Since I took my car apart sooo long ago, and don't have worthwhile pics, or the chassis manual that shows front assembly....I'm probably gonna be driving you guys nuts with questions since I'm getting closer to putting on front sheetmetal.
Here's a question: I took my hood hinges apart for painting (still not painted, but they are sandblasted and primed), and temporarily putting them on the core support I realized something was missing. I have the springs and the spring cap, and of course the hinges, but what holds the spring in place. I'm figuring there had to have been a clevis type pin that went thru the hinge/bracket and thru the slot in the spring"bar" below the spring cap. Is that correct? were they just clevis pins as I am guessing?
I found some hitch pins @ Gebos that are the right size for it, but have no clue what happened to whatever was in there originally. I could not find any clevis pins long enough.
Rich
I'll try to get some pictures of my spare set and post them tomorrow. Jay
Thanks Jay..appreciated. I did post an edit w/ pic of what I got that I think is in the correct spot.
Hope this helps.
Yes.....thanks for posting. Confirms what I thought. The hitch pins will work just fine until I find some clevis pins long enough. Thanks for posting those Jim.
Rich
Hope you don't mind my hi- jack , but while we are talking 57 ford hood hinges.... The sound of closing and opening a 57-59 ford hood is distinctive and if I were blind I would know what makes that sound. Is there any way of silencing it without having it dripping oil? The sound is awfully close to fingernails on a chalkboard....all from my favorite car. :burnout:
Spray White Lithium Grease on the slotted strips tha truns through the springs will really quite it down. You can get to the slots while the hood is closed as you can see them through the grille, and an additonal spray from the top of the higes with the hood up. Spray White Lithium is good to use as it dries on the outside, WD40 is only a temoporay fix on anything as it evaperates away, that is why they use White Lithium on door tracks etc.
If it doesn't screetch when you open the hood its not a '57 Ford. Actually the sound can be almost eliminated if lubricated in the right areas.
Rich
It looks like you have the answer already but I'll add these to the mix. Jay
Thanks for posting yours, Jay. From the end looking into the hinge bracket, I can see where not only the slotted bar may be the cause of the screachy noise, but also the end of the spring cap that probably is rubbing against the bracket. Hmmm...I once had some 1 1/2 wide mylar tape I could glue to the inside if the housing after painting. It was like a veneer.
The sheetmetal industry uses a nylon edge protector when they make cabinets that wiring passes thru that could be put on the edges of the slotted bar....or just white lithium like Pat mentioned.
For what it is worth, I really did not like the Hood Spring noise and so replaced the stock coil springs with aftermarket Gas Springs. It was fairly simple and just required a couple of modifications. It is totally quiet now.
WOW! What a great idea. Will I do mine?....No. Would I have if I had seen this before I finished?....Yes!
Wighty
That's a great idea. Looks like you did some thinking to come up with that idea.
Awesome...that was great idea....what did you make the bottom piece from? I don't suppose you took some step by step photos you'd like to share? I'd sure like to steal that improvement. I can see the pn on the lift, so that's a help. Since you said it was totally quiet now, I assume you've got it installed and the travel / compression on the lift is adequate.?
It took so long to line up the front of my body that I'm afraid to redue anything! I have an extra set in the shed, so maybe someday but not anytime soon. They do make a lot of noise....see the look on peoples faces when you open the hood, they all step back.
I am glad there is an interest in this modification. The silence is wonderful when the hood is going up and down. I am sure that someone has done this before. I will take some pictures in a couple of days. My Custom 300 is still under construction but I have mounted the hood on the modified hinges on the car and tested for travel and spring rate. The hood lift feels the same as the old coil springs to me. I purchase the gas springs from McMaster-Carr and chose the 130 lb. size. their part number is 9416K24. They have a 3.15" stroke. They cost $12.40 each. I also purchased the top Ball Joints, part #59935K72 from McMaster. They cost $6.00 each. I will take pictures of the two mounting parts that I made in my machine shop. They are very simple and could be done several different ways. Just need to be creative.
Looking forward to the pics..thanks. I couldn't find the suspa pn on a limited search last night..was trying to find a pic of the ends hoping they had just an eye rather than the ball stud you normally see on them. Can't beat the price..cheap improvement.
"very simple, just need to be creative"...yep, find that happens alot when you don't have a machine shop. LOL, gets frustrating when you have 20 years experience in machining, but no equiptment available now.
Rich, I know that feeling well. I always had machines available back in the day that made fabricating easy. My neighbor lady has a old Bridgeport mill that comes in handy but I sure wish I had a lathe..
