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My final roadtrip of the show season didn't end so well. I lost my engine!!!
I went to Medicine Park, OK. The night before, my car started running pretty crappy when I was getting close to my destination (220 miles). I thought maybe I got some bad gas. It was ok, with a definite lack of power at highway speeds, but when idling it was really rough. I checked everything I could for loose wires, etc. After the show, I headed home hoping a new tank of gas would resolve the issue. About 1/2 way home, after dark, and in a no-cell-phone area, I heard a noise, and the car started running much worse. With my fingers crossed, I made it to Memphis, (Tx) where I pulled over in a gas station to check things again. 85 miles from home, but now on a main highway (US287) I was going to try and make it home, but the car wouldn't start and cranking it over was blowing huge clouds of smoke out the right exhaust. I called AAA, and 7 1/2 hours later they finally located a tow for me.
Started pulling things apart last Monday. Pulled the right valve cover to check the timing chains, the larger one was a little loose, but not bad. Then I saw two roller rocker gizmos lying loose on top of the head. Both on the same cylinder. My neighbor had a bore scope/camera, and through the spark plug hole, we got a nice picture of my piston connecting rod being seen through the big hole in the top of the piston!! Piston was beaten to crap, and cylinder walls scored.
I've already got a replacement engine in from Engine World in California. It's a later '97 engine,(factory OBDII computer system)so I've got my fingers crossed that what I was told in the past about being able to convert the OBDII back to OBDI was good info. So far, everything looks pretty much the same on the engine block, just all the bolt-on stuff being different.
My son had already planned to visit from Florida for a few weeks, and he'll be here Saturday, so I'm hoping by the end of next week to be up and running again.
BTW, I had told Hugh last week about it, but I had told him at that point in time, we suspected the engine slipped a timing chain. I don't think that's the case, or there would have been more damage on that side, and the engine wouldn't have kept running for 20 miles until I shut it off.

I'm sure glad I hadn't sold the car yet, It had been so reliable, I'm not sure I would have believed what a new owner was telling me, and at the very least, I would have felt horrible! And the show in Medicine Park was really enjoyable, btw.

That sucks! It would be interesting to do an "autopsy". Sounds catastrophic and it makes me wonder what could have happened...

Not sure if I'll take it apart to look. After taking the valve cover off, I found what looked to be a split retainer for the valve stem. My best guess is I lost the first valve, and the pieces eventually, after a few hundred miles, jambed up the second valve. No noises whatsoever that I could hear until the second one went. The downside to these 4.6 dohc engines is the astronomical costs of rebuilding, if you can even find a qualified shop.

That is sad news  :005: I wish you better luck with the new one..

too bad , Rich ! That's annoying. Did you know the actual miles on that engine ?

I know this is a terrible idea, but is it possible to just replace/repair the cyl head and the destroyed piston? I mean it didn't eat a cam or such, so the debris and metal parts should only be in the pan/pump and filter. As long as the bore is still ok....just thinking...

Holy Crap!  Rich that is about the worse car show story I've ever heard!  Add to that, that's the first dropped valve story I've heard on the 4.6.  Those things are bullet proof, apparently not valve proof.....

The scope my neighbor/friend has showed some scoring of the cylinder wall. Before he came over with that scope, I was checking eBay for a replacement cylinder head. Not sure I would have gone that route anyway. The Lincoln manual has a half dozen pages on just replacing the timing chains, and requires special tools to hold the cams and crankshaft in place while you're doing that. The replacement engine costs not too much more than a timing chain and tensioner kit, and doing all that is above my pay grade anyway. Total cost on the engine including shipping to Texas from Cal. was 1400. That included 150. for home delivery with a tailgate lift. The trucker put it right in my garage for me.
The engine had "no more than 80k" on it when I got it, I added about 35-40 k miles to it. Engine World doesn't give you exact mileage, just the "no more than 80k" for any domestic engine (50k max for imports). The one I just got is much cleaner than the one I'm replacing was when I got it. I pulled the valve covers, and and everything was super clean inside as well. When you order an engine from them, they will do a videoed compression check and send it to you for your approval before they ship.

Rich. that is really horrible, sucks and I am sorry for that.
I have to agree with you on the sale of your car... that would have been worse... much worse.
I had a Model A coupe once... that I swear was cursed...... I had enough and decided to sell it..... but I had to replace the rad..... did that and $700 later I had a buyer coming that afternoon.
I took the car for a test ride to make sure the cooling system was functioning well. It sure was..... I was very happy because $30k was about to come my way that afternoon.
2 miles from my house..... the engine starts making a horrific Knock.
My heart sank and I was forced to tell the buyer that afternoon. Upon further inspection.... the crankshaft snapped at the first main.
I was so mad..I parted the car out into tiny pieces.

again.......very sorry..but We have all been there.
you will get this handled.

Yeah, thanks Jeff. You've no doubt been thankful that snapped crankshaft didn't happen just after it was sold. Many others wouldn't be thinking that way.
I've got a pretty good start on it. Hopefully this time next week my son and I will be finishing up reassembly.

Sad end to that engine.  But
You got a lot use out of it. 
I'm sure you endjoyed the season overall. 

It definitely was my best-ever show/road trip season (except for the ending, lol). I was almost starting to get tired of doing them. Only the Goodguys show in Fort Worth was a disappointment......mainly because of the heat. All the rest were great, especially the "Run to the Inn of the Mountain Gods".

x2 Rich. I am in the same school of trading/selling.
A friend of mine wants my 61 beetle, but I refuse to sell it to him, because I am not sure about the engine. I has less power output than it should have ( I guess....hard to tell with a 40 horse sewing machine in the back... :003: ).
I have reworked and tuned all the fuel and ignition parts and it's running nicely, doesn't overheat, doesn't smoke, doesn't make any noise...that IS phoney ! So far it has been very reliable even on the Autobahn, but I just don't know. I think the day after my friend would pick it up, it would throw a rod or valve. Those old cars can be silly....some want to stay with their current owners... :003:
I am glad you are still hanging on with your 57, even your son helping. it may  bring new motivation and momentum in enjoying your very pretty 57 !

Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2023-11-03 11:24didn't happen just after it was sold. Many others wouldn't be thinking that way.

Sooo...how goes the war?

It's a war!! we're ready to separate the engine from the tranny after dropping out the rack and pinion to get to the starter, and ran into a snag with the starter. The 3 bolts on the starter are a pain in the butt to get to, one you can't even see and have to reach all the way back from the front of the engine. Been there, done that in years past when a starter went out. The snag we ran into is the easy bolt to get to got the 10mm hex head rounded off. Maybe caused by my cheap sockets, and using a 12 point one instead of a good 6 point. We are trying to figure next step. We tried a pneumatic chisel trying to pop the head off. That's a no-go. I do have an air grinder with carbide bits and we may try that next, but first I want to see if we can even get the other two hard-to-reach bolts out.
If not, I'll undo everything that's on the core support and pull it, the grille and nosepiece off so we can clear a path to remove the engine and tranny as a unit. I do not have access to an overhead crane that would be necessary for the height to lift the engine and tranny.
Any ideas on removing stubborn bolts? For sure I'll locate a new pro-grade socket and maybe pick up an impact wrench. I'd rather not remove the tranny, but it would be easier access than fighting it from underneath.

