Guys,
I was setting the Secondary's on my 4V this morning and it tore out my differential. I was trying different secondary springs to see if I could get the secondarys to open and each time I tried something different I'd go out and run it through the first three gears with my foot on the floor. A lot of tire squealling but what the heck. Well, I figured out what was wrong with my 4V. The gas pedal throw wasn't enough to take the mechanical lock off the secondary's so the secondarys couldn't kick in with vacuum. I fixed that. I increased the throw on the linkage and went out and tried it again. I always start my car off from a roll because the tires will go up in smoke if I nail it from a dead stop. I let it roll out at little and nailed it. This time instead of the tires squealling a little, the tires dug in. The front of the car went up and I could tell I was in for a ride different from the previous runs. Sure enough it was different. About the time the front end stabalized where you could tell it was going to stay I heard a big bang. The motor raced and I shifted into second and let out on the clutch. The car wasn't pulling itself. I coasted about an 1/4 of a mile, up a little hill and into a driveway on the hill. I coasted a quarter mile and up a little hill from that launch. What got me it didn't break when I nailed it. It waited until I was almost ready to shift into second. Oh yes, I found out my car will pull 5000 rpm out of a couple 54 primary jets. If I get it fixed I'll shift at 4800 though. The pressure of my back against the seat started lightning up around 4800. Anyway, I got out of the car, left the motor running in 1st gear and climbed under the car. The drive shaft was turning but the wheels weren't.
You may ask yourself, why would he go out and deliberately tear up his car. Well, James can tell you I had it on the track at Gulfport and if I'm challenged on the highway I'll end up acting like a kid again. Better it happen a 1/4 mile from home than in Gulfport. It was a good Equi-loc while it lasted, now I want a differential that will take about 450 lbs of engine torque if I'm in Gulfport.
You guys that have drag raced and tried to tear up your cars time and time again, will a Trac-Loc fit my needs. Jim
Get a Detroit Locker Jim, you wont regret it. You wont break it. Trust me, its the only way to fly.
James,
I always thought this was a race only differential. I looked at Just-Rear-Ends website and they don't look any different from a Tru-Trac except a couple hundred bucks more. Will I be happy cruising with this differential as well as being assured it won't come apart. I bought a Tru-Trac from just-rear-ends and they were about the same price as everyone else. Have you got a source you like that have good prices. Jim
I've purposely stayed away from putting any type posi unit in my car because I would end up telling the same type story on my car. I know me. But if I did my 1st choice would be the Detroit Locker.
What James said! They can be a pain on the street (funny noises, tire draging on light acceleration while making a turn) but they will hook and last forever!
Guys,
Took the pig out of the poke today. I pulled the drivers side axle and it didn't have any splines on it and it was 1 3/4" too short. Wah La, maybe I'm lucky. Took the passenger side axle out and it looked just fine. Got a magnet and pulled the end of the axle out of the differential but dropped it before I could get it out of the housing. Soooooo, out comes the pig. The gears are great, no play to speak of and the grease was clean. These axles are the old tapered shaft axles but it broke in the big section right where the spline starts. Pig is good but I'm adding more power to the engine this winter.
Now for a replacement. After tons of reading reguarding the Detroit Locker I determined from the people that own them that it's not intended for what I want out of a differential. I explained to Eaton how I used the car and they suggested I stay away from the Locker. It's the best differential for staight ahead acceleration and durability while drag racing but the side effects would overshadow the benifits because most of my driving is cruising, shows and trips. They suggested the Tru-Trac, not the Trac-Loc like I bought for the Galaxie. They said with street tires my car couldn't hurt a Tru-Trac and I'd never know it was a posi-traction until I wanted to use it as such.
That's it. Time to add to the red and white money pit. Jim
Good news on the diff...now, upgrade to some 31 spline Moser axles...no more breakage. Thats what is going in mine. By the way, NASCAR rides use Detroit Locker too.. I had one in my last 57, it did clunk a bit going around corners, but that was just the ratcheting mechanism allowing the outside wheel to unlock. Its not anything I couldnt live with. My dad has a 28 spline DL in his Falcon ragtop and its not kverly iffensive in it, makes that cutesy little car sound.manly, lol. If you keep the limited slip, upgrade the side gears and axles to 31 spline if you plan on shifting at better than 4000. 28 splines are cool for knocking around with an automatic or a smallblock, but a stout FE with a manual and a low gear will kill it...just my .02.
