Guys,
I'm sitting here wondering what to do next and I thought I'd see if you guys would co-operate with me and we'll see who's got the oldest and newest 57 Ford on the website by vin plate dates. Mine is 27J, that's the 27th day of Sept. 1956. I'm sure James and the website will donate two one week paid holidays to Las Vegas for the oldest and newest. Maybe I should talk to James about that first. Jim
In late 1956 Look or Life magazine did a story on a new 57 Ford (58B) being shipped to the American embassy in Moscow, I have the data plate information on that car. It's build date was 14J, has serial number 100001, at Marwar, NJ. I do not think this was the first car built as after the line is set up 10 of each model was built at a very slow pace to work out any problems in production, this would have taked place in late August or the first week of September.
As for the cars I've owned the oldest one was a 63B with a 25K build date , assembled at Somerville, MA.
Mine is sort of early, but I can't look at data plate until tomorrow...
Lou,
While I've got you on the phone let me ask you a question. Did the San Jose assembly plant give a serial number of D7RV103794 to indicate it was the 3794th car to come off it's assembly line, while the Dallas assembley plant gave it's 3794th car off the assembly line serial number D7DV103784. If this is true, that would mean that two cars could theorically have the same build dates ( say 27J ) and the same consecutive number ( say 103794 ).
Am I correct in assuming this is how the Vin number on 57 Fords are determined. Jim
D7DV103784 and D7RV103784 would be the 3784th car built in their respective plants, however Dallas had more production so the build date would not be the same. Another factor is when the order was received the build date was scheduled, this was dependent on if and when all the parts and accessories would be available to fill the order.
Lou: well here I am in a mass of confusion again. I thought I had my data plate all sorted out. I have the style of plate that is the second one shown on the www.1957ford.com website. It's the plate with the embossed edge and black paint coming inward around the rivet holes on the sides. Comparing my info with the one that is shown, in some places where the example is shown, they show letters where mine show numbers??? my serial number is A7RG-165806 and my production code is 3D730015D. I thought that gave me build info of april 3rd,1957 in San Jose. Am I correct? also on the 1957 ford website they title my data plate as the early style,but april wouldn't be an early build???
ok, i don't how to read the vin#, heres mine, C7MC-138635, 76B-GJ-AC-22B-852
D
Rich, in fact there are 3 styles of data plates used on 57 Fords, the background is what is different. (more patend numbers different placing of the Ford logo etc) some of this is due to different suppliers of the blank plates. It seems that all the plates started off the same at all plants but somewhere around the first week of April 1957 the plates were changed and depending on how many of the old style plates were still on hand as supplies of of the old style plates ran out the new one came on line. The new plates (which there are 2 styles) did away with the production code and substituted a trans and axle code in it's place. It seems that San Jose didn't change over until about May 1. (Dallas changed around April 1, Louisville didn't change until mid May) So yes you and anyone else with a production code has a early style data plate.
Gerald; C7MC-138635, 76B-GJ-AC-22B-852
C engine=292
7 year = 1957
M assy plant = Memphis
C base body style = Convertible
138635 unit number = 38635 1957 Ford car built at Memphis
76B Model = Fairlane 500 convertible
GJ paint = Cumberland Green & Willow Green
AC soft trim = White & green vinyl
22B build date = February 22, 1957
852 production code = This meant different things at different plants, I don't know it's meaning at Memphis
1st, thanks to LOU for telling me when how etc the conv was built, now for some comments, i thought a 312 was standard for the conv????????????, could this have been a special order since its orig motor was a 292????????????, and does this because its not a orig motor change the value of the car???????????, thanks Jerry
Jerry,
I can answer this one for you. The 312 was an option on all cars. You paid extra for it. I've seen convertables with 6 cylinders in them. I don't know the statistics but I'd bet most 57 Fords had something in them besides a 312.
As to your car having a 312 engine in it you should know a few things already. 1. The car came with a 292 cu. in. engine. 2. The only way to know if it's a 312 engine is to pull the oil pan and see what's stamped on the bearing caps. Alot of people look at the transmission end of the crank for a dimple. But, it's been proven there's 312 cranks without that dimple. 3. The engine could have everything on it stamped ECZ and it could still be the 292 block it came with. Jim
HI GANG, can't read it but mine is 7MG180119, SMURFEE :icon_bigsmurf: :unitedstates:
Jim:
You are correct, my son's convertible is an A car. Has a 390/4 speed now. John
Guys,
Thanks to Lou I've replaced some misconceptions about Vin numbers with facts now. Originally I thought my car was the 3794th 57 Ford made in that year. That not being the case the date of projected assembly ( 27J ) doesn't mean it was actually built that day. The information ( 103794 and 27J ) are just indications of build date.