 
   Visegrips are my go to for rounded off bolt heads.

since this is the easy to reach bolt. Do you still have a welder, Rich ? I drill out the threads from rather large nuts (M10 or 7/16 that is a 17mm or 11/16 wrench) and then slip it over the stud and weld it to the rounded head or broken stud with a real hot weld  and high Ampere setting. let cool off for a few seconds until the nut has changed from tomato red to blue, and unbolt the broken watchamacallitthingy.... :003: works all the time, even with  decades of frozen solid rusted junkyard car bolts....

Rich,
Can you drill a hole in the head of the bolt and use a regular screw extractor(easy-out)? Or can you get vice grips on the head from the side?

Any chance that you can hammer a slightly smaller SAE 6 point socket, over the partially rounded off bolt head? Between the tight fit, and the hammering, it MAY walk right out.

Quote from: djfordmanjack on 2023-11-06 13:53since this is the easy to reach bolt. Do you still have a welder, Rich ? I drill out the threads from rather large nuts (M10 or 7/16 that is a 17mm or 11/16 wrench) and then slip it over the stud and weld it to the rounded head or broken stud with a real hot weld  and high Ampere setting. let cool off for a few seconds until the nut has changed from tomato red to blue, and unbolt the broken watchamacallitthingy.... :003: works all the time, even with  decades of frozen solid rusted junkyard car bolts....

Never thought of that. Excellent idea. I'll keep that one in mind!   :006:

Got it done. With a better/new 6 point socket we were able to get the other two bolts out with little hassle. Just took the two of us. We then used an air grinder with a large carbide burr to grind the head off the stubborn one. Only took 10 minutes or so. The starter is out, we'll deal with the leftover stud in the bellousing after the engine is out. Should be out tomorrow........just need to locate my chains.
Derrick and I decided to head up to our old home area in Colorado for a few days.....after the replacement engine is dropped in and all hooked up on the underside...maybe this weekend.

Got 90% of the stuff done to the replacement engine needed before it goes in. If all goes well tomorrow, we may give it a shot by the afternoon. It's been many years since my son and I did a project together, been enjoying that.

Good for you Rich :001: I'm getting to the point of doubting I can do that kind of work :005:

Go for it Rich!  Having an adult child to help is priceless!  None of my girls are the least bit interested in cars or working on them.  Might be because they grew up in the "car scene" and have may miles in the back seat of the 36........

I'm right there with you, Jim. It probably would have ended up being a winter-long project if my son wasn't here to help. He's only got 4 days left, so I'm hoping we can get the motor at least installed and bolted to the tranny, engine mounts, and starter installed. Everything else is just tedious but doable for me. It'll just be slow. I keep cans of "BOOST" handy....for me, not the car, lol.
Bill, Derrick is not really into the car scene. It's a necessary evil to him.

I'm lucky also, my son is a car guy and will help anytime I need him but haven't had any major work to do so far. I work 15 minutes and then I have to rest for 30  :005:

Had a few glitches that took some time..........broken bolt in the block, my old front sump oil pick-up tube flange that didn't match the new engine, almost forgetting the 1/8 spacer that goes between the block and tranny's bellhousing etc., but all has been taken care of. Yesterday we got the engine in and today we got it all bolted together, motor mount's stud nuts on, starter installed, torque converter bolted down, exhaust hooked up, and the rack and pinion almost reinstalled. We discovered late an apparent misalighnment on the rack, tomorrow we'll figure that out and that'll finish up the underside. That's all I was hoping to get done when Derrick was here, so we're in good shape.

Great progress Rich. You should be on the road again pretty soon :001:

Can't sell it now...gotta get your moneys worth back out of the labor and engine!  :003:  :burnout:  :006:

You be back driving in a week Rich!. great progress indeed!

Awesome efforts Rich ! Now go for the rest of it ! Fingers crossed !

Hugh, knowing this is getting off topic, but may still be worth 2 cents to some of our members, this is how I do the process of weld- extracting broken or frozen studs, bolts, screws. Works all the time. May be a bit work and time consuming.

(https://up.picr.de/46629577ra.jpg)

(https://up.picr.de/46629581pr.jpg)

(https://up.picr.de/46629583ur.jpg)

(https://up.picr.de/46629585bj.jpg)

Quote from: mustang6984 on 2023-11-06 17:14Never thought of that. Excellent idea. I'll keep that one in mind!  :006:

The one I had snapped off was a small metric bolt...about 12-28 sae size. I just used a centerdrill to get a hole started as close to the center as I could with a hand drill, then a 1/8 drill down through, followed by a #7 for 1/4-20 (I don't have metric drill/tap sets). took longer to gather the bits together than to do it.
I'm going to take 2 or 3 days away from it, maybe take a road trip up to Colorado after my son leaves.

Rich, of course drilling out , until you reach the threads will work just fine, as long as you can get there with a drill. There are so many ways to get it done.... Glad you got it out and will be able to get it running asap after your road trip break.

Thanks G...I like the idea...and will use it going forward.  :006:

Rich I have found when the frustration level tops off I just sit back and ponder my belly button.  Can't tell you how many times it took more than a week to resolve ( ponder ) a problem when building the Ranchero.  Yup, take a break, think, get revved up and hit it with new resolve!

Thanks, Bill, but not really a frustration break.......more of a "can relax for a bit now that the engine is in".
This time when I pulled the engine, I left the tranny in place. I was able to get to the top two bellhousing bolts by removing the intake manifold first. On my intake, the throttle body actually extends out over the back of the engine making those bolts inaccessible unless the intake is removed. To get that off, I had to bend the pipe that connects the EGR valve to the exhaust. I had it wrapped in heat shield, and didn't realize until last night that I actually broke it, so that repair is first on the list. Gotta go out and find some correct size tubing to do that, and get my MIG welder tank refilled.
BTW, It would have been nice to be able to just unbolt the EGR valve from the throttle body with that pipe left attached, but I couldn't get to the back bolt on the EGR's flange  Gonna put some thought into making it more accessible before I reinstall it.

