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We purchased a "drop in" disc brake system from Brake Tech Solutions, NC. We have rotors, brakes installed but our mechanic is not sure this booster is going to fit without hitting manifold. We do not want to
remove old and find this booster will not fit. Anyone used this company's brake kit? Or have pictures of their booster installation.

I purchased a very similar unit for my 57. I just bolted it on the 58 I bought last spring. It's a 292 y-block, stick. The brake unit is from Fatman products. The setup cleared that engine package ,no problem. I did wind up altering the rod adapter bracket, stroke was wrong, not a bolt on. Mark

hey guys anybody out there ever deal with 58 edsel treadlevac brake boosters. does ford use this unit? anyone ever replace this with modern 2 pot m.c. and booster thanks.

Yup, have one in a box right now.  Ford never used the thing, Mercury, Edsel and Lincoln did.  I did put a 7" dual diaphragm booster in the Edsel, brakes work but just not real happy.  Need an 8" but it hit the valve cover.  I have not researched an after market setup yet.

Have to wonder if the pedal assembly under the Edsel Treadlvac dash is the same as the Ford power brake under dash?  I have a good system in the Ranchero, it was designed to replace the manual set up.  Is the leverage system the same between the Edsel and Ford, if so it should work fine.

TREADLE-VAC

SWIFT-SURE

hey guys  kinda had the same question about the linkage under dash dont have aford set up to look at, but edsel has some additional bellcrank parts  ihave adapted a booster/m.c. from 77 mustang ii used a 90 f150 m.c. had to rework linkage under dash (pedal travel way to short) appears that tredelvac unit requires much longer travel. still have more refinement/troubleshooting to do, as brakes are good (stock drums) but pedal pressure still too high.

Quote from: 58villager on 2022-03-12 12:03

hey guys  kinda had the same question about the linkage under dash dont have aford set up to look at, but edsel has some additional bellcrank parts 

ihave adapted a booster/m.c. from 77 mustang ii used a 90 f150 m.c. had to rework linkage under dash (pedal travel way to short) appears that tredelvac unit requires much longer travel. still have more refinement/troubleshooting to do, as brakes are good (stock drums) but pedal pressure still too high.

You have 58 EDSEL with four-wheel drum brakes? The 90 F-150 MC is 4-wheel drum or DISC/DRUM?

I imagine the pedal is a little touchy.

Again, TREADLE-VAC is (was) a GM SYSTEM that was also used by LINC-MERC in the early fifties. I think you are describing the KH SWIFT-SURE BRAKE ASSIST SYSTEM that came on 1957/ FORD-EDSEL.

Quote from: 57ragtop on 2009-10-14 17:42

We purchased a "drop in" disc brake system from Brake Tech Solutions, NC. We have rotors, brakes installed but our mechanic is not sure this booster is going to fit without hitting manifold. We do not want to
remove old and find this booster will not fit. Anyone used this company's brake kit? Or have pictures of their booster installation.

Do you have the WEB SITE and kit description/instruction sheet?

I see it is a GM MC. The calipers were also GM? Did they describe the calipers as being METRIC?

This is a 57 FORD Y-BLOCK?

The pedal linkage is completely different between the Ford and Edsel.  Could not find a "bolt in" kit for Edsel with power brakes.  Might be swapping in a 57 - 58 Ford manual brake pedal might be the way to go.  The kits for the 57 - 58s and others move the booster and master up away from the engine with plenty of room.

I stand corrected ...  :sad3:

I was not aware EDSEL used the xxx-MORAINE-xxx BENDIX TREADLE-VAC on THE MERC-EDSEL-LINC-SQUAREBIRD platforms. I thought (a$$-u-med) the FORD PLATFORM used KH SWIFT-SURE.

THANX! for the wake-up call ...

I will now go to my SPECIAL PLACE and sulk for awhile ...

EDIT -

MORAINE TREADLE-VAC - FOMOCO ACTUALLY USED THE BENDIX TREADLE-VAC SYSTEM,  not the DELCO-MORAIN SYSTEM.

to KULTULZ ,been messing with edsels for years owned several through the years ,all stock daily drivers project now kinda ratrod style want to make it more user friendly (power steering & brakes that work in todays traffic) every time i go to modify, i find more suprises, so don"t feel to bad !!!!  also, yeh it does have drum all around ,but pedel travel very short  and kinda hard. got to check my booster to make sure it's working properly (just doesn't feel right)  also ,what would be the difference between disc & drum m.c.  maybe rpv (in older units) doesn't seem like newer/reman units use these anymore. thanks

To 58villager -

I will be more than glad to help you with a changeover. What I need to see is how you put a vacuum booster on a brake pedal design for a TREADLE-VAC. Can you take photos and post, under dash and engine compartment?

