Guys,
I picked up my 63 from the painters Monday and it didn't run right. It was popping back through the carb. After much worry I pulled the valve covers and found two bent pushrods. After taking the rockers off I found one valve completely stuck in the valve guide (stuck closed thank God). I had to pull the head to make sure the piston was OK. It was. The valve was a brand new 1.65 exhaust valve and it was eaten up with rust. It was only on that one cylinder that had rust.
I'm having the machine shop check it out and pressure test the head. Has anyone had this happen to them. I don't think this is common but I could be wrong. I've drug old cars from behind barns that hadn't been started in 10 years and slapped a battery in it, squirted WD 40 down the cylinders, made sure the engine wasn't locked up, poured gas down the carb and had it start and run. After a oil change and a can of motor honey it would run like a top. How does a engine sitting for less than a year deterorate like that. Jim PS I love pulling head over freshly painted fenders.
Yes......not sure why only one would rust like that but have seen it with several in the same head, mostly because they were dry (no oil on them).
I bet you have those old trick heads that are only 5 LBS each and the ultra light intake manifold too...... :005:
BlueBlood,
The valve stem seals are the Viton positive stop seals. I got them because they were supposed to be the latest and greatest. The valve stem was dry as a bone when we took the valve out. I'd go back to the umbrellas but the top of the post was milled down just for these latest and greatest seals. The heads are 406 65cc heads and I'd hate to see anything happen to them. The intake is a 63 aluminum 427 one 4 barrel intake. Have you ever heard of these seals causing problems. Jim
No, I dont think that the seals are the problem. Pump gas, especially ethanol laced gas, holds a lot of moisture, that is more likely to cause serious rust issues than lack of oil. I would check the fuel tank, carb, other fuel related parts for that kind of damage too. That crap ethanol mess almost ruined my motorcycle. I parked it and didnt start it for about 5 or 6 months, when I went to sell it, it was flooded and stinky smelling gas was coming out the vent. When I checked everything, the carbs were trashed, well the needles and sests, plus the aluminum bowls were chalky. Also, inside the tank, which had been kept full, was rusty, even with the full tank. Cost me around 500 to fix the carbs alone. So no, I do not have a favorable opinion of ethanol.
James,
Thanks for that input. I have a bad habit sometimess of doing things that are popular without fully understanding what I'm doing and the reprocussions that go along with that decision. Those viton seals are a good example. I've always used umbrella seals and never had a problem. Why would I change but for people saying the viton seals were better.
As for the gas, it's two years old. I just bought 5 gallons yesterday to put in the tank. I hope my tank isn't rusted. I never gave it a thought. Of course I didn't think my car would be in body shop jail either. Bob might want to think about that too. Jim
Jim, James may be onto something there. Years ago (while I was on the dark side) my 62 Vette would sit over the winter and start and run just fine in the early spring. It had the Perfect Circle valve seals (spring clamps on the stem and milled guide) and was given no special care prior to being put in the barn basement (1968). It spent two winters like that, never missed a beat.
BlueBlood,
So now the truth comes out. You lived on the dark side. You weren't concieved on the steps of Ford Motor Companys Dearborn plant, raised in the back room of a Ford Dealership and educated using the Ford Engine Maintance Manuals 1954-1965. Are you a spy? Jim
I must admit I did stray......my young, stupid and bullet proof days......sold it to make a down on the 70 Boss 302 I owned for ten years and raced during two of those ten. But you will be proud to know that outside of the 36 Chevy street rod (351C/FMX/8"/Must II) the ONLY GM part in my shop is a chrome plated power steering pump pulley I won as a door prize at a rod run.... :003:
BlueBlood and James,
Talked to the machine shop today. They said I had a white crusty substance inside the valve guides. They really didn't want to open up the guides anymore because they had the clearance perfect. They put 45 lbs air pressure in the head and are letting it sit overnight, he said it sat today with 45 lbs and it didn't throw the first bubble. He said thats about three times the pressure they normally put on them to check for leaks. He also said any head that's been ported needed to be checked extra close. They can't figure out how that much water got onto the valve enough to leave rust pits in it.
I got antifreeze in the oil when I took the head off so when I refire the engine I think I'll put a real light weight oil in it along with some kind of gas treatment. You know the rest of the engine has to be like that too. Jim
PS Now, selling that 1970 Boss 302 Mustang wasn't one of your better ideas, was it.
As far as Chevy parts go, I have a Delco Remy electric wiper motor on my 57. I needed to know something about it once so I joined the TRI-Five website so I could ask questions. I didn't use my real name though. I used the name James Potter.
Lol...thats low, Jim....low. :twak:
Any vehicles or toys sitting for any length of time need to have some storage solution in the gas. Drive it around and make sure it is in the carb and fuel system. I use sea foam in my snowmobiles, and when I park my T-bird over winter. Haven't had a fuel related issue since. That also includes weed wackers, mowers, saws, whatever burns gas. Mark
Jim, that is too funny!
Sold the Boss to my youngest brother with the understanding that he calls me if he had to sell it....I don't need to tell you the rest of the story......
The seafoam seems to work better with ethanol laced gasoline than the old Stabil. It does not work at all with E-10 or E-15. That junk is a menace to older cars with carburetors, man...It is getting harder to find 100% gasoline around here. Luckily, there is a little mom and pop place about 3 miles from me that still has 100% pure gas. Costs about .20 more per gallon, but it lasts longer and doesnt foul up my fuel system...
Jim:
I may have some problems in the fuel tank and lines, but I think the carb is OK. I took the carb over to my Dyno guy and he re-jetted it based on the last dyno runs used for a baseline after Rick and I tore down the blower box and plumbing from the blower to the blower box. I guess the rest of the fuel system could be suspect though. I'm not too sure how much ethanol is used in the COSTCO gas I've been using, but if I had my guess it's probably whatever they'll allow. But then, out here in "smogville USA" maybe it is less than where you guy are. lol
Any good suggestions for flushing out the system???
Bob
57 AGIN
Bob,
It dawned on me where the water came from that rusted the valve. This is a little long but it's going to make a point. When I built the airplane I installed a oil/water seperator in the crankcase vent line and routed the vent back into the oil dipstick tube. I caught the water in a jug which I had fastened to the firewall. By doing this I kept the vent line from blowing oil on the belly of the airplane. Every month I'd catch about a quart of water in that jug. The winter months were the worst. That Lycoming O-320 engine was a big money item and you had to take care of it. I later did away with that system because I found out that I wasn't getting rid of all the water. Now, to my point. ANYONE THAT OWNS A AIRCRAFT ENGINE KNOWS THAT YOU DON'T START AN AIRCRAFT ENGINE UNLESS YOU INTEND TO RUN IT FOR AT LEAST AN HOUR AT 65-75% POWER SETTING. THIS IS BECAUSE YOU CAN'T GET RID OF THE MOISTURE YOU MAKE BY STARTING A COLD ENGINE UNLESS THE OIL TEMP STAYS AT 180 DEGREES FOR AROUND AN HOUR. The inside of an aircraft engine has metal parts and they will rust on you if you have moisture in the engine and oil, especially the cam.
What my painter did was start the engine and move the car around without letting it get fully warmed up. The white stuff they found in the engine was more than likely the residue off ethenal gasoiline. I'm just thankful I didn't let it sit longer.
I hope you have better luck. Jim
"I used the name James Potter" You old guy's are funny.
lol...old? Hey, who are you calling old?
F57ORD,
You didn't think I would let the "OLD" comment get by so easily did you. I've been down the 1/4mile 13 times now and my reaction times varied from -.002 to .228. The .228 I got while I was reading a newpaper waiting on the third yellow light to come on at Edgewater. Now, how old is that. Jim LOL PS It was an artical on Geritol.
