This probably falls into the original vs. custom discussion we were having regarding options, but here's my next challenge. I went to the 96 Mustang steering wheel/column to get as many controls as I could off the dash and console. I want to use the wiper controls that are now on the column, but to do so the guys at Ron Francis wiring tell me I can only do that if I am using the 96/97 Mustang wiper motor. I looked at one in a wrecking yard and I think it can be done. The motor will have to be located inside the cowl and I also want to replace the pully system with hard rods. I like the idea of both those changes. What I need to find out from a running Mustang is what the angle of sweep is as compared to the 57.If both cars are close enough in that sweep, I'll try to do it. I don't imagine the Mustang wiper motor has any way to control the angle of sweep. Does anyone have a 96 or 97 Mustang they can measure the sweep angle for me?
You also need to see if the wiper motor crank goes around and around, or back and forth. Mark
I WASN'T EVEN AWARE THAT SOME WENT TOTALLY AROUND, THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP. i ALSO NEED TO FIND OUT IF THE PARK POSITION OF THE BLADES IS LOWER THAN THE NORMAL WIPE.
I think they all rotate 360 degrees. It's only the early ones that swing back and forth, like a vacuum unit.
Boat wiper motors work the old way,plus you can change the sweep angle and the park position.
I'll have to get a really good look at in in a wrecking yard. The 360 thing actually shouldn't be a problem as I was figuring on using the complete setup, and if it is 360 I'm also thinking that would mean the park maybe is a mechanical stop. I'm also figuring on a little sheetmetal work in the cowl and wiper shaft areas and maybe some custom wiper arms if I can't change the larger mustang shafts to the 57 ford size.
RICH, A GOOD FIX FOR YOUR PROBLEM, FIND A 58 FORD AND CUT THE MOUNTING AREA OUT OF THE COWL UNDER THE DASH, GRAFT THAT INTO YOUR 57 COWL, THE 58 MOUNTS UNDER THE DASH AND USE A ARM SYSTEM AND NOT CABLES. THEN YOU CAN BUY A ELECTRIC WIPER THAT WILL FIT. I USED A 61 FORD. THEN I MODIFIED MY DEFROSTER TUBES TO CLEAR THE WIPER MOTOR. THIS ALSO CLEANES UP UNDER THE HOOD AREA,BY REMOVING THE WIPER. I WILL TRY TO POST SOME PICTURES. TOM
Tom..Great info. I wasn't aware the 58 was different. I'll look for a 58. Sounds like one of those things one should grab as you find em as there aren't many 58's out there. My floor pan came from a 58 that was here locally in a junk yard for 20 years but after they cut the floorpan out fo me they crushed it. I almost felt guilty.However, the 58 doesn't solve the problem with my original reason for doing this, which was to be able to use the wiper control handle on the steering wheel/column I'm using, requiring the use (according to Ron Francis) of the mustang wiper ass'y. Any electrical geniuses out there that can confirm what they are telling me?
Rick look at the wiper motor for the 96. I believe there will 3 - 4 wires only. One will be a ground or a common, one will be the park signal and two will be speed. The thing you need to make the older motor run with the new switch is the control box the switch feeds. This box does the intermittent function as well as speed/park functions by controlling a couple of relays. Go to a friendly dealership and ask to look at their service manuals for the year and look at the wiring diagrams, they will help you figure out what wires will need to be hooked up to make the motor run.
Not all electric motors were roundy round, some were back and forth like the vacumn. 5, 6 and 7 Chevy is a good example. Those motors do bolt on and use the stock 57 Ford wiper control switch.
A third option is to go with an aftermarket system that operats much like the systems used in British sports cars. The motor drove a cable in a steel tube (much like brake lines) to a small gear box for each wiper (3 of them on MGBs) back and forth to give the sweep. Orienting the gear boxs could give you left to right, right to left, out to in or in to out. They are in various car mags and work really well. I have used them in two cars I built for customers and they are still humming along.
Bill, if I understand you correctly, I can do the 58 arm setup with a 61 wiper motor, as Tom suggested, if the 61 motor uses the same number of wires the 96 does, and all I'll need is the control box that the switch (control lever on my mustang steering column) feeds? I guess I'm not sure which motor you meant when you said "the thing I need to make the old motor run", I assumed you were refering to tom's setup. If that's the case you couldn't ask for a better solution.
There have been a set of 58 arms and bezels on ebay for a couple of months, I thought he was a bit pricey at 50$ I found a guy parting out a 58, and got them for 25$ Then I bought an aftermarket electric motor, works and fits nice. The 58 defroster duct was made from stiff cardboard, we tuned it up with a little fiberglas repair, and seamsealer. Mark
As stated the 57 chevy motor will bolt right up & operate from the original knob & just a a 1 wire hookup like on my 57 custom, DON :unitedstates: :icon_bigsmurf:
Tom, does the 58 setup in your car with the 61 motor go back and forth or 360? I'm still not sure what Bill was telling me in his post, if he doesn't see this I'll send him a p.m.
Rich, if you are trying to use stock57 or 58 arms and stock bezels, your motor needs to go back n/forth. If you are modifying the entire cowl, linkage and arm assembly then you can go round & round. I just went through this with my 58, and bought 58 stuff for my 57. Mark
Rich you are on the right track. The control box will have outputs to the wiper motor. The 61 will have (I've not looked at one so this is an educated guess) wires to give complete circuits for two speeds, park and of course the return. You need to determine if the return is fed by 12V or goes to ground. My guess is it is 12V and the two speed wires and the park go to ground in the stock 61 setup. The late model control box outputs will need to be modified to comply with the wires from the motor.
I know this may sound like mud but it is hard to explain without being able to draw pictures and get feedback from you and not knowing your depth of knowledge of control circuits and electronics. I'll be happy to try a different approach if I confused you, just let me know.
Bill: My knowledge of circuits is zero at this point. I had planned on either doing a lot of reading or taking a course at the local college on automotive wiring before I installed my new wiring. So,yes, I'm totally confused on your explanation, but that's ok at this point because of where I am on the build. I am trying to get all the bodywork on the car finished and painted by fall and I was thinking ahead to the cowl area and what modifications I would be doing, thus the wiper problem. At this point I just need to determine what can be wired to the mustang wiper control, so I don't do a lot of accomodating sheetmetal work only to figure out later it wouldn't work electrically. Your input has been a ton of help in getting me to that point. I'll try to get Tom to verify the wiring on the 61 motor. Thanks again
I finally got out to a wrecking yard to relook at the 96 mustang wiper setup yesterday, and the mustang wiper motor actually has 6 wires going to it. This may be due the number of intermittent speed choices, but that's just a guess. Does that info change any of the suggestions given in above posts by Bill (FordBlueBlood)
Rich I'll have to look at a schematic to figure the hook up. Might be the one I have from my 90 T-Bird SC will give me an idea. I'll check it out and get back to you.
I'm still persuing the idea of adapting the 96 Mustang wiper system so I can just plug it into my 96 Mustang steering wheel. I need to compare the angle of sweep on the two cars to make sure they are close enough. If anyone out there with an up and running 57 could measure the angle of sweep for me I'd sure appreciate it. I measured the sweep angle on a Mustang yesterday..used a clear protractor, lined up the bottom of the arm with 0 on the protractor with the center of protractor eyeballed on center of wiper pivot, and had the lady turn on the wipers.(Mustang was about 73 degrees). Also, if you could, check to see if both sides have the same sweep angle. Thanks...Rich
ok, this is what I ended up with and it's working out great. i opted for the 97 Mustang wiper motor to match up with the 97 Mustang steering wheel/wiper switch. As Bill said,I also got the wiper control module and of course the pivot/linkage assy. I mounted the motor inside the cowl under the drainage channel with the motor shaft coming up thru the channel. I removed the pulley system from the 57 pivots/bezels and cut off the excess casting and attached the mustang solid bar that connects the linkage to the pivot. (The knurled head that clocks the wiper blades goes all the way thru the casting and presses into the pully).I simply replaced the pully with the bar. I then cut the too-short mustang u shaped linkage in the middle and welded 1/4-20 s.s. nuts on where they were cut and used all-thread to make and adjust the length(the inside dimension of the u-shaped linkage is 1/4" so the all-thread just fits in snugly)and connected the linkage from motor to the drivers side pivot
The bar that connects the linkage to the motor is shorter than the bar that connects the linkage to the pivots, so the fact that the motor rotates 360 is ok, because the motor will pass its crest and start going back before the pivot gets to it's crest.