Will have to start a new thread after this.

The EDSEL had its' own PARTS MANUAL and WORKSHOP MANUAL and had two platforms in 1958. I admired them but never got my hands on one.

Your VILLAGER has what engine and trans?

The below ILL is of a MERC install. I think I am going to have to buy some EDSEL LITERATURE as FORD did some unique things on the car.

Thanks for the great diagram KULTULZ, perfect.  That is exactly what the Edsel (Pacer) linkage looks like.

What I did to mount the 7" booster was make a heavy plate that bolts to the fire wall mount (2A248) that is bolted through the fire wall to the pedal support just as the 57 - 58 supports are.  The four mounting studs on both the 7" and 8" are 3 3/8 " square and fit inside the original fire wall mount (2A248).  I took an old push rod, fit it to the new booster and coupled it to the pedal assembly with the stock hard ware.  The 8" booster hit the valve cover hard.  No room to even slip a piece of paper between them.

After pondering the situation, a little six pack engineering, I believe mounting a 57 - 58 manual pedal and using an after market power kit that will bolt up to the fire wall will do the trick. 

I spent close to a week figuring and working to keep the car so that if an individual wanted to go back to the Treadle vac it would be a simple bolt in process.  I'll post a picture latter to day.

Quote from: Ford Blue blood on 2022-03-15 08:12

Thanks for the great diagram KULTULZ, perfect.  That is exactly what the Edsel (Pacer) linkage looks like.

What I did to mount the 7" booster was make a heavy plate that bolts to the fire wall mount (2A248) that is bolted through the fire wall to the pedal support just as the 57 - 58 supports are.  The four mounting studs on both the 7" and 8" are 3 3/8 " square and fit inside the original fire wall mount (2A248).  I took an old push rod, fit it to the new booster and coupled it to the pedal assembly with the stock hard ware.  The 8" booster hit the valve cover hard.  No room to even slip a piece of paper between them.

After pondering the situation, a little six pack engineering, I believe mounting a 57 - 58 manual pedal and using an after market power kit that will bolt up to the fire wall will do the trick. 

I spent close to a week figuring and working to keep the car so that if an individual wanted to go back to the Treadle vac it would be a simple bolt in process.  I'll post a picture latter to day.

You are quite welcome. Discussions as this allow me to learn what I missed years ago. I will look forward to the photo(s).

I am wondering if the complete FORD stock setup could be transferred to the EDSEL (FORD) from the FORD or if FORD did anything from either cowl/firewall. Then one could go about whatever booster/MC design they want to use.

I am still stymied why EDSEL used the TREADLE-VAC on the small EDSEL. It seems (to me) that the SWIFT-SURE would have been cheaper and easier.

And I forgot to ask the OP if his foundation brakes were self-adjusting.

QuoteI spent close to a week figuring and working to keep the car so that if an individual wanted to go back to the Treadle vac it would be a simple bolt in process.

And that is appreciated. I believe if modification(s) are done that it be done in a way that the car can be returned to OEM. Cause no harm.

I have an original factory maintenance manual for the Edsel.  It only shows the Treadlvac as the power brake booster.  Need to see if there is a "blow apart" picture of the manual set up like the one you posted.  There are no dimensions listed for the hardware in the manual.  Might be in a parts book?  The brakes on all four corners are self adjusting.

Was intended on posting a picture of the instal but life got in the way.  Will try today!

Best I can tell the brace the pedal hangs on is "Ford" on the fire wall side given the bolt pattern, the two sheet metal screws that hold it in place installed from the interior side and the four bolts that hold the booster mount to the fire wall.

hey guys pulled out my spare parts tredlevac unit and pedal support. measured the travel of booster pushrod at full pedal travel. booster pushrod travels about 3 " compared to typical ford dual pot m.c. travel at about 1.25" . (m.c. from 77 mustang ii) probably easiest p.b. conversion may be 57-58 ford man. brakes pedal and bolt on kit. didn't do mine that way,used availible parts (m ii booster, '90 f150 master) clearance to valve cover(with fe motor very tight (maybe 1/16")) clearance with engine swap ('90 f150 300-L6) plenty. also ,looked in some ford factory service manuals ,(overhaul m.c.) manuals make note that drum/drum m.c. has rcv in both outlet ports, disc/drum m.c. has rcv only in secondary (rear brake) port nearest front of vehicle. hope this helps.  also can help w/details how i modified linkage under dash using numbers from above pictured exploded view provided by kultulz. thanks gerald

Alrighty then, got the pictures (kind of) of how I ended up with what I have.  I agree that the best way to upgrade the power brakes on the Edsels (get rid of the Treadlevac) is to go with a 57 - 58 Ford manual brake pedal and an after market kit for the 57 - 58 Fords.