You tell him James, I'm so mad I can't. LOL
Quote from: F570RD on 2011-09-23 19:25
"I used the name James Potter" You old guy's are funny.
Yeah, but the really funny part is that when I joined a Chebby website because my son is wanting to build a '69 Impala (?), I used the name Jim Nolan.
LOL....
Don't know about old, but I was 16 when my 57 was new :003:
Back to serious. What would be good to put in the oil to help get rid of the residue in the valve guides. Also what would you put in the gas tank. I've already bought 5W-20 oil to put in it at startup. James mentioned Seafoam but is that just for storage or do you use it for a running motor. Jim
I've used it on both storage, and as an additive to help fix a fuel system problem. Yes I guess ok for running engines. Mark
Update,
I got the engine back together on the 63 Galaxie, ran great. I set the carb and timing and got 15 inches manifold pressure at 600 rpm. That's two more inches manifold pressure than when I first put it together. Don't know why. Anyway, drove it around the block, came back and oil was leaking out of the front cork seal of the intake. Cork seal slid out of alignment during assembly. Tore it all down, started over. Used trim adhesive to cement cork to block before I try to put the intake on. I'm not upset that I didn't see the gasket was out before I assembled it. Doesn't bother me at all. I enjoy doing things twice. In fact, I'm getting used to it. But, I am taking my 38 with me tomorrow just in case it leaks again. Jim
PS. I called my painter and told him what happened to my engine while it sat at his place waiting for him to paint the car. I told him I didn't blame him a bit for the rust on the valves or the valves seizing in the guides. I told him I blamed myself for being stupid enough to let him jerk me around for two years to begin with.
Many racers use rtv or some kind of silicone on chevy smallblocks, instead of the cork gaskets on each end. Don't know if it would work on a ford FE engine. Mark
Edelbrock suggests the RTV instead of cork on their intakes. But this is a vintage 63 aluminum 427 intake. The Ford books I have show cork being used with RTV on the corners and water passages of the intake. Jim
Ah yes, its all coming back to me. Its been a long time since I bolted an intake on an FE. Scarcity of good FE parts caused me to switch to brand X for racing in 81. Forgive me father for I have sinned.Mark
This may be heresy but I'm not into brand fanaticism. Most of the Chevy people I know are. The reception I get at the drag strip as well as the car shows by most people is favoritable. It's not uncommon for me to tell a chevy owner how nice his car is at a show. But that same guy wouldn't say anything favoritable about my car if his life depended on it.
Most Ford people I know sink money into a car because they like that car, not because everyone else has one. The tri-five chevy's will bring more money and are more sought after than the 57 Fords because they have a bigger FOLLOWING. The key word is FOLLOWING in the previous sentence and I've never been a follower. Besides that, the only time you see a tri-five chevy is at a car show. If you didn't go to car shows you wouldn't know they existed. I know I sure as hell wouldn't hold my breath until a tri-five chevy pulled up beside me on the street. Jim
I've said it before, I'll say it again: I prefer Fords, and would choose one overany GM most of the time, but I do like me a '61 Impala bubbletop....I can pretty much guarantee I wont ever have one though, as most Chevrolet owners seem to think that their mass produced automobile is a one of one built and price it accordingly. I dont see me ever paying the kind of money these clowns are asking for their junk.
Hey Jim, I promised you a picture of a 63 boxtop. I posted some over on the Y blocks forever site and Ron Wood has some better ones on the FE site. Check them out over there, for some reason I have problems posting pic's over here. Lots of cool cars were at the ODRR.
Got the engine put back together. No runs, no drips and no errors. I'm happy with the way it's running. Now I got to jerk the front springs back out because you can't ride in it the way it is. It's just great for drag racing but my but would get tired after a little bit in that car. I've got to soften up the ride. I took these pictures today. Jim