I sit here watching Barrett Jackson and some real truths become evident. People that collect cars prefer anything except a Ford. People that invest in old cars pick anything except a Ford. Chevrolets seem to dominate the hot rod, collector car and car show circuit. I was wondering why you guys think this is so. My belief is that it started in 1955 when Chevrolet introduced the small block V8. I think that motor influenced generations to come by being so versatile. But, if memory serves me correct Chevrolet outsold Ford when they didn't have a V8 also. So, why do people prefer Chevy's guys. Jim PS Tasteless, stupid and uniformed can't be an answer. LOL
never liked chevies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, but the new camaro is nice, still wouldn't buy a chevie
there is just no accountin for taste. You must remember that if everyone had good automotive taste and judgement, there wouldn't be near enough Fords to go around. I find that the seemingly endless streem of Camaro after Chevelle after camero as well as some of the mindless "facts" from the talking heads has made the program almost un-watchable ,for me. I Tevo the thing and cover most of it in fast forward, stopping if anything interesting comes along. I was able to view the first two 5 hour shows in 40 min. ea.
Guys:
It is definitely an interesting question, especially since Ford did out sell Brand X in 1957. I do think it comes down to the small block Chevy's versatility and ease of getting more horses out of it than in the Y-blocks and even the later FE's. The Y-blocks could be made to run really strong, but it took more skills, savvy and $ to do so. Whether the design flaws in the Ford's cowl drain and other areas leading to rusting didn't occur in the Chevys or not could be another question or answer. Personally, I loved the lines of the 57 Fords from day one. I was in the 8Th grade and just starting to read Hot Rod and get interested in cars. Plus my folks had just bought a 57 Del Rio that I got to throw papers off the tailgate when it was raining (you know it rains so much in So Cal and I was a pampered lad). lol
But who cares??? Let them collect the Chevys and sell them at the auctions. Remember, they are just Chevys and we DRIVE a CLASSIC that not everyone has. Anyway, just my 2 cents.
The american public can be sold anything if you keep pushing the product in front of them. GM used the press and after market to convince the consumer that the small block scrub engine was the best thing since sliced bread. I worked at a Ford dealership in the 60's/70's, right down the street was the Chevrolet dealership. I had a buddy that worked for the scrub dealer and I remember going down there and looking at the mountain of blocks and engines that they had replaced under warrinty. I can only remember two engines that we replaced and one of them was a 70 Boss 302, and the other was a 352 that was using quite a bit of oil. To keep the customer happy we replace the engine rather than reringing.
Ya know , I like Chevys, But there is something about an old ford that just draws me to them. I dont know what it is but I cant help it.
In Eastern Kentucky where I grew up the family's I grew up around were partial to Fords. We lived in shacks and had new cars sitting in the drive way. I kid you not. My Grandfather was like that. People bought Fords or Mercury's. If a young man with a family bought a new car it was more than likely a Ford with a Z code engine and 4 speed. But, the hot rods were more than likely Chevy's. I remember in 64 the GTO's started popping up and then the Chevelle's a couple years after that. The big Galaxie's seemed in decline and the intermediate size GM products started taking over. Jim
Moderator.....Please destroy this thread :s-chainsaw:...lol
I do what 57 imposter does record it and buzz through all the crap, as far as whats more popular there has always been more fords out there from the twenties through the forties a lot of them have chevy motors , which brings up a point , the guy up on the auction block describing the cars was definably a ford guy when ever there was a chevy in a ford he was a little disappointed . There was a 56 f100 with a big block chevy tilt bed tilt front end chrome everywhere sold for 53k and a 56 f100 that he was sure to point out had a ford in a ford with a 351 Cleveland that sold for 78k . It was also pointed out that there were 50k 57 birds produced and 15k 57 vettes produced and the birds were bringing more money. One more thing a 67 mustang fastback (Elenore) look a like sold for 220k compared to a real 68 shelby GT500 convert for 190k ?
