Renamed thread, was "The engine in my '57"
Pre-restoration engine views.
The previous owner tells me that the engine is toast. He was driving back from San Diego about 13 years ago and decided to get into a race up the grade into Valley Center and kind of over revved it. Valves went into pistons, cylinder walls were scored, it now is a two cylinder Y-Block according to him. There is another engine that comes with the car, a supposedly healthy 292 so when I get the car into the garage I'll be putting the other engine on a stand and going over it. If it is also not good then I'll probably get something newer and larger. Either way this powerplant is coming out. Any advice on what's larger and more modern that also fits best and is the least hassle would be most appreciated.
Ford FE series would be the easiest, mostly bolt in larger displacement engine as that is what was offered in the 58. Personally I would stay with a Y-Block, but it is your car.
Well, keeping it a Y-Block is a strong draw. I keep reading that it's a tough and reliable engine (unless it's some 40 years old and you try to top 100 on a steep grade). *Doh*
I LOVE the FE's. They were introduced in 1958 (same chassis and for the most part body) so they fit like they were made for the car, it is a bolt in with the right parts. They were a larger displacement replacement for the Y blocks and they address a lot of the Y block's short comings. You can build an FE with 332 CI all the way to over 500 CI. The FE's are about the same weight as the Y block's, parts are very available.
I agree with Lynn,.... I am a strong proponent of the FE,... and while I love the Y-Block,.. The FE is a much better engine in my opinion... very plentiful,Can be made into a powerhouse and parts are easily attainable over a parts counter.
Now saying that,.. I have a strong admiration for the Y-Block.....
I guess it depends what your plans are for your project?.... locally hanging around town or long distance hauls and vacations?.... power or cruiser?.....
But my vote is FE.
FE choice is great but I would keep the Y if at all possible. But thats just me, I love my Y..
John Mummert machine is in El Cajon. Couldn't think of anyone better to rebuild a y- block for you.
Another Y-Block guy in California is Tim McMaster.... GREAT builder and has tons of experience ......
http://yblockguy.com
I am also a life long FE fan, first swapped a FE in my old 57 Ford Sedan Delivery back in the 70s, and currently working (very slowly!) on a 59 2 door sedan with a 428 Cobra Jet and 4 speed Toploader. The FE is pretty much a straight bolt in, since it was available starting with the 58 models, provided you have the correct bits and pieces , like bellhousing or transmission, headers or exhaust manifolds, oil pan etc. Pretty much any factory front sump oil pan will fit, you can use the old Y Block motor mounts, if they are in good condition. Plus if you break down in the middle of nowhere, a parts store is much more likely to have a water pump/starter/alternator or other pieces for a 390 from a mid 70s Ford pickup than a 50s Y Block. That said, if its mainly gonna be a cruiser-driver, a 302 or 351W is a really easy swap, and very well served by local parts stores. A 302 is probably 150 pounds or so lighter than a Y Block, and there are plenty of them out there.
I have had great success with a 302/c4 and a 351/c6. They are much lighter and improve the handling of a 57. That said I just love my 292 in the Country Sedan. it is an old worn unit, but still plenty strong for keeping up with everyday traffic and extended highway use. I also love the 3spd Fordomatic, as it can be (down) and speed shifted by hand easily. it gives the 57 plenty of pep and revs. 8.00-14s are squealing all the time if needed ( I have heard them say... :002:) :003:
Never had a FE, but I do like their general design and they are similar to Y blocks in a lot of details. They look great and from what I read must be an awesome, powerful swap. I think you can't go wrong with any of those 3 choices.
Let me add one thing though. Do not bother using the C**** thing. If you do, we unfortunatley do not talk that language here. You would have to rethink that and come back when you learned the right Fordnative grammar. :002: :003:
Danke schoen, Guenter. The old hot rodder in me wants me to find an old Torino and use the engine and tranny, but I've decided that this car is going to be a daily driver and the extra engine included in the sale is going to work out fine. I saw it today and though it would be difficult for most non car folks to call it "beautiful"....it is. It turns over freely, it's all there.
It's also a 292, it came out of a pickup, it's all set up for power steering (thank you Lord) so it'll take some work and a lot of questions for everyone here on how I make it work...but it's all good.
As to using the C****** word I assume you mean Che....uh...Chev...., well you know. The thing is that I also have one of them, a '91 S-10 which I bought brand new and that's my parts hauler. Having said that, I shall never mention it again, nor saying anything about bow ties....*cough*.
parts haulers are acceptable. they are good enough for dirty jobs. :002:
depending on what year truck your engine came from there might be some differences to your engine in car. later truck engines do not have a draft tube for crankcase vent, but use a more suitable PCV system off the lifter valley cover. depending whether those vehicles were auto or manual they have different accelerator pedals and bellcrank assemblies on back of engine. the carb jets will be different.
a real 1957 pssgr 292 uses hi comp (for the time) 312 heads (mostly ECZ-G castings) with the big valves. a later truck 292 will use smaller valves and intake runners in head. you will lose a few horses, but truck blocks and cranks are generally spoken of HD quality castings and you could swap your heads in case. you will also have different motor mounts on the truck engine, but all can be swapped between engines. Make sure to absolutely keep everything of your old block except the smashed block itself. everything will come in handy at a later rebuild.
Y blocks are notorious for top oil starvation. because they have a narrow passage that got clogged in the old times from poor quality oil and paraffine. there are several remedies to that.
you might want to take your time and read these books here:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=ford+y+block+book&_sacat=0 (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=ford+y+block+book&_sacat=0)
I have both and they provide great hands on information, even if you don't plan on full rebuild.
The 'Ford Y block engines' is the more recent publication and what I would recommend first. Then you can never have enough info and the older book also provides great info as well.
Among many others, Jim and Jay are very knowledgable here about Y blocks and I am sure they will come up with many additional info from decades of experience, which books cannot provide. Personally I would love seeing a Y block going back in your wagon.
Thanks for the tip on the books, Guenter. I just ordered both and will read them from cover to cover prior to beginning any engine work. At this time I'm planning on staying with a Y-Block, if the heads that are on the car now are the higher compression heads and are undamaged I'll likely drop them onto the truck motor.
It must be an earlier truck engine as it does have a draft tube but everything I've seen on the motor it looks to be healthy. And it is set up for power steering, that is a big plus for me. I'm already reading the threads that discuss the changes in the steering that will be needed to take advantage of that.
Something like this is daunting, but the help and advise from everyone here gives me confidence that it's not something that I cannot handle, and more importantly, enjoy the heck out of doing.
Thanks so much for sharing your wisdom and knowledge, all of you. :003:
when you have the books, inspect your donor engine and verify what you have, you do not want a 1954 239cui engine, as you cannot interchange parts with later 272 up. also you don't want to use a pre 1957 distributor. there will be lots of information in the books, so you can study the casting numbers on your block heads and intake to find out exactly what you have.
forgive my ignorance, i'm not a eng guy,. i know flatheads, 292's, 312's, 302's, 351's but i don't know what a FE is, enlighten me, thanks jerry
Quote from: geraldchainsaw on 2019-04-03 19:36
forgive my ignorance, i'm not a eng guy,. i know flatheads, 292's, 312's, 302's, 351's but i don't know what a FE is, enlighten me, thanks jerry
FE's were the 332, 352, 360, 390, 406, 410, 427, 428 type from 1958 to 70's
Throw in the 361 E-400 Edsel engine to.
Let us not forget the 361T and 391T, both have forged steel cranks. The snout on the crank can be turned down to accept passenger car balancers. The high nickel block can be used if you make an adapter for the distributor giving you a "bullet proof" FE.
I think we have cover them all unless we list all the variations of 427-428's :burnout:
thanks for the info, but i'm to old now to remember any of that, jerry
Well, I bit the bullet, put on my big boy pants and looked underneath the car for the first time. I am so grateful that this is a California car. As far as I know it's lived its life in inland California. Heck, even the cars that live in the coastal regions tend to rust more quickly due to the salt air. My beloved C***y S-10 was a beach car, and it shows. :'(
But this thing is nice. Yes, there is rust. If there's no rust underneath a 62 year old car then the rust fairies were working over time. But overall it's in really, really good shape. Surface rust everywhere but nothing is rusted through or even close to being rusted through.
I lucked out, and cannot wait to get the space ready in the garage and begin the serious work. But even where she sits I'll be doing inventory or what it needs and I'll be cleaning and redoing the interior.
I was a body shop apprentice at one time and I love doing body work, unfortunately, except for a bad bondo job on the passenger side, there's not much to be done.
It does have a bit of rust along the rain rails but the headliner is toast and I've ripped enough of it out for now, enough to tell that the rust is on the outside and has not gone into the interior of the car.
Pictures to come.
A while back I had a 1958 Edsel Villager wagon I bought from El Centro. The car had been parked from 1968 under a carport/ sundeck and was in amazing shape. The only rust was in the right rear floor pan and a tiny bit in the fender tips, other than it was as solid as they come.
Sounds like you got yourself a nice solid car to start with, which is half the battle as you know.
Randy
Thanks Randy. I feel as if I lucked out too. A little sand blasting, and and little paint with undercoating and I'm doing well.
I spent about 15 minutes today rocking it back and forth, no squeaks, no resistance, I think that with a minimum of work she'll be good for another 50,000 to 100,000 miles.
This car is going to shine, and she's gonna be babied.
There are those who may say that this car was lucky to be found by me....but I feel blessed to have found this car.
that is saving you about 200 horrible working hours in one sentence ! :003:
Quote from: Cecil on 2019-04-06 17:34
It does have a bit of rust along the rain rails but the headliner is toast and I've ripped enough of it out for now, enough to tell that the rust is on the outside and has not gone into the interior of the car.
More pics before I really start to work on it. These I took today in anticipation of clearing out the weeds and getting rid of all the magazines and various car parts that don't belong. After that my main focus is clearing out the garage and parking her there so I can being disassembly.
This is gonna be fun.
If and when you start looking for parts, heads specifically, I have several pair of G's. I also have all of the interior from a 57 ranchero.
Email me at jackf@acespack.com Anyone else may as well.
Well, we'll have to see if the heads are worth pursuing. My question to all is this...the previous owner said he was racing another car up Valley Center Grade and it swallowed a valve. I'm thinking of maybe pulling the heads and seeing exactly what's in there. How are the heads, how are the valves, how how are the pistons...is it really as bad as he said?
First thing I'm gonna do is pull the plugs, pour some of that good old Mystery Oil down the the holes, let it sit a day or two, bring out the breaker bar and see if this engine, which hasn't turned a single revolution since 1995 will still move. It if does, then put a battery in it, crank it and see if it turns over. Then run a compression check...and finally, if all is good, pull the heads and see first hand what happened.
Does that make sense?
Not that it matters much, but I was going to go down to AAA to register my new love today, but then I found out she had to be insured first. So I called my Farmer's agent to have it added to my policy and he referred me to their classic car specialist who insured it through Hagerty.
Now I feel special :003:
I f you are lucky it may just be a bent pushrod or one that has fallen out from valve float, very common thing to happen..
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2019-04-11 06:45
I f you are lucky it may just be a bent pushrod or one that has fallen out from valve float, very common thing to happen..
When I was about 18 the ol' man apparently decided to adjust the valves on the family '56 Ranch wagon with the 312 & 4 barrel.
When I got home from wherever a disgusted ol' man told me to go see what's wrong with the wagon after he'd worked on it. And fix it!
I went out & saw that he did not put the right bank valve cover back on the same way it had come off.
The 'indented' side, for lack of a better word, was at the top instead of the bottom.
Pulled the cover & found 1, maybe 2, bent push rods. The rocker had caught & jammed into that indentation that those valve covers have. I guess when the lifter pushed the push rod back up it hit the rocker in just the right spot & bent it.
Went to the popular auto parts store & ask for push rod/s for a 1956 Ford 312. Guy at the counter said there wern't any '56 312 engines. ;D
272/292 push rods are probably the same as 312's but what did I know back then.
After I argued a little the counter dude
did find 1956 312s in his parts book. :laughing7:
I guess there ain't much room to spare under those stock steel Y-Block valve covers.
Come on up and I will take for a fun blast in a healthy FE. Problem is once you have opened it up you have to stop it and/or turn it, they are heavy on the front but nothing a set of disc brakes and aluminum heads would not solve. I love the torque and sound of the solid lifters but if I was to do it again I would lean towards a Roush 347 / 450 horsepower range, lighter, easier to steer and lots of pull.
Saying that, the Y-block dressed up tastefully is double pretty!
Terry
:canada: