You guys made me buy this...

[mustang6984]

There is some good discussion on Ford Barn Hugh about the original masters.. under the 53 forum part discussion area.. and yes.... they can be rebuilt easily.
Nice save on this car.

Thanks I sure am happy with it as I dig deeper into it. found the Fairlane and "500" script in a box yesterday too. a little rough, but unbroken and looking fairly decent!
Thanks for the heads up on the master cylinder info as well. I will go there and read up on it. I rebuilt the master on my white Courier back in '71. But knowing how things have changed over the years wasn't sure the kits were still available.
Gonna go out today to town...and will also be looking to stop and buy the Hot Rod mag so I can read yuor piece! Congrats again!


/quote]

[gasman826]

December issue...might not be at the news stands yet

[mustang6984]

Yea...didn't find one. I'll start looking in earnest end of this month then. Thanks. Wasn't aware it was December issue. Thanks.

[KULTULZ]

KUL...here are pics I took today.

On the pics, you will see the lines come from the covers, (I took a pic if the driver's side valve cover one) and then go to a junction box, where a line comes out and goes to the housing block for the oil filter. Also notice...there is NO sign of leaks on the valve cover where this line comes out. I have not yet pulled the valve cover, since I want to try and fire the motor and did not want to have a leak, or spend money for an extra valve cover gasket set. Have pretty much decided to do a rebuild on the engine since I need to pull it anyhow in order to clean up the engine compartment and repaint it.

If you want better pics, I'll take my 35 out there and shoot some...these were shot with my phone. One guy I talked to told me that he had heard of this being done on the 292 engines due to oiling issues with the top end of the engine. The lack of leaks is what has me puzzled...how the hell...?

I really appreciate those pics!

It is an unusual design. When you rebuild, please take detailed photos and post them on this thread if possible.

It appears to be a valve-train external oiling supply system as the FYB had an engineering flaw(s) in the original design. It (the design) failed and left the rocker arms not lubricated. The usual repair was the copper lines to the rocker arm retaining bolts if you have ever seen one.

There is another system that by-passes the original design completely -

[KULTULZ]

Yea...didn't find one. I'll start looking in earnest end of this month then. Thanks. Wasn't aware it was December issue. Thanks.

I found it (in all places) at my doctor's office waiting room.

Hopefully they will possibly cover the complete build at a future date/issue.

[mustang6984]

Both of your designs look much better than mine. But now, the question is, does the issue still exist with the 292, and if so...do I need to use one of the three to correct it from the beginning? If so, I favor the version with the valve cover being piped like your red ones.

Apparently your doc has a subscription...my doc is not a car guy. 

[1930artdeco]

From little I know of Y block history it came down to the crap oils from the 50's and lack of maintenance. But that is all I know. New oils and actually changing the oil at short intervals should clear up oiling issues. Keep in mind that this what I think happened:)

Mike

[KULTULZ]

Both of your designs look much better than mine. But now, the question is, does the issue still exist with the 292, and if so...do I need to use one of the three to correct it from the beginning? If so, I favor the version with the valve cover being piped like your red ones.

Apparently your doc has a subscription...my doc is not a car guy. 

IF a Y-BLOCK is rebuilt correctly, it will not have the flaws that lead to need a system such as shown.

The problem(s) were mainly camshaft bearing failures and service intervals. There were detergent motor oils then but few used them.

I brought all of this up on a different thread but was poo-pooed by those saying there was no need for the modifications. I then dropped the conversation.

The system I showed was for HI-PO (lines though the lifter valley), not service.

I still want to see under those rocker covers though ... 

New oils and actually changing the oil at short intervals should clear up oiling issues.

Now don't forget, if you have an original engine all sludged up and you put today's detergent oils in it, that sludge may break loose and plug the pump screen.