I took a break and drove to Colorado yesterday. Beautiful drive up thru some mountain passes, but  too late in the season for a fall foliage show. Maybe just as well, as there was next to nothing for traffic on any of my chosen roads. I did find out later last evening, after paying for a motel room, my COPD has apparently progressed to a point where I can't tolerate the high altitude if exerting myself at all ("exerting" meaning in my case getting out of the car and walking 20 feet). At midnight, I decided I couldn't do it, and loaded my Subi back up for a 3 hour drive towards home to get to lower altitude where I could actually get a few hours sleep.
I guess all-in-all, a second bad road trip, except this time it was me, not the cars. Gettin' old sucks.
Anyway, I think I found cures for the two issues discussed in the previous post. I made an "extended bolt" for the EGR valve that should allow access with a wrench for removal while still on the intake manifold. Also, I found some flexible conduit that should do the trick of patching up the EGR pipe. I need to get the intake stuff cleaned up, new gaskets attached, and installed on engine so I can check out my "fixes" Pics will follow if they work.

Yup, getting old sucks and it aint for wimps......mean ol Mr. Arthur has invaded my hands, no longer have the old grip I used to have.  Makes holding a paint gun fun.....

Sorry to hear about the altitude thing.  I know your love of CO and being unable to enjoy it must be hard.  But, we gota do what we gota do.

I'm in the same boat Rich so I know how you feel. At 4,000 ft I'm really struggling.

At 4000, I'm ok. I was in several 10,000 locations, and where I tried to sleep, but couldn't, was 6350.
I should know within a few hours if I'm able to get the EGR valve on and off with the intake still on the engine.

Bill, PM sent.

OK.....now my frustration level is rising! Trying to get the lower end of the EGR's pipe attached, I rebroke it. The old pipe is just too fragile to withstand much bending. New ones are not available, and would still need mods to connect it to the Mustang exhaust manifolds's egr port in a different location than the oem Lincoln's..
With that said, I'm considering eliminating the egr valve, at least elinate it's function. I know we discussed this in years past, but I have no memory. Some of the egr elimination kits are pretty complicated, so I'm wondering what would happen if I just found a plug for the exhaust manifold and left the egr valve in place to suck in outside air instead of  the exhaust?? I do not want to have the computer reprogrammed even if the obd1 can be. I'm guessing how the engine runs would be not much different. I understand it may send codes, but any other problems?

Can a new pipe be made?

Yes, but it should have been done when the engine was out. I had the pipe wrapped in heat shield, so I didn't realize it was broken at that time. Would be very difficult to make even if I had room to work/shape.
This would be even more frustrating if it happened this past summer, missing all those roadtrips. I'm leaning towards doing as I posted above so I can get the rest of the engine wired and plumbed, and looking for a replacement down the road if it's a problem. Heck, right now, I don't even know for sure if I've got a good engine. I'm anxious to get her up and running.

Not being the least familiar with your engine, I ask this then:
I know doing it would be a major PITA...but if you remove the intakes, can you then access the needed space to do what needs to be done?
I ask, because ANY time you do anything to deviate from what an automotive computer expects...you ask for trouble

I'm not so sure about it being a problem if deleted. First, it's commonly done, and secondly, I've looked at at least 3 Lincolns that had the exhaust port capped off in the same way........almost like it was a Ford fix. Unfortunately, about 2 months ago I just sent off the engine that was sitting in my back yard for 3+ years.that I screwed up with an oil change fopar. I could have used that engine/intake as a "form" to make a new one. I'd still need to start with a new one and make changes to fit my needs. bending 1/2 ID pipe isn't easy, but the main issue would be each end has a 90* rim that seats inside the attaching nuts. Not a doable design, so the need for a new similar piece to start with.
So, yeah, it can be done, I've done it before, but the question is......is it all worth it??
There are guys here that will know, Bill and others, I suspect maybe are on the road going someplace for Thanksgiving.

Rich if the pipe was broken on the old engine it was probably just sucking air??? so your idea of the EGR sucking air might work.
There is a place in Texas that has tons of old OEM stock, I just can't recall the name right no, brain dead as usual :005:

Check with a plumber that has a pipe bender. They can bend thick pipe like bending a piece of copper wire.

I've decided not to worry about it until I found out whether or not it's a problem. I'll hang on to my old engine this time, and if I do decide to replace it down the road, I'll start with a new egr pipe assembly and modify it as needed. Lincoln EGR position combined with Mustang Cobra exhaust's egr pipe location means I'm not going to be able to use an unmodified unit. Problem is not so much the bending as the "flare" on each end. That flare (can't think of the right term), is not like a brake line flare, it's like a hat section, 90* from pipe and flat.

Not too much to report.........I found another issue that kinda put most everything concerning reassembly on hold until resolved. In my pile of parts on my workbench, I had the oil dipstick from the old engine. We had pulled the dipstick off the replacement engine, and my son had swapped the Cobra exhaust manifolds. I didn't realize, or had forgot from years past, that the oil dipstick fits on between the block and the exhaust manifold. SHEEEEEETTTTT!!!!! No way the manifold was coming off with the engine in the car. I checked to see if Lokar made a flexible dipstick like theirs that I have for my Transmission. They did, but for the same year 5.0. I figured the critical part was going to be where it fit into the block, and odds were that they'd be the same. They were not. After Jegs shipped me an altinator bracket for a small block chevy instead of the dipstick, it took almost another week to get the dipstick. It wouldn't work. Partly because of different diameters on the engine block end, but also because instead of Lokar, they sent me a JEGS version, which was, near as I can figure 6" shorter than the LOkar. Anyway, I decided to cut up my old dipstick and use some braided stainless tubing to make my own flexible dipstick. Fortunatly, the hydraulic hose shop in Amarillo had a short section of very unusual sized AN7 that worked perfect. Dipstick is in, albeit in a different location, and working just fine. I forgot to take a picture before I installed it.
Now I can go on to hooking up wires and plumbing that I held off on until I knew whether or not the engine had to be lifted out some.

Seems we all do the same dance at some point, one step forward and two back :003: Glad you were able to fix the issue and can move on now.

I'm getting close. Lots of small stuff/changes/fixes that seem to be taking a ton of time..........example.......the engine I just removed had 3 locations for water temp. sensors. I needed all 3. One for the computer, one for cooling fan control, one for temp. gauge. My replacement engine only has two. A call to Ron Francis to see if I could simply splice two together got a long technical explanation of why I couldn't. I finally figured out I could add a third threaded bung to coolant pipes that already have the two. I found an old coolant pipe in my stash, so I got a bung cut out of it and hopefully will be welding it up this morning. First, I've got to rearrange stuff in my garage so I can weld without burning the place down. Hope my welder still works after sitting for 5 years untouched. I did get the argon tank refilled this week.

You are probably a better elder then me. On thin material ( I'm assuming ) like tubing I usually braze it.

I got it welded, but my welder was fighting me (what doesn't anymore!?). probably needs a good cleaning and lube to get the wire feed running smoothly again. The weld wasn't pretty, but thank god for grinders. Got it cleaned and painted. I need to run a 3/8-NPT tap down into the bung to get the threads cleaned up...sensor was really tight, probably from all the welding heat. Nobody in town had a 3/8 NPT tap, I've got one coming in from O'Reilly's tomorrow.
I also welded up a cap for the exhaust manifold where the EGR pipe is no longer.
btw, Jim.thanks.....I've never been called a better elder before, lol.