Quote from: Ford Blue blood on 2022-03-16 07:45

I have an original factory maintenance manual for the Edsel.  It only shows the Treadlvac as the power brake booster.

THANK YOU for that. Like I said, I learn something every day ...  :003:

QuoteNeed to see if there is a "blow apart" picture of the manual set up like the one you posted.  There are no dimensions listed for the hardware in the manual.  Might be in a parts book?  The brakes on all four corners are self adjusting.

Yes, all the detail will be in the 1958 EDSEL PARTS MANUAL. EDSEL CATALOGING was separate from FORD or LINC or MERC during that period.

Now I am wondering if EDSEL hung MERC foundation brakes as MERC released self-adjusters in 1957. Your wheels are 15X5 (MERC) rather that 15X4.5 (FORD)?

Quote from: Ford Blue blood on 2022-03-16 16:09

Alrighty then, got the pictures (kind of) of how I ended up with what I have.  I agree that the best way to upgrade the power brakes on the Edsels (get rid of the Treadlevac) is to go with a 57 - 58 Ford manual brake pedal and an after market kit for the 57 - 58 Fords.

Again, appreciated ...

Very detail orientated. Now does that also show the MTG PLATE you fabricated? You decided to stay with a SGL RSVR MC?

Quote from: 58villager on 2022-03-16 13:22hey guys pulled out my spare parts tredlevac unit and pedal support. measured the travel of booster pushrod at full pedal travel. booster pushrod travels about 3 " compared to typical ford dual pot m.c. travel at about 1.25" . (m.c. from 77 mustang ii) probably easiest p.b. conversion may be 57-58 ford man. brakes pedal and bolt on kit. didn't do mine that way,used availible parts (m ii booster, '90 f150 master) clearance to valve cover(with fe motor very tight (maybe 1/16")) clearance with engine swap ('90 f150 300-L6) plenty. also ,looked in some ford factory service manuals ,(overhaul m.c.) manuals make note that drum/drum m.c. has rcv in both outlet ports, disc/drum m.c. has rcv only in secondary (rear brake) port nearest front of vehicle. hope this helps.  also can help w/details how i modified linkage under dash using numbers from above pictured exploded view provided by kultulz. thanks gerald

IMO - The only safe way to rid FORD EDSEL of the TREADLE-VAC is to revert to OEM 1957/58 brake linkage(s).

About the MC as to whether DISC/DRUM or DRUM/DRUM conversion, FORD deleted the RPV(s) during the 1971 model run and went to wheel cylinder cup expanders. If one is going to a DUAL RSVR MC, a model pre-1971 is needed to have the RPV's included in the system (and this will have to be OEM as replacements usually do not include RPV's).

I would also consider using the SWIFT-SURE power assist as if keeping four-wheel drum, the brakes are self energizing and also being self-adjusting along with using QUALITY service brake parts, should give one a safe car.

Trying to use the OEM TREADLE-VAC linkage to use a later booster style will not work due to geometry.

EDIT - The above statement should have been marked IMO as I have no idea if it is correct or not.

What is puzzling me the most is these so-called DISC BRAKE CONVERSION VENDORS selling a vacuum booster setup to replace the OEM TREADLE-VAC units and not giving info as to whether the linkage(s) need to be modified.

Yes the wheels are 5 X 5 14''.  The plate in the photo is what I made to mount the new 7' dual diaphragm to the Treadlevac mount.  I did not get any pictures of the push rod.  It is simply an adjustable length push rod that has the correct diameter for the pin that connects to the levers on the pedal.  The adapter plate was simply copied from the Treadlevac mount, used a hole saw to make the big hole and careful layout to get all the mount holes square.

I elected to stay with a single reservoir because they work well and I did not put disc on the car.  The master is a 62 Thunderbird, used it because they were 4 wheel drum and worked very well.

I agree after looking and pondering that the best way to rid the Treadlevac is to replace the brake pedal with a 58 - 58 Ford manual.  Changing the pedals eliminate the "under dash" geometry that is built in for the booster application.  The after market kits for the Ford manual upgrade have the geometry built into the new mount that comes in the kit.  It also raises the 8" booster up and away from the valve cover.  I used one of those on the Ranchero and have great brakes.

