Was at a street rod shop a few days back picking up some truck panels to be louvered and there was an incredible chopped,channeled and sectioned 40 Ford coupe. It was there for finish body work and paint. The C C & S had been done by someone else just needed some minor rework to make it truly solid. Anyway the bill for body work and paint is going to be in the $100,000- range. After spending over 2 weeks in the paint booth its now on the rotisserie getting rubbed out. Believe me "incredible" doesn't describe it.
Truly out of my ballpark or even frame of reference. Having lived with and settled for paint by the Earl and home jobs. You know the classic 20-20 jobs that look good at 20 miles per hour and 20 feet away.
So curious just how much are you willing to pay for paint? :102:
Zapato,
The guy that's doing the 63 Galaxie I have is the same guy that took 20K from me for doing all the bodywork (frame-off) and paint. Don't get me wrong the total cost was over 32K for parts + labor. That's not counting the money I've invested in Drive train and interior. It's expensive to get a good job. Jerry's Classic cars would charge a lot more to restore one.
I'm paying him $7000 for doing a frame-on no rust 63 Galaxie. But, it'll be block sanded and it'll be every bit as nice a car as my 57 when he's done. The body work is what cost and good body panels aren't cheap. The only reason a person would restore a car is to be able to call it his. If you buy it that way it's still somebody elses and usually it will change hands quiet a bit. We''ve got so much wrapped up in restoring that our cars end up being worth half as much as we've got invested in them. So, if money is a primary issue you need to learn to live with what you got for awhile or look for one already restored.
That's just my way of thinking to be able to console myself for ALL THIS MONEY I'VE GOT INVESTED IN THIS _ _ _ _ _ _ CAR. LOL
Zapato;
I had my 57 in for body and paint back in 1999 to 2000. The shop had my car for almost a year and I had to ride them hard to get the job done. They would bring in other cars, start them and back burner my car. The estimate was 7k and to this day I'm not happy with the work. I was going to take my car back but decided not to as I found out that most, it not all were junkees. WOW MAN, look at all the colors man...LOL Anyway, Bob Lee has been getting estimates over the last month and the lowest he said was $8,500. I will send him a note and have him chime in on this topic.
Good Luck.
Rick
57 Tudor
Zapato,
I forgot to add something to the previous e-mail. The guy that did the 57 worked on it for 3 1/2 months. 2 1/2 of those months he worked on no other car besides mine. That's what happens when you buy a very little rust vehicle off Ebay. Well, I really can't say that because the 63 came off Ebay and I saw that car in shiney metal and there wasn't any rust. Jim
I'm not saying that paint job wasn't worth every penny he's paying. Just believe its truly out of reach for most guys. Like I said its incredible to see the car all blown apart and every inch inside and out has been masterfully massaged. Just as I said out of my realm. :unitedstates:
just my two cent worth but if you call it yours then maybe you do it your self, then the only person to be pissed at the price, or the quality is yourself.
:grandpaSimpson:
Guys,
My apology for making the remark about restoring a car youself to be able to call it yours. Although I didn't do the body work or the paint I did hand weave the reproduction seat covers on my homemade loom. LOL Jim
Zap...great topic..I can't resist the urge to write an editorial! "PAINT JOB": The big factor depending on what you have to start with is getting it ready for paint. 6 years ago when my wife talked me in to moving with her to Texas, where I didn't want to be, it was all about retiring and "fixin' up" my 57. My initial plan was to keep it a driver and fix it up as I went along. I quickly realized that wasn't going to be happening as there was no way I could do it right without total disassembly. My thoughts then were along the line of a really nice daily driver. It was my first build, and I had no clue what I was getting into with the rust problem, or for that matter the costs involved. I had originally thought 15 or 20 grand spread over 2 or 3 years or so...I could handle that and I'd have a really neat ride. I started stripping areas of the car and ordering panels as I went, thinking I would have a body shop do the panel replacement for me. Then I went out and started talking to guys about the costs of getting it done. THE RUDE AWAKENING: 3 grand to replace rear quarter panels if it didn't need any "inside work"... and he assured me it would, not including cost of panels..... 12 grand for paint at another shop highly recommended in the area. ( I wanted to bring them the car primed and ready for paint, they said they would only do it if I brought them the car in bare metal).I'm thinking I need floorboards, rockers, front fender work and who knows what else at this point. I've got to re-evaluate my plans! THE NEXT LEVEL: ok, if the car is going to get done it's going to have to be all me..I can do body work and paint from my younger days' experience, but I've got to learn to weld. (I'm running out of space in this little reply box..maybe this is why some guys are pasting their replies..hmmm)
Sorry Zap..I kinda expanded your topic into overall costs and affordability of getting the bodies finished. Anyway...at some point I evolved from a wanting a good daily driver to getting it as perfect as I could, so 5 years later this is where I am at: Everything on the car is being replaced or redone. Every spot on the car that had more than surface rust has been cut out and replaced.The car was totally stripped to bare metal..even areas like under the package tray and inside the roof, dash board, etc. Every metal component is, or will be, stripped to bare metal including heater ducts, inside door panels and rear side panels,brackets,hinges, even seat components. Everything has been stripped mechanically by hand or blasted and refinished. All caulking has been dug out and replaced. I have spent countless hours eliminating body seams, smoothing factory wrinkles and wavyness from areas like the door jambs, trunk rain gutter, roof drip rails straightened, wheel well flairs. I have spent countless hours restoring stainless. Every screw has been replaced with new (mostly stainless where posible)all rubber, plastic, glass components are being replaced with new. The car has been totally coated with por 15 on the underside and inside. The floorboards inside have been por-15'd, por-15 primer, black enamel, black spatter paint and clearcoated. Within a month the car will be ready for paint except for one rocker area I have to go back and redo (originally good enough for daily driver, but now won't satisfy my 'quest' for getting as perfect as I can). Maybe I got carried away but one thing I won't be doing when the car is done is thinking I wished I had done a better job on some area.
So...where was I going with all this...costs and affordability. If you want it right it's going to cost either in dollars or labor and dollars. I'm with you Zap...having it done for me is totally out of the question. I didn't work my retirement out as well as Jim apparently did, and in fact I have been working about 30 hours a week to pay for my project, so forking over 20k to have my car done is not an option, and besides,for me, if I won the lotto, the first thing I would do is build a working garage so I could do this stuff a little easier. The self satisfacion I have gotten from doing this project myself is almost indescribable. The one thing I would change if I knew what I know now...I would have spent the 1500, or what ever it is now, to have the body tanked for stripping.
As far as my costs go for just refinishing..I've got boxes of receipts I'm affraid to add up but I'll guestimate. Believe it or not, I'll bet I have at least 7-800 in abrasives alone. por-15 products: 5-600, primers: 800.,undercoatings: 300.,caulking and fillers 400.,misc (rattle cans,etc)500.Adding these up is about 3k-3400 and there are probably a dozen things I'm not including, and I havent purchased the paint and clearcoat for the body yet. That will probably be another about 1k additional.
Is 10-12k for a "good" paint job unreasonable? imho I don't think so...I just can't afford it.
ps. I just went back and read all this stuff I wrote this morning...got long winded again guys...sorry
Rich
forgot the single stage for the frame and undercarriage I have bought(300.) and blasting media (200). That brings the totals up for material in the end to almost 5k! With the materials costs and the enormous amount of labor it's no wonder the shops charge what they do.
I gotta go to work to make some money for my final paint! later. Rich
Bottom line...the cost is inmaterial....every time my wife complains about a couple of bucks for parts or material I remind her that I could be dropping 75 - 100 every weekend on the large pasture with funny sticks with flags poking up...(sorry to the golf guys). Yes we all have budget restrictions and have to learn to live in them. I have over the years learned to do most all my own work, it didn't take long to figure out you can put a butt load of material on the floor for the cost of one hours labor! You know what it is supposed to look like when finished, just keep after it until it is right. Really the only way to "break even" with a classic is fall into it or do your own work! I now after 40 + years of playing with cars have a shop, nice compressor, paint guns, hand tools, plasma cutter and MIG (Daytona deal in 1996) and heat wrenches and fastly approaching the age of needing help finishening projects waiting in line. This is the first car I built that had the advantage of the shop, all previous cars were built and completed out doors
Bill, your absolutly right about the cost being immaterial. In my above post when I said I evolved to wanting to get my car as perfect as I could something else changed.....I discovered it was no longer about the car, it was about ME. It was about how well I could do it, how much I enjoyed going off on weekends to swap meets and car shows,working on something I enjoy doing instead of having to. I still hate having to fix my daily driver when it needs it, but my '57...I look forward to sweating for 8 hours in 100 degree temps of freezing my ass off in the winter...go figure...When it's done I'll have something I can be proud of(or cry alot), but on second thought it will probably be one of those projects that's never quite done...always something to improve...but that'll be ok too.
Guys,
This has been a pretty good topic. Gives you an idea of other peoples approch to restoring their dream car. My approach was to do what I could and do it right. What I couldn't do right I'd go to work, make money and pay someone that could do it right. I accomplished more than what I originally intended with the 57 when I won the Ford Nationals at Carlisle this year. I choose to invest in a mechanically sound and cosmetically nice 57 Ford rather than go out and buy a new car. I drive this car every day I can, putting about 15K on it each year. Having money invested in it is the reason I drive it every day. I never could afford to put hard earned money in something that could only be used when the sun shined. Most of the people I show against use thier classic once a week going to a car show. As for me I've driven my 57 a thousand miles to put it on a drag strip in Gulfport, put the luggage back in the trunk and drove it back home.
I was getting gas in Alabama and an older local man walked all around the car and stopped at the trunk and just starred at the license plate, walked over to me and said, you know whats the nicest thing about this car. I said what. he said, it's here.
How much money you invest in a paint job, drive train or interior has nothing to do with what you want to accomplish with your restoration. Just so long as you're satisfied with the result. Jim
have to add my 2 cents. reading all the info from all u guys, boils down to what u can afford, how much u know, and what u don't know, pay to have someone else do it for u, luckly some of us know quite a bit and can do most of our own work, and then theres somne of us that are getting to old to do anything any more, so we have to pay, so far i'm not one of those yet, thanks guys, i felt like i was being left out and had to join in. jerry
Zapato:
What a great topic and outstanding responses. Rick indicated that I'm in the process of getting bids for doing the paint on my 57. I've had the car for 12 years now and it had just been painted before I bought it. I have no idea what kind of surface preparation was done before it was painted, but it has held up pretty well. That being said I'm starting to see some bubbles forming in the lower rocker panels by the wheel wells and some minor problems where the roof meets the front windshield. I don't have the skills or available space to tackle the job as some of you have done. So I'm out shopping for a decent job, but not for a garage queen or "Riddler" quality show car. What I'm intending to do is take the car to the upholstery shop that did my interior 6 years ago and have them remove the entire interior and refurbish what the 6 years of wear and tear from driving the car to and from the beach (loaded with surfboards & wet suits), to the drags a few times, to work on occasion and to 20 to 30 car shows a year. Then the car will go to the paint shop where the front clip and all trim will be removed, the car will then come home and I'll pull the radiator, engine & transmission and bag the wiring then trailer the car back to the paint shop for body work and the paint job. It won't be a frame off restoration nor will it be media blasted. The bids I've received for the body & paint go from a low of $9,000 to a high of $12,000. All of them contingent on how much body rust, etc. is found during the block sanding. It could go substantially higher. None of the above includes having the bumpers, grill and all the stainless rehabilitated.
It probably won't end up perfect, but the shop I'll be using has had cars in just about every hod rod rod magazine on the market. Plus he comes highly recommended by a friend in whom I place a good deal of trust. We'll see. I'm looking forward to the project.
I think it also boils down to is how much your going to spend on a paint job on a given car. Somebody
may spend $30,000 on paint and body on Boss 429 Mustang but could you justify spending the same
amount on a run of the mill 302 coupe ?
The car's I am about to show are not 57 Fords but the pictures are just to show a little of what goes into Paint and Body repairs....My own cars are Fords and 55 & 56 & 57's are where my dreams are...The paint and body work is same idea on the different brands..I have been doing this work for just shy of fifty years...
(http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab260/oldcarnut/Album%20number%202/IMG_1441.jpg)
(http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab260/oldcarnut/Album%20number%202/IMG_1443.jpg)
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Taking pictures of how the car is before it is disassembled can save a lot of work after and fix problems long before the assembly process
(http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab260/oldcarnut/Album%20number%202/IMG_1453.jpg)
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Body mounts in the order they came out of the vehicle
(http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab260/oldcarnut/Album%20number%202/IMG_1554.jpg)
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The car is a 59 Chrysler 300...I lifted it off the frame and put it on my rotisserie in an eight foot ceiling and I was able to rotate the car in the eight foot high ceiling..
(http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab260/oldcarnut/Album%20number%202/IMG_1560.jpg)
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This is the frame with running gear all done up and ready for the body...
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I saved as much of the original sound deadner that I could..
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Car goes away for all the items that need to be done before paint is applied to minimize any damage that may happen
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Back for final block sand and paint
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This is a condensed version of all that goes into a frame off paint job...I posted this just to kind of show a little of what goes into a fixer upper....
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(http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab260/oldcarnut/Album%20number%202/IMG_6500-1.jpg)
(http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab260/oldcarnut/Album%20number%202/IMG_6503-1.jpg)
(http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab260/oldcarnut/Album%20number%202/IMG_6511.jpg)
(http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab260/oldcarnut/Album%20number%202/IMG_6520.jpg)
(http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab260/oldcarnut/Album%20number%202/IMG_9183.jpg)
I hope you have enjoyed this little pictorial...Sorry it not of a 57 Ford...I hope to do my 57 Skyliner in the next year or so...
i have seen some cars that people have paid the big money for the body and paint work,and thought to my self that i could do a better job.AND I AM NOT A BODY MAN!!.so i am going to do as much of the body work,paint as i can. then i will know what is under the paint,as some of the supposed good body men around here are real good at laying the "mud" on[bondo]
Quote from: Ford_Fellow on 2010-09-09 23:07
The car's I am about to show are not 57 Fords but the pictures are just to show a little of what goes into Paint and Body repairs....My own cars are Fords and 55 & 56 & 57's are where my dreams are...The paint and body work is same idea on the different brands..I have been doing this work for just shy of fifty years...
Nice pictorial, thank you. What stripping method do you use?
Quote from: cool57 on 2010-09-10 06:41
Nice pictorial, thank you. What stripping method do you use?
On a car that is completley stripped out I will sand blast the inner parts door frames and around the window openings and trunk openings and inside the trunk and underbelly...NOT the outside skin...I will use an eight inch pad with 80 grit on a polisher type angle grinder...The polisher type is designed for slower speed..When you are striping a car with the original lacquer on it if it gets hot it will just melt into your sanding disc... ..so I do not heat things up...I will use paint remover only in places where it does not get into places you can not get rid of it...I do not get a car body shell dipped because if you are not able to get rid of all the acids they use to clean they can resurface and ruin your paint work...The 55 Chev I did not take off the frame I sanded all the paint off and it took forever it seemed to do in the trunk and around all the inners. The Chrysler I took off the frame and sandblasted the inner stuctures and eadges and was much quicker and better time and quality wise...The sand will get into everything so is nice on the rotisserie to blow it out with the car in different positions...All the sand must be blown out or will come out of somewhere and get into your paint...
I will only sandblast a car myself as done wrong it WILL RUIN a car....
Hi Guys, most of you have seen the pics I have posted on my 57, I am more then happy with my paint job, all the rust was removed, base coat clear coat, plus the shop is going to color sand and buff it out and it cost me $5750.00.I know I got a good deal , I got 3 estimates and they were all around that price, but i am not sure if they all woud of done as good of job. I bet 95% of us like our classics not for how much the paint job is but the nostalga of something we had when we were younger, you can only afford what you can afford , that is why I think the rat rod thing is so popular because when we were kids making $1.00 an hour that is all we could afford to do!
Except for the fact they are chevies (lol), great layout ford fellow! Thanks. I have a question...I am planning on two toning my car, and additionally it will have graphics (flames? I haven't decided for sure), so I have decided to do the final paint with the car assembled. My plans are to do the firewall,cowl and jambs, the inside of the doors hood and trunk and then assemble it for the final adjustments, blocking and paint. I was planning on using a tinted sealer before the basecoat, but now I'm wondering about that overspay getting into the jambs, etc. causing a blending problem. Do you use tinted sealers? How can that problem be avoided? I appreciate your input. Rich
Rich if you have striped all the old paint off the outside skin or if you have primed the complete car with a quality primer that the basecoat will not reactivate then you do not need a sealer...I do not want to get into brand names but there is what you call tint-able primers and also called value shade primers. In other words you can purchase the primer you want in the base color that you need so the proper background shade is there to give you the shade of color you are supposed to have..When I mix my base the formula will tell me what shade of primer to use like a white will be value shade 1 and black will be value shade 7 ...Clear as mud...yup yup yup....
Reason for the chev and mopar is something has to pay the freight around here..
Unless you are a very practiced person at assembling a car after painting I recommend to have all your panels on the car and the alignment work done...It takes time but on a restore you should prefit all your items before you paint including bumpers so that when it comes time to assemble you have all the proper clips bolts and hardware so that on assembly it goes smooth and you are just concerned with care....Tapeing of sharp and cushioning products on the edges or where ever needed are a good thing...watch to see problem area's when doing your trial fit before paint...
There is a masking material that you can put into door eages and trunk eadges that is a real help in blocking off the paint entering the jams..It is a round foam with one sticky eadge..An excelent masking job needs to be done to get the result...and a little bit of very fine grit sanding in the jam if needed in the clearcoat to achieve the look you desire..
Here are a couple of pictures of stuff out back as me personal endeavor's are Ford and Merc...
(http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab260/oldcarnut/IMG_2110.jpg)
(http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab260/oldcarnut/IMG_2115.jpg)
(http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab260/oldcarnut/bluecar.jpg)
(http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab260/oldcarnut/IM000416-1.jpg)
(http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab260/oldcarnut/IM000420-1.jpg)
Awesome collection...like your dogs too. That's not southern cal is it...Oregon?
I'm guessing interior of B.C or Alberta. Does Southern California get that kind of snow?
My location is Prince George British Columbia Canada...fifty miles off the center of British Columbia...
GREAT THREAD!!
I am with Rich, there is just something very special and very rewarding about doing as much of the work on your ride as you can. Another great benefit second only to the satisfaction is the great people we meet who share a common interest in 57 Fords and all things automobile. I like to think of myself as a hands on guy, but I know there are things I just won't be able to do single handed. My three boys are scattered to the four winds, but there's something about a bunch of us old farts [my apologies to anyone under 40 :003:] getting together to work on one another's old iron and sitting around afterwards over a few brewski's swapping tall tales about how fast we used to be... Having someone else do a restoration or restomod for you is great my hats off to those who can afford it but there's just something about being able to say "oh that I did it myself" I remember the satisfaction I got when I rewired my first Ford, a 41 Business Coupe, that turn of the key, push of the starter button and that roar to life, WOW now that WAS a rush!!! Join a local car club, you will be surprised as i was as to how many folks are willing to roll up their sleeves and help you out!
Lastly I want to thank all of you on this site for answering my dumb questions and sharing a love of 57 Fords and other Old Iron!
Thanks Bros!
BuBBa
Bubba,
I agree. I've always enjoyed doing all I can by myself. I've painted
my 57 a couple times through the years. Before the Black I did
it with Red Imron. Sure held up well. This time around I built my
own engine, completely rewired it (without a pre made kit). Welded
in the new floors in the bed etc. Cut out the bulkead and repaired it.
Did all the prep work (longboard etc.) Shot the interior, jambs,
inside the box and everything under the hood both sides while
hung up. Have COPD so didn't shoot the ext myself. Paid a shop
to shoot ext. I furnished the paint and paid them 1000.00.
It wasn't any better than I could have done, but it was done.
Paid another 700.00 to color sand and buff. They did good.
Brought it home and put it all back together again :003: It's all
fun!
Ron