Oh yeah, mine has a full spool and 4.56 gears, for now at least, lol....
Jim:
While I agree with the rest of the guys about the bullet-proofness of the Detroit-Locker, I've had good results with the Eaton posi in my 57 and it doesn't have the ratcheting around corners issue. I, too have upgraded the axles to 31 spline Strange axles, definitely a good idea for the occasional drag strip tour.
By-the-way, was the failure you experienced with the equa-loc or the 3:70 gears themselves?
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob,
The equi-loc is OK. The differential held. It was the axle. It broke right at the place where the teeth on the spline ends. 1 3/4" from the end. The guy at Just rear ends said the Equi-loc was weak and had just TWO somethings that held it together. He said the Trac-loc had four so even a Trac-loc was twice as strong as the Equi-loc. Anyway, it wasn't the Equi-loc that gave out. It was the axle shearing. Jim
James,
You guys are right. Why not upgrade to 31 spline axles and differential while I have to buy both anyway. Thanks. As far as the Locker vs tru-trac, I'd hate to spend the money buying it, installing it and then not like it. I'll keep you guys posted on what I get. I think you know it'll be soon. Jim
Guys,
I got the Tru-Trac, 3.50 gear ratio and 31 spline coming from R-Mustangs in San Francisco, Ca. Rick Mori is the owner. I looked him up on the internet and tried to find something bad about him. All I found was rave reviews. And, he was more than competitive on price. Now I have to find someone to make axles for me. The mustang axle is different in axle length than the 57. Both have 52" housings but they use a shorter axle than the one I have. Jim
Jim, check out Dutchman Motorsports they have an incredible reputation here in PNW. asearch for dutchman axles should lead you there.
Zap- :unitedstates:
Moser axles are still a good deal at $325, but you can look around and find them for $295. Never had any problems. Never heard any bad about the Dutchmans either, though. Stay away from the Superiors you see advertised on ebay a lot. Do a search on the HAMB or just google them if you want to see why. Not a well made product, not a lot less than Mosers.
I did buy a set of Strange 35 spline axles for this car, but when I saw the price of a matching locker, I figured a 31 spline would do just as well....the Strange axles run around $450, fyi...
Jim:
You say the EquaLok is OK, but if the car sat still while you looked underneath to see the driveshaft turning, it wasn't working. The car should still pull even with a broken axle. Clutches are probably shot.
John
John,
You're probably right. I thought the thing ought to have pulled itself back home on one axle but it wouldn't. Someone told me once to check the clutches by how much effort it took to break the wheel loose by hand with one side of the car jacked up. The last time I checked it still took effort to break it loose. I bought an extra set of clutches years ago and never put them in.
I don't know for sure but when the axle broke I was probably doing better than 4000 rpm. God knows what it reved to just afterwards. Would that take the clutches out. The gears look good and it turns on the bench.
The way the rear differential works always mistified me anyway. On a open differential the tire with the least resistance is the one that spins. Does the clutch pack on a LSD actually have enough pressure on it to enable the tire with most resistance to lay the same rubber streak on the highway as the wheel that's doing the pulling. And if it does, how the hell are you able to break it loose with one side of the car jacked up sitting still.
I'm sure I'm not the only one that doesn't know how a LSD actually works. Can you put it into layman's terms so I can understand how a LSD that you can break the raised wheel loose by hand can apply as much traction as the wheel that got the most resistance. Jim
Guys,
Moser down here in Portland can make the axles, provide the bearings and put the lugs in the axle flange for $445.00. The guy that is building my pig had choosen the Yukon axles that you take to a machine shop and cut to length for $300.00. He said cars like mine with unusual axle lengths chose that axle because it was so strong. Which would you guys go with. Jim
EDIT: He already ordered the Yukon axles, that's OK. Too late. Anyway, that's $300.00 counting shipping so the price is right. I've got the advantage of having access to a machine shop and good machinest so we ought to be able to cut the length without hurting the intergrity of the metal.
Well, I did it again. The Yukon axles came in. They are nice. I'll cut them in the next couple days. My buddy has a machine shop. I got a problem though. The axles have the wrong BRAKE OFFSET. I didn't know there was such a thing until I started looking at where the bearings were going to sit. Seems Ford made more than just the big bearing 9" axle or the small bearing axle with just different lengths. They made different offsets to accomodate different size brake shoes. They made 2", 2.125", 2.375, 2.5" and 2.66". And, each axle has a different offset ( distance from the outside flange to where bearing sits. Well, to make a long story short I called Yukon and they said go ahead and turn the collar down to what my specifications called for. They don't make a brake offset to fit every size brake shoe. The axles they sent me were 2.375" offset and I need 2.125" offset for 1 3/4" brake linings. They make different brake drums for different brake linings also.
I can cut them but wondered about the intergrity of the axle by cutting on it. They told me to call the guy that ordered it and send them back if I didnt' like them. They said the warranty would still be 5 yrs on the axle but he declined to send me a Email to confirm what he'd said.
Question is: Have any of you guys had to cut an axle to obtain correct brake offset. Or, is this why you order custom axles to begin with. Jim
As we already know all parts will be modified to fit so if you have a qualified shop that can do it I would go for it. We own a small Harley aftermarket shop and have a mill and lathe mostly for the bolt on parts we have to install. As for axles I have used Moser's but on a different car so can't honestly compare. I have been rough on them with no known problems and piece of mind over stock. I too have broken a few parts usually late at night not near the house or shop.
Jim:
If you didn't have a buddy with a machine shop, you would have to spend enough to make the Yukon axles work that the price would have probably been about the same as Moser. I ordered my Mosers for a '57 Ford with 31 splines and they fit like stockers. 2 days after I ordered them they were on my doorstep.
John
John,
You're right as rain. Some people will never learn. I'm beginning to think I'm one of those people. When I contacted Just-Rear-Ends and Moser I asked for an estimate on the pig and axles. Both came back about the same @ $1695.00 counting shipping. The pig and axles from R-Mustangs came in at $1324.00 counting shipping, buying wheel lugs and bearings.
I think what made me go with the set-up I'm getting is the $371.00 I saved getting what I did. But, there's a little voice in the back of my mind telling me I'm not as confident in this setup as I would be with Moser. If I'd have known I had to cut the bearing seat back another .187" I sure wouldn't have went with Yukon axles. But, I do have a good machinest with the equipment to do this. If I didn't have him, I'd send them back. He's got the hanger next to mine and we're helping each other all the time anyway. Jim
PS For anyone thinking about getting axles to fit a 57 Ford with 1 3/4" inch brake shoes the distance from the face of the axle flange to the seat of the bearing (Brake Offset) is 2.187". The drivers side axle length from the face of the flange to the end of the axle is 26.000". The length of the passenger side axle is 30.375". That's if you have a 52.000" housing.
Same as John, I ordered Mosers for `57, with the short offset. That offset is also why later OEM disk brakes wont work on the `57 rear without some work. They bolt up but offset is wrong..I found that out the hard way too.
There's something I want to ask you guys while I've got you on the phone. Question: 300 hp in a 3900 lb car shouldn't break an axle should it. Wouldn't you think after 54 years the axle was weak to begin with. I'd have thought I'd have broken a universal joint first. Jim
Probably age. When I raced, aftermarket axles were mandatory. And no, I don't think 300hp
should break it either. Must be the stick shift.
It would be more the torque that broke ir than hp. It may only have 300 hp but it might have 400 or better lbs ft of torque, more than enough to kill a stock 28 spline axle with a manual trans. I'd say that the lower 1st gear in that Tremec might have something to do with that also. Toploader has a 2.78 1st gear, I think the Tremec has a 3.something...more mechanical leverage equals more stress. Plus the age...
Now is your chance to put bigger brakes on the car.70's full size wagon is what I used....One of the setups I had in the 80's was using 8"-28 out of a Cougar and machining the bearing shoulder back .250" and it worked fine.The original axles look like they were made in a black smiths shop.These worked well racing the car with 1.60 60ft times.When I went to bigger brakes I then went with Moser 31's.Those are gone and now am in a 35 spline world......ahhhh the evolution of our cars
I googled " how to calculate rear wheel torque" I was very surprised when I figured out the torque on the rear wheels if the tires don't spin. The formula is: RearWheelTorque = Engine torque (figure highest) times Transmission Ratio times Differential Ratio. My car's rear wheel torque came out to: 427 (@ 2800 rpm) times 2.87 times 3.70 = 4,534 ft lbs torque. Jim
57Ford,
I already had bought new brakes before the axles came in. Also, I would have had to find new drums.
Jim:
Interesting that you find the left axle is 26". That's what I measured mine when I called Moser. They called me back and asked if I had modified something, their records show the axle to be 26 1/4. How's that for service? I dont' think 1/4 inch would not be enough difference to matter in that application.