Glad to hear you are making progress!  My shop work has been minimal and given we are heading to the "Frozen Tundra" Monday it will stay locked up for another two weeks.  In the mean time keep on keeping on.....

OOOPS, my elder typing  :003:

Delayed another few days to get some very tedious "upgrades" done while access is still a bit easier. I had previously covered the engine bay wires using the plastic split-type coverings. some of them were breaking up/falling apart, so I decided to replace them with the braided nylon type. My local O'Reillys had only the 3/8 size, but I picked up one box just to see if I liked it. I did, so I ordered 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, and 3/4 from ebay. Expensive, but less than half of the O'Reilly price.
Other than that, my to-do list is down to installing the EGR caps, attaching wires @ starter, and installing the radiator and all associated hoses. The battery should be ok, but I'm going to throw a charge on it today just in case.
 Hopefully, when she does crank up, none of the 3 or 4 things I need to check will be an issue.

I did get it fired up yesterday.... :003:  It only took about 3 seconds of cranking. I think the engine sounds great, but hard to tell for sure with a loud squealing noise coming from the front. Also, have 3 fuel injectors leaking, and at least one coolant leak.
Today, I'll remove the (new)serpentine belt and restart it. Hopefully, the squealing will go away and it'll just be a matter of eliminating possible bolted-on sources. The power steering pump. A/C compressor, alternator, and belt tensioner all came off my old engine. The water pump and crankshaft pully are what was on the "new" engine. The PS reservoir was filled, but I have not added anything to the A/C compressor.
Aside from that, I still need to work on getting my transmission cooling lines hooked up to something. I simply don't have the hand strength to push them onto the radiator connectors. For the start-up, I got anxious and just used a short section of ss tubing to loop the hoses together without going through the radiator.
LOL, trying to find the right-sized tubing to use, I thought about a telescoping magnetic pick-up tool, of which I had 3. I now have 2. My larger one got sacrificed/ cut apart for the right-sized tubing.........worked perfectly!. As for my transmission cooling lines, I may have to remove my cooling fan, which I installed attached to the radiator, for better access.

Took the fan belt off, and luckily the squealing went away, and I suspect it may be the new fanbelt itself. I didn't like the way it was made. after I fix a few fuel leaks, I'll put the old fan belt on, and hopefully no squealing.
The engine sounds awesome, so that's a relief, and it confirms that converting the newer OBD11 system engine to run on OBD1 is no problem. Also, taking the EGR pipe out of the equation is, at this point, not an issue either.
Still have lots to do before it's road-ready, but I can see the light.

Rich, were any of the og or new pulleys repainted or powder coated? that may cause squealing, and you may have to remove overspray paint. You can easily wash the new belt with dish solvent or even brake cleaner, it should not do any harm to the rubber and may remove the dirt or wax on new rubber surface, causing slippage. Great to know she will be back on the road soon.

No new paint on the pulleys, but thanks for the suggestion . This morning I'm removing my cooling fan (for tranny cooling hose access)and spending some time making changes so it will no longer be a major pita to get the faN on and off. I had it mounted with screws and locknuts, but it's a difficult reach to get both arms down there. I'm instead installing swedged threaded "nuts/fasteners" so I will no longer have to get to what the screw goes into. The electrical connector for the fan motor is almost impossible to separate, I ended up cutting wires to get it out when I pulled the engine. I'm going to use bullet connectors to reattach instead of butt connectors, so, once again, easier down the road.

I did get my transmission cooling lines attached, and my old fan belt put on, which totally eliminated all the squealing. The culprit was the new Gates fan belt I bought. IMHO, The grooves cut (?) in it were just too small for the belt to have enough mating surface.
Still got 8 things left to do including 2 newly discovered issues..........leaky exhaust @ manifold downpipe flanges and something draining battery....100% charge dropped to 75% overnight. Maybe a bad battery, It's a 4-post Optima only 3 years old, but no issues whatsoever before being sidelined for 2 months.

      I'm makin' a list
      I'm checking it twice
      Tomorrow I'll see
      If it's drivin' nice!


OK, that was bad

I've heard worse. Got my fingers crossed. Sorry I'm not closer to help. Have fun!

Well, yesterday didn't go well. I got everything cleaned up, finished up, off the jackstands and I thought ready to roll. But it didn't :005: The tranny is not engaging. I've got to get it back up on jackstands and checked out. I'm pretty sure I know the issue, and it might even solve the "why is my battery being slowly drained" question.

Just after we pulled the engine, the tranny slipped off a small floor jack we were supporting it on. It was still bolted to the cross member, so it didn't go far, but it did pull off the Lokar dipstick I had attached at the firewall. Made a hell of a mess with trans. fluid all over. Got it back up on the jack, cleaned up the mess, and never thought twice about it until yesterday when it wouldn't engage. I'm sure it probably pulled off/ damaged? the shift cable and/or wires to a number of things. Probably won't get back to it til after xmas. I doubt Santa is bringing me a lift for Christmas.

OK.I need some help. I checked the cable and wires and everything looks fine. I verified the shifter is functioning as it should. The car still won't move. We lost a lot of fluid when the trans. slipped off the supporting jack, but my dipstick still reads full! How can that be? I've texted my son to make sure he didn't add fluid that I was unaware of. I'm thinking of pulling the trans. pan to see if anything jogged loose......I assume the trans has a pickup tube similar to engines.
Any other ideas?

AOD/4R70 has screen bolted to the bottom of the valve body.  The screen and valve body are submerged in fluid.  No pickup tube to fall off.  If the fluid level is correct and nothing happens in any gear, check line pressure with a gauge screwed into the pressure port (pipe threads)...port is between the gear selection shaft and the bellhousing, just above the pan rail.

Thanks for that info, Gary. "if the fluid level is correct".......that's the issue I'm trying to figure out. When the trans fell off the jack, pulling out the dipstick tube, we had a 3-foot puddle of fluid to clean up. I'm trying to wrap my head around how the reinstalled dipstick is reading over-full.!?? No fluid has been added since the incident, so my first guess is it very low on fluid, understandably causing the tranny to not engage. So, common sense is telling me the fluid is too low, but what I'm looking at is saying it isn't bawl  bawl  bawl  bawl

It is a Lokar dipstick, btw, installed 4 years ago, no issues. It's pushed into the tranny case, screwed at the top to the firewall. In my way of thinking, when it got pulled out of the tranny, if anything the braided stainless tube would have been stretched if anything, causing the dipstick to not extend into the pan as far as it did, (not further).

AOD/4R70 fluid level (as with many automatics) should be at or slightly above the pan rail...when running.  Without the engine running, fluid will overflow out the dipstick hole if the dipstick tube is removed.

I'm looking to see if any friends/O'Reilly's tool loan has a line pressure gauge I can use. I did locate the line pressure port and watched a video on the procedure. I have the Mark Viii service manual, which should give the chart for pressure requirements. The check would be so much easier with a lift.
I got thinking, it's possible I may have the dipstick installed deeper than I had it before, that would explain why it still reads full, also what you explained about the levels actually being over the plane of the dipstick hole. I just added a quart of fluid because I know I lost at least that much. After lunch, I'll see if it made a difference.

Talking to my transmission guy, he's doubtful anything got "damaged". He confirmed what I had remembered from 8 years ago that the filter is a push-on type. He suspects the filter dropped off, thus preventing the pump from picking up fluid. He also told me I couldn't really damage anything by overfilling, and I actually got 4 quarts put in, but still didn't change anything. Next thing is to drop the pan and hopefully I'll find the filter sitting in the pan. Simple fix, time for a filter change anyway. If not, I'll probably get it towed to the transmission shop when he can squeeze me in.

Hey...at least it'll be ready to go for a drive when spring hits! Hopefully nothing more than an attitude adjustment for the filter!   :041:  :burnout:

Well the fight goes on.....it just may be Spring before it's ready.
I decided, as mentioned, to drop the pan to check the mounting of the filter. Mainly because it's the only thing left that I can do myself to fix the issue. Like everything else, not as easy as I thought. The tranny crossmembr is over the back flange of the pan, so I can't get to those bolts without removing the cross-member. I started working on that project this afternoon. I'll jack up the tranny with a floor jack and 2x4 under the pan, then support the tail end of the tranny on a jackstand while I remove the cross-member and pan.
Non of this stuff is real hard for a younger healthy man!!

The pressure check that Gary suggested I do.....well, I've got to make sure the filter/pickup is in place, and if it in fact is, there's nothing the pressure test would tell me that I can fix myself. Replacing the pump would mean pulling the engine back out, as there's no way the tranny is coming out in my garage.

I ran into the same thing with the crossmember.  I modified the original crossmember and had the AOD bolted in.  The first time I removed the pan and fought the lack of access to the rear pan bolts, the crossmember was tossed.  I had a '64 donor car out back and snagged the crossmember.  The '64 member was modified to fit the '57.  No more pan access issues!

That worked out well. Now, if I only had one of those yellow thingies in your first pic, lol.

I finally got the crossmember down, at least enough to drop it. I've got one stubborn bolt 1/2 way outI may have to cut off. At least I was able to get the pan off and to my delight, the filter/pickup was in fact lying on the bottom of the pan. I figure it's about a 97% chance that'll fix the problem when I get it back together. There is still a possibility of course of a problem with the pump, but I don't think so. Gonna repaint the crossmember and clean up a bit under there while it's apart.
I wonder why they don't put draincocks on transmisions, and why Ford does not use at least one screw to secure the filter in place.

There used to be drain cocks on the tranny.
About the filter...excellent question...one would think...well...if they thought...we'd not be having this discussion.

RE: the stuck bolt...soak that puppy with some PB Blaster or even a squirt of 3-1 and see if that convinces it to come to daddy!   :006:

It's gotten lots of PB. When I installed it originally, I put new grade 8 bolts, that's the only reason it hasn't broken off. Got the new filter and gasket tonight. Tomorrow, I'll clean things up and start putting it back together.

Rich, do you possibly have a deep pan?  The grommet seals the filter to the valve body but the pan typically prevents the filter from dropping down similar to what GM used.  A deep pan could allow the stock filter to drop down.

Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2023-12-30 23:06It's gotten lots of PB. When I installed it originally, I put new grade 8 bolts, that's the only reason it hasn't broken off. Got the new filter and gasket tonight. Tomorrow, I'll clean things up and start putting it back together.

Try using black brake caliper grease on the thread when you put them back in. The bolts won't back out, but should you ever need to remove them again (or any one else does) they will come out much smoother and with no damage to the male or female threading.

The pan is stock. I also would have thought the pan would prevent that from happening, but the filter being off was what my transmission guy suspected, so I guess it can happen even with a stock setup. Seems strange though....think of all the jarring potholes and bumps a car goes over in its lifetime. I thought about attaching a sponge-like small pad on the bottom of the filter, but don't want anything in there that might disintegrate/break down over the years.
Good idea with the caliper grease, somewhere I've got some Loctite anti-seize I was going to use after I pick up some new bolts and run a tap thru the holes.

The old C4 and C6 automatic transmission did use multiple bolts to attach the screen/filter to the valve body, but I guess the bean counters at the factory figured out that if they could eliminate a couple of bolts per vehicle, times X amount of vehicles per year, even at 2 cents per bolt, they would save enough money to give the executives a big bonus!

Sadly...there may be slme truth in that. Miss the times when CAR GUYS built cars instead of accountants and draftsmen.

Did a little rough measuring before I put the new filter back on. The pan is about 2 7/16 deep, the bottom of the installed filter is about 2 3/16 into the pan, so 1/4" gap. The filter has a rubber seal/ring very close to the top of the tube.
I discovered the old seal was still in the transmission, so I suspect what happened was the filter dropped down enough to separate it from that seal, but not all the way off until I dropped the pan, but enough for it to loose it's suction.
So, with that said, my estimate of 97% probability of fixing the issue is down to about 75%. It's gonna be a day or two before I know.

Naturally being of a positive nature...I am gonna stick with the 97% ranking!  :003:

this is just very random info, but fwiw, the Fordomatic has a neat spring clip to keep the filter up and also a little tab spot welded in the pan to prevent the spring clip coming off. real nice old timey engineering.57cs s1308.jpg

57cs s1314.jpg57cs s1316.jpg

Thanks for the pics...........that spring clip is a nice feature. Reading the Mark VIII manual, it says to check the tranny for removing the grommet/seal from the hole after removing the filter....so I guess that's a normal thing. Kinda like checking the engine block for an oil filter seal before installing a new filter.
I'm not going to be able to pick up new cross-member bolts today, obviously, Happy new years guys!

Not too much luck yesterday getting the cross-member back on. Can't see where studs, etc are in relation to holes in cross-member. The transmission is jacked up as far as it will go, so trying to get that really-tight-fitting cross-member back on with the holes right under the studs! URG! This is a bitch with just the car raised a little, and having to jocky around between jack stands and floor jacks.
Going to try a different approach today, may go to Harbor Freight and pick up a cheap ($90) inspection camera.

   Don't forget to leave a magnet in the bottom of the pan.