Another thing that I'd really like to know about my car is the emblem on the glove box. The Special Thunderbird emblem we know was put on the E and F code cars in 1957. I saw one of these emblems go on ebay for $600 dollars. I looked up the guy that won the bid, emailed him and asked why that emblem was so important to him. He was restoring a E code Ranchero and someone confiscated the emblem before he got the car. He told me I wouldn't see that emblem for sale for another 10 years.
My car came with that emblem and it was a 312 with just a 4 barrel. I know the emblem came on the car because I was able to get in contact with every person that owned the car from 1970 until I purchased it. They all remember the emblem and the guy that had it in 1974 sent me the original owners manual to the car. He had liked the car so much he kept the owners manual and thought I should have it now. Some people have told me that the emblem was put on the first 1500 cars that came off the assembley line that had the 312, 4 barrel and dual exhaust.
I know that the first printed brochure ( 8/56 ) titled " A new kind of Ford for '57 " had a picture of a blue dashboard on the back. That picture had a Special Thunderbird emblem on the glove box. I don't believe the first E or F code car came off any assembly line that early in production. All the brochures printed after 8/56 had the same blue dash without that emblem. That would tend to give credance to the 1500 theory but I met a guy at a car show with a high assembly number 57 that had the emblem and his car wasn't an E or F code. Soooo, I'd really like to know the history of the emblem. Jim
The build date on my wagon is 14F built in Los Angeles Ca
We recently bought a Ranch Wagon C7PR174645 Model 58A Build date 12G. If I understand this right this puts this into July and closer to the end of the production year.
Hogwagon,
The 12th of July should make it a new car ( as far as 57s go ). They had to shut down I'd think to retool in August. The Tbirds I heard went on into December of 57. Jim
Smurfree, Production eneded with 185305 so your car was one of the last built a Memphis, however I do not have any build dates after 175053. I would like the data plate info from your car for my collection. If you rather not share it then please send me your build date ..Lou
7MG180119
7 model year = 1957
M assy plant = Menphis, TN
G base body = Custom & Custom 300
180119 = the 80119 1957 Ford car built at Memphis.
Well, if I am decoding my 57's Data Plate accurately Serial # A7LG200668, Date 27W I believe my 57 may be one of the youngest 57's still around. Using John Gambel's Data Plate information, my 57 was produced on September 27, 1957 and was #147 from the end of the production run done at the Long Beach, CA assembly plant. Therefore, it was probably completed on the last day of production of the 1957 Fords at Long Beach.
She started out life as a Colonial White, 6 cyl, 3-speed stick with 3.70:1 rear end gears. The only thing remaining of the original drive train is the 3.70 gears, they were not replaced when I rebuilt the car in 2003-04 (the Ford mechanic rebuilding the rear end said that the established pattern on the gears was OK and they were well seasoned).
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob,
That is remarkable. I had no idea they would make the 57 that far into the year. That means the you car was assembled while the 58s were being built. Other than the T-Bird I wouldn't have thunk it. Jim
The V8 emblem on thousands of different 1957 Ford Model glove box door had nothing to do with E or F code cars. Most of these Code type cars did NOT have the emblem. The Emblem could be found on all 23 Models rather it be a 6 cyl or any V8 engine. There is NO for sure reason why, where, when. Thanks John at www.1957ford.com
Guys,
There's a 57 Fairlane on Ebay now with the Vin number D7NT100651. That means it's the 651st car produced at the Norfolk plant. And guess what, it's got the Special emblem on the gloove box too. Jim
Hi, It was quite cold in Minn today but I went out to look at the data plate on my 57. This is an early car with the early data plate. This car was ordered for the dealers wife, but a good customer saw it and bought it. I am the second owner of this car. The serial is D7PV100321, Body63A Color YE2, Trim AT, Production Code 13J40628 or B, kinda hard to read. That makes the date 13 Sept 1956. The car has early features such as the PS cyl, different ash tray, and trim around the radio, also canister oil filter. Other options not on the data plate include padded dash&visors, PS, T&C radio, and backup lights. The car also has the special emblem on the glove box door. Brad
Brad,
You have got the exact car I have only mine was built on the 27th of Sept. 1956. My color YE2, trim AT and the car had the same 56 power steering ram, ashtray that went straight back in the dash and options yours had along with the little Special bird on the glove box. My data plate was D7RV103794.
You've got to have a car that was built the first day of production. Jim
John,
Let me get this right. Ford Motor Company had some company make these Thunderbird Emblems with the word Special written on it for the 1957 model year only. Then, they sent them out each of the assembly plants with the instructions to randomly drill extra holes in some of the glove boxes, insert the emblems and slap them on any vehicle they chose thoughout the year with no reguard to rime or reason.
Between you and Lou we learn a lot from you're experiance and knowledge. But, do you realize how unreasonable the above paragraph sounds. In effect that was what your previous post suggested. If you say those emblems came on 23 different models including any engine displacement I've got to believe you. But, I'm telling you, it's difficult. Jim
Guys,
Here's an emblem off a 57 Ford with a 292 engine and an emblem off of my car with the 312. I didn't know they even made two different emblems. I can understand how these emblems graced the cars with the above engines installed. But that don't explain how they would end up on a 6 cylinder car. Jim
ok, if any ones been keeping up, whos got the oldest??????????????