OH contrare great white legend from Indiana. 1/4" would make a big difference expecially on my differential. Where mine broke was right at the spline teeth. There's 1 3/4" of spline and that's what was left in the differential. I haven't measured the length of the differential seat but if my axle had been 26 1/4" long with 1 3/4" of that in splines, I'd have been trying to push 1/4" of unsplined axle into the differential. A 26 1/4" axle with 2" of spline on the end would work.
This axle I got from Yukon says the axle can be used for lengths 25.5" - 32.87". I measured the shaft and found out that if I cut the length for a 25.5" axle, I'd have 1 3/4" of spline left to go into the differential. 1 3/4" must be the magic number for amount of spline you need. Jim
only axle I ever broke was in my high school daily driver 57 with a 66 GT 390, broke it twice. Finally figured had a slightly bent housing that put things in a bind. swapped in another and almost immediately broke a u-joint. the fun of building on a kids budget with junkyard parts. not to be overlooked in the formula was the simultaneous rush of testerone on a 16 year old boy every time he fired it up and its instant effect on his right foot.
Zap- :unitedstates: :102:
John,
After spending the morning making sure I wasn't contradicting something you said and I end up wrong. My housing was 53" exactly from housing flange to housing flange. The bearing offset was 2.1975" for the axle using 1.750" brake shoes. This axle uses the RW207CCRA small inclosed bearing.
Drivers side axle:
The spline itself is 1.437" long. Of which .093" is not inserted in the differential splined receptical. The differential splined receptical is 1.125" deep. The end of the axle has .219" protruding through the differential splined receptical. Thus, if you added another 1/4" to the length of the axle, it better be splined or you would be trying to insert .157" of unsplined axle into the differential receptical.
Passenger Side Axle:
This one was a little different. It had .375" of splined axle that wasn't inserted into the differential receptical. It's total length was 30.416" long with about the same length of splined area at the end of the axle as the drivers side had. I didn't measure it's receptical depth.
I know this sounds like hogwash to some people but if I had had this information last week I'd have a set of custom axles sitting here from Moser already. And I would have known that one axle don't fit all ( I have found out more than I ever wanted to know about 57 Ford axles ). Jim PS. The original 57 Ford axle had to withstand 2800 ft. lbs of torque with a 3.70 rear gear and manual transmission. I was putting 4500 ft lbs of torque on it. Something to think about when you slap a bigger engine in your car and keep the original rear end.
The original 57 Ford axle had to withstand 2800 ft. lbs of torque with a 3.70 rear gear and manual transmission. I was putting 4500 ft lbs of torque on it. Something to think about when you slap a bigger engine in your car and keep the original rear end.
[/quote]
That is very good to know Jim.
Jim:
As I recall, the Moser axles have plenty of spline length, so I was only thinking the 1/4" difference would not be of any consequence except for clearance at the spider gear shaft in a stock center, but I'm using a spool so even that doesn't matter.
John
John,
Maybe you can answer this. Has all these differentials kept the same diminsions for 50 years. Meaning, is the location for the splined receptical that the axle goes into the same now as it was 54 years ago. You'd think that it would have changed over the years. And, if it did, that would make the 26" axle like I had almost useless with just a 1.4" splined surface length. Jim
Guys,
I changed my mind and boxed up the Yukon axles and will be sending them back. Rick at R Mustangs said if I didn't like them I could send them back. Well, I don't like them. With the Yukon axles I'd have to recut the flange diameter, hub pilot diameter, brake offset, axle length and then put a 1" hole in the flange to be able to tighten the retaining plate nuts. That's too much work for buying a set of axles. They cost $300.00 counting shipping.
The NHRA approved axles from Moser will be @ $365.00 counting shipping. Keeping the Yukon axles ceased to lend credence even for my weakest Kentucky brain cells. Jim
Jim, I'm curious on the cost of the Yukon axles, also would they have worked on anything or where they more of a "blank" ?
