remote solenoid for computer equipt cars?

[RICH MUISE]

I picked up a remote solenoid today, and the first thing I read on the info sheet with it was:
"Do not use this solenoid on vehichles equipt with an on board computer (mine). Use of this solenoid will result in permanent damage to the eec processor. Vehicles with a computer require a solenoid with suppression diodes"
Anybody here done the remote start on a computer equipt car? If so, got a number for a correct solenoid?

[gasman826]

As I wrote in one of the other pages, I don't see the remote starter relay buying you anything.  On my 4.6, there are other feeds off the OEM starter solenoid.  You would have to rewire these feeds to the battery or at least the battery side of the remote relay.  On my '57, I am using a remote starter relay so the long cable from the trunk mount battery is hot in only crank mode.  All power feeds and especially the ECU power and ground wires are all 'home runs' to the battery shut-off.  I have one little wire(22 gauge) running directly to the battery for memory.  Most of the power requirements in the ECU are milliamps/millivolts so a power surge could be fatal and a backfire up the negative side of things certainly would be.

Just thinking here, if it was me and the OEM solenoid is that hard to get at, when I was changing out that new solenoid, I would run me a couple of wires for a remote starter button.  Us Ford people are so spoiled, for so many years we have had the starter relay mounted on the inner fender for an easy hook up to a starter button.  Without being able to bump the motor over, I don't know how anyone works on those other brands!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RICH MUISE]

I did post it twice, sorry, wanted to make sure you or Bill saw it. I posted a link to a website that explains the advantage and why it works better than I could.
So, your suggesting  a remote starter button could be added instead of the remote solenoid? Could that be left under the hood permanently so it could be used if needed?, and would that button function if the solenoid was in the overheated state.
Any ideas on where to find a remote solenoid with suppression diodes if that is the direction I need to go in? Are you using one in your 57? couldn't remember if your '57 had a computer, apparently it does.

[gasman826]

I'm going out on a limb...somebody is not going to like what I'm saying but it is my opinion.  I think the second relay is a patch and adds more potential problems than it fixes.  Now you've added another relay and more connections to maintain.  If not properly maintained, more connections to diagnose when something fails.  You have a good battery, new cables (probably bigger cables).  I've run a 460 +.030 with 13:1 pistons in my '57.  Take about heat soak, stick your head under that hood.  I run a gel battery with very good CCAs in the trunk with a really long, BIG cable.  The starter relay is in the trunk so the cable is only hot while in crank mode.  The relay is the HD 460 version used in mid '70s Lincolns (no computers).  The new '57 will be aftermarket, FAST EFI controlling the max bored 460 (557 ci).  FAST instructions are very clear about running 'home runs' for the power and ground all the way to the battery for 'clean' power and 'noise' free ground.  There was no mention of where the starter relay was located or diode protected.  I am expecting heat issues and planning accordingly.  The mufflers will be shielded as well as any exhaust pipe coming near fuel lines, pumps, fuel tank, wiring, etc.  I also run a POWERMASTER premium starter and large cables (I make them so as not to be too expensive). 
I'm saying is to fix the problem and not band aid it.  It will return to haunt you.
The starter button wires are just my two cents...I would do it.  And yes, the manual starter button would act the same as the remote starter relay that you are considering.  I've seen several old GMs that would not crank with the key and someone would crawl under and jump the solenoid with a screwdriver to make the starter crank over.  You're doing the same thing when you attach a starter button to the relay bolted to the inner fender on older Fords...just easier.
So I am assuming that when you hit the key to crank mode and the starter does not crank, there is NO click...the solenoid does not attempt to engage.  If there is no click, make sure there is not a control issue...is there voltage to the solenoid control terminal...the small wire that bolts to the solenoid should have 12v or more with the ignition switch in crank mode.  You'll need help or rig a test light (multimeter would be better) to the crank terminal on the solenoid.  It should light when you turn the key to crank mode.  Now you know whether it is a control issue or solenoid/starter issue.

[dgasman]

I agree with gasman826 about adding the extra soliniod , but if you want to add it use a diode suppressed  soliniod from any ford from 1990 and newer. Ford used them with all computer controlled cars . The reason ford used them is because when the soliniod opens after cranking there can be a voltage/ amperage feed back spike from the soliniod coil that can damage the computer.