Randy, There is a factory-installed magnet already there.
Yesterday, I finally got the transmission mount's studs through the cross-member holes. That was what was stopping the alignment of the crossmember-to-frame mounting. In a few hours, my garage should be warmed up enough to get back to work. I'm sure with a few hours work, I'll know if my car actually moves, or if it's on to plan B. If it is in fact plan B, It'll be so much work getting that tranny out, more than likely I'll opt for a rebuilt unit to replace it............which brings me to my next questions. Jegs has a 4R70W rebuilt tranny on sale for 2k. Has anybody any experience, or heard things, with a Jegs unit? Also, what they have is a 4R70W tranny for a '98 F150 "small block". Are all 4R70W transmission cases the same.length, bellhousing bolt pattern? Would the gearing ratio be different?

I think rather than buy another possible batch of installment issues and such, you'd just have what you've got rebuilt.
But again...I am the optimist here...it's gonna work.

AOD and 4R70 main cases are the same length.  However, there are two tail housing and shaft lengths.  Lincolns and 150s usually had long tail but not an absolute...you know...it's a Ford thing.  There is only about an inch difference...10"+/- and 11"+/-.  I used the long one with the long rear yoke so the Crown Vic/Grand Marquis PI aluminum drive shaft would work.  HD drive shaft with 1350 U-joints and correct yoke for cheap.

All that struggling for the past 3 or 4 days was of no use. Got it all back together, and still won't move. sheeeeeeet!!
Going to talk to some transmission shops, see what I'm in for. A friend suggested a shop he uses for his street rods.
I need to pull the fluid return line and check for pressure while the engine is running. That will tell me if it's the pump.
 Gonna be months in all likelihood, went thru most of my available $ getting the engine replaced.
Guess I'm not being a good role-model for driving the heck out of them.

Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2024-01-03 15:42Guess I'm not being a good role-model for driving the heck out of them.

Rich, are you 100% SURE that it didn't pull or disturb the throttle cable, when it accidentally dropped?
AOD is known to require 100% correct throttle valve adjustment, or it won't work or destroy itself. Gary, please correct me if I am wrong.

Anymore, I'm not 100% sure of anything. My throttle cable does not have a connection to the 4R70W transmission (not an AOD). It goes only to the throttle body and was undisturbed during the engine replacement other than a simple disconnect at the throttle body. I've read about TV cable adjustment on other threads/forums, don't even know what that is actually. The cable I was concerned about is the shift "linkage"....it's cable, not hard linkage. I'm pretty sure that shift cable is working. The car will not start if in gear, and I can hear slight differences in the engine when I shift from in-gear to neutral.
LOL, yeah I keep hoping I'm overlooking something simple/obvious.

Have an appointment with the transmission shop my friend uses for his street rods. He'll check for any overlooked issues and pressure test for a bad pump. If it's only a bad pump, $600 will take care of it. Appointment is on the 29th. :002:

rich. is it possible that the torque converter slipped/fell forward when the trans dropped? have had that happen a couple of times myself. did you have any trouble bolting the engine up? also, possibly wrong flexplate? (pulling converter forward?)  also, thanks to all on the window channel suggestions. used 3M 5200 marine sealant to glue clips to channel.probably have to use dynamite to remove them!!!

The torque converter was out when the trans slipped off the jack.  I believe I had it installed correctly. I think when it happened was when we had pretty easily got the engine in and positioned to the tranny (no bolts in yet)but...... At that point, I realized we had forgotten the 1/8 alum. horseshoe-shaped spacer, so we pulled the engine back a few inches so we could snake it in there. No problem there, but the second time positioning the engine didn't go easily. Took a lot of coaxing to get it in........I think that's when the converter slipped back out, maybe off the final spline.? Don't know for sure, just a guess. I'm pretty sure the flexplate on the replacement engine is the same, but I'll check the old engine and give the transmission guy a measurement he can use to verify that they are the same (or not).
They should be the same, but it's a '97 engine replacing a '95. Thanks for the flexplate thought........it'll be good to verify they are the same........something I should have done before installing. You know how thing go when you rush....you just get further behind.

I seem to remember Garys posts about the different shim (horseshoe) plates and how it would affect flex plate /starter/converter offset and disturbing the pump seal or such. If you used the wrong combination.
I believe Gary was talking about AODs and a mishap he had in the tech section. No idea if this would affect 4R70W or not. You will find out soon....
keeping my fingers crossed it is just a random problem that can be easily repaired.

The gods are picking strange ways to work against me, lol! Last night on local internet news was a story about a fire at a local business on the south end of town. It was the transmission shop I had/have an appointment at.

Rich........I think the Gods were working with you, as your car was not in that shop when the fire started.
John

Quote from: KYBlueOval on 2024-01-09 09:30Rich........I think the Gods were working with you, as your car was not in that shop when the fire started.
John

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
              :003:

Quote from: KYBlueOval on 2024-01-09 09:30Rich........I think the Gods were working with you, as your car was not in that shop when the fire started.
John

Haha, well, that's one way to look at it.
Got some info....they lost a good part of their shop, and 6 vehicles. Nobody hurt, it was closed at the time, so that's the good part

I checked the flexplate numbers for '95 vs '97, and they are the same part number. There is a spacer behind the flexplate that could make a difference, so I measured the position of the '95 flexplate to the bell housing/engine block mounting surface so that when the transmission is pulled, he can check that dimension to verify it's the same on the '97 engine. I'll keep the old engine around until that's done.
I'm going to have some stuff to work on after I can roadtest the car. I had to move one of 3 coolant temperature sensors to a different location that apparently it doesn't like. I let the car run for 20 minutes yesterday, and according to my temp. gage, it got to 240*, which I know it wasn't because my cooling fan never came on. It', controlled by one of the other sensors. Also, the coolant never boiled over, just a little steam when I removed the cap to check. It's also possible I didn't "burp" the system well enough when I refilled the coolant.
Edit:........I forgot to mention that the torque converter for both '95 and '97 are the same part number.

I still haven't got a date from either transmission shops I was talking to. The one that had the fire has penciled me in for the 12th, but that's only if all goes well with getting their shop back working. Right now, they still don't have power, but scheduled for Wednesday. 

Hurry up and wait... :-\

I find out this afternoon if my regular transmission shop is still good to take my car in Monday. Man, I'm getting anxious!

Been thinking about how you were doing and what was going on! AWESOME

He's a real busy shop (all the good ones are!), I stopped by this afternoon, and he hemmed and hawd for a while, then said, bad time, but it's probably always going to be, so let's get it in for Monday as planned. Now, the weatherman is forcasting a snowstorm starting Sunday, so we'll just have to wait and see. I not only don't want my car on a trailer on icy roads, but don't want to put my friend with the trailer thru that either.

That snow is not expected until late afternoon. Get in there before noon you'll be fine. and the potential snow...is not really likely...temp will only be down as low as 30 degrees or so...high's for the day in the 40's. You'll be fine. Take it in.

Did you get the cruiser over to the shop?