Zap- :unitedstates:
Zap,
The cost for the 1541H axles were $157.30 each. They were universal axles that fit numerous vehicles with the small bearing 9" housing. The guy I had build the Tru-Trac got me a deal on them and I just paid $300.00 counting shipping. If you had wider brake shoes they would fit your car. The shaft length is up to you to cut to size. They are a great shaft if you need a 2.375" brake offset. But, to make them a perfect fit required all the things I listed previously. No one makes an over the counter axle for a 1957 Ford Fairlane that will fit every application. They quit making them a long time ago. So, you end up having to modify certain aspects of these one size fits all axles. Or, have them custom made. In my case it just so happens that the difference in cost will be about $70.00. Jim
PS: There is a benifit to running 1.750" brake shoes. The bearing offset is 2.200" on my car. The bearing offset is 2.375" on the Yukon axles. That's .175" more room to get the tires out from under the wheel well when I change tires. Believe me I'll take as much clearance as I can get on my 57. And, when you change bearing offset you have to change axle length to accomidate the extra offset. The 1.75" brake shoes on my car will lock up the rear tires on dry pavement. You couldn't do better than that with 5" wide brake shoes. I had the bias set too high on my rear brakes once and found out.
Thanks, Jim.
Found this link on 9 inch Fords on the HAMB, lots of good information
http://www.kevinstang.com/Ninecase.htm
Zap- :burnout:
My Mosers have something like 3 or 4 inches of spline length. My Strange axles had almost 4 inches as well, 35 spline. Sold them, kinda wish I had them back now...
Dito on the Mosers, the Falcon has a stock 57 car housing. I called Moser on John's advice and ordered a set of 33 spline axles and full spool. They fit perfect with the stock rear drums.
Zap..that's a great reference website..answered all of the confusion I had on rear ends..sizes, terminoligy, ect. that I wasn't able to get answers on. Thanks. I think you ought to post it in the technical links board. Rich
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2011-07-04 09:42
Zap..that's a great reference website..answered all of the confusion I had on rear ends..sizes, terminology,etc.. that I wasn't able to get answers on. Thanks. I think you ought to post it in the technical links board. Rich
Absolutely right, one of my pet peeves is searching for a bit of info that gets tagged into a related thread and becomes almost impossible to remember the often obscure connection. Done and waiting for future reference.
Guys,
The axles are ordered and Kip at Moser Engineering said I'd have them on my doorstep Thursday. The axles were the A31CST contingency paying axles. I didn't know what Contingency Paying axles were so I found out. If I win at an NHRA or other drag racing sanctioned event and I have a Moser sticker on my car they'll give me money. ( I should have asked him if they'd pay me to beat my buddy's Mustang Bullitt ). LOL
Anyway, the axles I ordered will only have 5 holes in the flange plus a hole to tighten the retaining nuts ( $25.00 extra ). The flange will be the right diameter and the brake offset will be correct. Plus, for the Tru-Trac differential he said they add a little more shaft to the passenger side to insure full insertion. ( Something I didn't know about that needed to be done with a Tru-Trac.) The cost of the axles counting shipping was $436.00.
Kip, (the salesman at Moser) knew John and has raced with him. The thing that impressed me most about the salesman at Moser was what he didn't say. I told him I had ordered a Tru-Trac complete differential from Rick Mori at R Mustangs and paid $930.00 counting shipping and it was Rick that ordered the Yukon axles to go with the differential. First off, he said the price was low because a lot of the parts he would be using was used. The Tru-Trac unit would be new but the other parts would be used. He said they were probabley good parts, but used. He said the same differential with everything new from them was @ $1500 not counting shipping. He also said that I couldn't blame the guy for ordering the Yukon axles. He didn't dig another person, that impressed me.
For anyone with 1.75 brake shoes and a Ford 9" housing (it really isn't a 9" housing, they didn't make them till 1959, but a 9" differential fits in them) here is the PRECISE diminsions on the axles I took out of this housing using an Equa-Loc differential. LH Axle = 26", RH Axle = 30.375", Brake offset = 2.170", Pilot hub diameter = 2.435", Flange diameter = 6.000", Retaining nut hole in flange = 1.187", Axle housing length = 53.000", Bearing surface diameter = 1.378", Brake shoe width = 1.750", Wheel stud diameter = .625" pressed knurl fit, Housing Flange to Flange assembled length @ 57.340". That's it. Jim PS. Kip asked me if I could get my money back on the Yukon axles, my answer was " I don't give a damn ". I'm just not in the axle making business.
Guy's,
Got the new Moser axles, really nice. Now I'm waiting on the pig to come in. Hopefully, I'll have the car on the road by the weekend. The old tapered axles were @ 1.00" in diameter at the smallest point. The new axles are @ 1.347" in diameter. The guy I got the Yukon axles from said he'd get a Return Authorization Number for me so I can ship the old axles back.
