James,
I got my Transmission from Wedan Speed and Performance in Columbus, In. I got the following items for @ 3500 counting tax.
1. Tremec TKO 600 2.87 1.89 1.29 1.00 .64
2. McCleod Series 800 Clutch and Diaphram pressure plate ( Kevlar on Flywheel side, Organic on pressure plate side )
3. Toploader or T-10 ( new T10 ) input shaft, 6.5 inches long, 26 spline 1 1/16 dia.
4. 1350 transmission Yoke
5. Speedometer coupling for 3.70 rear gear and 26 inch tires
6. Backup light switch
7. Flywheel bolts
8. Clutch pressure plate bolts
9. New Throw-out bearing
10. New pilot bearing ( roller bearing style )
11. New Neophrene transmission mount.
When I ordered the transmission, Brad Wedan (owner) said that I wouldn't need a new bell housing, wrong, I have the old narrow (C3AA ) T10 mount. The Tremec needs the new Toploader, T10 mount. So. $410 for new Lakewood bell housing.
Also, the crossmember will have to be cut-up to install the new Transmission, I elect not to do that. I'd just as soon make a new one. Then, after I get that done I'll have to have a drive shaft made. That'll be another 4 to 500 dollars.
The bright side of all this is that the Tremec is just a little over an inch higher measuring from the input shaft center line. That means there's a good possibility that I won't have to raise my floor.
All told, counting the disc brakes I just put on the car I can see where I've spent $5600 on my car in the last month. Now that seems like a lot but just think of the fun I'm having.
I've been documenting the transmission installation with pictures, prices, problems etc. Wedan wants the information for his website. Do you have a place where I can upload pictures in case someone else on this forum would like to see what it takes to do this swap.
Glad to hear you're jumping back in. Jim
Like I said in the other thread, I used most of the crossmember from a 91 Mercury Grand Marquis.(Crown Vic and Town Car are the same) to make mine. I just cut the ends off and used the ends of a `57 Ford crossmember to bolt it back in. Usig the late model part gave dual exhaust capability ("double humps"), light weight, and it installed very easily. Since I made it, I took about 1/8 inch out of it, so the fit was much, much easier to get bolts started. Also, the mount fell right onto it. Once that was done, I just had to take a cutoff wheel and butcher a nice square hole in the floor for the shifter to poke through. I used a Pro 5.0 shifter in mine, best shifter I have ever used on any trtansmission. Nice and tight, short throws. I used a Hurst bolt on stick, made for a `62-64 Chevy Impala, had the right curvature for the bench seat. Very nice setup. For a driveshaft, get ready for this, Jim. I used the same aluminum driveshaft from the same Grand Marquis, it bolted right in. Since you are using the 1350 U-joint, you would have to have that yoke welded onto the driveshaft, plus matching yoke on the differential and tranny. Something to think about. I think I had close to 2300 or so in my setup. Of course I fabricated all of my own stuff, which definitely keeps costs down. I plan to do the same thing this time, except for the clutch actuation. Last time I used a cable setup, this time will be hydraulic. I may use a mod motor too, not sure yet, maybe Lightning or Cobra motor with 5 speed. More likely, a 429 based stroker with 5 speed though. Still a long way off right now, trying to chase down a good body to start on. Keep me in mind if you see a `57 Custom, no Fairlanes, or 300s, base 2 door Custom only. May consider 4 door wagon, or Ranchero if in good enough condition. Glad you chose to upgrade the hardware, it will make one fine cruiser, I guarantee you will love it.
James,
You might want to keep an eye on Ebay. I saw a 57 custom listed yesterday that advertised no rust. It was in sorry shape otherwise, but no rust. After chasing the rust on mine, that'd be a big plus if I bought another one. I'll let you know if one comes up in this part of the country.
I thought you guys were crazy thinking a front disc brakes without anti-lock were better than drums. Boy was I in for a treat. I stop now without any pull to the side, no matter what speed. In a panic stop it settles in with more stopping control. I've not locked them up yet but I've not had too. There's no doubt it's capable but it's like you don't need to. Sort of like my newer truck without the pulsating.
The bell housing came in yesterday so I'm off to the hanger to dial it in. They use offset locating pins to correct it if it's off center.
Good luck finding a car. Hopefully next year I'll be able to pick your mind face to face when I need to.