[lalessi1]

The reason ford used them is because when the soliniod opens after cranking there can be a voltage/ amperage feed back spike from the soliniod coil that can damage the computer.

Makes sense to me...after my confusion.

Rich, it seems that you think that you have a voltage drop in the actuating wire to the solenoid due to heat soak? A remote solenoid would serve as a relay for that voltage?
 

[RICH MUISE]

To be honest, I don't know what I've got. When the problem arose, it was very consistent in not starting if the car had been run long enough to get it to normal operating temps. Until today, it consitently started after the car cooled for 1/2 hour. When I posted that problem on the 'net, I got many responses indicating it was a common problem easily fixed by moving the solenoid away from the heat source. Most said the exhaust wrap helped, but did not fix the problem in most cases. Everything I read said the remote solenoid was a sure fire fix, with years of no problem starting.  It could just be an issue with a weak solenoid, as soon as I can manuver my old body enough to get the new one installed, I'll find out.
For a week it was just so obviously a heat caused problem, now the questions are is it a heat induced problem that is occuring because of a weak part/component, or is it a heat problem that will effect even up to snuff components. To answer your question Lynn, the remote starter supposedly insures that the starter gets full battery voltage
I do know the battery is good. The cables probably overkill. #1 gage from Ron Francis....100 bucks for a pair of 60" cables. I checked the battery and all clamps everything was 12.92 volts. I also checked the starter cables at the starter with key off. 12.92 volts again. I have actually the battery cable wire mentioned, a heavy alternator wire, #4?, and another probably 10 gage wire that are all connected at the solenoid on the main post. I'll need to check the wiring instructions to see where that 10 gage wire went to. I also have a 4th smaller wire connected to the small terminal on the solenoid...I believe the ignition switch? Once again, bad memory I need to check that routing out. The negative battery cable is tied in under one of the starter mount bolts.
Edit...the #10 or 8 wire on the bat. terminal of the solinoid was the ignition wire, the smallre wire on the small terminal is the feed from the neutral switch .

[RICH MUISE]

BTW, I agree the remote solenoid addition is a patch, but what are the alternatives? I can't move the exhaust away from the oem solenoid. Trying to diffuse the heat with exhaust wrapping and shields will be done as well, and should help, but may not be enough, so......?
I like the Subaru method, btw.....starter is at the top of the bellhousing away from the exhaust and easy to get to!!

[lalessi1]

Perhaps the solenoid is physically sticking when it gets hot? Maybe its not a voltage issue... Is it new, rebuilt, or used?

[RICH MUISE]

Exactly....and I hope that IS the problem...easy fix except the phsically getting it off/on.
It's a autoZone rebuilt unit I put on when I wired up the car last year.

[Ford Blue blood]

It's a autoZone rebuilt unit I put on when I wired up the car last year.

I think you just nailed the issue...?  The local shop I hang out at with a bunch of us old car guys will not use Auto Zone electrical parts ever.  Too many come backs and bad out of the box stuff.

[RICH MUISE]

Apparently is was the issue....New starter and solenoid...started right up cold and hot. Cool. I'll keep my fingers crossed it doesn't reoccur.

[RICH MUISE]

LOL...apparently I need to remind me of what I actually did in the past...I said I had previously replaced the starter and solenoid with one from Autozone. I did not. Reading an old post I did, I only replaced the solenoid with a new one from EBAY.
Also, just for info...the remote solenoid I got ( and did not install) is actually stamped on the back "diode suppressed"

[Ford Blue blood]

Rich do you think the start problem might have been the cable all along?

[RICH MUISE]

Yes and No, when the no start began, it was consistently starting when cold, not starting when hot...(8 or 10 times, 4 or 5 days,)before it progressed to a total no start. I can't see how heat could have affected the cable...just a weird coincedence of the two seperate issues coming up at the same time I think. When it progressed to the no start however, that could have been/probably was the cable.
I was however for a while thinking along the lines of posibly the heat affecting the neutral switch somehow, but obvious now is the fact the neutral switch was not malfunctioning.