Jerry,
So far it looks like Brad has a car that was possiblly built on the first day of production.
Guys,
In my quest to find the history behind the Thunderbird Emblem gracing the glove boxes of some of the early cars produced in 1957, I found an artical in a Va. newspaper about a man that worked for Ford Motor Company in the Norfolf Assembly plant. His name is James Holt and he lives in Zuni, Va. I called and talked to him last week. He started working at the Norfolk assembly plant in 1952 at the age of 17. He retired from the Norfolk assembly plant in 2001 after 49 yrs of service. He told me that he's restored a lot of older Ford classics and he is considered knowledgeable about their history. He seemed more alert than I do.
When I questioned him about the Thunderbird Emblem and why it was put on the early cars and not all the cars through the entire year he just laughed and said " thats an easy one, we just ran out of them and if there wasn't anything to replace it with it didn't go on the cars." He said if one assembly plant ran out of emblems that didn't mean another assembly plant ran out at the same time. But, when they ran out, they just didn't use them anymore.
James told me that in general there was a misconception by the average person of how cars are assembled. He told me that whatever it took to keep the line running they did it. If that meant replacing some parts with items not meant for that vehicle it was used anyway to keep the line running. In other words, they weren't meticulous when they assembled them, they just assembled them to keep the line running.
Wildhog brought up a good point when he said the glove boxes were stamped and thus a specific time must have been established to discontinue the emblems use. But, after talking to James I'd think that if they had a stamped glove box and a 6 cylinder car came down the line that needed a glove box that color, they just slapped it on.
James is going to research the 1957 Thunderbird emblem further for me. He claims to have documented information on just the kind of things I was questioning him about. I'll give him another few weeks and call him back. My conclusion to the question is that they started out with the same intentions of indicating different V8 engines the same way they did in 1956 and 1958, they just ran out of emblems. I now believe that John Gambill is closer to the answer than me and a lot of other guys were about the Emblem. I think putting the emblem on cars started out with rime and reason and the realitity of how cars are actually assembled negated that rime and reason after a couple months. Jim
Bros:
For what its worth My 63A was built in Norfolk, VA with the number 148101.
Couldn't help but notice there aren't many cars listed in this thread having been butil in the Ole Dominion. From what I've been able to unearth the car was always registered in VA.
BuBBA
Update,
I talked with James Holt again yesterday. He's waiting for information from a guy in Az. about the Thunderbird Emblems. It seems that the people he knew that worked on the Trim Line at the Assembly Plant have already went to the Great Assembly Plant in the sky. But, he still knows of a person in Az. that can shed more light on the 1957 Emblems.
I told him that my biggest concern was not that they ran out of emblems, I can understand that. But why they would run out of emblems so early. To only have enough emblems for two months out of the twelve month product run seems like gross incompetence. That apparent fact that they ran out of emblems so early in itself would give more credance to the idea that they stopped using the emblem at a specific time and for a specific reason.
This will hopefully be the last post I make on this thread until I can get more and better information. Like Lou said, this kind of knowledge is probably useless and boring to a lot of people. Jim
But Jim having a head full of usless trivia is really kool!
Jim, this is not boring, this is one of the best tread ever :001:. It's very interesting to learn about the story behind the ashtray, glovebox door and so on. Hopefully there is many more stories to come. I love the :unitedstates: and our 57 Fords. Thank you from Norway :001:
we could talk engines and sheet metal all day, but imho we'd all be bored before long. It's all this trivia stuff about the cars and THEIR OWNERS that make this website so interesting, and a good place for of us old guys who need something to keep our minds busy for a few minutes while we are resting our butts. Apparently I rest alot more than most with my 630 posts in a year and a half! Rich
ford talks about alot of the changes in the service bulletins.a lot of interesting stuff in them.if you people would like,as i get time i could post some of it,if there is enough interest.let me know.as far as oldest 57,in canada they did not put date codes with the serial number plate.and in my case they did not bring the rancheros out till february 57,and am told you could not buy one till march.that may be why ford of canada only made about 860 ford and meteor rancheros
Gary...good to see you posting again...I for one would love to see some service bulletins as I would think most of the guys. Have you had a chance to check your Ranchero for damage from the portable garage collapse? Rich
just saw your other post..hope you've seen all the damage and there's no more hiding. That's disheartning...even small damage really sucks but it could have been worse I guess.
Quote from: Ford Blue blood on 2011-02-06 09:33
But Jim having a head full of useless trivia is really kool!
Have to agree, have spent my life filling my head with useless trivia, never made a penny on any of it .Did win a few bar bets back in my drinking days am sure lost a few of those nuggets however by killing off a few brain cells with alcohol.
Zap- :005: