I want to cover this dash with something & replace them afterwards.
Somebody must have removed these at some point. I searched, no luck. How did you do it?
Tried tapping them a little, no go. Seems to be a little flange on the inside. I could probably grind the flange off & glue them back in but rather not.
At least they are metal & not plastic.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/Dashbezels.jpg)
Ground off the flange.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/Dashbezels4.jpg)
Bezel fell right out.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/Dashbezels2.jpg)
Didn?t expect that raised rim under the bezel. For what I want to do I will have to sand that flat. :(
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/Dashbezels3.jpg)
Amazing how our mindset is nowadays..I was surprised they were not plastic. Interesting project you got going..keep us posted on how it turns out. You've got me curious about the "cover it with something".
Rich
Interesting, I was just trying to sand around those the other day and come up with an idea to mask them off before painting. Maybe I'll grind the rear off and glue them back in as suggested.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2013-01-26 06:59..I was surprised they were not plastic.
The main reasons I didn't think those little bezels were plastic is that the chrome isn't worn off of them like it is on plastic speedo surround trim. Also, it didn't break when I tapped hard on the backside of it.
I am wanting to replace the '58 dash that's in the car now with the '57 dash. I have the rest of the chrome '57 dash pieces, & all but one black knob.
I don't like this 58 dash & it's plastic surround. I also think the plastic is losing it's chrome & has been painted. Paint seems to be flaking off.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/Dashplan1-Copy.jpg)
This red 57 dash is a spare one that came with the car & happens to be one of the parts that many, (20?), years ago I sold to to the guy I got the car from.
Now I wish had started with this other rusted up spare dash.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/Dashspare2.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/Dashbezels7.jpg)
Maybe I'm being silly, but the red dash is in good shape & I have already put a small nick in it while trying to grind down that little raised area with a dremel type tool. Wanted to do as little 'damage' as possible but it is going to take a lot more aggressive sanding & will destroy the stock red paint. I stopped here to make up my mind. Anymore I think that *some* old parts just shouldn't be even slightly molested.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/Dashbezels6-Copy.jpg)
Here's the deal: The red dash came from a '57 wagon that one of my Uncles bought new. Years later the wagon was sold to another Uncle on the other side of the family & eventually was passed on to me. The rusty old 4 door wagon finally died. Before I moved house in 1974-'75 I saved some parts & junked the car. That was just before I got into the cars as heavy as I did & I have regretted junking it every since. I sure wanted that '57 rear axle for my Roadster later!
The paint on the other dash seems fairly good too, but somehow I wouldn't feel so bad about grinding it off.
If I could find a can of spray paint that was close to the right red I could paint the visor of the grey dash to match my existing red dash. Or maybe just clean up the grey & use it that way? My interior is red & black. Paint the dash visor satin black? Opinions on that?
Am I nuts for worrying about the red dash? (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/shog.gif)
I managed to get the bezels out using a small hobby screwdriver to bend up the lip, I put a bolt through the center to keep it from distorting. My speedo is in pretty fair condition, thought about replacing it but didn't want to spend that much for a new one right now, maybe in the future..
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2013-01-28 08:01
I managed to get the bezels out using a small hobby screwdriver to bend up the lip, ...
I tried that very briefly but I think my screwdriver was too big. I'll have to give it another shot. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/THUMB.gif) Wasn't 100% sure what I was dealing with at the time.
I'm confused as to what you're trying to do here. When you said you had to remove the little ring around the hole that was under the bezel, I thought maybe you were adding a sheet of stainless, or whatever to the face, but if that was the case, you wouldn't have been worried about a little nick in the paint...so as I said, I'm confused.
It's the whatevers that scare me :003:. I bought a Falcon one time that they had covered the dash in a wood grain contact/shelving type paper. It took me months to get it all off :005:
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2013-01-28 08:57...I thought maybe you were adding a sheet of stainless, or whatever to the face, but if that was the case, you wouldn't have been worried about a little nick in the paint...
Correct, it will be covered, but I'm thinkin' I want to save that stock red paint on that dash face. I, or somebody else, might want to change it back someday & that would make it real easy to do.
EDIT: Hiball makes the point. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/THUMB.gif)
Just curious as to what you plan to cover it with? Always looking for new ideas.
Tom
I know that you have a cool roadster with a 406 and a pet bird that eats motorcycles, but I was just wondering .... What model 57 Ford are you working on? If you need a face piece for that 57 dash, you can have my spare one.
Jay in very cold Mass.
Sorry, guys. Been holding off on replies since I thought I would have something good to show you guys long before now.
But being a professional crastinator besides some other self inflicted personal problems I don't. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/shog.gif)
First, Ecode Jay, thanks, for the offer of the dash face piece. That's very generous of you but I think I'm good. Got the 58 one in the car & two spares. The model of '57 Ford I have is really a '58, a Ranchero. It's so ugly that it's downright embarrassing & it needs a lot of work.
Nevertheless I posted pix & some info about it along with some other BS when I first snuck in here.
Check it out here ...
http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=3374.0
Very cold in Mass? What? Looks like it was around 30 degrees most everywhere in Mass that day.
Got to around a balmy 7 or 8 for the high here the same day. At least I don't live in Fairbanks or somewhere in the interior where it routinely gets to minus 40 or 50 and lower in winter. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/cold.gif)
Hiball, I didn't want to say what I was going to cover it with before I could show it. Figured it would get bad mouthed fer sure if I just said tape. But I am going to use this engine turned tape that I have had around here for years. It is not the same as the prism tape I see in parts stores now & does look like the real thing.
Kind of going for the look of the '57 T-bird dash.
Always thought the '56 Ford gauge panel was the best layout & not that crazy about the '57 Ford's. I like the round 56 gauges.
As you know the '57 Bird is the same gauge panel as the 56 Ford but has the engine turned aluminum face. I am going to go all the way across the narrow strip of dash with this but the chrome '57 heater, radio, & clock faces will stay in place. Actually, I will replace the existing '58 ones with '57 ones.
T-bird dash ...
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/T-Birddash3.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/T-Birddash4.jpg)
Anyway, needed paint. Not much luck. Bought some satin black, still wanted to match that grey but really wanted the red. Finally ended up at Home Despot looking for some grey spray paint. Guy come up & says they can color match the red & mix it up. They did & sold me a sample can & a little spray gizmo. $7.91 total.
Paint is drying now.
It is pretty flat & looks a bit too orange to me. Maybe some wax will help with the flatness. Maybe I can go back & get them to add a little red. Hard to tell the color difference in pix.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/Dashpaint5.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/Dashpaint6.jpg)
BTW, Hiball, I followed your lead & pried up the flange on the bezels on the grey dash.
It was different than the red one. The bezels were sunk into a round depression & that gave something to pry against. The red dash was flat there & hard to get anything under the flange.
Grey dash ...
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/Dashbezels10.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/Dashbezels11.jpg)
Red dash ...
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/Dashbezels9.jpg)
Unlike the red dash the grey dash had no FoMoCo stamp on the back, no numbers, no nothing. Weird.
Yes, I'll post a couple pix after I get the engine turned tape on the panel.
Understand that this dash business is just something very minor to do inside since I can't get the Ranchero in my cramped garage most all winter to get at the big things. Like the engine & trans swap for one.
Wish I'd remembered to take a pic of where the guy had cut the middle out of the engine X-member just inside of where the rear pivot point attachments for the lower A-arms are to fit that damn slant six. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/smackhead.gif) Gotta fix that somehow too.
My Roadster has the same '57-'64 engine mount, shortened & bolted to the frame, so this will give you the idea.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/Enginex-member4-Copy.jpg)
Guys, please tell me if my pix are too big.
Cheepo mod. Still gotta clean up the speedo & odometer plastics ...
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/Dash-engineturned2.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/Dash-engineturned3.jpg)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/Dash-engineturned5.jpg)
Maybe someday a dash like this but round black gauges, no console, stock heater, radio & clock stuff. Still want to retain a somewhat original style & a bench seat.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/DASHPLAN6.jpg)
Getting a tach in there would be nice.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/DASHPLAN2.jpg)
Tom,
I like it! I think it is a nice look. I too have also thought the 56' had the best gauge cluster. I was thinking of doing something different with my dash, it's pretty bland. Where did you get the tape? Agian nice job!
Thanks,
Tim :unitedstates:
Good job Tom. I like the look. I also like the round Gages. How wide is that tape you used? Is it self adhesive?I had seen other sheets of stuff in graphic supply stores that I had wondered if could be used in a similar way. The best part of what you did is it definetly doesn't look like tape, btw.
something you may want to look into if they have a hobby store near you that sells models car kits..they make sheets of chrome like stuff that they use for 'chroming' the moulded in side trim on those models. I think it may be thicker and more durable than the leafing sheets sold in craft stores (or real gold or silver leaf). It's a glue-on product made in a variety of different alloys and finishes. Id be real curious to see how that stuff would work on the dash panel bezels. Also Dennis carpenter sells the replacement clear pieces for that. Don't loose those tiny little clips that hold the speedo plastic in.
P.S. LOL..I knew Jay was in for it when he told you it was cold in Mass.
That looks excellent Tom, great idea. I remember the Studebakers that had the machine turned dashes with SW gauges and toggle switches and how much I liked those. My bezels are like yours that set in the recess. My garage is cluttered with front suspension parts and tons of crap so I'm working on mine in the house too, on the coffee table :003:
Tom
I am going to have to stop feeling sorry for myself and complaining about the weather You have it tough up there, so i'll count my blessings and keep my mouth shut about what I think is cold.
I like your car just the way is is with that Edsel nose and I'm even thinking about going with that same color for my car. If I do your color, I could get mine back together sooner and start driving it. I noticed that there are lots of cars on the forum that are sporting grey primer. I can't even imagine trying to come up with all of those Edsel parts to do what you did, especially up there.
You will never be sorry about the three speed top loader with 4th gear overdrive and I think that you got the better deal with that trade. Getting the 57 clutch linkage was a bonus. That's what I had in my 58 with 406 and it got great mileage even with the triple carb. intake. By the way I shifted mine with four speed forward on the column and reverse was with a cable under the dash. It sure confused the guys at the car cruises around here.
Keep up the good work and stay warm. Jay in not so cold Mass.
What?! nobody gonna give me grief for using that fake engine turned stuff? (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/lol.gif)
Yeah I think it came out ok & like I featured. Getting the rest on may be tricky though.
57 Ford Tim, I used this stuff that I have had around here for about 30 years. Look at that price sticker. :001:
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/P1000385.jpg)
Unfortunately they don't seem to make it any more. Hardly used any of it in all this time & so I guess I'm lucky to have it.
This 'Prism Tape' ain't the same thing. Looks like something that belongs on a, emm, ... I donno, a disco ball?
Seen it in the parts store. Glittery, sparkly, rainbow crap. It just ain't right. Not wide enough either.
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/TRM0/T0926.oap?pt=N0297&ppt=C0101
I didn't realize that what I already had would work & was at first thinking I needed something wider to fit the expanse of the gauge panel. Here are some of the places I found while looking for something wider.
http://www.mnpctech.com/Engine_Turned_Vinyl_Film.html
This next one might be your best bet. 24" wide by 12" should be enough for the whole dash.
"This seller does not ship to Alaska/Hawai" (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/tap.gif)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silver-Small-Engine-Turn-Sign-Plotter-Cutter-Vinyl-/290793277027?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b4a14663
Maybe this is a good one too but a lot more than you need. "Small Engine Turn Sign Vinyl, choose your color and size, self-adhesive." $12.95, 12"X10'! Shipping to me is $11.25, almost as much as the product.
http://stores.ebay.com/Paper-Street-Plastics/Brush-Gold-Leaf-Engine-Turns-/_i.html?_fsub=1470367
Not wide enough.
http://www.tapebrothers.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=Engine+Turn+&Search.x=19&Search.y=21
If anybody finds any more of this stuff that is at least 3" wide, (3.5" would be better), I hope they will post it up here.
It is 3" from the speedo opening to the bottom of the panel. You want at least 1/4' to wrap over the bottom & the ends. I cut the bottom off after I had the stuff on & on one side at the bottom I cut it a little too short. Stuff was trying to delaminate after I wrapped it around. I taped it down & it seems to have stuck back together.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/Dashspare3.jpg)
Rich, it is 3.75' wide & yes it is self adhesive. Very sticky! Seems like that chrome like stuff from a hobby shop would be pretty hard to get on to dash panel bezels espically in the corners. Is that self adhesive too?
Thanks for the tip on Dennis Carpenter! I hadn't looked there for that. 50 bucks for the speedo plastic beats Obsolete Ford by about 32 bucks! Can get all 3 pieces from Carpenter for $70. I better check out Carpenter some more.
Ecode Jay, I didn't put that that Edsel nose on the car, bought it that way. As for the paint, it is really, really bad. Not sure what the guy used but most of it feels like very coarse sandpaper. When I was buying the car the seller says, "Oh, you don?t wash it." He then pulls one of those lint brushes out of the glove box. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/uhoh.gif)
If you tried to wash or dry this thing with a cloth it would be covered in bits of cloth & lint. It's just another thing I wish he hadn't done. I want it painted gloss black but my body man/painter ain't gonna like it. Got a lot of bondo on it too.
Now, without any of the stainless side trim I think it looks like a slab sided flat black blob.
I hope to remedy that before too long. Right after I snuck in here Suede57ford tracked down some of his nice stainless side trim & sold it to me. What a guy! (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/bow.gif)
I need to get my body man to help me align the doors & get that trim on. Gotta find the right clips for that trim first. Then I want the paint job. I don't know if I can find a 57 front clip but I would use it if I can. Pretty slim pickens here & would cost a fortune to ship up from down there.
Hey, it's warmed up here! :naughty:
Tom,
Thanks for the info, I can always rely on you to do extremely intense research on any item! Now, if I can only figure out how to get you to buy it for me too :003:! Lol, thanks for all your research!
Tim :unitedstates:
"Ecode Jay, I didn't put that that Edsel nose on the car, bought it that way. As for the paint, it is really, really bad. Not sure what the guy used but most of it feels like very coarse sandpaper. When I was buying the car the seller says, "Oh, you don?t wash it." He then pulls one of those lint brushes out of the glove box. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/uhoh.gif)
If you tried to wash or dry this thing with a cloth it would be covered in bits of cloth & lint. It's just another thing I wish he hadn't done. I want it painted gloss black but my body man/painter ain't gonna like it.
me. w if I can find a 57 front clip but I would use it if I can. Pretty slim pickens here & would cost a fortune to ship up from down there."
Tom.... Not having to search for that Edsel nose puts and putting it on the car puts you that much ahead. I can picture the car all done with just those strips on the side that you were looking for. Have you ever tried to fine sand a spot on that paint? I'm wondering if it is some sort of Rustoleum. I picked up a 34 Ford one time and it had dull black paint like that on it. I used to clean it up with a fine scuffy pad. Lint would stick to it when I washed it and rubbed it with a cloth. I block sanded it and made it smooth , then put some black centari on it and it came out nice. Stick with it. You can make it look real nice. It is crying for that small block Ford engine with the toploader overdrive. transmission though. Jay
Quote from: Ecode70D on 2013-01-31 20:38
Have you ever tried to fine sand a spot on that paint? ... Rustoleum....
Yeah, a spot. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/lol.gif)
I ain't gonna sand that whole car, & I sure ain't gonna paint it myself. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/nono.gif)
With all the little bondo cracks & stuff I'm gonna pay to have it done right. Too much of something that I don't like & not all that adapt at or inclined to do like some other things.
Oh, it's not Rustoleum, it's something weird.
Quote from: Ecode70DIt is crying for that small block Ford
Gonna get the 1966 390 I been savin'.
Man, someday very soon I'm gonna have to educate you on how to use the quote button at the upper right of people's posts. You can teach me some other
sh ... stuff. :002:
Quote from: Tom S on 2013-02-01 06:38
Man, someday very soon I'm gonna have to educate you on how to use the quote button at the upper right of people's posts. You can teach me some other sh ... stuff. :002:
That quote thing has been bothering me since I signed up. Sometimes I get it and most of the times I just screw it up. Rich and some of the other guys have tried lots of times to help me with that one. Rebuilding a toploader is less confusing for me.
The problem with having someone else do it, is that you have to pay big bucks. I do understand your situation though. It is very time consuming and block sanding is absolutely no fun. You will do the engine swap before you paint it though. Right? I think that the Edsel nose on your car is real slick and the only thing that I would change on your car is to put that 57 stainless on the sides minus the one piece just like the black one that you used for a sample picture.
I got the quote thing right that time. Next time I'll probably screw it up because I'm not a compter guy.
Quote from: Ecode70D on 2013-02-02 11:58The problem with having someone else do it .... pay big bucks. ....... You will do the engine swap before you paint it though. Right? I think that the Edsel nose on your car is real slick and ...
Yeah, getting the paint & bodywork done is gonna cost me some real big bucks. Most of my life I wouldn't have even considered it. I can now. Not that I'm gonna like spending the money since I am usually kind of
cheap, ...err, thrifty.
Yeah, thrifty, that's the word. :002:
Yes, I will definitely do the engine swap first. But at the rate I'm going anymore I sometimes wonder if any of this is gonna happen before I kick the bucket. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/OLD.gif)
Always thought that an Edsel nose on these things was pretty neat but if I can get a 57 Ford front clip I would use it. Front of a 57 is really good looking.
I might feel better about using the Edsel nose if '57 Fords weren't so rare around here, would stand out from the others.
Since my Ranchero is somehow actually titled as an Edsel just think of the big BS story I could make up about how very rare this car is. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/lol.gif)
I would really like a nice gloss black paint job but it may be that I just do some sanding & get some better looking flat black sprayed on it, put on the stainless moldings & some 'mag' wheels & call it good.
Who knows.
Quote from: Ecode70D on 2013-02-02 12:03I got the quote thing right that time.
You did! (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/THUMB.gif) And thank you for having sense enough to quote only the pertinent part & not the whole post.
All your talk about 406s got me looking for something for mine. Check this thread.
http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=3911.new#new
Quote from: Tom S on 2013-02-03 01:03
Since my Ranchero is somehow actually titled as an Edsel just think of the big BS story I could make up about how very rare this car is.
Not to mention the people who have no idea what a slant six is :003:
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2013-02-03 08:35
Not to mention the people who have no idea what a slant six is :003:
Oh, you had to bring that up. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/tap.gif) Hate, hate, hate it! I ain't gonna drive it around with that thing in it. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/shog.gif) It's gotta go! To make it even worse that thing has a terrible, horrible, irritating droning sound to it while driving it. How the PO could stand it for years or why he put that thing in it in the first place is beyond me. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/nono.gif) (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/beathead.gif)
People do some strange things don't they :dontknow: They were actually good little engines but I wouldn't want one in a Ford either..
Tom,
At least if it had a c#@%& in it you could resell it!! LOL
Tim :unitedstates:
[quote
Tom,
At least if it had a c#@%& in it you could resell it!! LOL
Tim
[/quote]
Tim we live near the ocean. Around here the only good use for those Cxxxy engines is a boat anchor/mooring. That is after you take an ax to the oil pan to let the oil out.
Jay
Sorry Tom I screwed up on the quote thing again even after all of that schoolfication that you gave me. I honestly tried four times to get it right on that last post.
Rich... Either Tom is a crummy teacher or I'm a slow learner.
Looks killer. Where to get the tape is the million dollar question.
Quote from: jarhead1986 on 2013-02-04 17:43Where to get the tape is the million dollar question.
Did you miss this? At least three places to get this stuff.
Quote from: Tom S on 2013-01-31 03:05
Here are some of the places I found while looking for something wider.
http://www.mnpctech.com/Engine_Turned_Vinyl_Film.html
This next one might be your best bet. 24" wide by 12" should be enough for the whole dash.
"This seller does not ship to Alaska/Hawai" (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/tap.gif)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silver-Small-Engine-Turn-Sign-Plotter-Cutter-Vinyl-/290793277027?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b4a14663
Maybe this is a good one too but a lot more than you need. "Small Engine Turn Sign Vinyl, choose your color and size, self-adhesive." $12.95, 12"X10'! Shipping to me is $11.25, almost as much as the product.
http://stores.ebay.com/Paper-Street-Plastics/Brush-Gold-Leaf-Engine-Turns-/_i.html?_fsub=1470367
Thanks Tom. Yea I missed it. I know Im a dummie. :iamwithstupid:
Speedway Motors offers 6" by up to 48"
Quote from: gasman826 on 2013-02-06 07:44Speedway Motors offers 6" by up to 48"
Can't find it. What name does Speedway give it? Got a link?
It's in the catalog.
Since my last post wasn't very helpful:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Engine-Turned-Aluminum-Panels,5390.html
These are panels(.063" thick)...not rolls with stick 'em on the back.
Outfit called Haneline used to make those engine turned panels in aluminum & stainless.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/Ranchero/prices.gif)
Probably who Speedway gets them from.
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs072/1101847022215/archive/1102513934835.html
I haven't been able to find the sheets at Haneline any more though. Looks like they just sell that stuff as finished gauge panels now.
So, that tape is in the catalog but not on their web site? If you could tell us what they call that tape ....?
The real engine turned aluminum would be nice but the tape would be a lot cheaper & much easier to apply around the curved ends of the '57 dash.
Without the right tools it also might be hard to cut it for gauges & such without screwing it up.
Speedway Motors is about half the price. Maybe not as good? I usually go to Speedway for the unusual things that aren't in the other big box stores. I've always been very satisfied with their stuff.