This last year I noticed my E-Code has been getting rather tiered and ready for a rebuild. Pulled a compression test yesterday and most all cylinders are in the 60's. I have another 312 block and crank that have had all the machine work done. My ? is, can I use my fresh block and crank or was or is the E code block different. It sure would be eazyer and way less expensive if I can use my block that is already done.
Usually pistons are bought first then the machine shop can over bore and final hone to fit each piston to their specific bore. If your block hasn't had a finishing hone you should be okay for whatever piston you go with, cast, hypers or forged.
When putting different pistons in, don't you have to stick with the same weight of piston or have the crankshaft balanced for the replacements?
I may have miss lead you. My ? is, is there any difference between the 245hp D code block and th E code block.
I believe the blocks are the same, it is what is inside them that counts.
My concern is if the car is a true E-CODE and the 312 8V is the engine that came in the car that using a different block may cause the engine not to be numbers correct (CASTING ID - DATE CODES) for the car and greatly diminish the value.
Anything on the internal of the engine you can cheat with but not the original engine castings (incl CARB - DIST - etc).
If you decide to go with the other block and the original block is correct for the car, hold onto it.
Alvin, I know your question still hasn't been answered exactly...the question being "is there a difference in the blocks?". I for sure don't know, but I'm wondering if there are casting numbers on the two blocks that could be compared to answer that question. Also, you didn't mention, if the newly rebuilt block is the same vintage (57?).
What Kultulz talked about with matching numbers is certainly something we're all at least somewhat familiar with in theory, but...........what numbers exactly are we talking about with '57 Fords. For my own info, I always assumed that "matching numbers" only meant that the engine COULD HAVE been in the car according to its in plate info, NOT that it was necessarily THE engine that came with it. Is that correct?
Besides the ECZ-6051** casting numbers there should be a date code cast in the block somewhere? Not sure about 57's but the 60's Fords a correct date code block would precede the build date of the car by around 2 weeks, give or take.
Let me try this again -
If the car itself is a true E-CODE assembled at the factory, part of it's worth will be the components of the car matching.
The engine itself will be the most important factor OF THE CAR'S VALUE. If it has an incorrect or junkyard substitute, it's value is not going to be as high as a car with the correct engine, and that is determined by CASTING INFO.
1) ENGINE BLOCK CASTING NOS (also heads, intake, timing cover, WP and others).
2) CASTING DATE CODES
3) FOUNDRY ID MARKINGS
4) THERE WILL BE STAMPED ON THE FRONT OF THE BLOCK THE ACTUAL ASSEMBLY DATE (IF COMPLETE ENGINE AND NOT A SERVICE REPLACEMENT BLOCK).
If you have no concern as to keeping the car correct, I apologize for posting.
CYL BLOCK ID - http://www.ford-y-block.com/Block%20identification.htm
EXCERPT TEXT FROM ABOVE SITE -
QuotePLEASE NOTE: 292 and 312 Blocks were machined from the same castings with the same markings.
If the following blocks have EBU main caps it is a 292, if it has ECZ main caps it is a 312.
ECZ-A 292-312 cu. in. V8 1956 ECZ 6015 A With EBU main caps =292. ECZ main caps =312 Check crank flange or main caps.
ECZ-B 292-312 cu in V8 1956-57 292 or 312
ECZ -C 312 cu. in. V8 1957 ECZ 6015 C. 292 with EBU main caps.
EDB-E 292 cu. in V8 1958-59 cars and trucks to April 59. 312 in Mercury Casting # above oil filter
B9AE-F 292 cu. in. V8 1959-60 cars and trucks. (312 with ECZ main caps, 1959 & 60 Mercury only)
C1AE-R 292 cu. in. V8 1961 cars and trucks www.ford-y-block.com
C2AE-C 292 cu. in. V8 1962 cars 62-64 trucks
B7ME 312 cu. in. V8 1962? later 312 replacement block. C2AE main webs. Only example seen was a marine engine
AGAIN - If the take-out block is correct and you decide not to use it, please do not CORE BARREL it.
Thanks, KULTULZ. Very good and informative info. When I get the motor out I will to do my home work. My car is not a E-code car,it was a 312 D-code. I got the E from a friend of mine that brought a true E code car to Mt from Calif. that was 12 years ago. The Block that I have is from my 57 T bird. I want to keep the E-code motor as original as I can, so I guess the casting #'s will be the deciding factor. Thanks for your help.
Great info, Kultutz. Thanks. I'm just wondering, Alvin's car aside, did the E or F code engines have any other changes to the internals, heads, etc., or is it only an intake change?
I've had two "E" code 57's (one retractable and one convertible) and one "F" bird. The "E" cars both had standard 57 312 blocks. (same as t-bird btw}. The "F" bird had a motor from ford racing in the day. Came from Wes Clark in Dallas. That one had an EDB 312 block. One of about ten we have seen over the years. There was a 285 hp option as well, not sure on that block. The t-bird people have a lot more background information on the motors. In particular Jim Weatherly in California and Don Antilla on the east coast.
