Saturday about 4 am I'm heading up to Randy Conners place to pickup a ranchero, going up with my brother and his rollback. Randy has quite a collection of 57 & 58 fords. Many from different parts of the country. He has part's cars as well, if you need something and can't find it, send me a pm with your contact info and what you are looking for , and I'll pass it along. I'll get some pics of my deal, and post next week. Mark :006:
Mark
I having computer problems and can't send or receive email or PMs. I did call Randy . He said that he will be looking for a custom steering wheel for me.
Please take a picture of it for me if he has one and tell him that I can only be reached by phone or on this forum until I get this thing fixed.
Drive carefully , have a safe trip and thanks a lot Jay Ecode70D. .
No problem Jay, I'm sure he has one or two.
Got back from Randy's place in the Wisconsin Northwoods, pretty much a 24 hour adventure for us. Went up 4 am Saturday, arrived a bit late due to a fuel issue with my brothers International diesel. Visited with Randy for about 3-3 1/2 hours. Nice collection of e code stuff, There was two customs, two 500's,two t-birds, all in the bldg with two 5.0 shelbys, and a fine 66 fairlane 427 2-4bbl car. Outside is a collection of projects in waiting, a few e-code rancheros and 300's.I did see the elusive" package tray" Or rear seat delete panel. In another building is an ex squad car, very clean. We walked out to the parts cars, many 57 & 58's all shapes and sizes. I purchased a complete quarter panel from a 2 door wagon, as the ranchero I picked up needs quarter panel work. All in all I'm pleased with the car I bought, the sub floors are very good, it has a good front clip with Frenched headlights,box area is solid, cowl and roof rails are solid, hinge pockets are solid. I need to repair the toe board area of the floors, as usual, and a little bit in the backseat foot wells. I'm sorry to say my camera took a dive while I was there, don't have any pictures other than these.
Very nice. Where is Randy located in Wisconsin?
way up in the North west corner south of Ashland, near to Cable home of the Birkebiner ski race. :tree: :tree: :rudolf: :rudolf: :help1: We drove over 750 miles , went home by way of Eagle River to see my nephews place. Good weather ,upper 20's, clear roads.
Mark
That's a real nice looking rust free quarter panel. Are you going to weld it on, or use that new panel adhesive? The good thing about the panel adhesive is that the the metal does not get warped . That stuff really works.
Jay
Wow, that is a really nice panel. I wish i could find one like that for my delivery, as the previous owner really made a mess of it.
Randy has a bunch of nice stuff and is super talented. His restorations look great.
If anyone needs info on how to use the Panel Bond Adhesive or any seam sealers, they can contact me. I am the 3M rep for West Texas/Eastern New Mexico.
I think Randy is closer to me Mark. But nice looking car and nice panel. I know a fireman in Waukesha. My wife's cousin
I would be interested in hearing about the panel adhesives, I would guess we still tack weld them in place? I had the panel in the shop Sunday, the inner workings of the area on each side of the wheel well are different between the ranchero and the wagon. Also he top lip by the bed rail changes with the wagon post. Don't know if I should try to hang the entire quarter, or seam it under the side trim strip. I'm going to take it slow & low, try to avoid mistakes. The inside of the panel is just as nice, wheel well and inner panels are good. Jay, the steering wheels he showed me were cracked worse than mine, looked at a few in the cars in the woods also, they are pretty rough. Mark
Mark Give it a lot of thought and ask advice from the guys on the forum. I would not try to hang the entire panel. You might give some thought to seaming it under the side trim. This will also involve cutting it and stepping the original panel. You will also have to carefully remove the inner fender panel by drilling out the spot welds. You can use pieces from the donor inner panel to repair your original inner panels. Suede 57 Ford stated that he is a rep. for that product is willing to give you advice on prepping and applying it. He is also in a position to tell us how good the product really is. All you have to do is ask him. I'm told that when you properly bond two pieces of sheet metal together, if you clamp it and try to pull it apart, the sheet metal will rip before the bond breaks. I'm also told that airplane wings and the complete suspension in the newer GT 40 are also bonded together. I'm hoping that some of the guys will chime in on how they did their panels so that you can get some more ideas.