Very impressive. You have presently a 58 EDSEL or had previously?

I'm sorry, I did not ask a question clearly. By wheel size I meant the bolting size/pattern. Are the wheel bolting pattern 5 X 4.5" (FORD pattern) or 5 X 5" (MERC pattern) as EDSEL used self-adjusters and I would imagine FORD used the MERC wheel ends to save money. Is the rear axle housing a 9" FORD or DANA? (I really need to source an EDSEL PARTS MANUAL).

I appreciate your willing to share info and am impressed by your mechanical abilities.

And I fully understand your using the SGL RSVR MC.

hey guys 58 edsel ranger/pacer cars used 5 on 5" bolt pattern, 58 station wagons used 5 on 4.5" bolt pattern. go fiqure!! BTW  looking more at spare/extra parts, noticed my 58 bermuda s.w. (build date june '57) has a "swift sure" brake pedal pad .2 other pedal assms have plain pads. makes you wonder just what was ford doing. also rear axles were all 9" from what i've seen.

Quote from: 58villager on 2022-03-17 18:49

hey guys 58 edsel ranger/pacer cars used 5 on 5" bolt pattern, 58 station wagons used 5 on 4.5" bolt pattern. go fiqure!! BTW  looking more at spare/extra parts, noticed my 58 bermuda s.w. (build date june '57) has a "swift sure" brake pedal pad .2 other pedal assms have plain pads. makes you wonder just what was ford doing. also rear axles were all 9" from what i've seen.

All three cars have power brakes and just one with a SWIFT-SURE pedal pad? Interesting.

It may be that FORD named it's PB from 1954-1959 as SWIFT-SURE. This included the early MERC w TREADLE-VAC. Or the car was assembled incorrectly (EDSEL ASSY had problems) or it is a service replacement somewhere along its' service history.

Just conjecture. I need to find an EDSEL PARTS CATALOG.

Keep us up with your progress and THANX for the update. You have how many EDSEL's?

Yes I have a 1958 Edsel Pacer 2dr. ht.  Build date of August 17th in the Louisville plant.  The wheels are 5 X 5.  I suspect many early build date Edsels have a mix-mash of parts as they were built on Ford assembly lines.  They were famous for having many assembly issue that were handed to the dealers to fix.  Mine had "three factory installed" issues on the drivers side.  Corrected one and left the other two for historical reasons.  The corrected one was the front screw that holds the flipper to the roof rail was never drilled into the roof, it was wedged in side was and never allowed the flipper to work properly.  I left the scars on the flipper again for historical reasons. The two remaining are the lack of a small bumper on the bottom of the door jam and the valve cover on the left side of the engine.  It has no E400 stamp on it but has the correct plug wire loom spotted on it.

Quote... valve cover on the left side of the engine.  It has no E400 stamp on it but has the correct plug wire loom spotted on it.

Now that's interesting. Is the E-400 raised stamping or is it just a decal?

I have seen Edsel valve covers, and they always were stamped with the E400 & E475 identification. I have always thought that the Ford based Edsel Ranger and Pacers used the 5 x 4 1/2" Ford wheel stud pattern,and the Mercury based Corsair and Citation used the 5" pattern, is that not the case?  I have a 58 Edsel 9" rearend, that I had narrowed a bit, and installed in my 59. When I bought the rearend years ago, I didn`t notice that it had the larger 5" bolt pattern, and was also wider than a 57-9 Ford car rear.

hey guys yep ,3 edsel stationwagons,all with tredlevac units, one built june'57 (san jose plant),one built august '57,one built dec '57 (both louisville plant) san jose car has swiftsure pedal pad,also doors(all 4) have trim holes for ford trim holes filled with brass. don't know if ford /wagons used 11"x 3" front brakes as well . BTW didn;t mean to hijack the site with edsel stuff, but edsel info hard to come by!! also, any one have supplier info for s.w. door,tailgate seals and woodgrain rail attaching hardware thanks,gerald

Quote from: 59meteor on 2022-03-18 17:59

I have seen Edsel valve covers, and they always were stamped with the E400 & E475 identification.

That's what I am trying to ascertain, whether the ID was stamped (as were FORD-MERC-BIRD) and was painted or were they FE "Baldies' and painted or decal-ed. I have seen repro decals.