As someone else pointed out volume has a lot to do with recognition. I think maybe the small block motor keep the old chevys from being crushed. And, once saved from the junk yard it was just a matter of conveniance and availability that led to popularity. After all, the consumer in 1957 gave resounding approval to the 1957 Ford over the 1957 Chevy. So the 57 chevy sure as _ _ _ _ didn't start out as popular. As far as style,comfort and engineering acomplishments were concerned the 57 Ford surpassed the chevy by leaps and bounds. Time doesn't take that away. So, it's got to be the engine that led to availability by numbers that resulted in the chevys popularity among later generations. Jim PS. Now you can take the thread off if you want to James. I'd hate to see someone google " why people like chevy's" and end up finding us. Would look a little odd coming from a 57 Ford web site.
A lot of the reason, Jim, is that Chevrolet was a bit better at marketing. They went after the youth market earlier, where Ford kept building cars for old people. I can't remember the Ford exec that said it prior to the mustang's release, but he said, "you can sell a youg man's car to an older person, but you'll never sell an old person car to a young person." Wise words, hence we got the 65 Mustang, and the tables were turned. Another reason, is that Chevrolet supported their racers, with good hardware. Ford never got a decent pair of heads for the small block until the Boss 302, and they were really overkill, and there weren't a lot of them built. Ford has always been good about that: build a total brute, but only make 6 or 700 of them. How many 396-375 hp Camaros were built vs the 428 Mustangs that could compete with them? Sorry, but the 390 Mustang couldnt compete with the 396 Camaro, mainly because of the sorry heads and exhaust manifolds that Ford put on them to fit those shock towers. Instead of building cars for the masses that really performed well, they built a 5% heavy hitters that could slaughter the competition, and 95% donkeys that got trounced on the street. Thinik about it, hown many 390 4V galaxies did Ford build compared to the brute 427 2X4v galaxies?, then how many regular 427 2X4 Galaxies did Ford build compared to factory lightweight 427 2x4? See what I mean? In `68, when Ford released the 428 CJ, it was an instant killer. How many 428 CJ Mustangs were built? Check the figures, there were more Shelby GT 500KR (428 Cobra Jet) cars built than regular Mustangs...that's right, a regular vanilla Mustang is more rare and valuable than a real Shelby GT 500KR...Ford didn't use gearhead logic when it built cars back then, and they haven't learned anything. It seems they have been and still are more interested in building instant collectors items than building cars that people want....That's my opinion...
Good post. True
to Jp, now don't get mad Bill, I'm not being sarcastic, alot of what u say is true, but look at who got the bailouts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, don't forget i worked at fords for 32 years, jerry
On December 8, 2008 Ford dropped a bombshell on Congress. They told the government they didn't necessarily NEED a bailout. They asked that Congress make up to $9 billion available in a 'bridge loan', but told Congress they may not use it. (It's actually a line of credit on a ten-year revolving account, and it must be paid back in regular installments.)
To date, Ford has not taken the money, and it looks like they won't have to, anyway. This happens when a company sees the future, listens to the public, and moves toward both with intelligence.
Ten Reasons Ford is Prospering in the Midst of a Recession:
1) They Saw It Coming - Ford did not wait for the economic crisis to hit before they started restructuring the way they do business. By the time the crisis hit, they were in much better shape than their competitors. They expect to make a profit, or at least break even, through 2011.
2) They Actually SUPPORT Their American Competitors - Eighty percent of the people who own a Ford dealership also own a competitor's dealership. Ford does NOT want Chrysler or GM to go bankrupt, saying this would hurt rather than help them.
3) No Wall Street Greed in Dearborn, Michigan - Ford is canceling all bonuses to be paid in 2009 for all management employees worldwide and foregoing bonuses for all employees in North America. The company also will not pay merit increases for North America salaried employees in 2009.
4) America First - The company is going American all the way, on a worldwide basis. Since 2007, Ford has sold their interests in Aston Martin, Jaguar, Land Rover and the majority of its stake in Mazda. They are actively pursuing selling their stake in Volvo as well.
5) Goin' Green For Real - They have committed $14 billion dollars in new funding for the development of alternative technologies to both power cars and make them more fuel-efficient. How efficient? From its largest light duty trucks to its smallest cars, Ford will improve the fuel economy of its fleet an average of 14 percent for 2009 models, 26 percent for 2012 models and 36 percent for 2015 models. They estimate a savings of 16 billion gallons of fuel for America over the next ten years.
6) Goin' Green For Real at a Realistic Price - In 2010 Ford will introduce an all-electric van suitable for fleet work, and in 2011, an all-electric sedan. They claim that by reducing overhead now, they can make these vehicles comparable in cost to gasoline vehicles. Ford is on the fast-track for this project, and they are investing heavily in electric. They have also heard the complaints about cost, lack of range, and small size. They say they are addressing these issues fully.
7) Slimming and Trimming - Ford is selling its five corporate aircraft. The CEO says he will work for a dollar a year. Enough said.
8) Painful, but Smart Restructuring - Ford has consolidated its suppliers by more than 50%. Although this did put some people out of work, Ford says they had too many parts spread out over too many companies. They tried to favor American companies when making the decisions about cuts, although they do build cars in other countries. Mainly, they tried to keep it local wherever they could. In addition, since demand for cars is down, especially gasoline-only vehicles, Ford has closed a total of six plants. They may re-open these later when the economy recovers and hybrids and electrics become the norm.
9) They've Seen the Future - Ford has announced that a full 80% of funding for all NEW vehicles will be for hybrids or full-electric vehicles. Basically, they are phasing out gasoline-only vehicles, which will soon be in the minority at the Ford dealerships.
10) Using Obama's Plan to Their Advantage - Half of the Ford, Lincoln and Mercury light-duty vehicles by 2010 will qualify as 'Advanced Technology Vehicles'. ? increasing to 75 percent in 2011 and more than 90 percent in 2014. This would qualify them for investments under President Obama's green technology plan. Couple that with their own $14 billion investment in green tech and you have a car company who is definitely going to emerge from the recession even stronger than before.
Jerry, you are right about how things are done today at Ford. Jim
I think a lot of the of the discrepancy is due simply to size. +The chev small block is considerably shorter than the SB ford. to put a chev in any 30's vintage car you almost allways have to use a set back firewall. When doing that in a car with almost no leg room to begin with you really want to set it back the minimum required to clear the radiator. the other reason ,I believe, is just taking the easy way out. You will probably have to do a little more head scratching to put a Ford in your project. Before I started cutting up my 58 I finished a 61 unibody with a 4.6GT and a 4r75w transmission. I will guarantee you that a 350 would have been done in half the time.
One of my kids has gone to the "dark side", she married a GM guy, the other two are staying faithful! They all three have claims on my Ford stuff.
The collector car difference is in my humble opinion is due to cost and availability of parts. Many folks are like sheep, see a fellow win a nice trophy and he wants one....so out he goes looking for a car to "fix" up. With an over whelming abundance of GM after market suppliers (past and present) it is only natural to go the easy route. Fads are what drives many mind sets. Look at Hot Rods, in the 50s if you didn't have a 32 or a 40 you didn't have a hot rod. Twenty years (or more) ago if you didn't have (insert car name here) you were not cool, no chance of seeing your car in a magazine so into the flock you went. Ten years ago getting Ford sheet metal was getting better, twenty years ago it was nearly impossible to get the stuff. Mustangs opened the door for Ford products. Look at EMS and the stuff they have brought on line in the last ten years.
Ford sheet metal is still hard to come by. Try building a full sized 1960 Ford! Just about everything has to be scrounged up! Need a Camero part, hit the net, it is there new, same for many other GM makes and models. I don't expect it will change much. I just do what I like and the heck with the rest, awards don't mean a thing, attention isn't my thing, just like to work on Fords and put up with the head aches that come along with that.
Blue Blood,
Good points. The part about sheep is how I feel. I look at the Ford restorer as a guy that had some relationship to the car he choose or at least a favoritizism to a brand he liked growing up, not a guy that wanted to be like everyone else either for convienance or less effort and money in restoration. I hold in esteem the guy that shows up at a car show with a 57 Studabaker Hawk. I can enjoy looking at his car. I understand his commitment and challanges concerned with the restoration of a car like that. My Grandmother taught me how to drive on a 57 Fairlane 500. I always dreamed about restoring a 57 Fairlane 500, not a custom, not a 4 door Fairlane 500, not a convertable or flip-top, but the Club Victoria I learned to drive on. And, if it hadn't been for my wife it'd be a two tone blue one. Many a time I wished it had been the tri-five Fords instead of the Chevy's that were more popular. Restoration would have been easier. Jim
Jerry, I'm not a Chevy or GM fan by any means, and certainly not a fan of those responsible for bailing them out. I always thought it was a bad marketing decision by Ford to not support the people who were buying their performance cars. In the end though, it's the bean counters who win: if it costs too much, it's not gonna happen.
I'll bet most of your parents drove fords, I sort of caught that influence at a young age. I always liked something a little different, my high school car was a 68 cougar. I raced fords as long as I could before joining the dark side. The 406, 427 stuff got pretty scarce in the late 70's early 80's, I always geared the ford a little conservative which hurt me in qualifying. Chevy guys could look in the Sunday paper, and find a dozen race engines for sale.This fall at two different cruise nights, I had a guy regale me on how I should have a chevy. I said I couldn't afford a tri-5 chevy in comparable condition, and why don't you go offer your knowledge to someone with a Japanese or Korean car? I think the big three lost generations of car buyers by building so much junk in the 80's All the kids want to drive what there parents drove. Mark
Chevy has always marketed better, I remember reading an article years ago talking withe the original team that designed the SBC and how even the oil pan design was to take business away from Ford. Having a rear sump pan made the chev into a ford swap easy into any ford flathead v8 equipped car. And chevy was giving away that market to the other GM divisions specially oldsmobile. And they were smart enough to make that a priority from day one.
One thing I've observed over the years reading the car mags is how cheap and easy to get horsepower from any chev motor. For years lots of magazines would do the big 3 engine build shootouts. If a dollar limit was set Chevy always won. The SBC is the darling of the aftermarket industry and has been from day one. Look in the catalogs the guys that build performance parts always make it first for chev then for ford then chrysler, and the price scale follows the order. When the shootouts limited the mods to specifics not dollars Chrysler SBs often came out ahead
Even today look at the LS series SBCs and how cheap all the mags are adding horsepower on junkyard motors. Then pick up a Mustang magazine and see how costly it is to build power from a MOD motor.
I'm a car guy but 57 fords are what I drove in highschool, have loved them from an early age. Not real fond of the large line. Proportions and the fins are off for my taste. I will always walk away from a Fairlane if there is a custom to look at anywhere. Have owned a few 57-8 fairlanes and they were ok but a custom business coupe that gives me wood, simple as that.
I've owned all kinds of cars even a couple of tri 5 chevs, they were just transportation but 57fords were much more to me. Almost like that first kiss.
But someone remind me why we are wasting time talking about chevy on this site ?
Quote from: Zapato on 2012-01-22 16:16
But someone remind me why we are wasting time talking about chevy on this site ?
You're right. I know one guy on here that's probably went out in the barn and hung himself already. I was sort of hoping he'd chime in and let me know he was OK. LOL Jim
I've never really had a preference for any of the big three...I've owned them all. Most of the new cars purchased years ago were Fords only because the local Ford dealers were easier to make a good deal with than the GM dealers.
When it came time to build the classic restoration however, the choice was easy. First, the '57 custom kinda fell into my lap at the time, and honestly,I had been away from the classics/customs for many years so I wasn't even aware of how good a "choice" it ended up being. To me, a person has a classic because of the nostalgia, and because you want something different. When I started getting back into the classics and going to car shows I realized how common the tri-five chevs have become....something for me that kicks them out of the 'wanting something different' category.
I suspect alot of the chev popularity started with a small group of Calif.people publishing the national hotrodding magazines.
Rich
Alot of good replys here. JPotter57's statement that Ford builds cars for "old people" is something I've heard for awhile. As far as Barret-Jackson goes, those bidders aren't "car guys". Especially the ones that buy multiple cars. I bet they are all for resale. How many of us here have the $$$ to buy some of those cars. I think they did a little better job this year not showing every Chevelle & Corvette that came across the block. Its like some car shows out there, how many of those cars can you look at. Lemmings. They all took the easy way out. Anything worth having doesnt come easy.
I live in a small city compared to some of you,but there are a lot of car shows and cruise ins around here.At any given one there are as many if not more Fords than c evys.Now as far as 57 fords go, I only know of 6 counting mine in this area.At the shop I work at any c evy streetrod we build (thats not going original) seems to always get a mustang II frontend and a ford 9" rearend.I have a 48 ford f1 pickup with a 302 all streetroded out that I have shown for years,last summer there was a newly built 49 ford f1 (not from around here) that came to one of the local cruise ins and ended up parking beside of me. Was a very nice truck until he opned the hood and there sat a 350 c evy motor in it.All I heard from him all evening was about his c evy motor and how come I didnt run a c evy motor.I got the inpression he was kind of trying to get under my skin.I finnaly ask him why he used a c evy motor and he replyed, " well Im really a c evy man".I told him he wasnt a true c evy man or he would have built a c evy truck instead or a ford.He didnt have much to say the rest of the evening.We build all brands at work an each one of us at some point thru the build end up driving them.I havent been in a c evy yet that I would trade one of my Fords for,and I have 5 of them.I gess you could say I was raised with it in my blood! Tarheel57 :burnout:
I think it was Doris Days fault.
:005:
Yeah, I never did buy that "see the USA in your C evrolet" stuff! :canada:
That was Diana Shore that sang "See the USA". We had " Hazel" for Gods sake.
:iamwithstupid:
oops just shows i dont know.
Okay, got to confess to having a liking of both....... Never really liked or understood the hype for the tri-Chevs, but liked the 58, 59 & 60 models, before my 57 Ranchero I spent a good few years restoring & modifying a 60 Impala sport sedan (see below). Car was originally a 348 engined car but ended up with a tuned small block & TH350, suspension was lowered by around 2" & wheels were 17" TT2's (8" wide rear & 7" fronts).
(http://imagehosting.rodsnsods.co.uk/2424f1ee2ee48c24.jpg)
(http://imagehosting.rodsnsods.co.uk/2424f1ee2ee63707.jpg)
James,
Under the heading "Started By" in the list of Threads would you please remove my name and type in "unknown". I've already gotten three death threats and I think someone poisoned my cat. LOL Jim
Quote from: JimNolan on 2012-01-24 13:32
James,
Under the heading "Started By" in the list of Threads would you please remove my name and type in "unknown". I've already gotten three death threats and I think someone poisoned my cat. LOL Jim
Best laugh of the day, thank you Mr.Nolan. sorry about the cat.
There has been an ongoing discussion in one of the Mustang magazines about Ford losing market share in the mustang/camaro/charger segment. The most common or prevalent explanation is Fords' limited and bland color selection. Most buyers in that group want FLASH as much as performance. They want to be noticed. In Fords limited color selection there is little FLASH. Hard to argue but if one looks at paint colors thru the 50s and 60s and the customs being built then more often than not the painters went to the GM color spectrum. Its almost as ole Henry's line (mentality) you can have any color as long as its black is still part of the mantra in Dearborn. Color will sell a car, and the wrong one will keep it on the lot.
IMHO one of the worst colors ever was that "salmon" found on various makes in the 50s. I parted out a 58 Fairlane because of the color. A good buddy of mine had a 56 sedan delivery ,white over salmon , that he almost junked because the color. Earl Scheib and his basic $29.99 paintjob saved that car.
Ford can regain market share by using colors that excite buyers. Not too many buyers, regardless of income, want to drive away from a dealership in a car that doesn't get noticed by others. Plain and simple our choice of cars reflect our personality or how we want others to see us. My guess is that few car buyers want to be seen as one with one foot in the geriatric ward.
Brand loyalty always fails to beauty and presentation.
I guess when you think about it we should be grateful so many others prefer chevies or we'd never be able to find decent project cars. There seems to be so few of them out there it makes you realize there never will be the availability of secondary market parts because of low demand. I often wonder why that is since ford outmanufactured chev at least in 57.
Along the same lines I am curious what you guys are using for your daily drivers. Last month we started looking for a new car for my wife. As Zap brought up, we have "one foot in the geriatric ward"..my wife just can't get into many cars easily..LOL I even had her try an '0'12 Mustang...she put one foot in, croutched a little, and said nope. We really wanted to give the big three a shot, but it just didn't work out and we ended up with an '0'12 Camry. To my surprise, the Camry is made in the USA..assembled in Indiana...only the engine is Japanese. LOL..according to the window sticker, the Camry is made from 75% made in USA parts, 15% elsewhere..(I wonder if my car is missing 10% of it's parts)
Rich
Rich,
As far as a daily driver is concerned I have three vehicles. A 1999 Chevy pick-up, a 1957 Ford Fairlane and a 1963 Ford Galaxie. The truck had 3,000 miles put on it last year. The 57 celebrates it's third birthday since the frame off in April of 2009. At that time the odometer was zeroed and now it has 30,000 miles on it. The 1963 has just completed restoration this January so not too many miles have been put on it. The 1999 pick-up is my daily driver. LOL Jim PS The cat died.
My daily varies, depends on the weather. I prefer the 08 Shelby for longer runs but mostly use the F150. My wife has her 05 Bird and runs the wheels off it (42K mostly local).
As far as the Ford Chevy thing goes I've had Fords for 65 years
and my friends are Ford folks.When we were young Fords ruled around
here. There's a few strays for sure. We didn't like 6 cyl cars.
And no you will never catch me in a Camry....the profit still goes to the Japs.
My daily is a 78 Ranchero GT. Since I retired gas milage isn't important to me.
Girlfriend drives a MBZ. She bought it :003:
I was on the "buy US" bandwagon for years, and I sure understand the keeping the profits here thing..but I'm sure also hearing of the building of factories in Mexico and Canada by at least some of the big three (GM in particular), for building cars to be sold in the U.S.. Keeping the profits here is nice, but using bailout tax dollars to build factories outside of our borders isn't too keen in my opinion...I'm more interested in the companies that keep their jobs hereI'm aware they don't pay what Detroit did in their heyday, but at least they're jobs.
We could probably argue this forever, but there is no easy solution.
My wife still works and commutes 60 miles a day to the Pantex nuclear facility, so the 35mpg in a family size sedan with a 5 star crash rating became important.
Besides...my wife's money...her car..her decision...I was just tickled to death she didn't chose the prius.
Jim...wasn't it nice of me to divert the heat from you? LOL
Rich, hope your cat is doing ok.
Zap- :unitedstates:
Rich,
I appreciate that. I sure my dog Buffy appriciates it to. I can't loose her. LOL Jim
My daily is my 61 unibody pickup...Yeah Bill and Glen, I drove the suburban up there the other day, but thats the exception, not the rule. I put about 11000 miles on my uni last year...not bad. Wife drives a fullsize Ford van.
James you know you'll be on the dark side until that Chevy goes....... :003:
My wifes daily driver is an 04 Ford escape, I take my service van home every night so my vehicles hardly get enough miles on them to change the oil. I have an 01 F-150, 87 t-bird. The T-bird doesn't get driven in the winter, repainted it 15 years ago, still turns heads as most of them are rotten around here. :004: Mark
My most-driven daily driver is a '57 Ranchero. Next would be the 289 Ford powered '53 Studebaker. Then there are the '56 and '57 T-Birds and the '63 427 Galaxie. I don't drive much anymore since I'm retired, only got down the the Galaxie once last summer. Wife's daily driver is a 2000 Chrysler miini van. She also has problems getting in and out of cars, no longer can drive the older ones.
John
My DD is a (Gasp!!) Chevy Cavalier. I have it because, well, it's a cavalier. Honestly, it was my mothers and she got a van for work and i took over the payments and now i paid it off and own it. For my DD i'm not really picky about what i drive, as long as it works, is good on gas and the parts are cheap.
As for why Chevy vs. Frod popularity stuff. I think it is due to personal influences just as much. I used to be a chevy guy, i worked at a chevy dealership, my cousin was a chevy guy and i liked chevy's. Got the 57 and now i seem to like fords, i guess i am easily influenced.