Guys,
I've got a complaint with my exhaust system and I don't understand it. It doesn't make noise. It doesn't rumble, it doesn't sound throaty, nothing. It's quit.
I'm running the MadDog headers ( 2" primarys and 3 1/2" collector) into 2 1/2" X-Pipes threw Hooker Free Flow Mufflers and 2 1/2" exhaust all the way out the back. The motor sits there and lopes at idle and the only way you could tell it was a healthy motor is if you tell someone. They wouldn't know it by listening to it. I think it sounds like a six cylinder hitting on only four cylinders. What gives, have I got too big of an exhaust system. The 57 has 2 1/4" exhaust without the X-Pypes with Hooker muffers and it sounds better. Jim
The 2" primarys might take a little bite out of it. My 27 liked 1 7/8 and sounded a little better.
Should still sound like a Hot Rod though. My 29 sounds good even with the big diam. pipe.
Lots of compression and a big cam go a. Long way to making the sound you want. 406s came with about 11:1 or so and sounded hateful with the stock camshaft, which was a pretty good size stick itself. If you have anything other than real flat top pistons with no valve reliefs, using those 406 heads, it will probably only have 9.5 maybe 10:1. Depending on the @ .050 duration specs, it may sound docile. My junk always sounds hateful because I firmly believe that tailpipes were invented for women, and do no have them on anything of mine. Havent had them on anything of mine for around 20 years. I just dont like them, sorta turns a cool hotrod into a grampa car. Anyway, I tend to choose a camshaft by opening a catalog, finding my engine, and go to the very last one on the list, then go up one. You know, the one that doesnt work with power brakes, stock convertors, or less than 4.11 gears, neither of which apply to me, as automatics were also invented for women. Unfortunately, however, that approach has gotten me nailed by "the man". Its a worthwhile tradeoff.
James,
You're probably right, but this engine still should sound better than my 57. It's got to be making horsepower. I made a list of the differences between my engine and a 406: Jim
My cam=282/296 dur .500/.500 lift, 114 LS/109 ICL, 61 deg overlap----406 cam=306/306 dur .500/.500 lift, 114 LS/113 ICL, 78 deg overlap.
Heads= Both use 65cc 2.03/1.66 valves C3AE-C heads.
My Compression= 10.53 ----- 406 compression= 10.50 to 11.0 depending which book you read.
My pistons= Forged w/10cc valve relief 406 piston= Flat top
My Block= 396ci 406 Block= 406ci
Intake= Both use 1963 Aluminum 427 single 4V Low Rise
My Horsepower= ? 406 Horsepower= 385
Jim:
Overlap is what makes a cam lumpy at idle, and the 406 has the advantage there. When I had the exhaust system put on my '63 427, I specified 2 1/2" pipes and mufflers. The mufflers they installed were 2 1/2", but were universal mufflers with about 1 3/4" internals with 2 1/2" nipples. Terrible. Also, the location of the mufflers at the very rear of the car affects the sound.
John
John,
When I wrote the last post I had to dig out the books and input the 406 specs in my cam calculator. I hadn't figured OVERLAP until then. There's a big difference between 61 and 78. When I had Lunati build the cam I had two specific parameters they had to meet. The power had to be made within a 5000 rpm limit and I had to be able to use 89 octane gas. The 406 obtains it's horsepower at 5800 rpm.
I should be greatful that the engine idles at 600 rpm and when you put it into drive or reverse it transfers without a clunking sound. As soon as you get to 800 rpm the motor is smooth as silk. I'm sure the mufflers I have are something like you described they put on your 427. I should have went with FlowMasters and not the Hookers.
I JUST WISH IT HAD SOME SOUND TO IT WHEN YOU GO TO THE BACK OF THE CAR. I included an audio tape of the sound coming out the tailpipes. It's automatically playing as you read this. Jim
The X-pipe will tone it down a bit to. From what Iv'e listened to it tends to make a higher pitch sound especially when you really tramp on it.
Part of the reason I went with an H-pipe instead.
lol..you're right..it is quiet. Jim..in between your vendor/supplier rants you've got a hell of a sense of humor. Rich
You dont have too big an exhaust system Jim. My 351 stroker in my last `57 had 3 inch with 2 chamber flowmasters, 3" in and out, with 1 3/4 primary tubes, 3 1/2 inch collectors, no tailpipes, just turndowns, or dumps. The entire exhaust system was something like 6 ft long, and was obnoxious sounding. Check out this video of it running at Gulfport...
http://www.youtube.com/user/57Custom406?feature=mhee#p/a/u/1/1fC6tTXeI-w
Never mind the crap burnout, my fuse in my linelock had blown, and I couldnt get a decent burnout, so I said heck with it and just ran it. It ran the quickest pass of the day, 11.31 at 121...enough to get me booted for no roll bar, lol.
Sound is really the be all end all though, it does make a lot of difference to me..I like to hear my car, it helps to know what its doing when you're flogging it. I dont really care for a quiet car at all, and my wife just cant understand that. She didnt much care for the yellow car, as it was "too loud" for her liking. I didnt have any kind of stereo in it, you couldnt have heard it anyway. I love my row of delete plates, lol.
James,
The exhaust system just has me baffled. I look at that engine now as a good running engine that doesn't idle worth crap. The transmission was fun for a couple of weeks but now when you're going slow in traffic you get tired of whiplash when it changes gears ( a racing C6, what was I thinking ). I got stuck in traffic yesterday for about 20 minutes and I watched the heat guage go up to @ 200 degrees ( Griffin, here I come ). The new interior is on its way and I've still got the trim to polish and paint. The motor has about 300 miles on it now so it should be broke in enough to let sit for a while. The 63 needs to belong to someone that can appreciate it and bring it up to what they want the way I did my 57. That person ain't me. Not as long as I'm able to drive the 57.
My attention now is going to be focused on the 57 now. I'm going to put the Streetmaster intake on it. I'm going to keep the 570cfm carb that has 54 primary jets and 65 secondary jets and gets over 20mpg. The new heads and cam I've got for it will stay on the shelf. Also, the headers I bought are going to be installed. That should make the car a consistant high 14 second car that you can take on a trip in comfort, get stuck in traffic without overheating and take to a show with pride.
Also, if you see me at a drag strip and I'm changing tire pressure in the stagging lanes or using some little gadget that tells humidity be sure to tell me I'm taking myself to seriously. Jim PS. Rich, I'm this close () to losing my sense of humor completely over this 63. It's a nice car but it's been an absolute headache from the get-go. It's not turning out to be what I wanted and it's not a venders fault, it's mine.
If it gets to the point of making you angry or upset, its time to send it down the road. Polish the trim, pop it on, and send it on to someone else. Life's too short to let a car spoil it...enjoy that 57 and move on.
James,
I read your post and then I went back and read mine. You are absolutely right. I hate that car. I'll finish it out this winter and send it down the road. Jim
Edit: 10/13/2011 UPDATE. Since this post the engine has about 500 miles on it now. Re-curved the distributer and it runs great now. The idle don't bother me anymore, if fact it's neat. The whiplash is getting better now that theres a little bit of time on the transmission. Also, if you accelerate and don't baby it the whiplash is less. Initial timing is at 8 degrees and it has to use 89 octane to keep from rattling the valves. Power is awesome. Looks like 12-14mpg right now. I put stock coil springs in front and had the wheels aligned. Drives and rides great. I'll put new rear springs on it this winter. Air conditioner works great. I'm beginning to enjoy the car. I'll probably not race the car and end up putting a higher rear end in it. Jim
Jim the exhaust note is partly due to the displacement. Larger cubes require more over lap and duration to get the really "BAD" sound you are looking for. The 428 SCJ was a bad mofo and didn't sound like it had anything under the hood, even with headers and open pipes. Don't let a little thing like "Hot Rod" noise get you off track.....I kinda like the "sleeper" approach to killing folks on the street!
Blue Blood,
The exhaust sound was something I was looking forward to. It just ain't there. I'll live with it. The car was originally intended for drag racing. I put a motor, transmission, exhaust system and rear end together just for that purpose. I never intended for the car to be a show car or a driver. Then, the average paint job I intended to put on the car turned into a work of art by my painter because he thought the rust free body deserved it. After two years of waiting for this dildo to finish my 63 I got tired of waiting and added stuff to my 57 so I could enjoy the drag racing I wanted to do two years earlier when the idiot said my 63 would be painted. I've got a griffin radiator and a transmission cooler to put on the 63 and then I'll decide it's fate. If I keep the 63 it'll be a nice drag car and local car show vehicle only. Jim PS I appologize for ranting and raving. I'm wanting this car to be as versitale as the 57 and it's not got the transmission to do that.
Jim:
I can relate to your feelings about the '63. When I got my '63 fastback XL R code, I was excited to get going on a frame on restoration. When I finished it 4 or 5 years ago, I found it wasn't as much fun as I had perceived, gas got way over 3$ for regular and it wanted premium. Dual fours and four speed are not especially town driving pleasures. I probably have not put 200 miles on it in 4 years. Stupid car for me to own, license, and insure.
John
hi Jim, have you thought about what they call dyno or turbo flow mufflers 2 chamber?, have them on my mustang and i get compliments all the time, of course its only a 351w stock, 040 over and thats it, but it sounds good, jerry
John,
You have sumed up the feelings I'm having toward the car now. It idles and runs better now that I've re-curved the distributor and adjusted the vacuum advance cannister. But, this car will end up being like the many that you see at car shows that's fun to look at but can't be driven for any distance in comfort. Like you, I'll keep it, insure it and maybe drive it occasionally and wonder to myself, what was I thinking. Jim
Guys,
It's time to put this thread to rest. I appreciate every response and piece of advice I've gotten.
I've learned an important lesson with this 63 Galaxie. When I built the 57 Fairlane I did it because I really loved the make and model plus it was the car I learned to drive with. I had fond memories of those days. I could relate to the 57.
The 63 Galaxie was a car I admired. The lesson I've learned is " don't throw money at something you admire, you'll might resent it later. And, it doesn't matter how much money you throw at something you love, you'll never resent it". Jim
Jim..I think sound is a HUGE portion of our pleasures we derive from our street rods. To me, the late model mustang gt's are some of the best sounding cars on the road and I'll be extremly disapointed if I can't get my '57 to sound at least similar. That's one of the reasons I chose the 4.6 dohc. Your experiences with the '63 not sounding like you want has made me aware I need to look into what I'm doing more extensively before I start the install if it ever happens.
No need to apologize for the rants..friends are for listening..and the rants are entertaining besides. None of us want to feel like we're the only ones who don't get things right the first time.
Rich
hi Jim, i gave u the wrong names for mufflers, there called flowmaster, american thunder, 2 chamber, #40 series, i'm checking on them for the 57, jerry
Jerry,
It's been two years since I installed the mufflers and XPypes crossover. I now recall why I chose what I did. The Hooker Max Flow mufflers flowed considerable more CFM than anything else on the market. They were also one of the quitest mufflers on the market. And the XPypes Crossover eliminates the exhaust pulses coming out of the engine. The Hooker Max Flow muffler is a straight through design that is packed with a resonance eliminating material. That material in time will burn away enough to increase loudness. As evidenced by this last tank of gas I put through the car. I have exhaust tone now. Not where I want it, but it's coming. It's throaty and deep (especially at idle). I just need to drive the car.
I'm getting old and forgetting things. This muffler choice is an example. I ran across the flow charts for performance mufflers and also the Hot Rod artical praising the Max Flow ( the same information that I used to make my choice two years ago ). I had actually forgotten what I even had on the car. Not being around the car in two years don't help. Jim
PS. If you google Hooker Max Flow you'll find the flow comparison of all the mufflers, XPypes describes the effect on thier crossover also. I made the choice two years ago to go with performance instead of rumble. I had just forgot.