My research on E codes shows no differences in engine internals from D code. Other than carburetion and related parts. the only differences I could find was one advance spring in the distributor, which is a different pert number. Correct me if I'm wrong.
distributor part number in particular
I thought I would let you know my wore out E Code is out of the car and is on the engine stand and apart. I really don't know how this old girl could still run. There has been pre detenation between the 2 center cylinders on the right bank, The head gasket was not sealed and you can see where it was firing from one cylinder to the other. The tops of these 2 pistons are very pitted and chewed up. The cam also is very pitted and starting to "flake" apart. Two different style pushrods, one bent a little. #7 cylinder has some deep gouges, and looks like someone had tryed to grind them out. A couple of broken rings, and all the pistons have been nerelaed [sp]. The block has never been bored, however someone did a cheap piss poor overhaul, that I don't know why lasted a long time. I have been running this mess for at least 12 years, It was just getting worse eveytime I started it. So hopefully in about 5 weeks it will be on the road again, with all new parts. I sure am glad I have another 312 block that has had all the machine work done, and is ready to be built. And as they say, life goes on.
Built Ford Tough! takes on a new meaning eh? LOL!!!
Good for you Alvin!! I think the spelling you were looking for is knurled..haha, I knew that because of my machine shop days.
I wish I had your engine rebuilding expertise.
- FYB E-CODE INFO SOURCES -
1) - https://www.eatonbalancing.com/
2) - http://www.ford-y-block.com/
3) - http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/default.aspx
The valve-train(s) were ISKY at that time. They are quality and still offer the same grinds.
Pay close attention to valve-train geometry and upper engine oiling.
Quote from: Ray on 2024-01-23 19:25distributor part number in particular
1957 FORD 312-8V (270HP) DIST ID STAMPING - FEH-12127-C
1957 BIRD 312-8V (270HP) DIST ID STAMPING - FEK-12127-B
DIST ADV CURVES can be found in the 1957 WSM - IGNITION - SPECIFICATIONS
There were many different parts released for the 285HP ENGINE as it was considered RACE.
Hopefully the deep gouges in cylinder #7 clean up with a .030 over bore. I see you have another finished block, so the old may be salvageable?
Quote from: alvin stadel on 2024-01-30 10:07There has been pre detenation between the 2 center cylinders on the right bank, The head gasket was not sealed and you can see where it was firing from one cylinder to the other. The tops of these 2 pistons are very pitted and chewed up. The cam also is very pitted and starting to "flake" apart.
Two different style pushrods, one bent a little. #7 cylinder has some deep gouges, and looks like someone had tryed to grind them out.
If you have the time to go through all of the TECH INFO, find the info on cyl head gasket failure and the reason(s) why and later posted cylinder heads.
The push-rods need to be replaced with tubular push-rods.
Hello As the above said, go over to the Y-Blocksforever forum. Those fellas know everthing about those engines. Ted Eaton has many articles on his website. John Mummert and son have made many videos about rebuilding them.
Just in case it was not mentioned. The main bearing caps should have ECZ on them.
WEll, the E-Code is rebuilt and in the car. I hope it runs as good or better than it looks. I have a few little things to wrap up today and hopefully tomarrow we can break in the cam. The down side of this is I will never be able to drive it on the highway, but I guess riding shotgun bets the hell out of just setting here looking at it.
Awesome! A true Ford man. Wish I lived closer.
Thomasso...you live closer to him than I do. LOL!!! I drove up there last summer to run around with him in his cars! I-90 is an easy drive from your place to his. Go for it!
(and yea...I know...I'm crazy...but that's a given.)
He's done a lot of nice things for me, so it was not a big choice to make! Go see him! :003: :burnout:
Hi What cam did did rebuilder use in rebuild? Inquiring minds want to know.
The cam I used is ID# EDB. I visited with Mummert, and he told me what I needed, but they didn't have one. So I contacted Delta Machine located in Tacoma Washington. They had one ready to go so in 4days I had a new cam and lifters. Both Mummert and Ken at Delta told me that the E code cam and the cam in the 312 T birds were the same.
I have no idea what the HP is now, the block is bored 60,000 and the heads are planed 20,000 so it should be kind of snorty and move right along for a 57 area 312. It sure has to be better than the nightmare it was.
Thanks for info about cam.. Was it a regrind or new core. From what info I have gathered Ford used the stock 1957 312 cam in both E and F code engine? The factory supercharger cookbook mentions both. I always thought factory F code, only used the EDB cam. The EDB cam is a .290 lift (ford called high lift with no timing numbers). I thinking e code engines with standard cam was rated a 270hp and 285 with hi-lift EDB cam. I had Oregon cams regind a stock cam to EDB specs, they said hot .016 valve lash, was told regrinds changes this as factory EDB was .019.
My cam is a regrind. Both Delta and Mummert said there have been a lot of cam failures with new cores, I don't know if that includes the Y block or not. Rather cold, snow and rain here today so the cam breack in will have to wait until next week, I'll let you know how it runs after that.