57fordsforever.com

Hello everyone,
   I appreciate the advice on the over heat issue, I will consider all the advice carefully. I have another question, edelbrock or Holley. Dad used both on the Y block, but couldn't resist the allure of the 3-2 set up. I'm looking at a holley 4160 or a edelbrock 1404. Any suggestions?

  Tim :unitedstates:

Your Dads car still looks good. Use the one your most familiar with.

Quote from: 57 Ford Kustom on 2012-10-02 13:56... holley 4160 or a edelbrock 1404. Any suggestions?

This was a recent thread on carbs.
http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=3585.msg21497#msg21497
I have had an Autolite/Motorcraft 4 barrel on a 69 351W for years, works real good & the easiest carb there is to do any work on.
Looks like I am not the only one here that likes these carbs.

Quote from: Tom S on 2012-10-03 10:56
This was a recent thread on carbs.
http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=3585.msg21497#msg21497
I have had an Autolite/Motorcraft 4 barrel on a 69 351W for years, works real good & the easiest carb there is to do any work on.
Looks like I am not the only one here that likes these carbs.

Tom,
   My 351w came out of a 69 cougar xr7. Do you think I can use the 1.12 autolite as opposed to the 1.08? They seem to be more available than they 1.08, and at 300.00 half the price!

Quote from: 57 Ford Kustom on 2012-10-08 17:02Do you think I can use the 1.12 autolite as opposed to the 1.08? They seem to be more available than they 1.08, and at 300.00 half the price!

Sure, but it's probably more than you need & gas mileage would probably be worse.  I put my 351W into a '69 & later a '72 Econoline.  I had the 1.12 carb, headers, stick shift & 3:25 gears & my mileage sucked. 
But I never lost the stoplight drag races against, I assume, 350 powered, Chevy trucks.  They got a surprise since the 69-74 Econolines  only came with 302s.  (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/lol.gif)   That 351W still runs strong many, many years later.
Yeah, those 1.12 carbs do seem to be more plentiful.  I am sure you can get one for a lot less than $300 though.
Been a while but I got a 1.08 carb for less than $100.  Works good too.  Keep looking!
http://motors.shop.ebay.com/eBay-Motors-/6000/i.html?_nkw=autolite+4100+carburetor&_trksid=p4069.m570.l1311&_rdc=1

Quote from: Tom S on 2012-10-08 17:53
Sure, but it's probably more than you need & gas mileage would probably be worse.  I put my 351W into a '69 & later a '72 Econoline.  I had the 1.12 carb, headers, stick shift & 3:25 gears & my mileage sucked. 
But I never lost the stoplight drag races against, I assume, 350 powered, Chevy trucks.  They got a surprise since the 69-74 Econolines  only came with 302s.  (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/lol.gif)   That 351W still runs strong many, many years later.
Yeah, those 1.12 carbs do seem to be more plentiful.  I am sure you can get one for a lot less than $300 though.
Been a while but I got a 1.08 carb for less than $100.  Works good too.  Keep looking!
http://motors.shop.ebay.com/eBay-Motors-/6000/i.html?_nkw=autolite+4100+carburetor&_trksid=p4069.m570.l1311&_rdc=1

Tom,
   Sorry to keep :deadhorse: but I have an automatic tranny, can a dash pot be added to the manuel tranny version of the 4100 or is it a entirely different base plate?

Thanks agian,
Tim :unitedstates:

I don't know diddily about those dashpots but I am sure the carbs are all the same.  There is no separate base plate, the carb is a solid body with a top plate.   Like I said in the other thread, click on the pix of the carbs of the right side of the page in this site.
http://mustangtek.com/4100/ford4100.html
Also in the other thread, this 4100 service manual should answer all your questions.  Click on the pages to enlarge.
http://www.classicinlines.com/4100A.asp
A dashpot off a 2100 two barrel should work too.  2100s are very plentiful.  You can see how much alike the 2100 is to the 4100 in this 2100 service manual.  Page 1 shows a Holley carb, the wrong carb, ignore it & go to page 2..
http://www.classicinlines.com/2100A.asp

Many of the '70s Fords had a solenoid to bump the idle up when the AC was running.  The 200-300 extra RPMs would keep the engine from stalling at a stop light.  I put one on my Quick Fuels carb and wired it to a switch.  With no chock, I switched on the solenoid for warm-up and I also used it with the AC.  The solenoid could also be wired into the ignition so when the engine was turned off, the idle would be dropped to help control 'run on'.  The aftermarket offers these solenoids but they are kinda expensive.  I had several on old carbs and used them.

Quote from: Tom S on 2012-10-10 15:38
I don't know diddily about those dashpots but I am sure the carbs are all the same.  There is no separate base plate, the carb is a solid body with a top plate.   Like I said in the other thread, click on the pix of the carbs of the right side of the page in this site.
http://mustangtek.com/4100/ford4100.html
Also in the other thread, this 4100 service manual should answer all your questions.  Click on the pages to enlarge.
http://www.classicinlines.com/4100A.asp
A dashpot off a 2100 two barrel should work too.  2100s are very plentiful.  You can see how much alike the 2100 is to the 4100 in this 2100 service manual.  Page 1 shows a Holley carb, the wrong carb, ignore it & go to page 2..
http://www.classicinlines.com/2100A.asp

Tom,

   Thanks for the info, greatly appreciated!
Thanks
Tim :unitedstates:

Tom,
   just picked up a 1.08 autolite off epay, $300.00 rebuild already :burnout:. Now just looking for the Dash pot & bracket! Thans for your patience through my search for the right carb!

God Bless,
Tim :unitedstates:

maybe if i type little, not too many will notice...what's a dashpot?
jack

Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2012-10-11 18:36
maybe if i type little, not too many will notice...what's a dashpot?
jack

From what I have read (specifically on the autolite carb) The Dash pot closes the throttle plate slowly when taking your foot off the accelerator and appliing the brakes (Auto Trans.) this allows the atomized fuel to burn as opposed to being trapped in the card, causing a rough idle or stall situation. Just what I read.

Tim :unitedstates:

Quote from: 57 Ford Kustom
link=topic=3608.msg21842#msg21842 date=1349998188Now just looking for the Dash pot & bracket!

I think you can get away without that dashpot.  I am sure that a 72 Ranchero with an auto trans I ran a little bit long ago didn't have one after I swapped in a 302 I had.  No running problems.  You can try it & add the dashpot at any time.
Why do you want to lose the three two setup anyway?  Too much trouble?

i swapped the y block out for a 351w with a c4 tranny. So when the y block left so did the 3-2 set up.

Thanks,
Tim :unitedstates:

Quote from: 57 Ford Kustom on 2012-10-12 04:18
i swapped the y block out for a 351w

Oh.  That's right.  What was I thinkin'.   (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/smackhead.gif)

Tim,

I thought I promised a source for the dash-pot and bracket and now I can't find the original post.

Remember, this is an exact repro and will be expensive.

You should be able to find the correct dash-pot (C1AZ 9B549-A) on EvilBay and the brackets (B8AZ 9B550-A) were almost universal.

http://www.championmustang.com/

The purpose of the dash-pot was to allow the engine to return to idle slowly while slowing/coming to a stop as the torque converter would choke the engine down possibly causing a stall.

Thanks a bunch :hello2: you have been a huge help! one more question, I just bought a weiand intake for my 351w, once I recieved it I realized that it is listed as a 1500-6800 rpm range. With my 4100 480 cfm carb, will I have issues?
Thanks,
Tim :unitedstates:

That is a HI-RPM intake (very little low end torque). Mostly it depends on how the engine has been built but the carb (1.08) will have a difficult time keeping up with the intake @ upper RPM's.

Is it a single or dual plane intake? Can you post a model #?

It is a dual plain, weiand # 8023, The only one that I could find from them for a 351W
Thanks for all the Help!
Tim :unitedstates:

I really can't say if that is a high RPM manifold or not.  I just don't know & ain't gonna argue the point.
Look what it says under the summit link.  "... for bottom-end and mid-range power..."
Jegs says idle to 6000 RPM.
??
After I finally got Summit's CFM calculator to open up I got this for 6000 RPM. Your 480 carb ain't far off that 517 number so you might be fine for street use.  

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/Weiand8023-CFMcalc.jpg)

http://www.summitracing.com/expertadvice/popup.aspx?Control=CFMCalculator

Here is another CFM calculator.   It agrees with the Summit one.
http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/CarbCFMCalc.html
For a 351 'stock' street engine, (VE 0.85), & 5000 RPM instead of 6000 it shows 432 CFM.
At 6000 RPM it also shows 517.

QuoteI really can't say if that is a high RPM manifold or not.  I just don't know & ain't gonna argue the point.

Look what it says under the summit link.  "... for bottom-end and mid-range power..."

Jegs says idle to 6000 RPM.

I do not wish to argue in any fashion either. I should have included in my post (IMO) (In My Opinion).

QuoteWEIAND
Stealth? Intake Manifold
PART #: 8023

Features

    High Rise Dual Plane Design
    Square Carburetor Mounting Flange
    No EGR provisions
    Power band: 1500-6800 RPM
    Height: Front 4.37", Rear 5.06"
    Port Size: 1.82? height 1.05" width

SOURCE- http://www.holley.com/8023.asp

QuoteEDELBROCK
PERFORMER 351W (idle-5500 rpm)
Ford 351 Windsor V8
Designed for street 351 c.i.d. Ford Windsor V8s

PERFORMER? MANIFOLDS (Idle to 5500 rpm)
Performer manifolds are dual-plane, low-rise intake manifolds with a 180? firing order and patented runner design that you won't find in other brands. This patented design greatly improves torque over a wide rpm range for excellent throttle response, especially off-idle through the mid-range. Performers are ideal for passenger cars, trucks, 4x4s, tow vehicles and RVs. There are EGR and non-EGR versions available for most domestic V8

SOURCE- EDELBROCK Webpage- http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/manifolds/ford/performer-289.shtml

The intake chosen is for a modified street engine. It will not flow properly until 1500 RPM. Therefore it will have poor street characteristics. I don't know how much the engine has been modified, but I doubt it will ever see 6800 RPM.

The PERFOMER (IMO) would have been better choice for the engine. Carburetion does not enter into the equation until very high RPM at which point the 1.08 will not flow enough.

I had a Stealth on my 460 with plenty of low end torque.  I think Weiand is just protecting themselves.  Just like the high end RPM...6800 RPMs with power from a dual plane manifold is optimistic at best if not just plain BS.  If an engine was built to have power and torque at 6800 RPMs, it would be quite the engine and a dual plane manifold would hold it back.  For the street and the money already spent...run what you got!

Guy's,
   As usual you guy's are the greatest :laughing4:! Thanks for all your input, I need the help!

Thanks agian,
Tim :unitedstates:

Quote from: gasman826 on 2012-10-17 15:44

I had a Stealth on my 460 with plenty of low end torque.  I think Weiand is just protecting themselves. 

Just like the high end RPM...6800 RPMs with power from a dual plane manifold is optimistic at best if not just plain BS.

If an engine was built to have power and torque at 6800 RPMs, it would be quite the engine and a dual plane manifold would hold it back.  For the street and the money already spent...run what you got!

A 460 is going to have plenty of low end, regardless. So you think they are false advertising and offering products with no engineering or design testing? FORD ran dual planes on NASCAR how long?

The whole point is, his intake will produce lower torque @ low RPM. That is a fact and the way the intake is advertised.

And he now has to run what he brung. All depends on how the engine has been built.

I will probably send it back for a performer because I have no idea if Tom had modified it or not.
Thanks,
Tim :unitedstates:

Quote from: 57 Ford Kustom on 2012-10-18 05:29

I will probably send it back for a performer because I have no idea if Tom had modified it or not.

Thanks,

Tim :unitedstates:

Tim,

Don't replace it just on my comments. I am only exchanging conversation.

Now, (IMO), I think you will be better served with the performer for just a mild street engine. If he had built the engine as a thumper, you would know on the first fire-up.

Why did you swap the 312 by the way?

Aren't dual plane manifolds for low end/street use & single plane manifolds used for high rpm engines?

Here you go-

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/hardcore/0601em_intake/viewall.html

Quote from: KULTULZ on 2012-10-18 13:24
Here you go-

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/hardcore/0601em_intake/viewall.html

Thanks for the link, I think I will still send it back. It's easier than modifing the engine to match the intake!
Thanks
Tim :unitedstates:

Hey Guy's,
   I'm going to purchase a performer cam from Edelbrock, to go with the intake. I've never tackled a project like this, any suggestions?
Thanks
Tim :unitedstates:

I have the Edelbrock performer cam, intake, heads, and Edelbrock 1406 600 cfm carb on my 302. The heads really made the difference!

The Performer cam is their mildest...but will be good for a cruiser with some grunt.

My next step is to calibrate the carb since it needs more fuel while cruising. I am getting burping thru the carb while cruising slowly thru the gears.

I will know more after trying some different jets/rods/springs. I got the carb kit for a 1405 carb after reading this post...I am going to try exactly what he says this weekend...
"So here's the simple fix, toss your 1406 tuning chart, and use the Performer 1405 tuning chart.
For a mild/hot 302 engine, just start with the stock Performer 1405 tuning spec as your baseline tune;
That be, 1428 (.100) main jets, 1451 (070 x 047) metering rods, and orange springs."

Then I will go from there.

Read the whole post. My car is doing exactly what he went thru...
http://vb.foureyedpride.com/archive/index.php/t-74438.html

Best...
Rob

Rob,
   Who would have thought. Oh well, already purchased my Autolite carb, Maybe I'll hold on to the Edelbrock after all! Anything special I need to know before I replace my cam,or is it pretty straight forward?
Thanks,
Tim :unitedstates:

Tim...

Here is the 22-minute video showing us inserting and degreeing the cam...with some extra banter and adult beverage tasting...

https://vimeo.com/1296363

There's nothin' on TV anyway...your mileage may vary.

Cheers...
Rob

If your band is as good as your 'adult beverage' critiques...you must be ROCK STARS!!

Great tee shirt choice....  That OTHER guy with the claw hammer...well, each to his own.

Super video and always ready for more!

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks GasMan!

Love my Rat Fink tee shirts.

Here is my YouTube channel where most of the videos are housed of the band, Project 302, and a few others...

http://www.youtube.com/user/robhaerr

...have to keep my day job so far.

Rob

Tom S,
   I removed my edelbrock card and inake, awaiting the new intake. I noticed that my autolite 4100 didn't have a provition for the kick down cable from my c4. Do I need to find one now, or am I missing the obvious?
Thanks'
Tim :unitedstates:

Quote from: 57 Ford Kustom on 2012-10-30 20:37....my autolite 4100 didn't have a provition for the kick down cable from my c4.

Sorry, I don't know.   Everything I had the 2100s & 4100s on had stick shifts.  Maybe you can find something in those links I posted.  About the 6th post on the 1st page here.  Hmm, well, maybe not.
Look thru here.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADFA_enUS408US408&q=autolite+4100+kick+down+linkage
From some of the posts I glanced at it sounds like there is some separate linkage that attaches to the manifold & the throttle linkage. I think I'd just shift it & forget the kickdown.
I don't like automatic transmissions.

Quote from: 57 Ford Kustom on 2012-10-30 20:37

    I noticed that my autolite 4100 didn't have a provition for the kick down cable from my c4. Do I need to find one now, or am I missing the obvious?

You have a kickdown rod or LOKAR cable kit on the car now?

I only have the kick down cable. After looking at picks of 4100 carb on epay, I noticed that there apears to be a arm that  I am missing, possibly the kick down arm. When I purchased the carb it stated that it was off a 66 T bird, AT. When reading different forums, ford added it to there carb's on certain years, but not others. I'm totally confused, and frustrated. my carb is a c6sf a. Any HELP!!! will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Tim :unitedstates:

Dont know if this will help. Breakdown of the 4100 series.
http://mustangtek.com/4100/ford4100.html

Yes, I saw the pic's, but the throttle linkage on that carb is diferent from mine. Maybe the carb tag is wrong, or I'm just another victim of evil bay!
Thanks,
Tim :unitedstates:

Any suggestions on a remedy?
Thanks,
Tim :unitedstates:

Quote from: 57 Ford Kustom on 2012-10-31 09:17... but the throttle linkage on that carb is diferent from mine.

"That carb"?  What carb?  Got a pic?
Did you read this little thread?
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/classic-tech/274662-1965-mustang-2v-4v-carb.html
With no pic I haven't a clue about most of what post #6 says.

Maybe you should start a new thread. Titled something like "Kickdown linkage with an Autolite 4100?"
Or lose that damn auto trans.  :naughty:

Tom S,
   Here is pic!

Quote from: 57 Ford Kustom on 2012-10-31 10:38Here is pic!

That's different than yours?  Just looks like all the 4100s I've seen.  That's your carb, ain't it?  Not the other one with some different linkage I wanted to see. 

Tom S,
   This is my carb
Tim :unitedstates:

Triied to post under tech discutions, but it said that i've already posted it, won't let me do agian.
Tim :unitedstates:

Tom S,
   Well the engine is back together, new cam/ lifters, new timing chain, new intake, new timing chain cover, new water pump, and now it is time to install the Auto lite 4100. What did you do about the thermostatic choke, Did you run the tube down to the exhaust manifold? Just wondering :003:
Thanks,
Tim :unitedstates:

Quote from: 57 Ford Kustom on 2013-02-20 16:23What did you do about the thermostatic choke ...

Nope, didn't do anything with it.  I think a manual choke is the way to go but didn't even have that.   Pump gas pedal, start.