash=item1a412b04d0:g:C2kAAOSwFNZWzMkb
https://www.ebay.com/itm/57-58-1957-1958-FORD-CAR-BATTERY-HOLD-DOWN-BRACKET-CLAMP-NEW/192210717826?epid=1369195160&hash=item2cc0a6cc82:g:yyIAAMXQVERS2XfZ
Here is an original setup that was just listed. This shows the reason the repop needs the two lengths. As I said the repop is not stepped down on the one end. The repop is the lower listing.
I don't recall who I bought my repop from but it has the step down.
Concours repop has the step down....
http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb.dll?parta~dyndetail~Z5Z5Z50000051e~Z5Z5Z515266~P25.95~~~~S5410NSMOB98181114462x~Z5Z5Z5~Z5Z5Z50000051e
Most all of the usual Ford vendors have them.
I find a lot of ebay vendors don't know what is correct.
Ron.
Quote from: SkylinerRon on 2018-01-20 20:48
Most all of the usual Ford vendors have them.
I find a lot of ebay vendors don't know what is correct.
Ron.
You are correct, I find that problem on Ebay all the time. If I recall the straight across type hold down was for the trucks..
Wow, lots of nice information here. That hold down frame and battery trouble has been bothering me ever since I bought my first 57. Obviously back then I also got the wrong aftermarket thing and I have it in its package to this day, 20 years later... would the 27 style battery hold down frame be of the same design like a 29 style, only 1/2" wider ? Would be easy to widen a small one.
The concour part that Lynn posted is very reasonable, if not downright cheap.
I would think the 27 hold down is the basicly the same as the 29 only a 1/2" wider on the engine side, although I haven't had both
battery boxes next to each other to compare the details.
Don't think that i'll ever find a NOS 27 one and the originals are probably rusted to dust. Couldn't believe it when I found the NOS
27 tray at a Mustang II vendor years ago.
Ron.
I actually found a really nice battery box attached to the inner fender/splash apron I was purchasing for my car. I paid $40 for the inner fender with the battery box. A lucky find as I needed both.
I found my OEM 27 battery tray on eBay, it was a little rusty but not rusted through anywhere. Very happy with it. It is nice to me to have original stuff that matches the rest of the car.
Quote from: terry_208 on 2018-01-22 12:05
I actually found a really nice battery box attached to the inner fender/splash apron I was purchasing for my car. I paid $40 for the inner fender with the battery box. A lucky find as I needed both.
WOW Terry That's like the carbon copy of how I accidentally found my rust free California battery box. Mine was still bolted to the rust free California inner fenders that I bought on the internet years ago. At the time I really needed one too.
I get lucky once in a while. Today I located a pristine hood w/i 40 minutes of my house. All I have to do is give time for my fused back to heal. Surgery was on the 17th., of January.
Terry
Right now you have to heal first. You don't want be lifting anything. Do you have someone that can get the hood for you? If not can you somehow secure it so you can get it later?
I think I have a hold on it...I offered him almost double what he was asking. I saw one advertised at quite some distance and calculated the purchase cost and the travel costs and made a little lower offer. I believe I have someone who will pick it up for me. I'll know this evening.
I am sorry for hijacking the thread!
Universal battery holddown
That is truly dangerous on so many levels LOL!
Ron.
Quote from: SkylinerRon on 2018-01-24 00:12
That is truly dangerous on so many levels LOL!
Ron.
X2 what Ron says.
If that battery is under the front fender like I think I'm seeing it, how in the world do they get to it?
living on the edge!
Access by taking off the tire. Several OEM applications have batteries buried with much less access. This is a gel battery and needs no maintenance...easily disconnected, tested, or charged from under the hood and it doesn't vent. One of my 'to dos' is to replace the tarp strap and put a booty on the cable. Battery relocation to the fender behind the front tire is common in fat fender '30s and '40s customs.
Quote from: gasman826 on 2018-01-24 07:07
living on the edge!
Battery relocation to the fender behind the front tire is common in fat fender '30s and '40s customs.
Yup...been there on my 36 since 1980. Never had a problem with the set up over the 136K miles, all kinds of weather, and all kinds of roads.
interesting.
Hate to see that strap break and the battery fall onto the tire.
Acid, sparks and heavy objects flying around scare me!
Water and dirt spraying on your connections isn't good also.
Goodluck,
Ron.
If you could build a plastic cover to keep the grime off it and secure it properly it should be ok. I put mine in the trunk where it belongs. :003:
Cleans up the engine compartment a bit to.
Here is my before and after battery install. Found the gas can, hollowed it out and dropped in place. The suitcase has my oil, tools, wiping rags, bottle opener and other clutter.
Wow! Thats looks great!