Quote from: wighty on 2014-01-07 20:12
I am glad there is an interest in this modification. The silence is wonderful when the hood is going up and down. I am sure that someone has done this before. I will take some pictures in a couple of days. My Custom 300 is still under construction but I have mounted the hood on the modified hinges on the car and tested for travel and spring rate. The hood lift feels the same as the old coil springs to me. I purchase the gas springs from McMaster-Carr and chose the 130 lb. size. their part number is 9416K24. They have a 3.15" stroke. They cost $12.40 each. I also purchased the top Ball Joints, part #59935K72 from McMaster. They cost $6.00 each. I will take pictures of the two mounting parts that I made in my machine shop. They are very simple and could be done several different ways. Just need to be creative.
Subscribed, I will be standing by for further instructions ! Great mod , I am looking forward to the particulars..
Pete
Here are some pictures. I am not good with the camera, so this is the best I was able to come up with. The parts are all so dark. I stuck some white paper in the assembly view for better clarity.
1. The bottom mount is 1.00" Dia Delrin with a 5/16" dia hole through the center so I could use the stock pin. The cross hole is tapped with a thread insert for M6X1.0 for the gas spring to screw into.
2. The top mount is just a 3/8" dia SS rod drilled and tapped thru for a M6X1.0 thread. The length of the top mount had to be a little different on each of the hinge assemblies.
3. The McMaster Ball End was shortened up about .30" and screwed onto the gas spring rod.
4. The factory stamping that goes down thru the factory coil spring was drilled out and removed.
5. A 3/8" dia. hole was drilled in the hinge as shown and a clearance hole for an M6 Screw was drilled on the far side.
I hope this all makes sense and helps.
Pictures 3 and 4
Great pics and discription...thanks for taking the time to do that for us. I'm going to save it in my favorites list so I'll be able to find it down the road. Looks well plannned out, my only thoughts would be whether or not the threads in the Delrin (tough stuff I know) will hold up over time. If that turns out to be a problem, another ball swivel like the one on top should do the trick, with a pocket machined in the delrin so the swivel could get thru to the cross pin.Thanks again
Rich
The M6 Threads are steel inserts in the Delrin. The Delrin is a good bearing material for the little movement on the 5/16 dia steel pin.
So awsome! This is going to get done to my Ranchero!
Another plus with this modification, for me at least, is eliminating the slotted center piece for the spring means there is nothing extending below the hinge bracket. That makes it easier to run my A/C condenser lines. Much more room.
I think I'll keep that hitch pin I was using to replace the clevis pin. It can be removed without tools, so it would make replacing the lifts easier when the time comes. If I remember, there is enough room to reach down into that area from up top, but trying to remove/replace a cotter pin down there would be a different story. The second pic is before lift installation, and still has the spring's bracket in place.
My secondary reason for making this modification was so I could have more room to run the A/C hoses. No moving parts down there now.
Have you run your A/C lines yet? I'm still trying to sit down and figure out what I need to get them done.
I have not installed the A/C lines yet, but I did do a mock up to determine where to put the hole in the front radiator support for these lines to pass thru. I modified the radiator support quite a bit because I had to move the Griffin radiator forward a couple of inches. I will be back in the shop on Monday, so I can take a couple of pictures for you.
No hurry. I'm at a stand still until I can locate fittings to adapt or replace the Ford compressor's springlock tubes. Though I found a replacement block with o-ring fittings, but the pic shows the small and big tube reversed from what I have on the Markviii compressor. The info said it was for a Ford FS10 compressor...don't know what that is...I'll find out tommorrow.
Where is the compressor on your motor?
Rich. I will try to send pictures tomorrow evening. There are a couple pictures in the Gallery in under construction. There are two pictures on the second row that were taken before I put the body back on. It is hard to see the compressor mounting, but at least you can see the general location. My engine is a 351 Cleveland and I put a "Concept One" front pulley system on it so it uses standard fittings.
Rich. Here is a picture of the hole I cut for the A/C lines to pass through.
Rich. You also wanted to see the mounting of the compressor
Nice and neat all around. Nice job. I can see why you had to mod your core support to move the radiator up..not much room there. Fortunatly, I don't have any front to back space problems with mine (once it's in there)...with the 4.6 space problems are all on the sides. How long before yours is road ready?
Wighty...In the pic you posted of the hole thru the core support, I noticed your condenser seems to be upside down....at least it looks that way in the pic. I am refering to the two outlets. It looks like the bigger of the two you have on the bottom. I may be wrong but I 'm pretty sure the larger one (#8 coming from the compressor) has to be on top, and the bottom one (#6 going to evaporator/dryer) should be on the bottom. May be just an optical thing with the angle the pic was taken, but figured it wouldn't hurt to mention it.
Rich
Wighty..I have to appologize, I forgot which car was yours until I was browsing the in-construction gallery today. LOL...yours was the one I thought the frame/drivetrain was too pretty to cover up with a body.
http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;pic=639
Got any updated pics you'd like to share?
Whoops! You are right Rich. I better turn it over before I start running the hoses. Here is a recent picture. I am working on modifying the dash for my Dakota Digital instrument panel. Lots of welding. I need to get this completed and installed so I can begin the wiring. It is all about the journey.
I think this is going to be one of those threads with a dozen tangents...LOL..I hope no one gets mad if I hijack it....What Dakota Digital panel are you using? Your car is looking really good. Kinda glad to see others, like myself, progressing at a slower rate than "Overhauling".
The instrument panel is their oval shaped unit. I think it's shape works out real well in the stock 57 instrument location. I won't be back in the shop until next Monday when I can take a picture to show you what I am doing.
Rich, here is a picture of what I am doing with my dash. The only thing that will be on the dash is the Digital Dakota Instrument Panel and the A/C Control and Vents. Every thing else will be in the Center Counsel.
Make it a great day!
Looks good, make it your own :icon_super:
I like it I like it I like it. Similar concept to mine with removing everything else from the dash and putting it on the console. I'm anxious to see it done...LOL..you probably are too. That oval cluster works surprisingly well.
OK I converted my hood hinges to gas shocks today. I used the very helpful information from this thread. My question is, has anyone put these on and used them? I ask because clamped to the bench, they now seem to be much stronger than the springs were that I took off. I am a little afraid that when the hood is cut loose, it's going to get launched right off the front of the car. I did use the 130lb struts and my geometry is basically same as shown in this posting.
Rich, I had the same concern. They do lift the hood a little faster, but not like you may think. I have the hood mounted with the gas springs in place now and it feel good to me. When I have only one of the 130 lb. gas springs on, it wont hold the hood open. I think you would need at least the 100 lb. size on each side to do the job of lifting and holding. I sure love how silent they are. Just like a modern car.
Thanks. I am going to use them as they are. I know , when released, the safety catch grabs the hood really fast so I will be able to control it after that. I have also been involved it the old trial and error method of getting the correct pressure shocks by mail order, and it is a real pain. Overall I would I would say it was a great idea, a good design and overall, real easy to do
Well I just couldn't stand not knowing for sure if the gas shocks were going to be too strong. I took one strut off and reassembled the hinge with the stock spring set up. clamped it to the bench and using an old milk scale measured the force required to move the hinge a set number of inches. then I did the same with the other hinge with the gas strut still installed. the gas strut required only 14 lb. more force to move it than did the one with the 55 year old spring. I decided to quit worrying about that. The other thing that bothered me was the small size of the mounting bolt on the top end. I built a small L bracket, drilled a close tolerance hole and welded it to the hinge arm. Now the bolt goes through the bracket then the heim joint and into the pin. I think this will give the bolt enough support to keep it from shearing off.
Kind of a late follow up but I had consigns about the strength of the 130Lb struts but used them anyway. They just made me nervous so I ordered a pair of 110Lb. put them in and they are perfect. I should mention that I louvered my hood so I lost a bit of the inner bracing. don't think it was enough to create much of a weight differential but suppose my hood is a bit lighter than stock. Will be adding a light weight drip tray to the hood so in the end it will probably net out at zero difference. Anyone interested in a new pair of 130Lb, struts with heim joints included, let me know and we can do a two for one deal.
Nice car and nice work! A side picture would be great if you have one and the time. HRD
Doug...could you post the number/info/source of the 110# lifts...I'm lazy. Since I won't have a hood latch, only pins and the side safety catch, that's probably a better way for me to go also.
Thanks for posting that info.
Nice work, I've got to consider that on my 57 project, things pretty rodded up anyhow. I like your test methods, just enjoy stuff like that. Like rich's 12 Volt drill for a power source to test components. Mark
The struts were from McMaster-Carr they are part number 9416K24 and are 120# not 110#. The end joints are the same 59935K72
Thanks Doug. I've definetly decided to do that alteration...no choice now. LOL when I was running the ps cooler lines the easiest place was to put the holes in the core support was right under the hinge. I thought about it again for about a minute and that's what I did.
I've got to get this done on mine pretty soon. I've got a question for those who have done this.... Can the lift be accessed for replacement after the car is totally assembled without removing the grille or hood? It looks like getting to the bottom retaining pin would be a looong reach with the hood on.