Just for a FYI piece of information. Don't waste your time putting axles in the refregerator and heating the bearings and expect to put bearings on axles. I did that and it absolutely was a joke. It takes a good hydraulic press to put bearings on axles. At least it did on my application. Jim
PS. I also found out why my axle broke. When I went into the machine shop to have the axle bearing pressed on the new axles I explained that I'd broken an axle. The old man looked at me and said, you were wheel hopping weren't you. That's how axles get broken. I told him no, it was under acceleration. THEN, I remembered how it went down. I jumped on the gas while it was rolling and I let off monentarily because I didn't like the way it was coming out and then I jumped on it again. All this happened in a split second. I let the axle unwind for a split second and then hit it hard after it had unwound. Apparently it just stayed together until I was well into first gear. I've had my car wheel hop on me many times. It possible could have been weaked previously. I'll look at a wheel hop a little differently now. Jim
Get a set of Cal Tracs , it wont wheelhop like that anymore....At the least get some old Traction Masters, they work well too..
Jim:
James has it right. No more wheel hop with the CalTracs, but unless you slip the clutch a bit your 57 might bog at the line. Mine did after adding CalTracs. 4000 RPM, dump the clutch, used to spin the tires like crazy off the line on a drag strip. Now 4500 RPM, dump the clutch, & still trying to find the correct tire pressure, so the car will launch with just a little wheel spin & keep the RPM up. Love the CalTracs.
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob and James,
You do realize that if my front end got that much air under it with the rear wheels still on the ground it would be going over a cliff somewhere. I did go out and put my traction bars on it though. It's the cheap one's from Summit. Maybe it'll help the spring from wrapping up too much. The only drag strip my car is going to see is Gulfport this fall. I just need to enhance what I got for the every-now-and-then-challenge you face on the street.
When I was younger I'd drag race every now and then and I didn't break things. You'd wear out your clutch, your tires or drop a U-joint every now and then but to break something big was seldom. The 1966 Fairlane GT I had saw it's share of drag races and I replaced the 11 1/2" clutch once and replaced a U-joint in it once. Rear tires seemed to go fast also. ( I remember when Wide Ovals came out. You couldn't drive your car on the road if it were wet. Well, it seemed like that. They sure looked good though.) The guys that drag raced all the time were at the garage all the time too. My car had to take me on vacation as well as finding a straight stretch of pavement to race on every now and then. That's what I want from my car now. Strong enough to stay together for the every once in awhile abuse. I guess I want everything to give a little without putting too much strain on just one compontent on the car.
After I get my pig back in I'll take it out and dump the clutch to see how it comes out of the hole. If it wheel hops I'll promise you the Cal-Tracs will be ordered. I'm not going through this ordeal again. The Moser axles and Tru-Trac should stand up to what I've got in my car for power. Jim
Here is a picture of the traction bars I'm talking about. I have no idea if they are any good. I just remember them when I was younger. Jim
Jim:
A good friend of mine in the Transmission business gave me some pretty good information/advice. He said the reason why major things didn't break all that often in the "good ole days" was that the smaller things that did break broke first instead of the bigger things. Then as we "hot rodders" repaired the smaller things with stronger things and added more power, we kind of re-engineered our rides. He kind of laughed when he saw I'd added a supercharger to my 351W. He asked what did I think would be the next thing to be replaced. I looked at the torque reading on the dyno chart and told him the Borg Warner T-10. So I now have a TKO 600. I'm sure that if I put enough stress on the car the next thing could be something in the 3rd member, maybe the original 3:70 ring gears. Then I'll probably have to go out & get a nodular iron set-up. Etc., etc., etc. But I'm not too worried about it, because I intend to have a blast with the car and just replace whatever goes next with something a little better. My Transmission buddy calls it re-engineering and it sure keeps his business thriving. One thing I do know is that the car is now in far better shape than it was when it rolled off the line on September 27, 1957. Stronger, faster, better,funner kinda like it's now a BIONIC 57. LOL
Bob
57 AGIN
Jim,
My Ranchero ran mid 11's with a bar similar to that. Mine had u bolts that held them
close the to spring. I ran the right side a little closer to the spring. With the spool
the were set equal..
Bob,
I like your attitude. That's apparently what I'm doing now. Can't wait for the headers to get here. That should be in about three weeks.
