Question: What's Stan's last name at FPA. I'm suppose to get my headers pretty soon and when I do I think I'll publish an artical with pictures so the rest of you know just exactly what you're getting into.
When I spoke to Stan and ordered the headers he made me understand that if I had any problems whatsoever with the installation that I should contact him and he would make it right. I will do that. After all, how many suppliers do we have for our 57's. This should be interesting since he has a new, tighter pipe bending machine. Hopefully I'll be able to get the job done in two or three days. ( heaven forbid my car go down for any length of time). Jim
His name is Stan Johnson. If anyone has ever installed headers I can't see anything out
of the ordinary. A dent here and there is not uncommon on any header. :003:
The quality is excellent.
I understand how a header is designed for a production car with all known parameters. But how the hell does one design a set for any swap and assure fit is beyond me. Engine placement up or down or forward or backward even an inch each way has to play havoc when designing it. Seems that if you do say the same swap say a FE into a 3 different 57s with 3 different guys fabricating mounts the finish results could be quite different. I'd appreciate any insight, any header manufacturers out there care to chime in.
Zap- :unitedstates:
i
Zap,
There's only a couple engine mounts that fit an FE to begin with I thought. You can swap sides with Y Block mounts or you can buy the 58 FE mount. My car has only two places as far as I know that will cause me problems. The first is the Upper A Frame and that's the most important area. The second is the Z bar location for the clutch. I know for a fact I'll have problems in that area because Stan told me I would. He also told me how to fix that problem. I realize this isn't like buying a new clutch pressure plate only to find out the holes don't match the crank. You'd have reason to get upset then.
FPA has taken upon itself to build a set of headers for a perticularlly tough application. If you want to cut up your A-Frames or beat dents in the header pipes, then probably anyones headers will work. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with that if that's what you want to do. But, at the same token there's nothing wrong with someone that doesn't want to do that. It isn't like FPA is giving these headers away. They cost money. They should cost money if it works. After seeing the clearance problems with my 57 I'm just glad someone has taken on the challenge to build a header that fits with minimal alternations. I'm sure there's a lot of people that would like to know what's involved with putting headers on their 57 before they invest the money in them. It's sort of like that Tremec installation I did on my car. I'm sure that helped some people make the decision on whether to go that route or not. I've looked all over the internet searching for an artical on header installation on a 57 Ford Fairlane. I haven't found one yet.
As far as a Header Designer getting on here and explaining the Design Criteria and Installation of his product, you're right. I wish Stan had the time to sit down and write an artical and explain to everyone the same things he explained to me over the phone. I'm sure he takes the same time as he did with me when someone else calls him about buying headers. It would be nice and this would be a good forum and website for it. Jim
Crites states you must use there motor mounts and trans mount for proper header fitment. I made my own and they fit fine although
ground clearance is quite low.
RMK57,
I didn't go with the long tube headers because of the 63 Galaxie I'm restoring. I bought Mad Dog full length headers for the 63 Galaxie and proceeded to put some nice dents in them scraping them on the road when I'd hit a bump. I bought springs that lifted the front end of that car two inches to make sure I don't put any more dents in the headers or a hole in my extended oil pan. I'm waiting to get that car out of the body shop to find out if I can align the front end with it raised two inches. The 57 can't be raised too much in the front end and still be able to do a wheel alignment. Been there, done that. Wore the insides of a good set of Michelin tires out by doing that. Jim
Quote from: JimNolan on 2011-07-29 06:57
As far as a Header Designer getting on here and explaining the Design Criteria and Installation of his product, you're right. I wish Stan had the time to sit down and write an article and explain to everyone the same things he explained to me over the phone. I'm sure he takes the same time as he did with me when someone else calls him about buying headers. It would be nice and this would be a good forum and website for it. Jim
Jim, maybe he would take time if you a happy customer asked him. Would be interesting read without him having to give away any proprietary tricks.
Zap- :unitedstates:
Zapato,
I'm not a happy customer yet. I haven't got them yet. But, when I do. I'll be more than happy to share my experience after the installation. It surprises me that we don't have more Companies with items for sale that pertain mainly to our cars. Maybe James can tell us. I know 57fords.com have advertisements on their website. From speaking to Stan I've come to the conclusion that Stan stays busy. He had an 8 week backlog on making headers for me.
Maybe I'm just partial to this website but I get more information of the real world on this website. Don't get me wrong but there's a difference when it come's to advice you get on some of the forums. I might ask a question on a website forum about the way to improve performance of an FE and get into a conversation with a group of guys that run the Nostalgia Racing Circuit that has never seen any miles put on their car other than a quarter mile at a time. While it's good information it doesn't really apply to what you may be wanting to accomplish with your application. One of the two biggest mistakes I've made is not listening to the Hurricane on putting $1000.00 dollars into a T85 and where to buy axles and differentials. I've decided to pay more attention to advice from those that have been there and quit trying to save money on the things I buy for my 57. I've lost too much time and money trying to save money. Jim
The 385 series engine is a lot bigger than an FE. Stan's headers fit real well in my car..
It's a tight fit for sure. I always had custom built headers on my FEs' when racing the car.
For what I do with it now the shorties are fine. The car is so low you couldn't put long headers
on it now anyway. I have banged a set or two on a dry hop :burnout: not good. Came down and
header hit and bent tie rod.
Anyway, pls do show us how the fit and install. :001:
Ron
Funny about the tie rod.My long tube Crites were dented on the top of number 1 and 2 tube because of the car leaving hard.I had installed a stopper other that the factory piece but it just grazed them a bit.It did help that I had high port Blue Thunder heads to keep them off the ground some but you then bring them to other stuff to hit......lol
Guys,
Headers came today. They look very nice. They are coated Gray. Can't wait. Jim
Looks great Jim....look well put together.
Jeff,
The flanges are really thick and the pipes seem to be thick also. It surprised me how well finished they are. There's no way I'm going to beat something that looks this nice into submission. After seeing the headers I'll consider triming the A arms slightly if need be. But as Stan said, he's 99.8% sure I won't have to. Hopefully I'll get these on next week. I'm going to do this first, the traction masters second and wait to later in the year to put the new heads, cam and intake on. I'd rather use a motor with 27,000 proven miles on it than a newly assembled one to take trips with the rest of the summer. Besides, 40 more horsepower isn't going to make me think I've got a hemi under the hood anyway. Jim
Interesting read fellas.
I must be from Missouri(show me) or a doubting Thomas. ha ha ha.
Jim... does installation require loosening the motor mounts? Do you install from the top or must you install from under the car?
rmk57 stated that Crites requires the use of new motor mounts...this would be a 58 332 fe mount I assume? I too have heard about just using a Yblock V8 mount and "flipping" around.I have no doubt on this..I just can't see it in my head.I guess using either or of the above mentioned processes can set the FE in a different location, albiet small.. but a 1/2 inch can make a world difference(I assume.)
I certainly would not want to dent a tube... too expensive. Your pictures sure look great!... and by all accounts...I have heard that Crites makes a good product. Small companies have a tough time surviving these days(hell,.any days!) ha ha ha
Your absolutely right Jim..it all costs money and thats why I am a doubting Thomas when I hear "how cheap" I built my car... cause ..I must of missed that memo.... It's never been that way for me.
I must plan every move i make like a bobby Fisher chess player. hahahaha.
Jim,hemis are underated... trust me.I know. :001:
Jeff,
The Hemi thing is funny. They were over rated in the 50's too' (in stock form for sure)
As for your FE, I always preferred the 58 FE mounts. That way I was sure it was like a
factory install. Like I mentioned before my FE headers were always custom made.
FPA stuff is high quality. I am very happy with mine. (shortys) I really like the ball type
connection to the street exhaust. Mine are flash chromed. I don't remember if I
ordered them that way or not. :003: I did't dent mine. I trimmed oter things where
needed.
P.S. Sorry IMO they were over rated around here :004:
:001: ah ha ha :burnout:
Ron....this hobby is just so damn expensive..... :burnout:
And when you lay out good hard earned cash and it don't work out....well....yikes.
I have a friend right now setting out to Bonneville with a tanker...can't get the engine to fire.....10k plus just in the engine...he is suppose to be on his way at this very moment.
anyhow...You guys get the point and I digress from Jim's headers.I wholeheartedly agree with Jim.... and wish him all the success.
I am sure it will go very smooth. :004:
Guys,
You're going to find out next week how this all goes together. I changed my mind about waiting until after summer to do the cam and heads. I feel good right now so I'm going to use this feeling to get the most out of next week. I just came back from a car show. Now, I think I'll never go back to another car show. There was one shade spot close to where I was parked and in 90 degree heat that spot was premium property. I had to beat two six year olds and a guy in a wheel chair with a tire iron just to get that spot. Jim PS There were 10 trophys in the 50's class. Six were won by 57 chevy's, three were won by 55 chevy's and one was won by a 55 Jaguaer. I was pleased beyond comprehension to see those fine examples of automobile engineering win in those numbers. I only hope one day my 57 Ford can aspire to the vehicular heights that the Tri-Five chevys have risen to. I feel like a Jew in 1940's Germany at some of these car shows. Now guys, I'm just kidding.
Quote from: JimNolan on 2011-08-06 14:35
Guys,
You're going to find out next week how this all goes together. I changed my mind about waiting until after summer to do the cam and heads. I feel good right now so I'm going to use this feeling to get the most out of next week. I just came back from a car show. Now, I think I'll never go back to another car show. There was one shade spot close to where I was parked and in 90 degree heat that spot was premium property. I had to beat two six year olds and a guy in a wheel chair with a tire iron just to get that spot. Jim PS There were 10 trophys in the 50's class. Six were won by 57 chevy's, three were won by 55 chevy's and one was won by a 55 Jaguaer. I was pleased beyond comprehension to see those fine examples of automobile engineering win in those numbers. I only hope one day my 57 Ford can aspire to the vehicular heights that the Tri-Five chevys have risen to. I feel like a Jew in 1940's Germany at some of these car shows. Now guys, I'm just kidding.
HA HA HA
That's the way it is in a scrub world, Jim. That's why I like cruising, touring and drag events better than static car shows. My dad will go to shows, but he parks his Falcon in the parking lot. That car is a very nice car, capable of winning a show, but thats just not his thing. Now your `57 on the other hand, Jim, that car is awesome, and should have no problem taking on the tri-five crowd. The trouble is, most of the country has been brainwashed into believing that the last year of a design, afflicted by whatever add-on and band-aid styling they could tack on, is the icon of the automotive world. Think about it: the `57 Chevy, not a bad looking car, but there are others that are better looking. The `56 Mercury, for example, has as bulky looking a front end, but has better lines at the rear. The `57 Buick totally blows away the 57 Chevy, from any angle, and is the only other `57 vehicle that I really like. The `55-57 Olds is a better looking car than the `57 Chevy, and on and on it goes. This is the Bowtie obsessed world we live in, and I dont mind, because I can still afford to buy the basic car of my choice, whereas the tri-five Chevies are through the roof, and you need a good sized bankroll to get in the game over there. For what I paid for my Custom, I couldnt even buy a 95% rust-filled tri-five chev, so I will stay happy knowing that I have the better looking car, and I don't have the price of a small house in the mountains invested in it.
James,
I still like the shows. I met a man today (Larry, I forget his last name) that is going to be hooking up with this website soon. He's restoring a 57 Fairlane Convertable. We talked about 45 min or so. Another guy I met was Ben Metsger ( both these guys live around Columbia City) with a nice little 58 four door custom with 390 3spd and he and his wife are restoring a 4 door 57 Fairlane 500 for her. I spent another 45 minutes talking to that guy. Gave them both my card and and the name of this website so they could get hooked up with us. If it weren't for meeting and talking to those two guys today my day would have been a lot less pleasant.
The popularity of the 57 Ford is only growing. I wasn't the last surviving 57 Ford enthusiast out there when I joined this website. They are still coming. I just hope I can set a good example for those people when they look at my car or talk to me. They won't know I'm there unless I present myself and my car at the shows. And, believe it or not, I do have a good attitude when it comes to losing. After all, I've done it enough to be a pro at it. Jim
PS. I've had my share of times when Tri-Fives went home saying " the judge must have been a relative of that guy in the 57 Fairlane". So, no matter how much I whine, don't ever feel sorry for me. It would be misplaced.
My FPA's were a bit different.Are these for a stick car spiecific?
Yes, this is for the Lakewood bell housing and tremec 5 speed using the Z-bar for clutch actuation. Jim
A Chevy?.... that's like driving a Taxi cab....
Oh, that's great. Now we're giving taxi cabs a bad name. Jim LOL
I'd rather drive a checker marathon than a chevy.....lol
I ain't doing it. I went out this morning at 7:30 to take the car show paraphernalia out of the car and put the headers in the trunk and by the time I got through I was wringing wet with sweat. It'll have to wait until it doesn't kill me to swap everything around. Sorry. Jim
PS: From watching the weather channel on television you guys in Texas must think I'm a big sissy.
Jim I know exactly what you are thinking! I am in the block sanding stages with the wife's 65 Bird and it seams like I spend as much time with wiping up sweat drops as I do sanding! Water, water and more water and a fan but I'm still only good for about 5 hours in the Alabama heat. I just keep pushing on it so I can get to the Ranchero! I have managed to sneek in a little work on it, got the roof repaired and in "second" primer coat with the inside cleaned, sealed and insulated.....
Jim & Guys in the Mid-Part of the Country:
Rick and I both know how you feel about the judging and America's love afair with the Heratbeat bunch. We've experienced a lot of this over the years, but we also have quite a few Ford sponsored shows out here on the Left Coast. We do get a lot of spectators at the general shows that tell us how much they appreciate seeing something other than a Tri-five Chevy showing up. Lots and lots of guys & gals telling us about their 57 Ford experiences, or that of their parents. All in all, I know I like going to both kinds of shows. However both Rick and I envy you guys in the middle and other side of the country with your ability to go racing with your 57's.
Bob
57 AGIN
The people who come up and talk to you at events is my favorite part of driving my `61 F100. I really miss driving my `57 for that reason too, but hopefully it will be up and around this winter sometime. I will be getting my running 292 from fordblueblood in a few weeks, which will propel the old Custom nicely for a while, while I get my 312 built.
Bob,
I can't wait to get to the Y-Block meet. I've been there about three times but didn't race. I don't think I'll set the track on fire ( hope not ) but I think it'll be fun just knowing you're doing it with the guys you talk to all the time on this website. Jim PS. I'm glad we have the Ford Nationals, Y-Block Shootout and Gulfport within 1000 miles.
James, The late checker Marathons had C+*#Y motors in them. Are you coming to the Shoot out for Sure? Do you still need a front seat frame? Let me Know. Tom
Yes I am coming up and yes I still need the seat frame. Do you have a useable one? There is nothing down here...
UPDATE:
I went out this morning and took the passenger side exhaust manifold off. The exhaust pipe took two hours of man handling to get off. (I don't want to talk about this so don't ask. Just know it didn't go well when trying to preserve this piece). I then cleaned the head surface and tried to install the header. You can't get it on from the top. You can't get it on from the bottom. You can't get it on unless the engine is jacked up or the head is off. I loosened the motor mounts and proceded to jack up the motor. It wouldn't raise far enough. I'd forgot that the top of the Tremec is 1/4" from the floor and to get the motor out the transmission has to be taken out first.
I then reinstalled the old manifold. It took two more hours just trying to reinstall the exhaust pipe ( that I had preserved, thank God). (I don't want to talk about this piece so don't ask. Just know it didn't go well). I will be investing in a exhaust pipe expander even if I only use it once. I did find out that this isn't a weekend project for an overweight 63 year old. I may not be able to move tomorrow. Jim PS Time spent to accomplish nothing = 8 hrs.
Wow... i always wondered by looking at them how in the hell they would install. engine must be jacked up or installed with them on it.
interesting. Youd think that they would mention this somewhere when you bought them.
Dakota,
I hope I didn't give the wrong impression with my last post. I was just letting everyone know there's more to it than just dropping them in. I wasn't complaining about the headers, I was just giving my experience trying to install them. I promised Stan Johnson I'd not say one disperaging word about the headers unless he couldn't correct any problem I might have with them. I haven't got a problem with them yet. Stan's probably spent a lot of time and work making these headers for us. Just because you can't drop them in doesn't put a blemish on them. they're super nice headers. Stan spent 30 minutes telling me of the problems I would have with the clutch linkage and how to fix that. Raising the engine to install the headers is normally an easy task and it's a normal task for most header installations from what I've seen. In my case it isn't. I'm just thankful there's someone out there that built these headers for us knowing each customer might have different problems.
This fall after the Gulf Coast Cruise is over I'll be replacing the heads, cam and intake anyway. I'll install the heads and headers assembled at that time. Jim PS. The funny thing is, this morning when I loosened the first bolt something told me to quit what I was doing and go back home and watch a movie. I didn't listen.
PS. The funny thing is, this morning when I loosened the first bolt something told me to quit what I was doing and go back home and watch a movie. I didn't listen.
[/quote]
Jim.it just was not a shop day is all.
I hear and feel your pain.. sometimes its a good day....for me,most its not! hahahah
Just take your time and set a plan forward.
I got a nasty fuel leak in my hot rod.. and I have been battling it for 2 weeks now..the problem is, it is in the worst area of the frame of the said vehicle and its a pain to work on your back,upside down.I only have jackstands and no lift.I can only get the damn car so high.and crawling under jack stands makes me nervous.. very nervous. Different vehicle,different problem...same pile of Bull cookies.
I am pulling for ya buddy.
And thanks for the report.Please keep us informed.
Quote from: JimNolan on 2011-08-16 18:25
PS Time spent to accomplish nothing = 8 hrs.
Been there, done that, too many times, whats next.......
That all sounds familiar to me also :003:
Well, Jim Iam' sure you don't want me to tell you how easy it was to install the F.P.A. headers on my 57 ragtop 390-c-6 but the whole job took less time , than you spent taking the one manifoild off. This is one job that went easy for me,most are not like that!!! Tom
Jim, I told the wife I was gonna tell you, if you fly down here and get me, I'll put `em on for you, lol...JK by the way, but I'd put em on for you though..
James,
If I still had my airplane I'd be tickled to death to come get you. When Karen got sick there at the last we sold the airplane so it wouldn't just sit. You can't let an airplane sit. It's not like a car. You can't let moisture form on the inside of the engines. At 30K a pop, it gets expensive replacing them. Jim