When you get a chance, please post a picture of your wheel and let me know what you want for it. I still can't send or receive email or PMs. I need a 10 year old kid to show me how to fix my computer. Jay
years ago ''my boy'' sold Kent products to body shops and a couple oems in this area. he wanted some way to demonstrate the product strength. not sure if the idea was his or not but the following is what we did. we cut some 3/16th plate into 6''x6'' squares and cut matching pieces of 18 gauge sheetmetal. the plates got a roughly 4''x4'' window cut into them. then he bonded pieces with his product and a couple others and then they sat for 24 hours in my garage. the next day we clamped them in a vise and proceeded to hammer away thru the cut out window with a 16 oz ball peen hammer and we indeed manage to rip the sheetmetal on all of them without any bonding failure.
the other test he did was to clue small strips of metal unto a larger piece and following each manufacturers instructions for set up time allowed them to sit flat on the workbench then stood it up on edge, this took a few days to complete. what we learned was that some product did creep off location. not much but enough that it could cause some problems. I did one headlight ring on my 51 ford with his product of course it had to be held in place (gravity sucks at times) and it was a lot faster and easier than wire feeding the other side. In this case a bit of duct tape held it overnight. now if I was going to had a large panel think the best approach would be to flange patch panel line it up good and either use clecos or pop rivets to hold it while the adhesive has time to setup.
Someone called it a new product not sure how long its been around but its far from new. my daughters' vw rabbit front fenders were bonded not welded on.
biggest issue using the stuff is the cost of the ''caulking gun'' needed to apply the adhesive. They're not cheap and unless things have changed there is no commonality between manufacturers. in other words my Kent gun wont work with Fusar or others.
am sure that suede57 can enlighten us further with some pros and cons, I personally wouldn't hesitate to use it. for me the pros outweigh the cons. faster,cleaner,safer, no warpage issues or fire concerns.
my 2 cents........... :deadhorse:
Zap- :unitedstates:
Zap
That was a real good explanation for the strength of the product.
Some years ago I was attaching a 58 quarter from a donor car. It was a long panel and there was no one was around to help me hold it in place.
I cut the old one off, stepped it and held the replacement on temporally with sheet metal screws. Then I took a pencil and marked the panels where the screw holes were,applied the product, and started setting the screws back in the same holes. Before the product was just about all set up I backed the screws off just a little to break the seal on them. When it was all dried, I just took the screws out and filled the screw holes with some of the product. The panel is nice and straight and I still see that car at car cruises many years later.
That was my first time bonding a panel and did several after that.
I'm the guy that mistakenly referred to it as new. I probably should have said newer than welding.
Jay Ecode70D
I refer to these products as new also, I guess I'll always be old school :003:. I have never used them myself but the first application that I saw a number of years ago almost gave me a heart attack. Cheby/GMC trucks have been gluing their door hinges to the frame for years. I always thought that must be a PITA when you need to change them, but I guess it can be done. I prefer bolts myself..
You can heat the adhesive to release it. I bought my gun on eBay. I bought the gun for small tube 3M but other brands fit...SEM. I glued my roof on and fender extensions on both ends. I glued the lower seam of the outer rockers to the inner rockers. Great stuff. No heat warp. NO RUST IN THE SEAMS!!! Seams are sealed. Exposed adhesive needs a coat of ALL Metal...paint does not bond well. First impression was that it is expensive. Once I used it and seen the quality of the seam...not so expensive. A partial tube will store for a long time. That's why you get extra nozzles. The only down side is you need a lot of clamps.
That's alot of clamps!!
Not to get off topic again, but your car's looking good..although I know you got paint on it now.
I don'r remember seeing any pics since the paint was finished...or are you still buffing, or assembling?
Flange and stepping up? I tested out a pnuematic tool that prints a flat step or flange, then the other fucntion was it punched a hole in the overlapping panel for a spot weld, is this what we are talking about? Anything to keep from welding on the body, I'm all in. My friend who helped me on this 57 so far,has a 63 Nova that is tubbed and stubbed. He decided the wheel wells needed to be welded to the quarters, made a serious mess of them, still trying to straighten them out, :violent5: Mark
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2013-02-12 10:52
That's alot of clamps!!
Not to get off topic again, are you still buffing, or assembling?
Still wet sanding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Frankenstein57 on 2013-02-12 17:36
Flange and stepping up? I tested out a pnuematic tool that prints a flat step or flange, then the other fucntion was it punched a hole in the overlapping panel for a spot weld, is this what we are talking about? Anything to keep from welding on the body, I'm all in. My friend who helped me on this 57 so far,has a 63 Nova that is tubbed and stubbed. He decided the wheel wells needed to be welded to the quarters, made a serious mess of them, still trying to straighten them out, :violent5: Mark
that's exactly what we're talking about, and the mess you mentioned is exactly why using panel adhesives is a great idea.
Zap- :unitedstates:
Mark
That's what we are talking about. I have both flanging tools air and manual. I would recommend the manual. It looks like a pair of vice grips. They are made in two sizes about 1/2" wide and about 1" wide. The air one could run away with you and warp a panel if you are not accustomed to doing it. Even after all these years, I use the manual one.
When you have cut your quarter where you want it and put the new one up against the flange that you have made, everything is nice and flat after it is bonded together. All you will need is a little filler to cover the edge. If you do this under your side trim, it will be not noticeable.
This is the way to do it without putting heat on it and warping the metal.
Body shops are using this method today. Those cars are out in the hot sun and extremely cold , wet weather and snow. So they have been doing it long enough that they have stood the test of time in my honest opinion.
Jay
Quote from: gasman826 on 2013-02-12 18:34
Still wet sanding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gary I'm still at the wet sanding stage. It seems to never end and I really really don't like it. Some day this coming summer, I hope to finish wet sanding mine and spray some paint on it. Sometimes I just get tempted to just put the trim and bumpers on it and drive it in primer like we kids did in
the 50s and called it done. Things were so simple then.
Flanging panels is not the preferred method on jointing two finish panels due to the rust issue in the joint of a welded panel. That is way there is so much to do about butt welding finish seams. Using panel adhesive eliminates or greatly reduces the rust in the seam issue. The adhesive no only bonds the seam but it also seals the seam for rust protection. Flanging and panel adhesive work great together.
Mark I sent you a PM. I finally got my computer working so that I can send and receive email and PMs. Jay
How about this for panel warpage, this was under a sheet of bondo on this body I gave up on. It was where rust repair and big dent intersect. Mark
Man that bondo looks about 1/2" thick in one area. Ha! If we were into ratrods I'd tell ya to clearcoat it and call it done.
Based on what I see in the single photograph, it appears that the person who made the repair started with a good solid replacement panel and was unable to control the welding heat.
How good is the rest of the car? In my opinion, anything can be repaired.
Jay, the car is pretty soft all over. The windshield frame has several soft spots with holes, hinge pockets, rockers,in and out.Quarters in front and back of the wheel,I already put floor pans in it, and body mounts. This is a classic case of buying an old car off an ebay picture. The tail was also shot around the bumper area. As Rich would say, sheeeet! After I repainted the 58, I learned about body work, and started looking for a more solid piece. What I paid will offset the many hours of bodywork this thing needed. Mark :homer:
That really falls into the category of saving a car. Awesome you're doing that. A lot of folks wouldn't have. By the way, speaking of saving Rancheros, on the hamb, "ExStreamliner" has updated his photo gallery on the chopped Ranchero he is saving. The album has over 200 pics. Check it out if you haven't already.
Those guys are doing some awsome work!
impressive isn't it? I wonder if he's building it for a customer..they gotta have really deep pockets. Also if you notice in some of the component pics...he's got 2 or 3 sets of alot of things going on there.core supports,splash shields, etc.
He is taking stuff off that I would consider "good replacement" parts.....
[quote author=RICH MUISE l speaking of saving Rancheros, on the hamb, "ExStreamliner" has updated his photo gallery on the chopped Ranchero he is saving. The album has over 200 pics. Check it out if you haven't already.
[/quote]
Mark, Check out that thread that Rich is referring to. Toward the end of it, it gives good pictures of how the inner and outer panels fit together. You will need to know that information when you remove and fit your new panel. Jay
Thanks, just so I'm not confusing anyone here, the chassis for this car is about 90% done. I have alot of hours in it, with help from my friend. I just kind of parked it when I bought the 58, there is a bunch of shots in the gallery, under construction. So having this body I got from Randy, will shorten up the build by a year or two. I'll start a thread when sparks start flying. I'm presently installing a larger air compressor in the shop, Mark