Went to the Auction in Lubbock this morning and was fortunate, or somewhat fortunate. I got the 95 Mark viii with 58K miles I had been watching for over a month. A little pricier than I had hoped, but still not too bad. For anybody that is curious about how this works....I matched an internet bidder at an even 1,000, and their policy is onsite bidders get picked over internet bidders at the same dollar figure. I was actually the only onsite bidder on the car, and I think there were two internet bidders. Since Texas does not allow private parties to purchase salvage cars at auction, I had to go thru a broker. The total fees thru the broker and the auction house will bring the final tab up to 1425. I figure that's pretty good for a low mileage engine and tranny,computer,etc. Had I decided to use the high mileage mark I already had, it would have cost me 1400 plus tax to rebuild the tranny, plus another 1000 for a 72k mile engine I had found. So, I figure I saved 1000 today, plus I now have all the parts I need to make that high mileage one I've got into a pretty decent little car, and some stuff left over I can sell and /or salvage yard.
Great News Rich :003:! I know you have been anxiously waiting for this day! Could not have happened to a more deserving Guy!
Tim :unitedstates:
Sounds like a great deal, congratulations. Did you get to hear it run before bidding?
Nice grab!
Sweet!
Those mark 8's are sweet rides, I always wanted to replace my t-bird with one. Everytime I start looking, gas shoots up past $4 bucks a gallon. The t-bird gets 31-33 on the highway.
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2013-01-22 16:26
Sounds like a great deal, congratulations. Did you get to hear it run before bidding?
Yes, I did. They auction off the run and drive cars first and run them into a building like they do on t.v.. I was standing there when they worked their way down the line with the jumpers for the cars with dead batteries, and was there when they kicked it over...started right up. It did blow a little smoke out the exaust pipes for about 10 seconds, and then cleared up. I figured that was to be expected as I knew the car had been sitting there since oct. 9th waiting for Geico to release it. One thing I will do to the engine before putting it in the '57 is a valve cover gasket kit that includes the o-ring seals at the bottom of the spark plug tubes. ( the plugs on these are located on top of the heads in the middle of the valve covers). Forgot to mention in my opening post the car has a set of 4 almost new tires...be surprised if they had more than 1k miles on them.
My buddy at the restoration shop here in Amarillo I found out today has a car trailer he is going to let me borrow as soon as he gets it back from his cousin later this week....also cool 'cause that'll save me some more $.
WOW! you usually don't find ones with good tires too.. The tires on my Ranchero didn't look like they had a 1000 miles on them, then I found the receipt in the glove box and they were bought in 1998 :003: Tires are on my endless list..
Amen, to the endless list hiball!
Tim
I don't know about Texas, but in Michigan, you can drive a newly purchased vehicle home with no plates. You need all the paper work and you better be pointed for home. My insurance company automatically insures any vehicle I buy up to 10 days of purchase. Done it several times and had people drive out of my yard with no plate.
IF your Jeep is lighter than the trailer, play it safe.
Texas is the same way.That was my original plan, to drive it home. Technically I think that law only applies to purchasing from a private party though. When you buy a used car from a dealer they normally issue you a temp. plate. I would think buying it at an auction place would take it out of the private party category. I'm guessing having a salvage record recorded by the state also would be a problem. I just checked the bill of sale/receipt though and there's no mention of a salvage title....but all a tropper has to do is run the vin.
Any thoughts from maybe a retired registry cop out there?? even if from a different state. What would happen if I got pulled over..would they just issue me a ticket, or would they make me get a toe truck (or tow truck, LOL)?
Rich,
Great find! To answer some of your questions( to make that car legal to drive), you should be able to purchase a temporary registration form your DMV for a small fee. At least in Colorado we can do a 10 day temporary. Your Insurance Company should cover your new purchase without cost for a short period as well. The company I retired from (farmers) would cover for 30 days at the best coverage you had in the household. This would give you time to drive this car and sort out any problems you might have.
I could get a free one from the DMV, but because of the salvage certificate, it is does no longer "qualify for a temp. permit" according to their website when I poked in the VIN. Tommorrow I'm going to go down there and talk to someone to make sure.
