Guys,
I've had a set of front coil springs that Detroit Eaton made for me last year. These springs suppose to take into consideration having a FE block and air conditioning. I bought a nice internal coil spring compressor from O'Reilly, it's the one with the heavy duty plate.
My question is this. Has anyone replaced the coil springs on a 57 Ford without taking at least one of the ball joints loose. I've heard of some people being able to get the springs out without seperating the A-frames. Can it be done on a 57 Ford. Thanks, Jim
Jim,
I did mine a long time ago. I undid the lower ball joint I think. The floor jack fits on a spot on
the lower A frame where the shock comes through.Worked good for me. Of course the frame
is supported with jackstands. Some guys use a chain thru the coil somehow for safety sake.
Ron
I don't think you can replace the spring without droping the spindle from the ball joint (not safely anyway). It's not a big deal to drop it from the top joint, just support the frame on a jack stand and loosen the upper joint nut but don't remove it completely, give the spindle a good rap with a BFH and it should pop loose. After this, the method that I uses is to remove the shock and replace it with a long piece of all thread with big washers on each end. I then remove the ball joint nut and back off the upper all thread nut and slowly lower the lower aframe and spindle until the spring is free. To replace just install new spring into the pockets, insert the length of all thread and tighten the upper nut to collapse the spring until the upper ball joint nut can be reinstalled. This method is safe (the all thread contains the spring so it can't jump out on you) and easy.
i woulnt even consider tryin it without undoing a balljoint
Guys,
Thanks for the information. I'm on my way out to the hanger now to get started. I'll let you know how it turns out. Jim
Well Guys,
I just spent 8 hrs. changing one spring. That counts running to NAPA once for two new brake hoses, shocks and fitting washers. Now! let me tell you what I found out on changing springs. First of all the new springs were one coil longer than the original spring. I had Eaton make a coil spring that took into consideration the heavier FE block I'm running. Second, there's no way in H _ _ _ you can get the coil spring out or in without an internal spring compressor. I listened to Glen and got the one from O'Rilly, 40 bucks but it's the one with the fork plate and offset hooks. Third, there's no way in h _ _ _ you can get the spring out without taking the top ball joint loose. Forth, the new spring will raise the car off the jack stands if you try to use a floor jack to compress the spring. It could possibly be done with a smaller spring, I don't know. As far as using a threaded rod with big washers that wouldn't have worked in my case, the springs were too long to catch the back lip on the bottom A frame. I expect the other spring to take four hours instead of eight. Thanks guys, Jim
Guys,
Got Ur Done. I didn't take into account that the new springs were harder than the old worn out springs. The rides rough. Each pebble I run over feels like a bolder and the front end is up in the air about three inches more than it was. Hopefully after I drive it for a while it'll come down some ( ya right ). Tomorrow I might put the air shocks back on the rear. It needs to come up about 1 1/2 inches. I hope I've not ruined my ride. I believe a new set of springs with the original height would have been better. The old springs were just worn out. I'm thinking about taking them out and cutting them to the original size. That'd probably be better than putting air shocks on the rear. Jim PS I got a lot of looks driving home today, it does look racey I must admit.
Jim, I may be wrong, and the folks at Eatons could tell you,but I don't think the longer lenth of the spring was due to ordering a hevier duty spring. I believe that is a function of the "wire" size and/or heat treat, and all the new springs are the same length. Your new ones are longer than the old ones because as you stated, the old ones were worn out. I don't think cutting your spring down will change the ride softness that much, and I was told cutting a spring down will change the steering geometry. I also ordered my springs from Eatons, but previously owning a car with a too-heavy suspension, was paranoid about ordering one too stiff for the ride I wanted, so i just ordered a set for the 6 cylinder setup, figuring I could beef it up if I had too with shocks. Also, if your really that disapointed in the ride, I'd call Eatons and tell them. They may be willing to exchange for a lighter spring.
Rich,
I'm going to call them and see what I need to do. The car sets up about 3" to high, the ride is like a dump truck and the top of the wheels are tilted in pronouncely. When I ordered the springs I told him I wanted to set level and have the springs heavy enough to hold the 390 engine and air conditioning. What I have now is unuseable. Jim
Guys,
I called Mike at Eaton Springs and he's going to send me another set of springs. I just need to let him know how how much too tall it is. Nice guy to do business with. Jim
Good to hear. Eatons and the guys at Inline Tube are the most efficient and knowledgeable companies i've dealt with for anything.
jim, on thinking about this further, with all the radical changes the springs made, I'm wondering if you don't have something else going on causing the problem. Are you sure they sent springs for the correct vehicle? I'm assuming you assembled correctly, but I'll ask anyways...are you sure the end of the spring which is flat is in the up position, and that the spring insulator is seated correctly(also at the top)and that the spring is seated all the way up. Are the springs the same diameter as the originals(an indication of wrong spring sent to you) which would cause a seating problem if they were not? are the springs rotated correctly to that the end of the coil is nesting in the recess in the lower control arm? Also, I,m not sure I understood what you were saying about all the measurement stuff, but I think I know what you meant> I think what you were saying was a 3" drop at the wheel centerline does not correspond to a 3" drop at the point where you want to measure level...and your right. I would also measure at the rocker panels. If your really good at trig you could determine your answer mathmatically. Your triangle(s) would be established by the wheelbase,and the proposed 3" drop being the long and short sides adjacent to the 90 deg. angle, and a segment of the hypotenuse would be determined by the length of the rockers. and I probably just made a simple problem complicated. Just a wild guess, but i'm thinking a 3" drop at the springs should get you about a 2" drop along the rockers. good luck
Rich,
Everything is seated. The springs are just stiff and too long. The coils flat area is at top etc. As far as the trig goes. ( Asq + Bsq = Csq .) Been there, done that. I'm just jacking it up by the hog head until its level and figuring the distance I had to jack up the rear to make it level and using that figure to tell him how much the front end has to come down. Jim
Guys,
For everyone's edification. The original springs on my car should be 16 1/8" long. The ones I took out of my car was 15 3/8" long. That means they shrunk 3/4". The new springs Eaton is sending me is 14 7/8" long. They claim it will work and the ride will be pleasurable. We'll see. Jim
Well Guys,
The verdict is in, Mike at Eaton Detroit don't know s _ _ _ about a 57 Ford coil spring. The first springs he sent me were too long and put the car at an undrivable height and the second set he sent me was too short and the ride height is the same as the worn out springs. I'm taking pain killers now from changing the coil springs twice. My feet and legs feel like they are about to fall off. Needless to say I'm not taking the front end apart again. At least I got a chance to take the the A frames down to bare metal and repaint them and I've got new ball joints, shocks and brake lines. I've also become a f _ _ _ _ _ _ genous at taking the Cragar multi lug wheel on and off the car. This whole fiasco would be funny if it weren't for the pain in my legs and feet. A big fat 62 year old man can't get up and down on concrete like a younger man can. I'm probably being too harsh on Mike at Eaton Detroit, he tried, and he talked a good line. But, I never intended to pay for good conversation, I wanted coil springs that would make the car level again. Jim
Ouch! Don't ya hate giving someone a good referal and then shortly after finding out someone else is having major problems with them? Aside from the height problem,did the new springs give you back the ride you wanted?
Rich,
Yes I do hate that. They made my rear springs and I really liked them. The ride with the new springs will be good I'm sure, I bounced the front end up and down and it seemed normal to soft. With the big torsion bar I have I expect a good ride. I haven't had it out on the road yet. It's been raining here and I don't want to wipe off the car yet. I'm still feeling pain in my legs.
Back to Eaton. After 30 years of working on CNC electronics I've got a suspicious nature when it comes to getting what you pay for. When I talked to Mike he informed me the original spring had a free height of 16 1/8". I took his word for it but this morning I looked the spring specs up in my Ford manual. The biggest spring they list for a 57 with air conditioning is @ 15 1/2" free height with a load weight of @ 2300 lbs. The shocker was the second set of springs he sent me hadn't been ground level at the top, meaning the spring didn't contact the top mount all the way around. I questioned him about this and he said the first set of springs he sent me was specially made and the second set was the way all springs are made now. The second set of springs he sent me were 14 3/4" free height but said the extra stiffness made up for the height. I really believe the first set of springs were made wrong with an attemp to have it correct. I believe the second set was sent to me with no regard to it being a replacement or having the correct height. I've decided to keep the first set of springs that are too long, I'll cut some of the coil off with a grinding blade and try on my own to get the ride height I wanted. But, it's going to have to wait until my legs don't hurt. I figure for $200.00 I'll keep the springs. I'd rather try myself to make it right as ask them to do it again. Jim
P. S. The height of the car is approximately 1" too low in front. I can live with that for awhile since the old set was at least 2" or more too low. I had three spring spacers in each side just to get the height I have now with the new springs.
I would think that the rear springs will settle a inch or so after you start driving your car. My 57 rear springs settled about 3/4 of an inch after about 6 months.
Lou,
The rear springs were put on a couple years ago. They have settled as much as they're going too. I've got to say these new front springs are 30% nicer riding. I changed all the ball joints and put new shocks on it and the front end is tight and rides really great. I like the springs, I just wish the the front end was about an 1 1/2" higher. Jim
Hi Jim
Its campy with a query,the y block is only 25 lbs.lighter than the 390.Why did you need a different spring?If yours was bad why not just get a 57 replacement spring? Campy
Campy,
Nice to hear from you, Happy Birthday and hope the weather in Ms is good for you. Campy, when it comes to those springs I must admit I didn't do my research before I started. I just figured I'd let Eaton help guide me. I told them I wanted springs to hold up the 390 with AC. They just over compensated. The second set of springs they sent me has really worked out well though. Once I put my tool box in the trunk and filled it with gas it came out OK.
Jim