QuoteI have always thought that the Ford based Edsel Ranger and Pacers used the 5 x 4 1/2" Ford wheel stud pattern,and the Mercury based Corsair and Citation used the 5" pattern, is that not the case?  I have a 58 Edsel 9" rearend, that I had narrowed a bit, and installed in my 59. When I bought the rearend years ago, I didn`t notice that it had the larger 5" bolt pattern, and was also wider than a 57-9 Ford car rear.

That's what I thought also but read this -

Quote from: 58villager on 2022-03-17 18:49

hey guys 58 edsel ranger/pacer cars used 5 on 5" bolt pattern, 58 station wagons used 5 on 4.5" bolt pattern. go fiqure!! BTW  looking more at spare/extra parts, noticed my 58 bermuda s.w. (build date june '57) has a "swift sure" brake pedal pad .2 other pedal assms have plain pads. makes you wonder just what was ford doing. also rear axles were all 9" from what i've seen.

I found a reference on the net (so it has to be true) confirming this but didn't have enough smarts to save it.

As for hsng width, could the rear have come from a MERC based EDSEL?

I am going to have to bite the bullet and buy an EDSEL PARTS CATALOG

Quote from: 58villager on 2022-03-18 21:45

hey guys yep ,3 edsel stationwagons,all with tredlevac units, one built june'57 (san jose plant),one built august '57,one built dec '57 (both louisville plant) san jose car has swiftsure pedal pad,also doors(all 4) have trim holes for ford trim holes filled with brass. don't know if ford /wagons used 11"x 3" front brakes as well .

BTW didn;t mean to hijack the site with edsel stuff, but edsel info hard to come by!! also, any one have supplier info for s.w. door,tailgate seals and woodgrain rail attaching hardware thanks,gerald

Different ASSY PLANTS might also explain the pedal difference.

I personally don't mind HI-JACKING (within reason) but usually the overseers dislike it. I haven't seen any flack yet.

Usually when a subject changes within a thread much information is lost - (IMO).

I too want to learn more about EDSEL but info is limited to restorers mainly.

OH! The info you are seeking is most likely to be found in the EDSEL PARTS CATALOG, unless you find comparable hardware through a vendor such as AUVECO (body supply).

Do you have this reference - https://www.edsel.com/

Yes, the valve covers had the letters and numbers stamped in them.  The covers on my engine were never off and their condition indicated they were original (grease, dirt, rust and lack of primer of any kind) so I feel fairly confident in saying they came that way.  The wire looms are bigger then any I have seen on other Ford covers.  The factory wires had an about 4" long extra layer sheath on them where they were placed in the loom on the cover.  Not sure about any of this (wouldn't bet my life on it) but given the quality issues Edsels had.....

Quote from: Ford Blue blood on 2022-03-19 08:24

Yes, the valve covers had the letters and numbers stamped in them.  The covers on my engine were never off and their condition indicated they were original (grease, dirt, rust and lack of primer of any kind) so I feel fairly confident in saying they came that way.

So they were stamped (raised characters) and then stenciled. Answers that. Appreciated.

QuoteThe wire looms are bigger then any I have seen on other Ford covers.  The factory wires had an about 4" long extra layer sheath on them where they were placed in the loom on the cover.  Not sure about any of this (wouldn't bet my life on it) but given the quality issues Edsels had.....

The first GEN FE had a different style IGN wire hold-down at the rocker cover. The early style metal 'comb' is actually spot welded to the cover and used individual grommets to separate and protect the wires from abrasion. FORD went to the welded flange and plastic comb (B8Q 12297-A) design on the later 1958 FE as is seen on most installs.

Below are photo(s) of an E-400 that has the early type metal comb separator. The owner used a B6A 12297-A separator @ the metal comb to somewhat control abrasion in lieu (Fr.) of the individual separators.

You can also notice the 'metal' comb position was relocated on the later 1958 FE.

The 361 was introduced first and the 332-352 was introduced a little later in the 1958 production run. The early 1958 332-352 had a solid valve-train design.

Below is a photo of a 58 FORD with an early 332 FE w BALDY ROCKER COVERS. It has the early style metal combs with the individual grommets -

Quote from: Ford Blue blood on 2022-03-13 07:48The pedal linkage is completely different between the Ford and Edsel.  Could not find a "bolt in" kit for Edsel with power brakes.  Might be swapping in a 57 - 58 Ford manual brake pedal might be the way to go.  The kits for the 57 - 58s and others move the booster and master up away from the engine with plenty of room.

Here is an update on the DIAPH VACUUM BOOSTER changeover on a TREADLE-VAC equipped car -

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/1954-lincoln-brake-swap-question.1271208/