The next thing to do is to connect linkage from the left pivot to the right pivot, however it can't be direct, as on the Mustang, because the 57's rotate from the outside inward on both sides. This will be corrected by using a bar,somewhere in the middle, also longer than the motor bar,which pivots in the middle, and the linkages connected on opposite ends. This will reverse the direction of the linkage from push to pull.
The angle of sweep I was asking about last week can be adjusted by altering the length of the bars that connect the linkage to the motor and/or pivots
This is the point I was at last week when I got my finger caught in a hydralic clamp at work and striiped the flesh of the end of a finger. Had surgery yesterday to repair, and hopefully will be back at it in a week or so. only so much you can do with one hand in a splint.
Also...I got all of the electrical diagrams for the circuitry as well as connector pin charts for the switch,control module, and motor. I talked to Ron Francis Wiring to reconfirm that I had everything I need and it was doable and it seems like it's now a no problem project. He said they normally just supply a power wire for the wipers, but they could make me a mini harness using the old connectors.
Working this out also gets me windshield washer switch, hazzard switch, turn signals, and hi/lo beam headlight switch which are all on the same unit. :burnout: armadillo:
Still have a splint on left hand, but was able to finally get some work done on the wiper system. My wife bought me a new cannon sx20is to replace the one that got stolen a few months ago...so I got pics...
first pic shows modified drain channel and "direction-changer" pivot bar welded to cowl. wiper motor will be accessable from under dash...a pain in the butt but (butt but???)I'd rather that than not having a smooth firewall. wiper pivot is the modified 57 with all the pulley crap cut off
Got it all in and tweeked yesterday. Everything was pretty close as I had it, but "close" wasn't working! almost everything had to be moved up, down in or out a 1/16th or so. Biggest problem was with the drivers side pivot because it's tucked up so close to the corner of the cowl, it was difficult getting the 110 degree or so sweep without banging the pivot bar against the cowl on both sides, but I got it. One advantage I got cutting the big hole in the firewall to facilitate the instalation was that it also gave me access to 100% of the inside cowl areas I couldn't reach before for rust treatment and old caulking removal...and that's been my project today...need to get done so I can por15 and recaulk and start welding up all my unused firewall holes....rich
gettin' her done...inside cowl all sealed,caulked por-15'd and undercoated. Outside of firewall has all holes and cavities welded flush with sheetmetal, smoothed and epoxy primed. Next weekend I'll get a few coats of high-build on it to fill sanding scratches, at the same time I put a final coat of high build on the drivers side rear quarter.This just leaves me with the hood, trunk lid, and drivers front fender and she's ready for paint. The light at the end of the tunnel is getting brighter!!!
Question for Bill (Ford Blue Blood) or anyone else that may know the answer...I suspect I will have to re-time the park position of the wiper arms by altering the arm that is attached to the wiper motor. I didn't think to look at the position of the arm when I pulled it from the mustang(was more than likely in park position). Is there an easier way to do it...such as with the electronics?
Rich check your PM's. Do not have the difinitive answer you are looking for, I believe the park function is mechanical and you may have to "play" with the timing.
Some aluminum channel I'm playing with to further clean up the firewall. It'll hid the ugly spotwelded rib and may even give me a place to run a few wires. If it works out, I'll sand the iridite finish off and polish it, and add a strip along the front to cover the detents formed into the channel. I had been looking for an extrusion for a few weeks with no luck. I was at Harbor freight passing by the clamps when a 60" bar clamp caught my eye. I now have a 12" bar clamp and an extrusion for my car for $13. I was hoping to find a nicely rounded shape, but this will work if I have room when the engine goes in.