[mustang6984]

Well...I am a fanatic about oil changes. I don't care what today's car manufacturers say...every 3-5 thousand miles...out with the old and in with the new. I also do not use synthetics. New filter and oil...and up until recently...stuck to straight old 30w. Now I can't find it anywhere any more, so 10-30 is what I use today. I have multiple cars well over 100k...with the '98 Explorer the champ at 317k on the original engine.
So if I am reading both 1930 deco & KULTULZ right...my oil changing habits coupled with today's oils should alleviate the issue of poor oiling up top.

As for sludge breaking loose..won't matter if it does I suppose. Even if it doesn't REALLY need it...probably gonna tear down the engine and give it a rebuild. Need to pull it out anyhow to paint the engine bay, so...freshen up the 'ol block and heads yes?

Thanks for the info guys. I was hoping that was where I was gonna get to go.
And KUL...you WILL get pics of the underside of the rockers.

[KULTULZ]

So if I am reading both 1930 deco & KULTULZ right...my oil changing habits coupled with today's oils should alleviate the issue of poor oiling uptop.

No, the poor upper oiling (FYB) is due to poor design and part(s) failure. Once the parts fails (usually the cam bearing) there is no alternative other than replacing the cam bearing or adding the external oiler kit. You would then use modern oil in a proper rebuild.

Oil changes can be extended on modern engines as there is better fuel control and machining techniques are much different from the past, plus the quality of today's oil..

If you do add modern oil to an older engine, you need a pressure gauge and monitor it carefully. You really don't want to use an oil past classification SJ/SM rating on an older engine.

BTW - 10W-30 is the desired oil in an older engine (IMO).

[Fairlane62]

Many engines didnt have oil filters prior to the fifties, so the high paraffin oils of the time allowed particles to settle to the bottom of the pan overnight where they were captured in the waxy sludge.  Dropping and cleaning the pan was a recommended maintenance item back then.  Modern detergent oils hold the particles in suspension so they can be removed by the oil filter.
The paraffin would also clog small passages in engines, especially if oil was not changed frequently.  The Y-Block had a "dog leg" in the passage from the #3 cam bearing to the rocker pedestal which would get clogged.  Other engines of the time that oiled through the push rods would get clogged in the lifters or push rod itself.
Modern oils alleviated these problems.  Modern engines like Ford modulars and Chevy LS with the variable cam timing wouldn't have even been practical with the old oils as the metering orifices would have clogged up quickly.

James

[mustang6984]

so...if I am reading you both correctly...my insanity about regular oil changes and using the modern 10-30 should give me a plethora of miles...with no issues...right?

[KULTULZ]

so...if I am reading you both correctly...my insanity about regular oil changes and using the modern 10-30 should give me a plethora of miles...with no issues...right?

In your case, only on a correctly machined/assembled rebuilt engine. If it has an oiling kit being used, most likely the rest of the engine is clogged.

As for PARAFFIN, read this - https://auto.howstuffworks.com/5-tips-for-preventing-motor-oil-deposits.htm

Then period motor oils were not the devil's juice. It was formulated for that time period.

The problem(s) came from poor service intervals, using wrong and/or cheap oil and poor crankcase ventilation. And then there was leaded gasoline. The FYB had major lubrication problems which are easily corrected during a rebuild.

While oil filters remove particulate over 25 microns, sludge, tar, varnish and wear metals less than 25 microns continue to circulate within the engine and accumulate in the passageways, oil pump and oil pan. These contaminates cause engine wear, higher operating temperatures, and reduced lubrication.

Simply pouring chemical flush additives into the crankcase is ineffective. Dissolved sludge, particulate and accumulated debris continue to circulate causing significant engine wear.

SOURCE - FORD ENGINE FLUSH MACHINE INSTRUCTION SHEET

Additives also describe modern high detergent/dispersant motor oils.

[KULTULZ]

[mustang6984]

When I worked in the oil fields back in the early 70's I was told that the largest paraffin contaminated oil was of the Pennzoil/Quaker State ilk. Something about their fields made them heavier in the paraffin waxes.
I typically use Havoline/Valvoline. I am going to rebuild the engine. When it goes back into the car it will be as clean as the day it was built in '57.