Jim
Thats the one I am working a deal on right now. I want it pretty bad, but dont really wont to go that far to get it, plus pay that price for it. It is missing a lot of hard to find stuff, though I have all the glass for it still at my place in Tennessee. It is all safe in the rafters of my dads shop. Are you seriously considering moving down to the coast? If so, that would be awesome. I know I stepped into Chevy hell when I moved down here, but I have flushed out a few more blue oval guys since then. I really wish I hadnt sold my `57. I loved that car, and didnt think I would ever sell it. When I needed the money though, it was the first thing to go. What rubbed the salt into the would was when I got the job I have now less than 3 months later. If I could have held out for 3 more months I would still have the car. Oh well, whats gone is gone, and the next one will be better. Maybe not as quick in the quarter, but much nicer looking and practical to drive. That car was on the verge of being to radical. I do have plans to tub this one, not the biggest tires, but a good size one, maybe a 15.5 X 29 or 30 out back and the skinnies up front again. As I said before, I am definitely in the planning stages right now. I hope to have something to start on soon though. Right now, I am working on a `70 Maverick for me and my son to play with. I plan to let him have it when he is old enough to drive. He will have a hand in building all of it. He will be 12 in a few months, and I have a 302 ready for him to tear down. I will be there with him through all of it, so maybe he will learn something.
By the way, Jim, I bought the car....I'll be back in the game soon... :006:
Gentleman,
Does anyone know why my stock transmission crossmember would be off center 1/2 inch to the passenger side. I'm making a new crossmember and wondering why I shouldn't center it to the frame and axle. The pinion on the axle is centered to the frame.
O yes, Transmission is in now with a one inch drop to the rear. My radiator fan still looks OK so I'm going to keep the angle instead of cutting up the floor. I cut a 4 inch circle in the center of the transmission tunnel, took the shifter part off the transmission during install and put it back on after I got the transmission bolted up. Left a clean installation without cutting up the floor. The lakewood bell housing has more bolts in it than carter has liver pills. I really don't think 315 horsepower will hurt it if the clutch were to explode. But, it holds the tremec in the right place.
So far I'm very pleased with the installation. The bell housing checked .003 off center without using offset pins. Everything has happened as planned and I'm building a crossmember now. I just wish I'd done this last year instead of putting new gears in the T85 with everyone telling me I was wasting my time rebuilding the T85.
I'm using the same mount holes on the original crossmember to hold the new crossmember. I'll have 3/16 mounting plates with 2 X 2 square tubing making the rest of the mount. It looks good drawed out on the table hope it works as good in practice. Jim
Not really the horsepower that would hurtif the clutch exploded. it's the rpm. The faster the motor is turning, the more apt the clutch would be to saw its way through the floor, your feet, etc. One of my uncles had a Henry J gasser back in the day, launched a clutch and flywheel assembly through the floor, roof and up about 100 feet or so. If the driver seat and steering hadnt been relocated to the backseat, it would have likely taken off his right leg. Better to be safe than sorry, I always say. All my manual trans hotrods have had scattershields because of that story. Glad to hear it's coming together well. Trust me, your first drive, you will definitely wonder why you didnt do it to start with. I guarantee you will love it.
Quote from: JimNolan on 2007-10-29 20:29
Gentleman,
Does anyone know why my stock transmission crossmember would be off center 1/2 inch to the passenger side. I'm making a new crossmember and wondering why I shouldn't center it to the frame and axle. The pinion on the axle is centered to the frame. Jim
Jim
The engine and trans are offset to the passanger side and the pinion is centered. This is so the U joints will turn keeping the bearings working the same idea as the angle between the trans and rear end should be the same but opposite. GM and Chrysler center the engine and offset the pinion for the same result.
Gerry
Gerry,
Bless you. I just took the transmission mount to the welders to get it welded. My 110 volt mig welder worked great tacking everything together but I need it professionally welded.
I had no idea why it was offset. I just thought the factory mount was screwed up. Your answer came just in time to keep me from making another mistake. Thanks, Jim
Gentlemen,
I got the transmission crossmember bolted in. I ended up with 3/4 inch to passenger side. It should have been 1/2 inch, don't know how that happened but I'm leaving it for now and see how it feels at high speed.
Welded the emergency cable brackets to the new crossmember, worked out great.
Went to Indy and had a driveshaft made by ACM Driveshafts, it took them two hours and I was on my way back home. They put a 1350 u-joint in frount and a 1310 in back. He claimed the u-joint that they make to adapt the 1350 to the 1310 pinion yoke would cause vibration problems so I just had him make the back of the driveshaft 1310. The final length of the driveshaft ended up being 59 1/2 inches.
Brought the driveshaft home and painted it. I'll put it in tomorrow and finish up the installation. I still have to get the correct speedometer cable for it. Also I need a shifter and boot. I'll get that after I put the seat back in and measure for fit.
If anyone wants to see pictures of the mount, e-mail me and I'll send you the pictures.
Jim
Gentlemen,
Got the installation completed except for the speedometer cable. The transmission shifted rough when I first started it. I left it jacked up and ran the gears about 20 minutes simulating speed. After I drove it around for a while it started shifting great and the gears weren't hard to find. I took it out on the four lane and wound it up to 2200 rpm in fifth. That should have been over 70 mph. There weren't any vibrations to speak of so I might be OK as far as the alignment of the transmission goes.
One of the things that surprised me was the pressure it takes to engage the diaphram pressure plate. I thought it would have taken a lot less effort.
I really like the transmission but I see now that I'll be starting out in 2nd. If you start out in first, you don't roll very far until you have to shift anyway. First thu 4th feels good, plenty of acceleration, then when you put it in fifth all the noise goes away and if you're not careful you'll lug the engine if you're not making pretty good speed.
I've got to put about 500 miles on it before I hammer it. That's OK though, if it prolongs the life of this setup and prevents me from having problems I'm all for it.
Except for making a crossmember and having to buy a bell housing this was a simple swap without cutting the tunnel. I raised the back of the transmission to the SAME height that I had before. The shifter in the middle of the hump really isn't causing any problems. I can shift OK and may not get a 2 inch offset shifter.
Jim
Jim you may want to check with the manufacturer of the clutch & pressure plate. With some of the new units you don't need to use the spring on the clutch pedal. It will make the clutch action a little softer.
Gerry
Gerry,
I removed the big spring underneath the dash and all I have left is a light spring to keep the throwout bearing pulled back. The big spring on my 57 acts like a fulcrum. It pulls the pedal up at the top and pulls the pedal down when you push in the clutch. I think I'm going to put the big spring back on. I also had to lengthen the Z bar so I could get more stroke during clutch engagement. The diaphram pressure plate takes a longer stroke to disengage the clutch. The 3 arm pressure plate I had took very little distance to disengage the clutch. I have the old 57 Ford Z bar.
The car is shifting better every time I drive it. The reverse gear grinding got me at first but I read where you go to 4th first and then to reverse to lessen the clash. I tried it and it works. Right now I couldn't be happier. It's apparently going to be a good installation. The nice thing is that you cruise at 60 mph and do 1850 rpm, 65 mph is 2000 rpm and 70 mph is 2150. That's better than my old T85 overdrive transmission. Now, if I can just get my Mastercard bill paid.
Jim when you lengthened the Z bar did you do both ends? If you just did the clutch end and not the pedal end you lost some leaverage that way and would take more effort to operate.
Gerry,
I just did the clutch end, 1 1/2 inches. The pedal end would put the accuator bar coming from the clutch pedal out of the hole cut in the floor board. But, I think you may be right. Makes sense that the longer I make it the more force it would take to move it. I'm getting by now so when I put the spring back in, all I'll really have to overcome is the first couple inches of pedal travel and then the rest will be assisted by the spring. Hopefully
Jim
Gerry,
I was wrong about the spring assist. It's only goes into the assist mode when it's almost all the way down. I put the spring back on and it's worse until I get to the floor and then it's easier. Jim
I swapped in the TKO 600 into my '57 Custom last winter. Works great and everything is fine. If you are thinking of doing this swap with a Lakewood bell housing behind a FE or 385 engine and using a hydraulic throwout bearing, consider this. Do not pay extra for the shorter TKO input shaft...use the cheaper spacer between the bell and front of the transmission. The selection of a slip-on hydraulic throwout bearing is cheaper and easier. Down side...it moves the transmission back 3/4". Just a FYI...cheaper and easier!!!
Hi Guys:
Has anyone done the Tremec swap behind a small block (351W)? Can you keep your Lakewood bellhousing (scatter shield)? Do you have to get rid of your equalizer bar
(Z-bar)? I'm looking for options to get a good overdrive capability and keep the manual trans. I know I could go to a Gear Venders Overdrive or an automatic w/overdrive. I really like the shifting option, but am tired of listening to the engine reving at 3300 - 3500 rpm when travleing on the freeway. Also the 5 to 12 miles/gallon makes distance driving a bit costly (more than a Tremec over time).
Bob
57AGIN
Jim , I saved a double hump crossmember from a donor 88 towncar, I thought it would help with the exhaust. Mark
Thats pretty much what I used to make mine, Mark. It makes it easy to run big dual exhausts, plus I could have my crossmember put in in about 1/3 the time of the OEM..Good save.
Bob, I used a late model Mustang 5.0 lakewood bell for my Tremec, with a cable operated clutch. You will have to fabricate an arm for the clutch pedal to operate the cable. Use a new cable for a `79-80 Mustang or Fairmont with manual trans. This cable has a threaded adjustment on the fork end. If you make the arm long enough, you can get plenty of adjustment on the cable. That is where I amde my mistake, I put the arm on the short side, and couldnt make it long enough to disengage the clutch completely. It is easy enough to do, I just swapped to a C4 instead. This one will be manual trans from day one (came with 272 and 3 spd, will be big block and 5 spd). I will be running a hydraulic clutch on this one to avoid any errors this time.
James,
Can you post the Tremec Swap write up with pictures that I sent you. That shows pretty much every detail of the swap. As far as the swap goes, it's fantastic. The transmission apparently is about 1/2 inch lower at the tailshaft than the previous transmission. I didn't think so at first but the fan is a little bit off and the long air cleaner I use is sitting too close to the hood latch to be in the original position. Not much, but noticable to me. I don't think anyone else could spot it though.
I've probably got 500 miles on the transmission now. It performs flawlessly. I like pulling up beside some kid at a traffic light. You pull out with him when the light changes and by the time you've gone through all the gears his eyes are as big as saucers.
Gasman indicated that the standard input shaft that comes with the TREMEC and using a spacer that put the transmission rear mount 3/4 inch farther back was the way to go. For me, I liked the idea of the transmission mount in the exact same location as the original mount. Yes, if the TREMEC didn't have that big bottom hump at the back, you could have used the original crossmember as it set in the car without changing ANY holes in the crossmember. I think James elaborated on that. The crossmember I made for this swap geometrically uses the same holes and distances as the original crossmember. All I did was redirect the crossmember away from that bottom hump on the TREMEC.
The clutch linkage for me was a no brainer. I didn't want to re-invent the wheel. I figured the same clutch linkage used for fifty years without trouble could work the few more that I've got left.
Here's a breakdown on parts. 1. TKO 600----------------------------------1975.00 2. Ram 900 series clutch and PP------------350.00
3. TKO clutch and flywheel bolts--------25.00 4. TKO Slip Yoke---------------------------------100.00
5. TKO FE Input Shaft--------------------250.00 6. TKO Reverse switch---------------------------25.00
7. TKO neutral safty delete---------------10.00 8. TKO speedometer adapter------------------70.00
9. TKO Transmission Fluid------------------45.00 10. TKO Ford Pilot Bearing-----------------------16.00
11. TKO Ford Throw Out Bearing--------38.00 12. TKO Urethane Trans Mount----------------30.00
13. Lakewood Bell Housing 15210------415.00 14. Crossmember Fab. and Welding---------100.00
14. New Driveshaft and U joints---------325.00 15. Freight-------------------------------------------160.00
I'm not entirely stupid so I realize that I could have done this a lot cheaper if I had scrounged around for parts. But, I chose to have someone that did this for a living figure out what I needed, when I needed it and ship it to me. My car wasn't down for a long time and the results were as anticipated. I'm happy, the cars happy, my dog's happy. Now if I can get on the good side of my wife again. Jim
Jim, I posted it directly above this post. I will be putting it on our main site in a new tech area soon, with the most commonly acked tech questions, brakes, engine swaps and so forth. Thanks again for the great write-up.