Shoprat,
Thanks for that information. I'd be happy to break into the 14's without breaking the car. If these traction bars work, I'll repaint them Flame Red and get Moser to send me more stickers.
The weakest part about the drive-train has to be the U-joints. I've still got a small U-joint in back. The one at the Tremec is a big one. The guy make the drive shaft that way because he didn't like step down U-joints.? The block is the heavier inverted 105, the bell housing is Lakewood, the clutch is a heavier racing clutch, the transmission is the TKO 600, the drive-shaft has a bigger OD for torque and now I'll have the Tru-Trac and better axles. NOTHING can go wrong now. RIGHT. Jim
Cute traction bars.I broke a leaf spring years back using short bars.Unless you hit the front spring pad on the frame your kind'a hard on the spring.
Is this true. Are these bars too short. Jim
Just looked up the Cal-Tracks. Cal-Tracs put pressure in the downward direction in the same place these would be putting pressure in the upward direction. I had these on the 63 Galaxie for a while and there was no wheel hop, but, the rubber stub was on the leaf spring mount. The 57 springs are about 2 inches longer than the 63. I looked up traction bars and some showed the stub hitting the leaf spring mount and some had them hitting the spring. Jim
57Ford,
What kind of motor, transmission, rear end did you have when you broke the spring. Jim
Ideally, the snubber will hit directly under the spring eye. I'm using the old Traction Masters I got from wighty. They look a lot like the ones I built for my last `57; they are on my dad's Falcon now, and work great.
Thanks James, Lakewood sells a set of 30" bars for around $100.00. I'll measure the distance I need tomorrow and go from there. Jim
Jim,it was a 428PI with a C6, 4000 stall converter and 4.56 gear.After breaking the right leaf my day was done at the track.I flat towed the car back then and tied the housing to the drive shaft safety loop with a comealong.I could see one fin in one mirror and none of the car in the other.The Caltracs do pivot and hit the top of the spring but of course are tied in to the spring eye.My old slapper bars were MAS 7500 series that I made when working there in the mid 70's.I bet I added 8 inches to them.Also my screen name is F570 RD....lol F570 is my NHRA number so I'm really not dyslexic. :003:
F570rd,
I went back and looked at Bob's installation of the Cal-Tracs. I like them but I've been down going on three weeks now. That's a job for winter. I'll see about getting the extra length Lakewood if they'll come out where I want them to. If not, she sails like she is. Jim
Quote from: JPotter57 on 2011-07-11 22:38
Ideally, the snubber will hit directly under the spring eye. I'm using the old Traction Masters I got from wighty. They look a lot like the ones I built for my last `57; they are on my dad's Falcon now, and work great.
did a search for "traction masters" it appears they are still in business. and offer replacement bushing kits for their bars. have seen sets over the years seem simple enough to build something similar and install.
Zap- :unitedstates:
Zap,
I really like the Traction Masters. That would be a lot easier to weld up than the Cal-Tracs. The thing I didn't like about the traction bars I've got is that the suspension can't work as freely as the Cal-Tracs or the Traction Masters. Surely to God I can find a place to weld the pads on the frame expecially if I prepare it first. And, my U-bolts are long enough to not have to bother the original plate. Thanks, Zapato Jim PS. I'm on my way to the airport now to see if my mounting locations fit similar to what thier website shows.
Jim.explain please your avatar.I might be having nightmares.
F570rd,
That's my car doing a burnout at Gulfport a couple years ago. They made me run the rest of the night without cleaning my tires first. I guess two of the track personel were hospitalized with 3rd degree burns. LOL
It's an illusion, but the only illusion about it is who's car is in the picture. The original picture was that of a 60's Dodge Ramcharger. It looks like the picture was taken for publicity purposes and they used gasoline instead of water for the burnout, then they lite the gasoline. I just super-imposed my car over the Dodge. Jim
Jim & F570rd:
Just goes to show that you can't trust photos very much any more. lol Whatever happended to the concept that a "picture is worth a thousand words?" The avatar really does look awesome.
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob, Zap, F570rd,
I called Chuck at Traction Masters and he said they made the correct bars for my car. And, he said they made them back in 1957 also. There's a couple points he made about my application.
1. The idea I had about moving the location of the front mount pad further forward so I could weld to the frame and not bother the spring perch was a bad idea. He doesn't want the bar that far forward.
