Recently rebuilt my 4 spd. Toploader. I just got around to installing a new speedometer cable. Speedo was working before rebuild but the cable housing was kinked and the speedometer was a little bouncy. Now I can't get the speedometer to work. I pulled the cable from the speedo end and drove around the block to check if the cable was turning...it was. I cut the old cable and connected it to the back of the speedometer and turned the other end with a drill and the speedometer worked. I pulled the transmission end and reinstalled the new cable at the speedometer end first, spun the new cable with the drill before putting on the gear on and the speedometer worked... checked the gear on the cable end reinstalled it. Everything seems good. Speedometer still does not work????
Lynn, when you drove it around with the cable connected did you notice if the odometer was changing?
No I didn't, good point. I will check and see (I doubt it will).
I remember one time having a mismatch between the drive and driven gears, speedo didn't work and odometer went backwards :005:
My odometer runs backwards too.
But my speedometer works correctly and is in fact quite accurate. I don't have a clue what to do about fixing the odometer.
The more I drive it, the more the miles just roll off. Like a time machine. I have a spare speedometer here on my desk. I stare at it often and cannot see anyway I could make the speedometer go forward and the odometer run backwards if my life depended upon it. Can't see anyway to install a gear or worm-drive backward. Just one of life's 1957 Ford mysteries I guess.
I have given up and moved on. Transmission is a C-6 by the way if anyone has any ideas.
Thanks.
Dan.
On toploaders there are different tailshafts for different cars most have the speedometer drive off the right side instead of the left side like '57's. There are right and left hand driven gears. I am supposed to have the correct gear and it worked before the I rebuilt the tranny. I am hoping there is nothing wrong on that end, but I could pull the tailshaft if I needed too. I did think the drive gear (black) on the output shaft was a little looser than I thought it should have been.
If the C-6 speedo drive is on the right side and you are using a left hand gear (or vice versa), I am thinking the cable will spin in the wrong direction from the original?
Lynn, when you tested with the cable disconnected at the speedo was it turning clockwise?
Not related to your problem and I can't remember which car I put a toploader in now but it did come off the passenger side and I can't remember if I had to change the drive or driven gear to make it work correctly, I also think I had to change to a longer cable from a Galaxie.
I think it was turning clockwise. The Galaxie toploaders speedo drive is on the left, same as a stock '57. I got a longer cable....84"? I am gonna start over again, I have no drill now...long story.
Strange, you would think with that trans it would work without issues. I'm dealing with a minor speedo issue too, I'm just don't want to pull the cluster again :003: Mine sticks from 0-20 mph unless I hit the dash and then it pops loose, from 20-90 it runs smooth as glass..
You mentioned that you thought the drive gear was a little loose on the shaft. When you installed it on the shaft, is it possible that the little ball that acts as a key for the gear fell out, and now the drive gear is just spinning on the shaft? Stick your finger in the hole in the trans and see if you can spin the gear on the shaft. John
I was pretty careful with the little ball, but you never know. I will try that, in my mind I "proofed" that end but I obviously have overlooked something. I am leaning to a sticky speedo, if the odo is turning that is answer. It worked with the drill but that is kinda a "shock" compared to driving around the block.
Did you find the problem?
Not yet. I am in a Thanksgiving hold.... I may check today and see if the odometer is turning since we are looking at much needed rain for the next couple of days.
OK, I'm in the same boat, much needed rain yesterday, really not enough to do much good and more later today. I need to pull the cluster and take the speedo apart to see why it's sticking..
Well the odometer wasn't turning...but I believe I have discovered my problem. When I originally put the toploader in the car I ordered a left hand speedometer driven gear when I actually needed a right hand one. Apparantly it somehow worked but not correctly, that is why the driving gear in the transmission was loose and worn. I ordered a right hand driven gear and I will change the drive gear on the tailshaft. I am fairly sure that is what the issue has been all along.
Not sure if its the same thing, but years ago, I owned a 1970 Mustang Mach 1, with a 428 Cobra Jet and 4 speed toploader, and when I swapped out the factory 3.50 rearend gears, for 4.30s, which were a factory option, I also ordered the correct speedo gear from my local Ford dealer for use with the 4.30s. However, when I took it for a test drive, the speedo didn`t work. But it DID work, when I was driving in reverse! At the time I was unaware that the "Drag Pack"Mustangs, that were equipped with either the 3.91 or 4.30 optional axle ratios came with a gear reduction unit that was attatched to the transmission tailhousing, and between the trans speedo gear, and the speedo gear on the cable. Because of that, the gears were cut on the opposite angle, thus my speedo cable was turning in the wrong direction. Does your speedo work if you are backing the car up?
I did check in reverse...nothing. The determining factor in my case is the drive gear on the output shaft of the transmission. Toploaders can have the speedometer driven from the left (drivers side) side of the transmission for cars like the Galaxies, early Fairlanes, and Sunbeams or the right hand side like Mustangs, Torinos, and late model Fairlanes. My transmission is out of a Mustang (RH). The drive gear inside the transmission is different for right or left speedo outputs. The driven gears must match the drive gear so there are right and left driven gears too. I bought a left hand driven gear a couple of years for a toploader not knowing all the details. I am surprised It could be installed at all....probably "fit" because the gears are plastic. My speedometer bounced at slow speeds and I lubed the cable to no avail, unmatched gears the problem I now suspect. Drive gears for left hand speedo output toploaders are not readily available but driven gears are. I did learn a couple of other things as well. Speedometers are designed to register 60 mph at 1000 cable rpm. The number of teeth on the driven gear can be calculated if you know the number of teeth on the drive gear, in my case 6 teeth (pink drive gear):
Engine RPM @ 60mph
Number of Driven Gear Teeth = ___________________ X Number of Drive Gear Teeth
1000
17 = 2806/1000 X 6
So I bought a 17 tooth right hand speedometer gear. :003:
I know what you are going through, same problem I ran into when I swapped the three speed for a top loader in my 66 Mustang. I don't remember what other car I had that required changing the left hand drive gear for a right or the other way around :003: , I still have one of each I kept for the future and that was probably 30 years ago.
I have that issue solved...just ordered a GPS speedometer. Just wire power to it, plug in the gps receiver, and go. No cables, no pulse generator signals, gearing and tire sizes don't matter. Much faster response time than the mph indicator on a regular GPS. Looks no different than a standard round speedometer. :burnout:
The obvious downside...it ain't gonna fit a stock '57 dash.
That sounds interesting Rich. Where are you going to mount it and how about a picture of it when you get it?
I'll try to post a pic, but it's a png file...not sure if most can open it up...let me know. I've got a PhotoShop program that opens them.
Edit....windows photo gallery opens it.
It'll just be replacing the one that's already there that I can't get to work. Some time next year I'll replace the rest of them so they match.
http://www.speedhut.com/about-speedometers.html
American made, design your own...pretty cool. Expensive but on sale this month for 15% off. Mine is similar to the pic I posted, not exact. This was someone else's design. I opted for a dome shaped glass to eliminate the big black button. Mine will have the remote button under the dash. It's a compass, 1/4 mile timer, 0-60 timer, trip odometer, etc etc. The speedometer alone as I designed is 245ish. I also opted for a different font
Sorry for the Hijack Lynn and Jim.....kinda fit as an alternative to the hassles of retrofiting an oem to work.
PS...check out the gps speedo video at the bottom of the page I posted a link to...particularly the response time when they were on the roadcourse.
I just found out it also has an elevation readout...supercool when your in the mountains as I often am. I was actually looking for one of those a few years ago...couldn't find one.
So, Lynn...had a chance to check out that new gear?
Yep, sorta! I put the RH 17 tooth gear in the car and the speedometer worked, sorta. I have a black drive gear and I am sure it is worn from trying to mesh with a LH gear. I have a new pink drive gear which should give me the correct ratio with the 17 tooth gear I bought. I just need to pull the tailshaft housing to change it out. I am positive this will fix the issue. I feel like an "expert" on the subject now... :003:
Hooray!!! I pulled the tailshaft on my transmission (it was a pain with my exhaust now installed) and replaced the 7 tooth black drive gear with a 6 tooth pink one. The right hand black gear was chewed up trying to mesh with a left hand 21 tooth gear, DUH! I put the car back together with a new 17 tooth right hand driven gear, new 6 tooth pink right hand drive gear, and a new speedometer cable. Success!!!
I hope this stupid mistake on my part will keep somebody else from traveling down the same path! :003:
Well done!
Glad you finally got your speedo situation sorted out Lynn. Wondering where you obtained a speedo cable long enough to go to the passenger side speedo hole. Did you have one custom made, if so , what length did you choose, and if a factory application cable works, what is the application?
The part number is ATP Y801. It is still available from almost any parts store, Summit, eBay etc. I bought mine from RockAuto, under $10. It is 82" long. It fits a bunch of Fords.