I'm thinking of redesigning what Wighty came up with so the gas lift was inside a rectangular tube that attached at the top of the hinge bracket. There are 1/2 or so holes at the top of the bracket on either side. Do they have any purpose?
ttt
Quote from: 57 imposter on 2014-02-27 20:36
Well I just couldn't stand not knowing for sure if the gas shocks were going to be too strong. I took one strut off and reassembled the hinge with the stock spring set up. clamped it to the bench and using an old milk scale measured the force required to move the hinge a set number of inches. then I did the same with the other hinge with the gas strut still installed. the gas strut required only 14 lb. more force to move it than did the one with the 55 year old spring. I decided to quit worrying about that. The other thing that bothered me was the small size of the mounting bolt on the top end. I built a small L bracket, drilled a close tolerance hole and welded it to the hinge arm. Now the bolt goes through the bracket then the heim joint and into the pin. I think this will give the bolt enough support to keep it from shearing off.
57 Imposter............could you take a photo of this "L" bracket you made and installed, and post it here for all of us to see. I'm going to do this modification, and only want to do it once, and do it right. I'm also interested in the correct gas shocks.....should they be the 120# or the 130# for a stock hood?
Thanks
John
Wighty,
i have a couple of questions about yourhood hinge mod. Why didn't you use the existing hole in the hood
arm? Could i use a 3/8" dia shanked bolt with some lock nuts and washers instead of the drill and tapped 3/8" SS Rod? I also found a 3/8" SS Internally Threaded Shoulder bolt that i think would be perfect but only come 2" long
Part # 96655A129.
I dont have much experiance useing taps and helical inserts. I was also thinking of using another 5/16" dia ball end on the pin side with the 1" delrin just as spacers, can you see any drawback with this?
I love your design it's elegant, I am just trying to work up a solution that doesn't involve so much machining.
If you check out pages before and after the gas shock listing on the Mcmaster-carr online catalog, You will see all kinds of ends and brackets available for them. I also was thinking about a swivel heims joint with a hole for the bottom. spacers would be required on both sides as you mentioned, and that is what got me to thinking about redesigning how the shock was attached to the hinge bracket. Trying to load that retaining pin, spacer, gas shock, 2nd spacer, then trying to attach a clip to retain the pin while the car is assembled would be an exercise in frustration I would think. My concern here is down the road if a shock has to be replaced...not initial assembly.
In my post above, I didn't explain my idea too well, so I'll give it another shot:
A 2 x 2 rectangular tube to fit down inside the hinge bracket. The gas shock would be attached at the bottom of the rectangular tube, the difference being that would be done on the bench rather than on an assembled car. The fabricated rectangular tube would be made in such a manner that it is attached/bolted to the top area of the hinge housing...much easier to access. You would attach the new shock to the tube, then bolt the tube/shock assembly into the hinge bracket.
All that would be left to do is attach the top of the shock to th hinge arm.
Thanks for makeing me completely confused now Rich! In doing more research McMaster doesn't list a M6x1, 5/16" ball end to fit around the factory pin. I like Wighty's original idea of drilling and tapping the delrin the more and more i think about it. It shouldn't be that hard with just a drill press. I did find a longer 3/8" shoulder bolts at Fastenal.
Sorry for the confusion. Mcmaster does make a 5/16 eyelet end with the m6 thread...which I think is what you were refering to as "5/16 ball end to fit around the factory pin". It is pn 9416K84.
I just ordered everything from Mcmaster-Carr I think I'll need for the idea I came up with including 2 expensive ss 5/16 x 2" shoulder bolts with internal end threads pn 96655A123. I also ordered the asortment of m6 ends and ball studs. I went with the 130# lift as my hood, unlike 57Imposter's, is actually heavier than oem (large hood scoop)
In the next week or so, after I receive the MC stuff, I should have them pretty much on their way, and hopefully some pics will end the confusion. I picked up some 1/8 wall 2x2 rec. tubing today...3ft remnant for $5. I'll get the tubing portion made while I'm waiting for the lifts and hardware.
BTW, while we're waiting for wighty to respond to questions....I suspect the reason the original hole was not used may have been for 3 reasons. Hole size, and the length of the air lift/assembled ends when depressed would require a specific span between the two mounting holes, and thirdly interference with the air lift's body against the inner front side of the hinge bracket. If you notice the slotted spring guide/holder? moves the center of the spring towards the core support 1 1/2 or so.
Funny, I ordered most of the stuff i need from Mcmaster-Carr yesturday as well, had it overnighted and it was on my porch by 10:30am. Took a look into the 5/16 eyelet end and that's what is needed for a easier option. I already bought the delrin and M6 helia coils but I would rather have another eyelet on the pin end. I can still drill the delrin and use it for spacers. That shoulder bolt is the same one I was looking at but without haveing the hinge brackets off the car I am not sure 2" is going to be enough grip on that bolt. The internally threaded shoulder bolt would be much much easier than drilling and tapping a SS rod.
My version will not be using the 2" long shoulder bolt thru the hinge bracket, only the inner 2" tube, so the 2" will be perfect for me. Kinda expensive at 10.80 each, but will make the job easier.
First, a quote from the Mcmaster Carr catalog:
Note: All gas springs contain pressurized nitrogen gas as well as hydraulic fluid that lubricates the seal and provides slam-resistant damping at the end of the stroke. To avoid loss of force, you should store and install gas springs rod-end down.
Unless he changed them, wighty's is rod end up.
Second' a pic that will give a better idea of my approach. I still have alot of fitting to do, but it was getting dark, and I can't go too far until I get the lifts. I'm thinking I will attach the top of the lift where I have the X marked after cutting off the slotted down piece....that would be putting it pretty close to the oem location of the spring. The bottom of the lift would be attached to the bottom of the 2 x 2 tube, and I can extend the tube beyond the bottom of the bracket if I need to to accomadate the overall compressed length of the lift with ends attached.
Once again, the only reasons for the tube is easier acceability for gas lift repacement, and the fact it can all be done with a cut off tool and drill press...no machined parts.
I have not been paying attention to this thread for a while. Sorry that I have not responded to the several questions. Rich is right, I do have the gas springs mounted upside down, which is a mistake on my part. The springs are still working good, but they have mostly been holding the hood in the open position as I have been busy with my wiring and getting the new engine tuned and detailed. For me it is not that hard to reach down to the lower mounting shaft, should I need to replace a spring. I will look to see if I can turn the spring over so they will last a little longer. There are usually lots of ways to design and the designs usually get better with each iteration. I must say that I sure do not miss the noisy coil springs.
Wighty
Hey wighty...good to hear from you. I was trying to come up with a way to avoid machined parts. I figured if you could get to your rod, you could just unscrew it, that's when I noticed it wasn't the rod that was attached there. I figured if I went with a 5/16 pin and spacers trying to substitute for the machined delrin part, I'd a heck of a time trying to assemble all that stuff without removing the grille to get to it if it ever needed replacing. Kudos again to you for coming up with this idea to begin with.
Rich...Sorry I am so late in getting to this but I have been up to my, you know what, trying to finish a bathroom remodel. It sounds like this conversion has left me in the dust. Its fun to watch an idea grow and expand when more eyes look at it and more minds think about it. I can't even remember exactly how the bottom attachment was made on mine but I know I used an aluminum rod with brass bushings due to the high cost of delrin, in this area Had to buy a 6 foot stick. My shocks are also in upside down {and I knew better} but it would take a complete re-do correct them. If and when I have a problem, I will have to remove the hood to remove the hinges for repair. When I consider my age, I have a feeling by the time they fail, hopefully, they will be someone else's problem..
I know how the remodeling projects go...my wife keeps bringing up taking money out of the retirement acount so I can start working on the house again. LOL...it's her account, not like she's waiting for me to do it, and I ain't going to remind her.
Well, I'm glad you confirmed the assembly will be difficult to reach with the hood or grille on, so I may just continue with my experiment to see what I come up with. Thor was here yesterday from Kansas and saved me a little experimenting. He quickly pointed out where I was goint to attach the gas lift would be adding a second pivot point. I would have found out quickly that wouldn't have worked.
Looking at the new points for mounting the hood lift (how many different names do you think we can come up with for this thing?), and the amount of clearance from the inline plane,I can see why some rework might be necessary to turn it right side up. It's also obvious why, for the same reason, Wighty put the top hole where he did to maximize clearance. Hopefully my hardware will be in early next week, and I can proceed on the project.
Got one side finished. I'll post some better pics tommorrow of the rectangular tube. Pic 1 is the internally threaded shoulder bolt. As you can see, my lower mount ended up quite lower than wighties...not sure why so much, but doesn't matter. (Edit...whoops, you can't see. see next post for another pic) Since it ended up below the hinge bracket, I wasn't as short on space as I had figured, so could have gotten by with a normal 2" shoulder bolt. or pin.
second pic was locating the down position using the oem spring retainer and pin location. I marked it with masking tape so I could set the hydlaulic lift at this poition when closed. Gotta make sure this one is correct so the hood will close....there's less stroke in these lifts than the oem spring, so the loss has got to come at the open position.
third pic shows the location of the two 1/4 bolts located at the top. Undoing these and the top gas lift ball will allow the unit to be lifted out for easy access to the bottom pin.
fourth pic shows the ball stud with a 5/6-18 thread. I just drilled and tapped the oem bracket.
lower pin location. I'm a little confused as to why I'm so much lower at the bottom. I realize I'm using a longer fitting versus no fitting that wighty used. The top mount should be pretty close to the same.
