I took the cover off mine today for the first time I've owned the car and judging by the brownish / orangish slop in their I'd say some moisture has worked it's way inside. Only way I see to do it right would be to remove the column and flush it out. Were these steering boxes packed with grease or oil?
I believe with grease...heavy stuff. And I do not believe you need to take it off and clean it. Flushing it and then slopping new stuff in should be good.
That is what did with both of mine...never had any issues with either one afterward. I still have about 4 gallons left of HEAVY grease in a 5 gallon Atlantic Richfield can...I'll give you some! :003:
Joe? Gunther...?
Quote from: mustang6984 on 2020-11-20 22:43
I believe with grease...heavy stuff. And I do not believe you need to take it off and clean it. Flushing it and then slopping new stuff in should be good.
That is what did with both of mine...never had any issues with either one afterward. I still have about 4 gallons left of HEAVY grease in a 5 gallon Atlantic Richfield can...I'll give you some! It's across the water from you...in Sequim area. (Dungenesss actually) :003:
Joe? Gunther...?
Randy, talk to another Randy, he operates Steering Solutions in Port Kells (Surrey) BC. He did a complete rebuild on the steering box in my 59, and previously the PS box in my 74 F350. Both vehicles drove so much better after he went through them. If you still have the original 57 box, a 58 or 59 is an easy upgrade. I thought my 59 drove OK before I took the steering box to Randy, but once he took it apart , it was evident that 60 years had taken a toll, with pitting on the steering shaft . His work not only fixxed the slop in the box, it also made the steering effort noticably lower.
So...are you saying that the '58/59 boxes are better than the '57'S? When I put mine back together would I be ahead to swap mine out for one of them?s this a direct bolt in?
Hugh, the 58 up boxes are recirculating ball type, while the 57 is still a conventional worm type.
I am really not sure about your recommendation with grease. It will work obvioulsy but I reckon it should rather be a high viscosity grade oil. I will have to check the manuals.
I know that many guys update to the 58 for obvious reasons, but I have to say, the oem steering boxes in both my DR and CS still work nicely and can be adjusted to very little play.
If it was supposed to be oil..then I might have made a mess of mine all those years back! OOPs!
Sounds like a '58 might be the way to go then. Thanks!
If you go to the '58 box, be advised that the '57 horn wire arrangement will not fit the '58 column. John
57 box would use oil, 58 and later use grease. I put a 58 box in mine and it's a world of difference.
Had a look in the repair manual and it uses sae 90w for 1957. I may give steering solutions a call and get a quote on a rebuild. Even if I did locate a 58 steering box it would still have to be gone through. To bad this wasn't closer, it looks like the same box, bolt pattern as mine at a pretty fair price to.
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/pts/d/san-jose-thunderbird-rebuilt-steering/7228088877.html
Quote from: Hoosier Hurricane on 2020-11-21 07:54
If you go to the '58 box, be advised that the '57 horn wire arrangement will not fit the '58 column. John
Good to know...guess if I go that route I will need the horn stuff too then.
hiball...thanks for the info...wonder if I did damage to min e then? OOPs!I never noticed anything...
Quote from: rmk57 on 2020-11-21 11:14
Had a look in the repair manual and it uses sae 90w for 1957. I may give steering solutions a call and get a quote on a rebuild. Even if I did locate a 58 steering box it would still have to be gone through. To bad this wasn't closer, it looks like the same box, bolt pattern as mine at a pretty fair price to.
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/pts/d/san-jose-thunderbird-rebuilt-steering/7228088877.html
Sent you a P.M. about '58's
John
TECH NOTE: If you remove a '57 steering box, prop it up with the steering wheel up. There is no upper seal and though it may take awhile, stinking 90W will be everywhere. You're on notice!
If you find a steering gear with grease in it its because the 90w leaked out and the owner didn't want to reseal the gear POA so they pumped it full of grease, not good especially with ball type gear.
My understanding is the 57 uses 600 W gear oil. Kind of hard to find, but I got mine from Eckler's or some place like that. When I was a teenager working in filling stations, we put grease in all of them. But, I think the heavy gear oil is what is recommended.
[quote - heat up some STP on your wood stove. pour it in , It s the racers edge.
57-59 steering boxes use 90wt gear oil not grease
Welcome to the forum, this post has to be moderator edited as it is incorrect info, but thanks for trying!! See Jim's post 2 below this one.
Rich
If you decide on switching to a '58 gear box, you might call Rob Pipenhagen in Minnesota. He is listed in the Salvage Yard listing here on the Forum. He has 20-25 '58 Fords.
John
Quote from: mbmd57 on 2020-12-24 10:59
57-59 steering boxes use 90wt gear oil not grease
Sorry but thats not correct info. 57 box is not like 58-59. 58-59 is a recirculating ball design and uses grease.
Thanks for the correction, Jim. I thought so, but hadn't paid much attention to steering box discussions because I don't have one, lol. I was waiting for someone to confirm what I thought.
Pulled the 58 steering box off my car, turned it up on the steering wheel and black oil ran out of it. Don't remember what it smelled like...