We got 4 inches of heavy wet snow, and it was 27* yesterday morning, my driveway in front of the garage where we would have been loading was heavy slush by afternoon. So, no, we're doing it tomorrow at 10am. The shop it is going to was happy to hear that because his lot was a total mess as well. I didn't need my friend crawling around in all that cold slush. Lol, I took my Subaru out for a 120 mile drive instead...my 3rd 100+ mile "Sunday drive" in the last week.

Weird...when I looked at your long term forecast a week ago it said nothing about precipitation until late afternoon. Weather!
Course...I saw nothing about waking up to an inch of snow yesterday either...but I did. I give up! LOL!!!

Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2024-02-13 08:19We got 4 inches of heavy wet snow, and it was 27* yesterday morning ...

4" of snow? I wish. We've had more than twice the normal season to date amount of snow. First, back in November we got about three feet of snow overnight. That caused a 25.5 hour power outage my area here on the lower mountainside while the outside temp was 32 degrees. We kept getting more snow & later went into a long cold spell with temps well below zero. Quite a few flat roofs on large commercial buildings have caved in & totally destroyed those buildings. Now a big 'warm' chinook wind has been sweeping down the mountain side for a few days which caused a little decrease in the snow pack. (Now I can see all of the left side headlights.) That wind also caused two shorter power outages within the last two days. This snow ain't goin' away for months. Mid to late April if we're lucky.
Sorry for the off-topic venting, Rich. Hope you get your '57 back on the road soon.

LOL, I figured my comment about 4" of snow would get a rise out of you., but note I did say I went on a 100+ mile "Sunday drive" that day.
I got a call from the transmission shop this morning. My torue converter needs to be replaced, and he's got one being delivered this afternoon, so a shot at getting the car back tonight, if not, in the morning.

Good news! Wonder how it went bad?  >:(  :sad2:

Easy to damage when installing an engine....both the converter and pump. I had the converter positioned correctly when we pushed the engine in the first time..went together with no trouble at all except wrestling the weight. I'm sure it happened when I realized we forgot the spacer and had to pull the engine back off the bellhousing a few inches to get the spacer in. We probably dislodged the converter at that time. I should have known enough to stop and reset when we had so much trouble getting it back together.
Well, I did get to drive the car yesterday about 100 feet, only with 4 manpower instead of 300 horsepower.

Ah...I see. That would be one of the reasons why I always (against some people's advice) prefer to pull the whole package, and reassemble and reinstall the whole package...less chances to mess something up. and if I can possibly mess something up...well...let's just say that "Murphy" long ago decided to be my best friend.
Bet you prefer the 300 vs. the 4 horse power propulsion! LOL!!!

The whole package is what I would have done if I elected to remove all of the front sheet metal. I may be wrong, but I don't think a home-garage-type engine puller is going to give enough height to pull the engine with the tranny attached. I think it would take high ceiling - overhead crane type hoist.
My very first install of the 4.6/4R70W was with no sheet metal on the front. easy-peasy, but when you consider all the wiring , A/C plumbing, etc.  that is attached to or weaving thru all of that sheet metal, you don't want to remove it.
I have another issue to address when I get it back. I apparently have a leak / hole from a broken weld on my oil pan. I had modified the oil pan for more cross-member clearance. It was good for 74k miles, we must have damaged that area as well when we installed the engine. It wasn't leaking just sitting there, so probably because the oil level had dropped low enough...until the engine was running. It left a puddle on Marty's trailer, and I later saw a larger one on my garage floor. I went back to the transmission shop to have them check for a rear main seal leak, (now would be the time to fix), but he raised the lift up so we could have a look, and it appears to be coming from that area I had modified/welded. The oil pan is right up against the cross-member there, so when I get it back, I'm going to move the engine/tranny forward about 1/4" where it should be. I'll probably end up raising the engine to get the oil pan off for repair.
I'm thinking the reason for it being up against the crossmember instead of forward that 1/4", may be the fact that the original '95 engine I had used a block that was cast in Italy. The later '97 block was cast in the USA, so possibly a slight difference there?

Just got a call from the trans. shop. They got the car back together, but it's a no go. 1st and 2nd only, and slipping in reverse. Apparently running the engine with the fluid not pumping caused the damage. I'll get it back mid-week with a rebuilt transmission. Lesson learned the hard way.

Rich, when pulling & installing engines I've always separated them from the trans. However I have very often seen this done with both units still bolted together on TV shows like Roadkill, Roadkill Garage, Garage Squad, etc with the typical cherry-picker garage-type engine hoist. At first I was a bit surprised to see them pull both at once but it did take more than one person to do it.
Someone usually has to get up behind the engine & stand on the trans in order to tilt the whole works until it clears the trans housing & firewall. I've hardly ever had or needed a helper when pulling & installing the engine separate from the trans
Aside from some other reasons all your transmissions problems just reinforces my long standing hate of automatic transmissions. I can see why drag racers use them but in a road car I really hate the damn things.

My issues are all on me....wrong decisions.......and a bunch of them, like dominos.
I don't have it back from the transmission shop. It got put in the back storage garage until he makes time for it again.

  It's the only way I've ever installed the 460 in my 57 is with the trans attached. Seeing as it's only me doing the work I couldn't imagine trying to lineup a c6 and fiddle around with the flex plate studs......forget that. The angle has to be quite steep and you usually leave a few quarts of atf on the floor, the rad support is biggest obstacle, some scrapes on the trans tunnel but other than that it's no big deal. My old garage only had 8 foot ceilings and height was never a problem.

Quote from: rmk57 on 2024-02-25 10:16It's the only way I've ever installed the 460 in my 57 is with the trans attached. Seeing as it's only me doing the work I couldn't imagine trying to lineup a c6 and fiddle around with the flex plate studs......forget that. The angle has to be quite steep and you usually leave a few quarts of atf on the floor, the rad support is biggest obstacle, some scrapes on the trans tunnel but other than that it's no big deal. My old garage only had 8 foot ceilings and height was never a problem.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                  :003:

If I'm pulling from a donor car, I leave everything attached.  But most of the time, I will split but I take the transmission out first.  The Custom and the Raunch Wagon are both heavily modified.  The 460 doesn't want to clear the core support and the R&P steering.  The Custom engine bay is finished and the 460 is a handful even without the transmission attached.  One of the advantages of taking the engine alone is that I pull over the fender and leave the hood installed.  I'm not working on the floor...pulling the transmission is no big whoop with a hoist.  It is critical when leaving the transmission in the vehicle to use alignment pins to align the bell housing.  I made up a little strap/bracket to slip between the flex plate and the torque convertor to keep the convertor in place. 
PS...I just looked at some old pictures and I realized both engines have road race oil pans.  The pans are wider than the lower control arm rear bushings so the engine cannot go straight up...it must go forward and then up.

Quote from: rmk57 on 2024-02-25 10:16...with the trans attached... couldn't imagine trying to lineup a c6 and fiddle around with the flex plate studs ...