2. He had the prints of my 57 frame layed out in front of him discribing what I had. That was nice.
3. He's having me call back tomorrow with the measurement of the front spring eye to center of spring plate at the axle. And, he wants me to double check U-bolt diameter and mount hole diminsions.
4. The front pad weldment consists of a "L" shaped bracket that will weld onto the frame with a pin that centers the end of the rod directly underneath the center of the spring eye.
The first thing he wanted to know was how much horsepower I had. Then his next comment was " how did you break an axle with no more horsepower than that ".
I'll call back tomorrow and order them. I might as well. I'm going to be putting bigger heads,cam, intake and headers on it. It'll just be something I won't have to do this winter. Jim
Fire burnouts were cool...fuel altereds used to do ut all the time til Wally banned it in around 74 or so....truly a spectacle.
Guys,
I'm tired of waiting on a differential that hasn't even been shipped yet from California. I'm picking a nodular unit up from Moser tomorrow at 2:00 pm. They charge an extra $100.00 for overnight assembly but I don't see being able to make a vacation trip to Ky. this weekend without doing it this way. I'll just try and sell the unit from California on Ebay when it gets here. That, or use it in the 63. I got the Nodular 9" Tru-Trac W/ Aluminum Daytona Pinion support. Hopefully it will be in the car tomorrow by 7:00 pm. Jim PS. Some people never learn.
Jim:
A little off topic, but you are an airplane guy. Did you know Greg Moser, the founder of the company? He liked racing planes, he and his wife died a few years ago in the crash of his 427 Chev powered plane.
John
John,
No, I didn't know Greg but after reading the NTSB report of the accident he seemed well qualified to fly a complex, high speed aircraft. The report said his airplane came apart at 11,000 ft. Wind shear at altitude over stressed his airplane and broke it up. I bet he would have been a fun guy to talk flying with. Jim
On the road again. Like a gypsy rolling down the highway.
Let's get it together Jim..lol...it's "like a band of gypsies rollin' down the highway" Rich
I'm sorry Rich, When I grew up it was songs like " I'm wearing out the shoes that Charlie wore". Then after a brief spell with the Beatles and Rolling Stones I paid more attention to raising kids. I missed the enlightened free love period all together. Darn
I ran the rear gear train while it was in the air. It didn't make a sound. It was silent, great. Then I pulled into the drive way and made a 90 degree turn into the garage at a real slow speed. The drive train started vibrating at a small but constant amount, so I put it in reverse and backed up and pulled forward again. I got out and looked under it to make sure I hadn't lost something. It drove great all the way home and I didn't feel anything at a higher speed than crawl. The noise it was making was like a piece of rubber slipping and catching on something. Not a loud noise, just enough to hear it. I'll get used to it. I'm driving about 100 miles to a car show tomorrow, I hope it's just the Tru-Trac doing what it's suppose to do. Jim
Those are happy noises! :burnout:
Guys,
My Tru-Trac from California came in today. Looks good. I've got it listed for sale.
another picture. Jim
another, another picture. Jim
that shuddering sound is the clutches breaking loose. hopefully it is only making noise while doing low speed turns?? If you haven't already, add a couple ounces of friction modifier from ford. that will solve the problem.
Moser said " do not put friction modifier in a Tru-Trac. Jim
really? I wonder why? it sure looks like a clutch type unit, maybe they have had some issues? I know ford used to have it in the 90 weight instead of in separate bottles. I personally haven't had any issues using it, mind you this is in a ford trac-loc which is what it looks like they used for design.
Burns,
When I first got the unit home and opened it up I called Moser back and told them they'd made me a trac-loc instead of a Tru-Trac. I told them it looked like the Trac-Loc I'd bought for the 63. ( you had to put friction modifiers in that gear oil). The picture of the Tru-Trac on their brochure is that of a GM 10 bolt unit ( they're made different). The differential I got from California is the same. THEY ARE TRU-TRACs. If you look close you might see the four gear positions on the tapered side.
I'd bet there isn't a handful of guys that's seen a Ford 9" Tru-Trac on this website. That was me included. I hope I never see another one. They are heavy when you end up putting them in yourself. Jim PS After about 500 miles I don't notice anything with the rear end. Sounds good, don't notice in grabbing in turns even at low speeds. Part of it might me that I figure it won't come apart now.
Gotcha! the ford tru-trac had a similar block with 4 springs in the middle correct? I remember having a diff. that seemed to just load the side gears rather than having clutches.not sure if that is what a tru-trac was considered or not.