Gary: As far as my Jeep is concerned, it has an 8 with the HD tow package, but the weight ratio as you mentioned is not good. That said, I don't think I'd have a problem as long as I was slow and careful. It's 115 miles of flat and straight, and I've towed more weight with the Jeep with an overloaded 16' cargo trailer I use to have from the mountains in Colorado in a blizzard to Texas.
That was a trip I won't forget soon. Normally a 5 1/2 hour trip...that one took 14 hrs.
Rich, while you have it out put both sides of the valve cover gaskets & orings in. Eaiser on the floor than in the car. Also check all the rubber fittings going into the upper plenum. They get soft over time, collaspe and will suck vacuum after it finally falls apart.
Plus one (maybe both) heater tubes run under the intake and time causes a leak. Get on the MK VIII site, they have a butt load of info and every "do I need to worry about this" thing that has ever happened to a MK VIII.
Lowrider, Bill...thanks for the suggestions...I'll do that. I don't plan on pulling the engine real soon...weather and all. I'm planning on making or buying an engine stand for it before I pull it. It'll have to be transported to my friends shop for the install, so It'll be more like a craddle with castors rather than the twirly type. I know there are upgrades available for the tranny, but I plan on having that done after the car is up and running if after talking to my tranny expert he tells me they're worth the effort.
Rich
Good for you.. I know that you have been looking forward to this sale coming up.
I assume that your question about retired RMV Police was directed to me. The answer is no way will you be allowed to drive it without a plate. Here in Mass, it would be taken away and you would have to pay a bunch of money for towing and storage. Then there will be fine on top of all of that. They don't call this place Taxachusetts for nothing. Do you remember that expression when you were here?
Towing it on a trailer or having it transported in my opinion is the best way.
I'm just curious... Is that the engine that has the plugs on top? I heard those plugs hold water around them, get rusty, and break break off when removing them. Around here, even the Ford dealership can't extract the broken piece and farm the job out to a private machinist. Naturally the bill gets passed on to the customer. If so, be very careful taking out the plugs. Soak them real good with oil.
Some of the Lincoln guys should be able to chime in on this one about the plugs.
Another question is, have you given any thought to taking the the quarter panel off Lincoln Number 1 and putting it on Lincoln No. 2? You could end up with a very nice car. Don't rule out the possibility of installing the eng / trans from #1 in the 57.
Jay
Thanks for the input Jay. I just got back from the DMV, and it's the same way here. No plates until the car has been repaired and trailered to an inspection point, where they would issue a "passed inspection" type of certificate which is brought to the dmv with title application.
As far as the '95 Mark goes..first of all, yes they are the engines with the plugs in the top. I am very tempted to use the rear quarter off the first Mark, and make it a daily driver. If for no other reason, these cars are too rad to send an otherwise nice, low mileage one to the scrap pile. However, budget restraints will probably dictate that I pull the engine for the '57, which is my first priority, and the reason I was looking for one in the first place. But hey, I've got months to think about it and change my mind at least a dozen times!
I got too wordy as usual and the damn thing blew up. I have this cradle. I like it. It works good on my 460 alone or with trans.
Nice...did you make it or buy it?
I just got a cradle like that off ebay , about $50 with shipping.I didn't want to spend the time to make one in the barn next to my cars and it to cold to fool with out side. happy to see you got what you wanted Rich.
If I get wordy again, run the risk of a blow up. These are available on line and that picture was from a eBay listing...Buy it NOW for $38.00. Shipping and casters are more than the cradle. You could buy a cheap engine stand for less. But this cradle bolts to the engine mount bosses and not any of the bell house bolts. This cradle balances and rolls around great with only a bare block or a fully built 460 with a C6 or Lakewood and TKO600. I use it regularly. Even if I'm taking a bare block to the machine guy, I bolt the cradle on, load it in the Suburban, and strap it down. I rolled my completely assembled 460 with bellhousing, flywheel, clutch, and transmission around with ease. And I had something to secure it down for transport without hooking to the alternator bracket.
" I just got back from the DMV, and it's the same way here. No plates until the car has been repaired and trailered to an inspection point, where they would issue a "passed inspection" type of certificate which is brought to the dmv with title application."
The salvage certificate makes things tough around here also when you fix one up It's not fun. This could be the deciding factor in repairing the new car and using the engine and transmission in the 57.
I'm sure that You are going to make the right decision.
Jay...from what I remember about Massachussetts, everything there is made difficult. By far the western states are much more resident friendly. Maybe I won't get a lot of western state'rs (if that's a word) to agree with that, but the ones that don't, I'd hazard a guess they are not folks who moved away from the east coast.
Congrats on the deal, thats a good price for a complete low mileage car. Couple of things to be aware of. Exhaust, not sure what your planning to use, but the Mark has a cat attached to the passenger manifold. Mustang Cobra manifolds should work in the chassis, or you can get a set of Mustang Cobra tube headers and reconfigure them to fit.
For the trans, the one and ONLY modification is a thing called the J-Mod. A google search will net you plenty of answers for that, but that is the only one you should look at. Also your best investment in that drivetrain will be a stall convertor and a set of rear gears. DOHC 4.6's arent known for their low end torque. Check out this guy, his name is Alan, he is extremely knowledgable and has more experience with these drivetrains than most anyone else. http://www.dirtydogperformance.com/ A call to him will answer any questions you have on getting the trans, rear gear and convertor and making it all work in your car.
I've built a couple of 4.6's, one of them being a DOHC Cobra motor, you'll enjoy the top end power and that aluminum block. Nothing really tricky about them, they are pretty easy motors. Nothing like a pushrod motor, but easy once you know what all your looking at.
Another thing to consider, is those engines are fairly easy to convert to coil on plug and eliminate the coil packs and plug wires, really cleans things up underhood. Also the Mark has an oil pan that is unique to the Mark. It has a kick out on the side of the pan near the starter that gives it an extra quart of capacity. Not sure it will fit in the frame of a 57, but a Mustang or a T-bird pan will physically bolt to the motor and might give you some more clearance. Just need to match the pickup to whatever pan you use. So you have some options to consider.
Good luck with that swap, but any 4.6 specific questions, let me know, I'm pretty well versed in them, or I know all the best guys to ask. Congrats again!!
Thanks for all the info. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions down the road as I get into it. I thought the only oil pan that will work on it is a ('95)continental. That will change it to a front sump to clear the crossmember and steering. I don't know about the Mustang or T-bird oil pans. Are they front sump? Also, the mustang oem cobra exhaust manifolds are in the plans.
The J mod for the tranny is the one I read about, I think on the Mark viii forumn.
I'll check into the coil on plug conversion...I'd like to keep this as clean as posible, not that this is going to be an easy engine to do it with.
For the rear gears, I'm planning on the stock 9" with 3:50 trac loc..don't want a speed demon, just a healthy driver that won't tear up the engine cruising the freeways at 75.
Thanks again, Rich
Rich the Continental pan is the one you need. The 99 - 04 Cobra exhaust are close to the same but I know for sure the 99s will work. There is a thread on here that has the swap and many of the stock Ford stuff that will make it much easier to "bolt in".
Yes, the T-Bird, Mustang and Mark pans are all rear sump. If you need a front sump, and the Continental is it, then yeah it should bolt on. I know the bellhousing bolt pattern on the 4.6 block in a Continental is different than the rest, FWD to RWD, but I believe the rest is the same. Just be sure to get the pickup as well, I'm certain that would be different. Also there is a difference in 2 cam and 4 cam oil pumps, but the Continental is a 4 cam, but you might need to oil pump off that motor as well, somthing to look at.
The 3.50 gear will work, but I think you might find it a bit light for any kind of off the line motion. But if that's not your concern then you should be ok. I had 3.55's in my T-bird for awhile, and while they performed well, the switch up to 3.73's was well worth the effort. And I had a buddy that had a Mark and he ran 4.11's as a daily driver car and he loved it. RPM's got a bit high on cruising, probably 2500 or so, but his gas mileage didnt really suffer any, something to keep in mind as I believe the weights are about the same between both cars. Also keeping in mind in my 4.6 car I have made 2000 mile roadtrips numerous times cruising at 2500 and never had any issue and still pulling 25+ mpg's on the highway.
The coil on plug conversion is extremely simple from the wiring aspect of things, the only hard part you might find would be the valve covers. The plug wire covers are different than the coil on plug covers, but they still aren't that hard to find. There is a guy who sells conversion harnesses, but to me they are expensive, little more than $150 or close to it. I made my own, not hard and all you need is the plug ends and some quality time with a soldering gun.
Your new best friends will be svtperformance.com They are a mostly 99-04 Cobra forum, and you can find alot of good deals and info over there to that motor. The Mark motor and Cobra motors are virtually identical, save intakes and exhaust manifolds. There is a guy in North Carolina who does porting on stock exhaust manifolds if you want to get a bit better breathing out of them. I know a guy that was running a 670rwhp 2 cam car with those ported manifolds. Not sure what your goals would be, but I would be certain that helping an engine breathe is a good thing. I can't think of his name, but if your interested, I can find out the info and get it to you.
Don't hesitate with the questions, I've read nearly everything there is on that engine, and made plenty of mistakes, lol. I'm glad to help in any way I can. Good luck.
The knowledge and resources from the Guy's on this site never cease to amaze me!
Thanks,
Tim :unitedstates:
Thanks again...Ditto what Tim said. I'm going to check out both the websites you mentioned later this evening, and print out this thread so I've got it later.
Rich
No problems, glad to help. I've got 3 57's to build and virtually no experience with them. I have a ton of 4.6 knowledge and experience, plus connections to some of the top guys in that field. I'm glad to trade my 4.6 knowledge for help with my 57's. Like I said, and questions, let me know.
3 '57's...cool. What ya got?, and what are your plans. This is the right place for help with them. we've got a bunch of willing and able, knowledgable '57 guys here to answer your questions...I'd be lost without them.
Rich
Rich looked for the thread that had these pictures but could not find it, looked on the HAMB as well...no luck...so I'll post them for you to look at and to assure you the 4.6 will fit.
The rest
Congrats Rich glad to see you got it. I think you got a heck of a deal on the price. I bet you can't wait to get it home and start tear down.
Rich,
If you haven't located a continental oil pan, I would start looking. I did find one of these quite quickly but it did not include the oil pickup which is needed for this change. The pickup is no longer offered through ford parts and I have yet to find one thru dealers or junk yards. There have got to be a lot of these in junk yards but the engines may have to be removed to get at the pan. At least the Mustang is that way as the K member wouldn"t allow you to remove the pan.
I did try setting my engine in the 57 with rear sump pan since I had removed all the steering linkage. Still would not clear the cross member and slide under firewall. I guess I can at least install the new pan temporarily and get the engine fitted and wait for the oil tube. If anyone out there knows where I might find one, Please help!
When you get ready to remove that drive train, take it out from the bottom. A few extra things to disconnect, but much more manageable. I lowered the the cars k member on three wheel dollies (the kind you put under the cars tires to roll around the garage) ,disconnected the 8 k member bolts and raised the front of the car with the cherry picker hoist. You can easily raise it enough to clear the engine. Block the car up, remove the hoist and simply slide the whole unit out the front. It really rolls easily and makes a convenient place to store the drivetrain until you want to work on it further.
Wow....gettin' tons of input here. GGRRRREEEEEAAAAATTTT!!!
Bill thanks for posting those pics. Was particularly interested to see the one clearing the steering box....should be tons more room there with just my rack joints to contend with. It was also nice to see the Markviii fan assembly fitting in there, and looking like it was done with the mark viii behind the core support.awesome. When I saw the second set of pics you posted, I got to thinking these pics are from Canadian Ranchero when he was using and old scrapped car for mock-up before he put it in the Ranchero?? Wonder what happened to him...
Resurected..Thanks. I was watching the auctions quite a bit while I was waiting for this one to come up and were seeing similar vehicles generally going for less, so I kinda got my hopes up I'd get by real cheap. Given the fact that the car was low mileage,in such good shape and basically could be a driver again easily, brought it up higher...I'm just grateful it stopped there. I am anxious to get it home..not too anxious to tear it apart. I'll wait for warmer weather as this has to be done outside. Besides, I'm planning on a few trips around the neighborhood when I get it home.LOL
DOHC57..interesting info on the K member in yours...is the Lincoln set up that way? It would be nice if it was. I watched a guy not too long ago pull a clip off a chrysler product that way. Had never seen it done before. I was amazed.
I've located 2 '95 continentals in the u-pull-it yard here in town. Waiting for weather on that also. I believe I read in a post by someone on this forumn the pan and pick-up was an easy pull from the continental. I'm also planning on pulling the computers and engine control modulesfrom several 93-95 marks at the same yard. Won't hurt to have spares of those..I can see that being a problem years down the road.
Thanks guys
forgot to mention..If those pics were Canadian Ranchero, those exhaust manifolds are probably the Mustang Cobra. The other member doing that post with Gary/Canadian R. was Bob Claiborn, and a few months ago he still had all his install pics on his photobucket (or other) website page.
On those continentals I found at the local yard...they won't pull parts for ya. The Continentals are way in the back, and you can't drive into the yard, which means all tools, jacks, etc have to be carried in. I'm old..not looking forward to that. Was hoping to find some one ebay with the pick-up tube, but so far only have found the pans. Btw,Dorman makes new pans for the marks and towncars..haven't checked to see if they make them for the continentals..but no matter if I don't have the pick-up tube. It's time for the LONG nap.
Rich
Rich, use a wheelbarrow to haul your tools and parts around the junkyard.
At christmas time somewhere I saw a fold-up heavy duty wagon..red ryder type. I thought that would be just perfect for swap meets n' all. Being Christmas time, I didn't have the spare money(I 'll use Christmas as the excuse, but I never seem to have spare money) so I let it pass..now if I can only remember where I saw it. Sam's club maybe??
Anyway....This thread should have been titled "I bought it"..cause today "I got it". My buddy's cousin never brought the trailer back that he was going to let me use, so I rented one out of a local independent that doesn't have all the BS UHaul has...they never even asked what I was towing. Already took it for a few spins around the block. The old Jeep didn't like pulling that weight, but it got us home. When I got home I noticed the back of the Jeep was a few inches lower than when I left Lubbock..may have broken a shock or two..that's ok if it's the worst of it..they were shot anyways.
Rich,
Just got back from the U Pull It yard where they had a 95 Continental. Good news! That pan is a very easy pull; took me only about 15 minutes and only had to use a universal socket twice. Other than that, the pan is completely open under there and the pickup tube is easily removed as well. The cars in this yard are already up off the ground about 3 feet and makes getting underneath an easy task. I was just going to get the pickup tube as I already have an oil pan but the checkout guy said "that was part of the pan" and the price would be the same for one or both. Since the cost was only $24, I ended up with an extra oil pan. If some needs one this could be cheap!
Good score...now if you only had an extra pick-up with that extrapan...
Did you check out the oil pump, or do you think the rear sump pump will work?
Don't know if you saw it, but I had asked in reply to your previous post if you knew if the mark 8 had a k member setup to drop the drivetrain from the bottom.
Never mind..googled it..it does. Cool. It can also be removed from top with oil pan removel end a few other things..Going from the top , I would think, means the front suspension can be left intact for moving (or removing) the car.
there's definitely a shortage of those pickup tubes, would love to fid one myself. may have to modify one.
Zap- :unitedstates:
Rich,
I haven't removed the Mustang pan yet to check on the oil pump. From everything I have read, i assumed they are the same . with just a different pickup. I should know this soon.
One of the reasons I removed the engine from the bottom was that I really didn't like any of the lifting points on these engines. Some recommend the threaded hole on the back of the right side head to the threaded hole on the front of the left head. That sounds pretty unbalanced and a guy on a ford site says you can twist the block this way. Claims to work at a Ford dealership and "sees it all the time." Once I had the cradle out( and could actually see what I was doing), I attached towing straps around each motor mount to a point over the engine where I could attach the hoist. The straps do contact the exhaust manifolds and I protected the cam covers with a towel wrapped 2x4. This seems well balanced with transmission on the engine but will probably get in the way when trying to actually fit the engine in the 57. If someone on this site has a better suggestion, I sure will listen to them! Al
Trying to decide whether or not to spend the 40 bucks for a carfax report on the Mark viii. It would be interesting to know about my baby's heart donor. One interesting thing..I was looking for anything on the car that would indicate anything about previous owners..some scrap of paper with a name on it, etc. Zilch!Nada! Then I noticed a clear sticker on the windshield for an oil change...here in Amarillo!! I'm going to take a pic of the car and go there to see if anyone recognizes the car, and knows who owned it. Their records will probably be by license plate, which is no longer on the car, but I'll bring the vin just in case. Maybe the local Lincoln Mercury dealer.
Got one once. What's forty bucks when you are buying a $40,000.00 used vehicle. For your research, I don't think you will get your moneys worth. I think people put too much faith in CarFax. If the report is clear, that does not necessarily mean the vehicle is clean.
Is there any way of finding out who the previous owners of any particular vehicle might be?
WHY? Pull a valve cover or anything that opens the engine up....you'l know looking at the top of the heads.
Just hosed off all the sand that had accumulated on it and took a few pics..also realized the pics I posted at the beginning of this thread were thumnails...cant see much. Check out this interior..one reason I'm gonna have a hard time turning it into a parts car.
There's another Mark coming up at auction with only 34K miles, and light front end damage...hmmmm. It's in Florida though..about 1400. shipping
Cut it up..it's for the greater good..besides, it's just a late model....;)
Sounds like you are going to corner the market on mkV111! Once you get started, its hard to get stopped.
Backing up a few posts, I did want to let you know that the Continental oil pickup and pan will bolt up to your new engine. Well, sort of. The brace that was attached to the tube via a main bearing web has nothing to bolt to on the Mach engine. I also had to eliminate all the neat oil scrapers attached the rear half of the engine. They covered the crankshaft bolting on studs extended from Main bearing caps. No room for them under the shallow end of the new pan and probably would serve no purpose now. I can use one of the studs to rig an extension to
the existing brace. Yours may be different, but at least the attachment to the oil pump is the same.
When I was putting the "old" oil pan away, I just happened to notice some small plastic pieces in the bottom of the pan. This means only one thing; a chain tensioner or guide is coming apart. These are apparently metal parts with plastic surfaces. Checking on the internet forumns, I hear this is a common problem. Sounds like they are relatively easily to replace but it does require removing the front cover. Really didn't want to start tearing this engine apart! Hopefully, you won't have this issue but yet another thing to look out for on these "new" engines.
Thanks for the input Al. BTW, the Tri-state swap meet is in a couple of weeks. Not sure if I'll make it or not..will know better after my wife decides when she wants to go to Phoenix...beside I blew all the car money she gave me for B'day and Christmas on the Mark.
I was at the pull it yard today to grab a couple spare wiper modules. Went over to where the '95 Continentals are and one of them actually won't be too bad to jack up. May load up my wheelbarrow as Zap suggested and go out tommorrow. Almost 70 here today and more of the same tommorrow.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2013-01-27 08:59
I'm going to take a pic of the car and go there to see if anyone recognizes the car, and knows who owned it. Their records will probably be by license plate, which is no longer on the car, but I'll bring the vin just in case. Maybe the local Lincoln Mercury dealer.
Rich This is a long story, but I'll skip the details and make it shorter. I'm thankful that I was not involved in this one. I know the people involved though. Person #A bought a car from a dealership. #A sold the car to #B. It kept getting sold to more and more people. One day, #A got a phone call from last buyer. We will call him #G. #A asked #G "How did you find me? #G "stated that he got the information from the dealership where you bought it."
#A sued the dealership and got a new car as a settlement.
That information is classified and don't be surprised if you run into dead ends. Not even a repair shop can give you the information on owners or previous owners.
Oh by the way this story is about a used car, but the dealership paid off with a new car just to make the guy go away.
You will probably get more information by following the advice of Ford Blue Blood and Gary.
Yeah...I wasn't really expecting them to give me their name. What I was hoping for at best was for the dealer or oil change shop to contact the previous owner and give them my number, with a hope they'd call. Kinda forgot about it for now. I just thought it would be interesting for the records.
Thanks Jay.
I'd take it down the road, put the pedal to the wood, should tell you what you need to know.
Just an update on this auctioning thing if anyone is interested. Everything has been finalized. I got my salvage title delivered fedex Monday. The final tab with all the auction house fees, and brokerage house fees: 1,000,bid,230. auction house,195 broker fees incl title handling,=1425.
The auction fees are based on selling price with a cap of about 400. The broker fees are fixed per unit regarless of purchase price. Everything went smooth from first day to last with both auction house and broker.
The other Mark I had mentioned, with only 39K on it, sold for 375. last week! If it wasn't on the east coast, I would have bought it too.