Out of all the many engines I've swapped in & out I can only recall doing it with 3 cars that had automatic transmissions & never did them with the trans attached. Maybe I just got lucky but I never had any problems getting things lined up & bolted together. Never dumped trans fluid all over the floor either. What a mess that must be! Doing this with the engine & trans attached always sounded to me like doing it the hard way.

I picked up my car yesterday morning. We had a really bad day for wind yesterday, so just came straight home and parked her in my garage. I don't like bad wind on an open Texas highway, so wouldn't try putting it thru the paces. It's supposed to be windy again today, so maybe have to wait until tomorrow. I'm still going to have to fix the oil pan pinhole/crack (?) that is leaking, but my tranny shop did push the engine forward about 1/4+ as I had asked, so I can get a better look at the leak area.

Man, I'm either getting too old, or just too lazy, lol. I've run my car maybe 20 miles or so, and very happy with engine and rebuilt transmission. Just smooth as silk. I don't want to chance running it too much til I can get the oil pan hole/leak fixed. I decided just to have a shop pull the oil pan for me. He's going to pull it Friday, and call me so I'll have the weekend to reweld the pan back up and have it ready for him to reinstall Monday.

With age comes wisdom. You're getting wiser! (glass is 1/2 full!)  :003:

good choice to have back breaking jobs done by pro shops, Rich. Great to hear your 57 is back up and running again ! Now we want to see further pics of your trips !

G! Was wondering where you had been. Thought maybe some woman with lots of money had kidnapped you and run off with you to the French Riviera!  :003:

I did get it back this afternoon. Driving home seemed fine, so I took it out for a short run got about 10 miles from home and started running really crappy. Wasn't sure it was going to make it, and honestly don't have a clue what's up. Tonight I'm walking away from it, tomorrow, I'll check loose wires, run an engine code list, ect.

I got to thinking, this afternoon, the car was running not unlike it did when I ended up losing the engine back in October. So, maybe I fixed all the resultant broken stuff except what caused the issue to begin with........hmmmm. Maybe a bad ignition control module or CPU. I'll have to do some research.

That would be some crazy, crazy ****....bad luck. But not impossible. Lean mixture, predetonation or retarded spark certainly can damage valve seats, overheat or crack things.... never stop getting amazed by what mechanical or electrical failures can and will actually occur on cars !

Hugh, sorry for being absent but was very busy lately (no French women involved...). I will soon start preparing the 57CS for spring and will post in my build thread.

I was thinking more along the line of timing issues, which could lead to the valve problem.

Quote from: djfordmanjack on 2024-03-12 06:25Hugh, sorry for being absent but was very busy lately (no French women involved...). I will soon start preparing the 57CS for spring and will post in my build thread.

 :006:

the circus continues. The engine is running great when the car is in park/neutral. Much quicker response to hitting the throttle than I've previously ever had before. Was going to drive it about the neighborhood this morning to warm it up for some engine code readings. It immediately stalls when I put it in reverse. Not so when I put it in drive. My transmission guy and I are trying to figure out if it is in fact maybe a tranny problem.
I also found out today the shop that pulled my oil pan screwed up at least two things getting it back together. I wanted to check the oil, but the handle pulled out of the tube with no cable/dipstick attached! The braided cable is right at the top of the tube, so I was able to get a good grip on it with needle nose pliers. It wasn't budging, which is telling me they left the dipstick in when they pulled the pan, and got the end of it wedged between the block and the pan when reinstalling. Also, the throttle body rubber gasket is part way off the throttle body.  Like I said, the circus continues.

So...was that YOU I heard painting the skies to the west of me BLUE earlier today? LOL!!!

The main issues have been resolved. I swapped the engine control module for a spare one I had, but no change. When I was reconnecting the battery cables after swapping out the CPUs, I had some big time sparking at the battery post and also lower in the engine compartment. Turns out the main positive battery cable to the starter and alternator was rubbing against the power steering pulley, and shorted out. I suspect that burnt out the CPU, because it now runs fine even after an hour's road testing. It also goes into reverse with no issues. My transmission guy will be surprised, but happy I'm sure, that it wasn't a transmission issue. Next up is an alignment before I put too many miles on it. I'm pretty sure it was another issue caused by the shop I had used to drop the oil pan......I know I checked the cables for exactly that issue and tied them to some bracketry.

EXCELLENT find! Nothing like having an issue point it's self out! NOW...time to get it out on the road and drive again! Summer is coming!  :burnout:

Rich, didn't check the whole thread back, but wasn't there a problem with belt slipping squealing or such ?
Maybe the power cable rubbing also had its fair share in the process....great the mystery is solved, bad thing about the dip stick....when it rains it really pours....

It is always the little things that bite us in the.... The devil is in the details. Glad all is resolved!

The belt squealing was a quick fix.........just a bad brand new  Gates belt. Had nothing to do with the battery cable  issue. As mentioned, I had the cable zip-tied back away from the pulleys, and I figure the shop that did the oil pan must have cut the ties and never redid them.
Not everything is resolved yet, Lynn, but at least the roadblock to getting the rest ironed out is gone. I just hope I don't have to wait 2 weeks to get my car into the alignment shop.

Got the car's A/C replenished, and the front end aligned. It feels soooooo much better. I took it out and put 160 miles on it. The engine feels/sounds really good. The steering wheel is not clocked right though, so it has to go back to the alignment shop.  lol, nothing is easy peasy. When I picked the car up,they told me he had a heck of a time getting the steering wheel to set right, but "finally got it".......not!! I'm not sure what has changed, the car has been aligned at least 6-8 times over the years and steering wheel clocking has never been a problem. He told me everytime he tried to make a small adjustment, it moved too much. Maybe he'll figure it out when it goes back in.
I did check, I thought I remembered the steering wheel being splined, but it is double D, so no easy fix there.

It is really important not to clock the steering wheel on vehicles with steering boxes.  The gears have a high spot to tighten the box at center.  These helps reduce the driver having to saw the steering wheel to go straight down the road.  On some vehicles, turn signal cancel timing could also be affected. Since your car has R&P, it has no high spot so clocking could be an option.  Of course there are always exceptions to the rule...many of the solid axles and Twin I Beam Ford pickups and vans.  Just a thought, did you recently retorque the R&P to tie rod adapter?

When we swapped out engines, If I remember correctly, the rack assembly was dropped down with the tie rods still attached. My son did all of the underneath stuff.

The car had been running well, but I had been having the feeling it was running in "backup mode"....a bit sluggish at times, shifting points, etc, etc...... The computer I had replaced the original with had been sitting on a shelf for 15 years or so, and wasn't real sure about it. I did find another on eBay, and got it swapped out on Sunday. Just a few short trips and it made a big difference!! Definetly not running in back up mode any longer. Put 100 miles on it Sunday and Monday.  :003: