Bros:
I've been exploring the various options open to us as 57 Ford Fans.
Thus far, IMHO we have several options.
1. Rewire from scratch ourselves
2. Aftermarket, Ron Francis Wire Work appears to be an excellent options with kits for 57 Fords.
3. Restoration, Narraganset Restorations of RI makes a complete wiring harness for 57 Ford restoration which can be modified by them to accommodate different drive train combinations, for example FE engine installations. Their total package encompasses 21 separate correct color coded harnesses, cost is $1, 581.99 which includes S&H and Insurance. Yes you can buy it a harness at a time.
I would encourage others who've used other aftermarket modern rewiring kits to post their comments as well. I am getting ready to order the Ron Francis kit and will post comments and Pics as the installation progresses.
BuBBa
I have installed several RF kits and they are outstanding in every respect. The directions are fool proof, he warranties the kits and has an outstanding tech line. There are less expensive kits out there and they are good, just the RF is configured to run from the end user (head lights for example) back to the panel or not. Others have the wires fastened to the panel and can provide confusion to the rookie.
Bubba,you will be very happy with the Ron Francis kit.I have used his kits in the last two projects that i have done.If you can read you can wire your car with his kit,very good directions and pictures to go by,and a great help line to walk you thru if you come across something your not sure on.They are a couple other kits out there for a little less money,but for the money i would go with the Ron Francis.Also all of his wireing is labed every foot,which will be real handy in the future if you have problems and have to trace something down.My custom 300 i am building will defintely have a Ron Francis in it, Tarheel 57 :unitedstates:
Coincedentally I just received my Ron Francis catalog in the mail yesterday...There's like a whole tech manual packed with tips in this catalog.I'm looking forward to finding a few hours to sit down and read it. Bubba, which kit did you deceide on? I'm going with their access 24/7. Rich
Rich, Tarheel, Blue Blood:
Yes I am definitely going with the 24/7 kit.
I've already ordered the RF Grounding Kit and will put that in in a few days if I can escape the Dreaded Honey Do's. Over the years I 've used a couple of RF kits and I too think they are the best. Blue Blood is also right on, I like the feature of being able to "Back Wire" from the end user to the main panel.
Their Tech Support is really excellent. While we're on topic does anyone know what size hole the ignition switch uses? Its a piece of info I've got to include in the order and the car is at my Bro's place right now. Also trying to decide which steering column and length?? to go with [Flaming river, Idit]. Pretty much decided on an internally regulated 3 wire alternator from Powermaster Performance, RF reccommends that brand, although I am tempted to use the heavy duty TransPo 911-02R external regulator I have which allows you to up the voltage via a potentiometer from inside the car.
BuBBa
Hello
I just purchased a 57 Fairlane 500 2 DR (63A body), 292 engine - I have now discovered one of the wires (ignition related) coming from the firewall into the motor compartment was fried and insulation was burned off.. it was covered by tape so I did not see it immediately. The car still starts and runs etc.
I am a rookie here, but I am a pretty good DIY guy - but now I am looking for any guidance from those in this forum with a lot more experience in restorations to see if I should attempt installing a new dash wire harness.. I am inclined to go that way since then I know eveything is new, is this a major undertaking.. days, weeks??, does the dash have to come completely off or can it be done from underdash.. Should I just repair the damaged wire?
I am reading your comments about RH kits (I contacted him for feedback on which harness) and they sound like the way to go.. I am not looking to add any new items so I plan to use the same systems as exist now..if I read correctly these RH kits start in engine compartment (from end-user ie headlights etc) and go back into the car.... am I correct?
If anyone can give me their comments on what I am considering to do here it will be very much appreicated.
Thanks
Peter
wiring my car is somethingI haven't done yet and still need to bone up on the process, but I can answer a few of your questions.
First off, since your previous post was about aluminum radiators, I'm assuming your not restoring the car back to original, which would require a restoration kit as Bubba talked about a few posts up. That's good, because it will save you money and give you a lot more options.
secondly, no your dash won't have to come off
thirdly, I'm not sure who the RH you were refering to is. I'll assume you meant RF(Ron Francis).I've never heard a negative about them. They offer 4 different series of harnesses. Some are prewired at the fuse panel with all of the wires attached. You locate the panel where you want it and start feeding the identified wiring to it's end use. Other systems they offer do not have the wiring preattached, so you start at the user and work your way back to the fuse panel and attach it ( not sure why you work backwards..may be obvious when you start to do it. I'm guessing it's easier to make a neat instalation this way).
There is not a huge difference in pricing on these different panels they offer, I'd suggest choosing one that will give you options available down the road if you change your mind on what you want to do to your car. I also suggest calling for a catalog from Ron Francis..I had mine in a few days and it is loaded with info to help you with your decision.
One suggestion Ron Francis makes that I thought was really good was wiring your car yourself rather than having someone do it for you . It will gain you familiarity with your vehicle which will help down the road is locating problems that might arise.
Rich
Thank you Rich for the info, that gives me some added confidence, RF as you properly corrected my typo mentions using an alternator, this car came with a generator, is a change advisable, what benefits will I have.. I did see Concours offers a drop in kit using existing brackets.. can you comment on ease of this install?
Thanks again I already see a great benefit will be had from this forum!
Peter
Two ways to look at generator vs. alternator. As some guys have said on other posts, the generator has done it's job well for a gazillion years and they can be rebuilt locally almost anywhere still inexpensively. At the other end of the spectrum, the whole world changed to alternators 50+ years ago because they are more effecient. A generator will not recharge a dead battery at idle speed...an alt. will and can produce much higher amperage. Any tech stuff, such as what else will need to be changed will be better answered by some of the other guys, like Ford Blue Blood, who are really knowledgible with the electric stuff.
Hi Rich
thanks again.
I think for the moment I will stay with the generator.. however I understand the potential on alternator options..
...since you have been so helpful can you tell me if there are any tricks to getting the dash removed.. I know I don't need to do it for the rewire, but I have found some bulbs that need to be replaced.. I see several screws above the dash just over the speedometer (of course mine are all missing??) so any guidance to help a newbee in remving my dash will be appreciated. I have the service manual and I have not found any details for the dash removal.
Thanks again
I'm beginning to think you are using the term "dash" to mean the speedo/gage cluster and not actually the full dashboard. ??? If that is the case, it has been years since I pulled mine out...I'll have to dig into my boxes of parts I'm not reusing and take a look at the cluster. I'll get back to you on it.
The dash comes out fairly easy, under the inside windshield trim is a row of screws -5/16 socket, save these for last. Up by the kick panels ( Top ) there is a small angle bracket on both sides that you need to unbolt. You also need to unbolt the steering column up above your knees. Should come out, you also need to remove the defroster duct. If your stuff is finish painted, be very carefull-have a helper. There is two screws, one each side just after the 90 degree bend by the doors. I put my dash up on the bench, checked all the wiring, bulbs, switches ect. Check it out, I posted a link to it. The guy who painted it had some runs in the clear, the car is black, interior black, to much black, so I painted it gold to match the gold inlay on the side chrome. Mark
http://img15.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=1094093.jpg (http://img15.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=1094093.jpg)
If it is the cluster only that you are looking to pull out, in addition to the two screws that you found to be missing, there should be 4 nuts that have to be removed from up under the dash, (but if you can reach these you can also reach the sockets that hold the bulbs alot easier imho.) photo is back side of cluster I just took so you can see what you'll be feeling for. It's my guess as I mentioned, that the 4 studs you see along the bottom go thru the dash and are what holds it on.
Thanks Guys
very useful
I think I know what I am looking for - Rich the cluster is what I was referring to for my immediate situation but Marks help on full dash and pictures may be very helpful later on..
BTW...nice dash Mark paint job looks great, mine is red but also was not done that well so I am thinking of a redo.... question about the 2 chrome surround frames - (where the knobs are for lights, wiper etc) they look very nice - all chrome plated, mine are painted on inside and just have chrome on outer most part of rectangle frame, did you redo yours? How?, do they come out from the back, I like the all chrome look, the painted interior area on mine is scratched, peeling must be from fingers and constant use...also my plastic speedo dial like the one you have laying on desk is worn and needs help, did you buy a new plastic dialor repaint silver?, same with the the chrome decoration is that your paint work to have it looking so new,
I appreciate your help.
Peter
Peter, I had several dashboards and alot of parts to draw from. So I tried to pick a common color in the light bar area, then I removed the chrome trim pieces and cleaned them with a SOS pad, worked pretty well. If you look at the bottom of the picture, I have a matching 58 speedo bezell, I was blowing the dust off of it with an air gun, not holding on tightly enough- it shot out of my hands and broke the corner off. :dumbass::deadhorse: I have since glued it back together, but I since have bought another on ebay. Mark
Peter, sorry I forgot to answer all of your questions, the speedo bezel was quite worn so I taped off the lens area and sprayed it with chrome in a can. Not alot of options here, you can buy a repro 57 lens, But the parts in the picture are 58. By the way if anyone has a 58 glove box door with the trim carried onto it, I am interested in that piece. Thanks, Mark
Peter...if you check around you'll find repops of the speedo plastic. try dennis carpenter or concours or maybe www.classicautoparts.com in ok. city. I've seen it in one of those. Glad to hear you were refering to the cluster, I just didn't want to believe you were going to pull the dash to replace a bulb.(lol)
Hi again
thank you for the added details, one thing I ran into when I was poking around to figure how the dash comes off are the knobs, is there some trick or tool I need? I am not sure if they are just frozen and need a good yank or there is some trick, There are no set screws which was my 1st thought.
Let me know how you got yours off Mark.
Also do you have any suggestions on where I might get a replacement temperature gauge, the car was running hot since we got it, I had the radiator changed, still too hot, changed to a 6 blade fan, and the gauge read read very hot, well it seems the gauge may be reading incorrectly - my radiator mechanic took temp readings in the radiator after 1/2 hr idling and it is only running at around 180 deg. They also changed temp sending unit, no affect on gauge reading. I certainly can adjust to knowing how the gauge reads but if I pull the cluster out and I can get a new one in place I believe that would be the final solution.
Thanks again for your help.
pt be sure to check the output of the voltage "chopper" that feeds the instruments. If it is high you will get high readings. It is mounted on the back side of the cluster and looks like a small relay with two terminals on it. It is metal with a fiber backing and mounts to the cluster with one screw. Putting a digital VOM on it will give you a rapid on/off reading or may make the meter "blink", putting an old analog meter on it should give you about 5 V. This little regulator feeds the gas gauge as well.
Thank you.
I will be sure to do that when I get the cluster off.
Sometimes a little patience or reading a shop manual on the 57/ 58 , goes a long way when taking apart a dash or any other part you are not familiar with. I roughed up a 57 light switch trying to take the knob and shaft out, only to find out in the shop manual that you push a spring loaded button on top of the light switch, and the knob/ stem pulls right out. Most of the knobs are part of a cable that have a nut behind the chrome bezel, so go slow, and be carefull when you remove stuff. And if you still can't get it, your 57 ford family is here to help you. Good luck, have fun, Mark
Mark
thank you, and to others that have replied to my questions many thanks- so much knowledge and help- very nice, BTW I do have the shop manual and the trim manual as well but I must have skimmed over this refernce so thanks for getting me on point and saving me a binch of head scratching.
I know have a lot to learn and to discover on my car, but it is exciting time for me any the 57 friends here will make it a fun project rather than a torturous ordeal!!!
Stay tuned I am sure more detours may be in front of me
Peter
Quote from: Ford Blue blood on 2010-07-15 08:54
pt be sure to check the output of the voltage "chopper" that feeds the instruments. If it is high you will get high readings. It is mounted on the back side of the cluster and looks like a small relay with two terminals on it. It is metal with a fiber backing and mounts to the cluster with one screw. Putting a digital VOM on it will give you a rapid on/off reading or may make the meter "blink", putting an old analog meter on it should give you about 5 V. This little regulator feeds the gas gauge as well.
if the dash voltage regulater [chopper]is not working properly,the gas gauge would be reading incorrectly also.
Yes it too would read high....
Mark one quick question, what "chrome paint " did you use to refurb your bezels... the chrome painst I am familiar with look more silvery than chrome..
thanks
I took my dash apart in the car. Windshield was out etc at the
time. If you remove the cluster, radio, glove box etc everything
is right there. I bought new speedo bezel, had the bezels
around the knobs rechromed. Rechromed all the stuff that I
had done in the 60's. Basically re did it like I had it in the 60's.
Painted dash while windshield was removed. It'll be much
easier once you start on it :005: I chose to rewire mine 1 wire at a time.
Ron
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/shopratwoody/my57021.jpg)
Peter, I'm not at the shop- but the chrome in a can was most likely rustoleum or what ever was off the shelf. And I'll restate this, the only reason I did that was because I have a 58 dash, no repros available that I know of. If you have a 57 dash, bite the bullet and get the repro stuff. And on the subject of dash knobs, I believe the 57-58 wiper knob has a setscrew which I installed on the switch with my electric wiper motor setup. Mark
Bros:
After talking with the folks at Ron Francis, I am having second thoughts about selecting the 24/7 panel vs. the Express panel. The 24/7 panel has all of the circuits pre-terminated at the panel and some of the circuits already have the connectors installed. For example, since the kit is universal in nature, they provide an alternator lead that is pre-terminated for your specified ALT, which means you could have a coil of extra length wire or two under the hood. Additionally, they recommend that the 24/7 only be mounted in one of two locations, left kick panel or upper left firewall. The Express panel can be mounted anywhere. With the Express panel you have 6 fewer fused circuits 18 vs. 24 but you have the ability to run the wires from the distant device you're hooking up back to the panel then terminate at the panel. If you need the extra 6 fused circuits you could always add a supplemental fuse block and save some bucks. The Tech at RF said it [Express Panel] does make for a cleaner, neater installation. Decisions, Decisions :003:
The 24/7 panel is $520 for a Ford installation the Express panel is $449.
Just my $.02 worth
BuBBa
Bros:
After talking with the folks at Ron Francis, I am having second thoughts about selecting the 24/7 panel vs. the Express panel. The 24/7 panel has all of the circuits pre-terminated at the panel and some of the circuits already have the connectors installed. For example, since the kit is universal in nature, they provide an alternator lead that is pre-terminated for your specified ALT, which means you could have a coil of extra length wire or two under the hood. Additionally, they recommend that the 24/7 only be mounted in one of two locations, left kick panel or upper left firewall. The Express panel can be mounted anywhere. With the Express panel you have 6 fewer fused circuits 18 vs. 24 but you have the ability to run the wires from the distant device you're hooking up back to the panel then terminate at the panel. If you need the extra 6 fused circuits you could always add a supplemental fuse block and save some bucks. The Tech at RF said it [Express Panel] does make for a cleaner, neater installation. Decisions, Decisions :003:
The 24/7 panel is $520 for a Ford installation the Express panel is $449.
Just my $.02 worth
BuBBa