Very strong possibilities that over 60+ years, some had the wrong lubrication done, particularly considering Ford did a change that I'm guessing not many owners were aware of. Got to remember for the many years these were 100. junkers many drove just to get them around town.
Not to mention what 60+ years of service can do to various fluids. I know my 59s original steering box also oozed out some nasty black goo from the steering column shaft area when the column was removed, and the box tipped over. Similar, but not quite as nasty as the gear oil when I pulled the drain plug out of the rearend. I am guessing it was the original gear oil, it sloooowly seeped out like pudding, and after draining overnight , and pulling the 3rd member out, there was a thick sludge inside the housing still. When Ford built these cars, I doubt that they ever considered some would still be on the road 60 years later, or how certain lubricating fluids would fare in so many years. Not like they specified a lubrication interval for steering boxes, or how you could possibly drain the oil lube.
I took the cover off the steering box and added some solvent. Swished around with a small paint brush and sucked it out with a turkey baster, add more more solvent and repeat. After it it was as clean as was it's going to get, I filled it up with 85-140w. It'll do until I come up with a better solution.
There is (was) an upper seal actually dust and weather shield (B5S 3738-A) used on the 1955-1957 SAGINAW STEERING BOX. Most likely it deteriorated over the years or was destroyed if the inside components wore resulting in steering shaft slop.
There is an aftermarket seal available and was used on all ( not all) SAGINAW boxes of this design up through the GRANADA. Not sure of quality.
CORRECTION - I have entered some incorrect and confusing information during this conversation. Correction(s) in above post highlighted. Hopefully it will all be corrected in POST #27.
...my bad ...
That kinda looks like the seal at the end of my 59s steering column. If it is, it looks more like a seal to keep dirt and water from going into the steering box. On my 59, the top of the box where the long shaft comes out, has a round tower, about 1" tall, that the seal and end of the steering column tube slide over, but it doesn`t actually ride on the steering shaft itself. Unless it is a different style of seal on a 57.
My '64 box kept pushing grease out around the upper shaft. I found the part # was available on one of the Mustang sites for a first gen Mustang. The seal fit like it belonged and stopped the leakage.
Quote from: 59meteor on 2020-12-27 14:53
That kinda looks like the seal at the end of my 59s steering column. If it is, it looks more like a seal to keep dirt and water from going into the steering box. On my 59, the top of the box where the long shaft comes out, has a round tower, about 1" tall, that the seal and end of the steering column tube slide over, but it doesn`t actually ride on the steering shaft itself. Unless it is a different style of seal on a 57.
Correct you are . The seal I showed (B5S 3738-A) is for 1955-57 FORD. It is only a dust shield, not a true seal as the box was not pressurized. What is available now is a repro and cannot be determined if it is a true copy.
The seal you are describing on your 59 is a dust shield also, although it is not showed in use until
1959 but the PN PREFIX indicates a 1959 PN (B9A 3674-A). Now the seal you are describing makes no contact with the steering shaft or could it be worn?
CORRECTION(S) - Shown above in highlighted text.
This is all interesting and confusing. I put in a 58 box and there was no seal. It must have been a later design change in 59 or 60.
Quote from: KULTULZ on 2020-12-29 01:08
Correct you are . The seal I showed (B5S 3738-A) is for 1955-57 FORD. It is only a dust shield, not a true seal as the box was not pressurized. What is available now is a repro and cannot be determined if it is a true copy.
The seal you are describing on your 59 is a dust shield also, although it is not showed in use until 1960 but the PN PREFIX indicates a 1959 PN (B9A 3674-A). Now the seal you are describing makes no contact with the steering shaft or could it be worn?
Yes, the 3674 seal is what i was refering to. But I see no way that it could actually ride on the shaft itself, as the seal slips over the bottom of the stering column tube, and the inside slips over the tower that you can see on the threaded upper adjusting collar that threads into the box. So the steering column tube slides over the tower, to near the bottom, so the seal is almost an inch below the exposed shaft, where it protrudes from the tower. The "tower" i am refering to, can be seen at the top of the 3A670 collar.
And for Hiball , Jim, can`t say for sure on a 58, but I would assume that Ford would have used some form of seal to prevent dust and water from migrating into the steering box, possibly your column had such a seal but over time disintegrated. I have parted out several 59s, and on some of them, the seal was mostly missing, and the remainder fell apart when the column was removed.
Quote from: 59meteor on 2020-12-29 08:29
And for Hiball , Jim, can`t say for sure on a 58, but I would assume that Ford would have used some form of seal to prevent dust and water from migrating into the steering box, possibly your column had such a seal but over time disintegrated. I have parted out several 59s, and on some of them, the seal was mostly missing, and the remainder fell apart when the column was removed.
I'm sure that is probably what happened if there was one originally.
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2020-12-29 07:36
This is all interesting and confusing. I put in a 58 box and there was no seal. It must have been a later design change in 59 or 60.
You are correct. It seems the 1958 did not receive a seal of any type.
It is hard to believe ENGINEERING overlooked this for the 1958 model run. It was corrected in the 1959 model run?
It seems I am the one causing confusion.
Find below the 58 and 59 steering box illustrations from the 1949-1959 FORD CAR MPC (MASTER PARTS CATALOG) Info. Hopefully it will straighten up the confusion I created.
You didn't create the confusion FORD did :003: And I get confused easily :005:
Nah, sometimes I do not fully explain what it is I an trying to convey. It is called a$$-u-me(ing).
I still cannot believe FORD allowed the 58 box to be open. Can you imagine just the road dust/spray?
Thats interesting, but I did notice the Ford diagram shows a clamp around the bottom of the steering column tube, where it slips over the tower, the 59 has the seal, but has no clamp, so maybe (?), if the clamp is tightened enough, it doesn`t need the seal ?
Quote from: 59meteor on 2020-12-29 20:32
Thats interesting, but I did notice the Ford diagram shows a clamp around the bottom of the steering column tube, where it slips over the tower, the 59 has the seal, but has no clamp, so maybe (?), if the clamp is tightened enough, it doesn`t need the seal ?
You're describing 3506 shown on the 1958 Ill?
This is another puzzle. The 3506 is shown only on the 1958 Ill but 1949-59 MPC TEXT shows it used from 1949-1960.
We need a clear photograph of an unmolested early production 1958 steering column or this may be covered in a PRODUCTION SERVICE LETTER of the period. The MPC contradicts itself numerous times but this is not unusual.
When I put in the 58 box I didn't use the 58 column because it was beat up on the turn signal end and was for an auto trans and I can't recall if it had clamp. I used the 57 standard shift column that has the clamp.
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2020-12-30 06:15
When I put in the 58 box I didn't use the 58 column because it was beat up on the turn signal end and was for an auto trans and I can't recall if it had clamp. I used the 57 standard shift column that has the clamp.
... hmmpf ...
So you used the 58 box/shaft in a 57 column? That took care of the horn wiring change didn't it?
Thanks for sharing that as every detail helps.
Quote from: KULTULZ on 2020-12-30 07:01
... hmmpf ...
So you used the 58 box/shaft in a 57 column? That took care of the horn wiring change didn't it?
Thanks for sharing that as every detail helps.
I have all the instructions on how to convert the horn but haven't done it, to old and lazy these days. I have it wired to a push button on the dash for now..
Quote from: KULTULZ on 2020-12-30 01:18
You're describing 3506 shown on the 1958 Ill?
This is another puzzle. The 3506 is shown only on the 1958 Ill but 1949-59 MPC TEXT shows it used from 1949-1960.
We need a clear photograph of an unmolested early production 1958 steering column or this may be covered in a PRODUCTION SERVICE LETTER of the period. The MPC contradicts itself numerous times but this is not unusual.
Yes, 3506 shows a clamp on the 58, that is not present on the 59 picture. At first I thought maybe 3509 was shown to be some type of sleeve or seal on the 58, but I believe that it`s just a cutaway look of the rest of the steering column tube, which carries the same number higher up in the 58 diagram.
Quote from: 59meteor on 2020-12-30 09:17
Yes, 3506 shows a clamp on the 58, that is not present on the 59 picture. At first I thought maybe 3509 was shown to be some type of sleeve or seal on the 58, but I believe that it`s just a cutaway look of the rest of the steering column tube, which carries the same number higher up in the 58 diagram.
That is interesting, I don't remember a clamp on my 58, or possibly it's not a 58 and I have a 59?
My 58 column has a clamp...
I have a complete 58 automatic column and a complete 58 stick column in the building and they both have clamps. I have 4 more 58 columns still in cars outside, but too much snow to check them presently. I thought all the late 50's Fords had the clamps, but maybe cuz I am not really fond of 59's I just have not seen one. Live and learn...
The theory that the clamp supplanted the need for a seal makes sense to me. The column sleeve is a pretty snug fit and with a clamp on a non-pressurized steering box (and gravity) it doesn't appear to be at much risk of leaking upwards.
But, how were 59 column sleeves affixed to the steering gear if they did not have a clamp?
now I cannot sepeak about the 57/8/9 differences, but there are many other steering gearboxes of that era, that do not have a seal on top and columns have clamps or not. German Ford also had the clamp, but no seal whatsoever. Unless the car got in a flood, no water or dust could get in there.
brushwolf, on my 59 Meteor, as well as the 3 different 59s that I have parted out, the bottom of the steering column had a rubber sleeve/seal that fits over the bottom of the tube, with the rubber collar both around the inside and outside of the tube. So when you install the steering column over the steering shaft, the inner section of rubber fits fairly snuggly over the upper tower of the steering box, while the upper section of the tube is attached to the bottom of the steel dashboard with a pair of larges Phillips headed capscrews.
It seems the 58 FORD used the 3506 clamp to secure the 3509 steering tube to the steering box 3A670 adjusting assy. This was FORD but 58 BIRD used a seal as did the 59 FORD/BIRD.
Match the PN's with the earlier ILL's and it will make sense.
Maybe ENGINEERING realized the seal was necessary and added it on 59 production. Even with a clamp, the joint will not keep out humidity, road splash and dust. It is difficult to service the lubricant and FORD wanted a longer service life.
59 used a seal 3674 and no clamp as the 3509 slid over the 3674 insulator and made a tight secure fit.