The bushings on lower pin are some 1" long and 1/2" long 5/16 chrome spacers I had in the shop. That leaves about 1/16 slop for the fitting to move around. I was able to put the unit in my vise holding by the the rectangular tube at the bottom, and with a pipe as leverage, pull the arm down into the closed position. No clearance issues where I have it set in either open or closed positions.
Looks Good Rich! I understand now why you are using the square tubing i didn't grasp the concept at first.(ease of replacement). Do you have the part numbers for the Strut ball end and the ball end stud you used?
I really really like that solution instead of using a threaded stud up there. I am not to concerned with having to replace the gas struts so i am thinking now a conbination of what you have done and what whitey did is going to work for me.
I am going to use the stock pin with delrin spacers and an swivel eye at the bottom and one of those ball studs at the top and i think that is going to work good! It's going to be some time before i can pull my car apart to do the mods but i will get some pics when i do the hinge work.
Your project is looking good Rich, and I can tell that you are having fun with it. Having fun is why we do what we do in building these cars.
Wighty
It has been a fun little project. I got the second side almost done this afternoon. I just have to drill and tap for the two retaining screws. Tommorrow I'll get them painted.I can post some pics and dimensions for the rectangular tubing if anybody wants them.
VW.....I bought the M6 assortment of end fittings. It has everything we need with some leftovers for 12.47. McmasterCarr pn. 9416k95 I had also purchased two extra eyelets because I wasn't sure what dia. pin the ones in the assortment were made for. As it turned out, the ones in the assortment were 5/16. The ball studs have a 5/16-18 thread , btw
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2015-04-08 23:00
It has been a fun little project. I got the second side almost done this afternoon. I just have to drill and tap for the two retaining screws. Tommorrow I'll get them painted.I can post some pics and dimensions for the rectangular tubing if anybody wants them.
VW.....I bought the M6 assortment of end fittings. It has everything we need with some leftovers for 12.47. McmasterCarr pn. 9416k95 I had also purchased two extra eyelets because I wasn't sure what dia. pin the ones in the assortment were made for. As it turned out, the ones in the assortment were 5/16. The ball studs have a 5/16-18 thread , btw
Rich .............. yes , I'd very much like to see pictures and dimensions. I've followed this post/thread very closely and have this question, which maybe answered when you post the finished project pictures,........how and where is the square tube secured to the hinge housing at the bottom end?
Are you going to the Pate Swap meet? Is it,or has it been, a good meet for '57 parts, if you know?
Thanks
John
VW.....before I forget....I misspoke about being able to use a regular pin at the bottom. There is not enough room because that tube needs to slide up and out of the bracket. That's why I went with the internally threaded shoulder bolt to begin with. even a regulat shoulder bolt with a threaded stud on the end would be too long. A 6-32 x 1/4 button head screw and thin washer has a minimal protrusion.
KY...It is not attached at the bottom. after I got it painted I was going to add a band of rubber to prevent posible rattling or movement. There's not a whole lot of space left at the bottom.
That's why I went with the tubing...strong enogh to provide adequate support with just being attached at the top. Btw, I drilled and tapped those two mounting holes on opposite corners of the tubing. I did that so the bottom of the tube wouldn't rotate on a common centerline.
I'll get some pics and dimensions posted later today.
missed one question...yes, I'm going to the Pate swap meet. I go every year. It's probably as good a chance as finding '57 parts as anywhere else(at a swap meet) except the Hershey meet, which I've never been to. It'll be hit or miss as usual for finding '57 stuff....you just have to be persistent when looking for '57 stuff. It'll be about 10 miles, my guess, of walking...it's huge. I bought a near flawless rechromed front bumper there a few years ago from the bumper shop, and last year a really good rechromed grille from them as well.
I'm meeting AcrylicMan/Larry there on Friday.
The best part of the Pate, imo, is the quantity of new part vendors along side the thousands of individuals selling the old stuff.
pics and further info may be delayed a few days...I'm thinking of heading off to Oklahoma City for the nsra show...suppose to be 71 and sunny tommorrow.
edit...change that to...."I'm off for Oklahoma City" Will post on Saturday.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2015-04-09 08:18
missed one question...yes, I'm going to the Pate swap meet. I go every year. It's probably as good a chance as finding '57 parts as anywhere else(at a swap meet) except the Hershey meet, which I've never been to. It'll be hit or miss as usual for finding '57 stuff....you just have to be persistent when looking for '57 stuff. It'll be about 10 miles, my guess, of walking...it's huge. I bought a near flawless rechromed front bumper there a few years ago from the bumper shop, and last year a really good rechromed grille from them as well.
I'm meeting AcrylicMan/Larry there on Friday.
The best part of the Pate, imo, is the quantity of new part vendors along side the thousands of individuals selling the old stuff.
Rich........thanks for the reply. Now, I understand the bottom attachment, or the lack of a bottom attachment
Pictures etc. would be greatly appreciated.
I've gone to the Pate Swap meet many times in the past, but I was looking for '33 Ford parts then.
If you have never been to the NSRA Street Rod Nationals in Louisville, it is a great event. Usually about 10, 000 cars.
John
Finally got back at it. Here's a pic of the tube labeled with dimensions from the bottom. I did it this way because I had cut mine to 8 1/2 long before I realized they were going to be sticking out the bottom. If you cut yours at 9", they'll be closer to flush up top, but either way is ok. I got both painted and installed. If you need anything else, let me know.
To form the side that is angled out, I just put the tube in a vise and used a prybar to bend it out. I then used an adjustible wrench to grab the side and give it the twist it needed. Back and forth a few times, but pretty easy to do.
Don't forget you need one left and one right.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2015-04-12 22:00
Finally got back at it. Here's a pic of the tube labeled with dimensions from the bottom. I did it this way because I had cut mine to 8 1/2 long before I realized they were going to be sticking out the bottom. If you cut yours at 9", they'll be closer to flush up top, but either way is ok. I got both painted and installed. If you need anything else, let me know.
To form the side that is angled out, I just put the tube in a vise and used a prybar to bend it out. I then used an adjustible wrench to grab the side and give it the twist it needed. Back and forth a few times, but pretty easy to do.
Don't forget you need one left and one right.
I now understand what all you have done. Very nice work and great forward thinking on how to fix it down the road.
John
I think I finally got all my parts. Now just need to pull the hood and hinges so I can clean them up and do the install.
My biggest helpful hint would be to make sure you've got full hood closure...with what you've got going here, combining the delrin, like wighty did, with the longer eyelet ends, you may need to drill another 5/16 hole lower in the hinge bracket than the oem to get that closure...you don't want the lift to bottom out before the hood closes all the way.
Also, I'm assuming your plans are to drill the delrin, then cut a slot in the delrin for the eyelet to reach the pin? Or just using the delrin for spacers? just for reference, my spacers were 1"(back), and 1/2" (front)
Either way, the lift at the bottom may need to be closer to the front of the hinge bracket, so you may end up redrilling the hole thu the hinge bracket anyway. Clearance up top gets tight with the new pivot point location, so moving the bottom of the lift closer to the front helps that. Don't try to fit things too tight...that lower pin isn't 90* to the center of the lift, but the hole size in the eyelet is large enough to accomodate that out of square.
Got out side yesterday in between the rain drops and pulled my hood, radiator and hood hinges.
They are a lot less rusty then I thought they would be. I pulled the bottom pin and got the spring out and ground the rivet for the top pin and removed it. I used the factory hole to mount the pivot ball on the arm with a nut and lock washer. I was originally going to use the factory lower pin holes but I scribed a line in the side of the arm before I pulled anything apart and I figured I would use that as a reference to where in needed to be when all mocked up. it was way off so I drilled new holes 1/2" from the bottom of the bracket and 1/2" from the mounting flanges to give enough room for the delrin spacers. This brought the arm almost to the stock position. Hopefully it will be enough when it is all closed up.
I need new mounting hardware for the hood hinge brackets. the factory stuff broke getting it off, I cant seem to find it in any of the catalogs, Anyone know where I can get it?
scribed line
(http://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11118632_10204924658609996_8237098126230613844_n.jpg?oh=aa0ef44c4fdb3f2ca7b7a2e9f5185965&oe=55E1C98C)
side view
(http://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xta1/v/t1.0-9/10731135_10204924658770000_1832196790312470691_n.jpg?oh=f6b738496f981123329cc14503be5c15&oe=55DBBC13&__gda__=1436064094_ae7faa021983a40d1f50a60109d5528b)
flange side
(http://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10425164_10204924658890003_508863322441212355_n.jpg?oh=2e33f551aea90ac51e56349d9b80ce63&oe=55A76D7E)
(http://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10530734_10204924659890028_1842965056482073495_n.jpg?oh=d1f5ffe3931f6079ae81daca9d43b8e2&oe=55D683E1)
Have to work on a better way to cut the delrin spacers
(http://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11072610_10204924660250037_8545495170876177861_n.jpg?oh=fb64e71b18b128ccaee54056dcabab8e&oe=55A8F15A)
Moved pin location
(http://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/11178249_10204924661010056_165556049711573273_n.jpg?oh=3441adf0967c5dd800319aee469ad665&oe=55DC27AE)
(http://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10441375_10204924663850127_4961212113572225971_n.jpg?oh=633d20af974e5b0f4cfefbe65403131f&oe=559805DE)
one side mocked up
(http://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/l/t1.0-9/21743_10204924664010131_1039217534182888662_n.jpg?oh=bb5bc7537b2470615b04b47dc4ef2620&oe=55A959A6)
I may be wrong, but I don't think the sheetmetal clip/nuts are original. I believe the reason for the large suare holes (2 on each bracket, 2 on each side of the firewall) are for caged nuts. That's what I used on mine. I bought a box on ebay a few years ago. I assume that's what you were talking about by "mounting hardware". A good body supply shop should have them. I thought I had most of a whole box of them left, but when I was looking for them for my lower front rocker/fender mount, I only found a half dozen. I'll look again, and let you know if I've got any I can send you if you can't find them.
I recognized that Texas silt, btw.
Quote from: VwDrvFnd on 2015-04-19 12:45
Have to work on a better way to cut the delrin spacers
(http://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/11072610_10204924660250037_8545495170876177861_n.jpg?oh=fb64e71b18b128ccaee54056dcabab8e&oe=55A8F15A)
To cut square and get exact dimensions with tubing or pipe I use a pipe cutter to scribe an indent around the tube/pipe. This provides a prefectly square guild to cut the tube/pipe with a hack saw.
delrin could probably be cut with a chopsaw or table saw. I cut nylon blocks all the time with them. I also cut alot of aluminum. I do always run carbide tipped blades.
You can see the nuts here on the left side of this picture.(http://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11118632_10204924658609996_8237098126230613844_n.jpg?oh=aa0ef44c4fdb3f2ca7b7a2e9f5185965&oe=55E1C98C)
They are square nuts welded to a clip that clips around the flange and thru the hole. The lower holes had bolts thru the flange and into square nuts welded to the core support. The welds snapped when taking the bolts out and i had to use a cresent to hold the nuts to get the bolts out. I am sure i can just get some different nuts for the bottom bolts but would like to use original hardware if i can.
I am no fabricator, I build 3D steel models all day long on the computer but actually getting out in the shop and building stuff, I don't have much experiance and am still learning. That being said I did build a gig so I could hold the delrin centered in the drill press(1" Flat boring bit to make a hole in a piece of 2X4).
I tried using a small hose clamp to cut it squarely with a hacksaw but i still couldnt get it flat!
Others can confirm what was on their cars, but the "clip nuts" you referenced in the above pic are the ones I think are the wrong type and not original, and should be the caged nuts as you can see in my pic. There would be no other reason to have such a large rectangular hole. The cage nuts float so you have some adjustment on the hood hinge bracket. With that said, the ones on the core support should not have been welded in place.
As far as holding the Delrin upright in a drill press, a machinist's v-block would work well.
BTW, I can spare 8 of the caged nuts if you want to go that route..pm me your address and I'll get them in the mail if you want.
Rich Thanks for the offer, i think i found something that will work for me. I am pretty sure my car has never been apart and doesn't show any signs of ever being damaged. I am pretty sure those are what was used from the factory. who knows! :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:
There were so many different factory assembly plants that its impossible to be 100% sure on what is or isn't as delivered. And then there's always ''the guy'' we all know him who has to do something different just because he can but don't confuse him with the guy who has to come up with a quick fix on the line when something doesn't fit quite right.
Zap- :unitedstates:
Went nut & bolt shopping today after work. Hardware guy tells me my bolts are 5/16x24 fine thread. Couldn't find anything in 5/16x24! Not even regular flanged nut! i dont have a thread guage, is there another way to tell if he was right or wrong? my mistake was not physically checking the bolt size myself with there guages.
My take.....If you're not restoring a car back to factory specs, don't worry too much about thread pitch on things like this. Sometimes you have to find the oddball component first (like the caged nuts), then match whatever thread pitch it is with the more commonly found component (bolts). If you don't have a good nut and bolt shop in your town, try Lowes and Home Depot's metal cabinets. Fastenal is good also, but more often than not you can't buy small quantities. I special ordered three or four things from them. I have a harder time because I've replaced everything with stainless when I could.