Guys: I need a little help here. I know this site is for 57 fords. (have a 70D custom in my garage under restoration) but I need some 50`s information. I have been selling off some parts from other projects locally and got a line on a very interesting car which is an estate sale. I would like you guys to help me here if you can. Can it be the real deal???? I am going to see (through a family member) a 1959 Tbird with a factory sun roof???? and if thats not enough; a 430 c/w factory 3x2 setup which includes aircleaner. Did any of these 3x2 setups ever come direct from the factory or were they in the trunk and how can I verify that it is truely original. I have read that there were a very few Tbirds that got this option, and to the writers knoledge none have surfaced. Have I located a DIAMOND here???? Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Fordaholic
from what i've read they were available from the factory. I'd buy that god aweful square beast if i were you and if you can afford it.
My centiments exactly Alex. But what I am trying to find out is! Is there anything in the tags that will tell me if it started life as a 430 or a 430 with a 3x2 pack. I don`t think so; but I may be wrong. Cheers Gary
i have no idea
None of the T-Birds came with the 3x2 opition, These came on the M400 Mercury, A very Rare set up. Is the air cleaner marked 400 H.P. or is it plain. The fuel pump is also special with 3 out lets and a trash can type spin on fuel filter. I have had a couple of these intakes in the past and I have a friend that has a couple of these on his cars. Hope this helps Tom
The 1958 Super Marauder Mercury MEL 430 engine with a 3 X 2V intake was made only that year as I can find. The intake was made for Ford Motor Company by Moon Products and the engine produced 400 horsepower. It used 3 Holley 2300 series carburators. This is the engine that provided the famous photo finish at the Daytona 500 race with Bochamp and Lee Petty. I can only find one year it was made. In 1959-1960 the 430 MEL engine was an option for the Thunderbirds but the only listing I can find is for a 1 X 4V intake and less horsepower. It was the first Ford engine to reach 400 hp. I can't find any head numbers or cam specs. It had 10.5 compression ratio. Jim PS Check the date codes on the engine and heads. It may be a 400 horse engine.
EDIt: If you go to the Website FORD-MEL-Engines.com you'll find everything there is to know about the MEL Lincoln Super Marauder Engine. Part no's., pictures etc. and yes, the intake came on the engine from the factory. But, it wasn't put in a 1959 Tbird as far as I can tell. It's a nice website to see if someone just through the intake on a lessor Horsepower engine.
A little hint...A friend of mine recently sold just the 3X2 breather assemly on ebay...He figured he'd maybe get 7-800 for it, as he had about 650 in it....Just the breather assembly, now. It was a neat aluminum job, spacing was completely different than FE 3X2 setups, and had Super Marauder on the front of it, with 400 hp at the rear. Get this..at auctions end, the breather ass'y sold for 2870....John about stroked out. If the car is complete with all that stuff, you had better grab it. John told me that the guy who had bought his breather ass'y, had just paid over 4000 for the rest of the 3X2 setup, without the breather....just insane, man...
John's breather ass'y was no where near as nice as the one above...
Guys: Thanks for the info. I`ll keep digging for as much info as I can. When I get the chance to go see this thing I want to go there with my guns loaded. If and when we go shopping I will let you all know how it pans out. Cheers Gary
There was a SQUAREBIRD 430 3 X 2 OPTION. The TBIRD (59/60) will have a J for the engine code.
:icon_pale:
!!! CORRECTION !!!-
The 430 4V 59/60 BIRD Engine Code (within VIN) was J. There was no special engine code for the BIRD 3 X 2 option/kit. I have not come across any info other than the BIRD option was available in 1959.
Also- The 1958 MERCURY 430 4V was named THE SUPER MARAUDER (360 HP). The 3 X 2 option (assembly Engine Code J MERC/LINC only) was named the SUPER MARAUDER 3 X 2 (400 HP).
At this time I have not found out if the BIRD option was offered as assembly or as an over the kit (Bill Stroppe or HM). The BIRD 3 X 2 air cleaner asm is unique to the BIRD as was the air cleaner asm for the MERC (decorated) and another for LINC (no decoration).
1960 was the only year that the sunroof option was available (GOLDE TOP) OEM (Added During Above Correction).
I saw a squarebird here in Az. with a sunroof at a car show in Prescott. 1st one I've ever seen so I had to look it over real good. The information with the car stated it was original. Looked factory to me.
Quote from: lowrider on 2012-08-03 08:53
I saw a squarebird here in Az. with a sunroof at a car show in Prescott. 1st one I've ever seen so I had to look it over real good. The information with the car stated it was original. Looked factory to me.
The 1960 BIRD sunroof was OEM.
I had a 60 thunderbird for 33 years and was a member of several clubs. The 430 was not a very good engine, because of this many 430 T-birds were not restored and now are rather rare. The reason it was not used in NASCAR in 1959 & 1960 was that 5000 rpm was it's limit, after five grand the engine became scrap rather quickly. I belive, like the Lincoln the 430 had the power streeing pump mounted so that it could be driven off the front of the crankshaft. The engine was a PITA to work on. A 430, Bird with a sun roof might be worth restoring because of there being so few left.
Quote from: Lou on 2012-08-04 04:20
I had a 60 thunderbird for 33 years and was a member of several clubs. The 430 was not a very good engine, because of this many 430 T-birds were not restored and now are rather rare. The reason it was not used in NASCAR in 1959 & 1960 was that 5000 rpm was it's limit, after five grand the engine became scrap rather quickly. I belive, like the Lincoln the 430 had the power streeing pump mounted so that it could be driven off the front of the crankshaft. The engine was a PITA to work on. A 430, Bird with a sun roof might be worth restoring because of there being so few left.
Many find the 430 an excellent engine, particularly LINC, MERC and BIRD owners.
The 430 (BIRD) was raced in 1959 by Holman-Moody and was quite successful. In 1960, FORD opted out of the racing ban and returned with the STARLINER and FE as the car was much lighter.
The 59/60 430 BIRD had a belt driven PS pump (Eaton).
The main reason that most back away from a MEL is the rebuild cost due to the unique combustion chambers requiring specialized pistons (now custom made).
Holman-Moody stared with the 430, but quickly changed to the 352 because the engine was limited 5000 rpm and was heavy, very heavy, as is outlined in "The Ford Performance book" (1962). In 1960 Ford came out with the HiPo 352 which was putting out 360 HP. Your are right in the fact that as a street engine the 430 was a very good engine, (A gas hog, but a 25 cents a gallon, no one cared). Ford went so far as to suggested it as part of a trailer towing package for the T-birds.
Lou,
Watch this video- http://blip.tv/rumble-vid/1958-mercury-430-6v-439031
Are you familiar with the 1959 NASCAR season and the success of the BIRD?
The main reason FORD did not run the MEL Engine in 1960 was that it was not available in mainline Fords.
-MEL ENGINE FORUM- (http://www.ford-mel-engine.com/)
KULTULZ, thanks for the link, do you know if that Mercury is standard or auto?
Not sure Lou, but if it was a 3/S on the tree, the driver must be good... :002:
Yes, Brian's car is a 3 on the tree. It's also a very high point restoration.
John
Just touched an Edsel with 430 w/single 4 Barrel. Original and still rolling. It will be looking for a new home fairly soon.
Brian told me that one of the guys he was running against at that event reported that Brian was spinning his tires in 3rd gear. That was a "pure stock" race that required street tires, along with only factory equipment and full exhaust system with mufflers.
He was running some ancient 800x14 bias ply tires, though the rules would allow him to run repo bias or equivalent size radials.
John
first set of new tires...the big eight and a quarters...WOW!
Quote from: gasman826 on 2012-08-05 18:12
Just touched an Edsel with 430 w/single 4 Barrel. Original and still rolling. It will be looking for a new home fairly soon.
The 1958 EDSEL (CORSAIR/CITATION) came thru with the MEL 410 (E-475).