A few weeks ago, Whisper brought up the subject of the hard throttle linkage. He had mentioned his had a slot in it. The pic I posted of my oem linkage had a spoonshaped end on it. Jay (ecode57) sent me some pics last night of two different linkages, both removed from '57 Fords. One was like the one I had posted, but low and behold, the other had a slot in and had a pin. The slotted one however, does not appear to be like the one in the original pic that whisper posted.
I realize most of us have no way of knowing if a part had been fitted from another vehicle.
If there were two different linkages used on '57's, that also would mean there were two different gas pedals. I've never looked at the repros offered for sale, but I've never seen anyone offer different options either.
The interesting thing for me is, the '63 gas pedal I am working on has a verticle retainer which would work with the slotted linkage / pin. My oem gas pedal has a horizontal retainer the would work with the spoon end....so I'm thinking the slotted linkage Jay removed from a '57 parts car at one time began life on a later year model. Thoughts?
Rich
The Calif. model 59A 2 door wagon that I picked up about two months still has the same linkage in it. It's just like the forward one in the picture with the slotted hole and the pin. Don't know if Calif makes a difference but just thought that I should mention it.
The spoon type one in the rear rear part of the picture is just like the one in my model 70. I could have messed up and put the wrong one in it because I took it apart over 14 years ago.
So it is quite obvious that I have come in contact with both types of throttle linkage over the years. I have had lots of 58s so maybe one type is out of a 58.
Don't know for sure. Jay
Are you using the oem gas pedal in the 70D, or did you buy a repro?
Quote from: RICH MUISE Are you using the oem gas pedal in the 70D, or did you buy a repro?
/quote]
I just went out and removed the repro pedal from the 70D and found out that I have to retract my previous statement. The 70D has the throttle linkage with the slotted hole also and it was working fine with the repro. pedal in the picture.
The upper repro pedal in the picture must be for the spoon type linkage.
The used lower pedal is the one that comes with the slotted linkage.
Sorry about my misstatement.
The slotted linkage I had was from 1958 ford,least wise that is what year the motor is,I know that a lot of the trucks had the slots linkage in them.which is a shorter linkage rod on it,so repro gas pedal i had ordered off of @#$ay.com would not hook up to it,but a very nice person,send me the spoon type with the longer linkage on it,now everything is great.
The slotted one is the same as my 70A. I cut the top portion of the bell crank and welded a piece of flat bar, drilled a hole and used a Lokar throttle cable assembly. Trying to modify the the stock linkage from the carb on down just wasn't going to work with my 460 swap.
Is it possible that the linkage is different for cars fitted with overdrive? Seems I remembered a "kickdown" feature in one of my old fords but that was a lot of years ago! My 70B has the "slotted" linkage and it was a overdrive car.
I took a look in my 57 and 58 Car shop manuals.
57 Manual page 2-88 Figure 101 shows throttle linkage as in the picture with with hole for the mounting pin.
58 Manual page 2-98 Figure 148 shows throttle linkage as the spoon type.
So the throttle linkage that is in my mod. 70 correct. The incorrect 58 gas pedal that I have will do for now until I get a 57 gas pedal.
With a forumn decoted for a one year make, I'm amazed we can still come up with new stuff once and a while to discuss. Great response guys.
Jay...Hard to tell from your pic...but is the old pedal's round clip is actually open at the top? If so, it is identical to mine that was used with the spoon shaped linkage.
It looks to me like the design of the repro pedal could be used with either? Where does the linkage pin fit in on the repro? I'm assuming thru one side of the bracket?
My 70A was a 6 cyl manual w/ no overdrive.
[quote author=RICH MUISE link
Jay...Hard to tell from your pic...but is the old pedal's round clip is actually open at the top? If so, it is identical to mine that was used with the spoon shaped linkage.
It looks to me like the design of the repro pedal could be used with either? Where does the linkage pin fit in on the repro? I'm assuming thru one side of the bracket?
My 70A was a 6 cyl manual w/ no overdrive.[/quote]
Rich the old pedal is not open on the top. It has a metal strip around the rubber inner piece.
Well it is open a little but that looks like it is from old age.
See pictures of old pedal loop.
That is the same as mine. Mine didn't have the rubber grommet, and it had spread open about 3/8 of an inch...I guess I never realized that wasn't how it was suppose to be. Wear marks on my old one looks like the linkage was riding on the pedal beside the clip (doesn't seem like that would be like the factory designed it). I'm sure glad I'm not trying to build a spec car...another minor thing that would drive you nuts trying to figure out.
Another detail to wonder about...on both my new '63 pedal, and my oem'57 pedal there is a metal tab on the backside, about 3" up from the bottom. Anybody know what that's for? I'm wondering if it's for a spring.
LOL...anyone have a pristine '57 that's never been touched?
[quote author=RICH MUISE linkand a while to discuss.
It looks to me like the design of the repro pedal could be used with either? Where does the linkage pin fit in on the repro? I'm assuming thru one side of the bracket? [/quote]
Rich It looks like the repro pedal could be used with either gas throttle bracket. The repro pedal has two starter holes on the inside of each of the tabs. If you run a pick from one side to the other, it could be pinned.
The picture is crummy, but you should be able to see the hole. There is one on the inside of both of the high spots under the repro pedal.
This will not help you though because it looks like you need something that is open on the top.
Rich
"metal tab"
Look at picture 012 . The right one has what looks like a metal tab and the left original one looks like the remnants of one. Actually it is a rubber bumper under the pedal that is probably supposed to hit the floor first. It does not look like it is for a spring.
Earlier this morning, I sent a PM to whisper38 asking him what his incorrect epay gas pedal looks like. Maybe he'll chime in later this evening and help clear things up.
I have an old replacement after market pedal that looks just like Jays, the box says 57-59 Ford, 59 Edsel. I don't know what goes into the two small holes that Jay described, some kind of a spring clip?
My Ranchero has the slotted linkage but with a home made metal pedal bolted to it that the PO installed so I don't have the original pin either. I think I'll just leave the metal pedal, it works fine :003:
[quote author=hiball3985 link I have an old replacement after market pedal that looks just like Jays, the box says 57-59 Ford, 59 Edsel. I don't know what goes into the two small holes that Jay described, some kind of a spring clip? [/quote]
Jim
It's very interesting that the box for yours states 57-59. Does yours have the holes like mine on the inside of the tab, but going only half way through? Look at my picture #011 and you will see one of the holes. At least my repro one does work in my car and will look correct for now until I get the right one for it.
Is there any chance that you might post a picture of yours ? Inquiring minds.
In the 57 and 58 Ford car shop manuals, the picture of each pedal look similar except for the side view.
Jay
quote Jay:"This will not help you though because it looks like you need something that is open on the top."
Actually this is only a topic of interest for me. ....I'm using the Mark viii cable/throttle linkage with a '63 pedal.
Quote from: RICH MUISE link Jay:"This will not help you though because it looks like you need something that is open on the top."/quote]
Rich in order for me to be correct I need a good pedal like the worn out/rusted out piece in my picture (#037) that can be attached with the pin.
I'm just going to stick with the reproduction pedal that I have for now until I find a good 57 one. The repro pedal works with my throttle linkage and when everything is in place only the trained eye will notice it. "I ain't gonna let this stop me from driving the car."
Jay
Quote from: Ecode70D on 2013-07-26 18:49
[quote author=hiball3985 link I have an old replacement after market pedal that looks just like Jays, the box says 57-59 Ford, 59 Edsel. I don't know what goes into the two small holes that Jay described, some kind of a spring clip?
Jim
It's very interesting that the box for yours states 57-59. Does yours have the holes like mine on the inside of the tab, but going only half way through? Look at my picture #011 and you will see one of the holes. At least my repro one does work in my car and will look correct for now until I get the right one for it.
Is there any chance that you might post a picture of yours ? Inquiring minds.
In the 57 and 58 Ford car shop manuals, the picture of each pedal look similar except for the side view.
Jay
Jay, mine looks exactly like yours with the two holes on the inside. Thats what I was wondering about as to what they are for. I'll try to get a picture posted tomorrow morning.
Jay,
Here is what mine looks like, it looks likes yours. I think this is for the spoon type linkage. I think there must be a spring clip or something that goes in the holes to secure it to the linkage.
Jim
Thank you for posting the picture of your gas pedal and the box it came in. They both look the same to me also. Since the ''side profile" of both of are like the one for a 58 , and not like a 57, I went and took another look at the 58 Ford manual. I was especially looking for some sort of a clip or pin in the illustration and "found none".
I checked the fit of the 57 and 58 throttle linkage between the tabs on the gas pedal and noticed two more ribs in between the side tabs. See my picture #037.
The 58 throttle linkage seems to ride between the two smaller ribs centering it between the larger tabs.
The 57 throttle linkage fits nicely between the side tabs and stays in place.
Since the larger tabs have some give to them by spreading them apart, I'm going to make a 1/8" pin that pops into the holes on the tabs. The pin will go through the enlongated hole on the 57 linkage and pop into the holes on the tabs.
If I were using 58 linkage, the pin would go behind the so called spoon.
In any event this should keep the pedal in place and not let it pop forward if it wanted to do so.
At least if it is done this was I will not be hurting or altering anything.
The number under my gas pedal is B 7A 9735. In my opinion, someone put some thought into making these pedals taking 57 to 59 in account and tried to keep them looking original. I bought mine many years ago and don't know where it came from and never saved the box like you did.
It would be nice to have an original, but what I do have will have to do for now.
This business of trying to keep things as original as possible can drive a person nuts, but it is fun. Jay
Jay,
Thanks for the info. When I bought the Ranchero it didn't have an original pedal but I knew I had one buried in the garage and when I found it I was surprised it was still in the box. I think I will try your idea and make a pin to go through the slot in the linkage. I'm not concerned about 100% correct its not a show car. At this point I'm not sure what is correct anyways :003: It seems some have the spoon and some have a slot, maybe a mid year design change?
The odd thing to me, unless I missed something, is we've got two types of linkage, but the oem pedals posted so far seem to be better suited for the slotted linkage even though some (at least mine) had the spoon linkage that the repro pedals seem to be better suited for. My gas pedal worked, and I didn't pay much attention to it when I disassembled the car, but the spoon linkage and the pedal with the circular clip doesn't seem to pair up quite right.
My '63 repro pedal, btw, came with the 3/16(?) pin installed between the 2 ears.
Rich,
I agree, it is odd. I think you have it right, two different pedals and two different linkages. It's probably one of those mysteries we will never solve.
Rich
You are right.. The old pieces of oem (1957) pedals that you and I have are better siuted for the for the slotted (1957) linkage. Like I stated before..That's exactly what is in my 2dr 57 wagon.
The spoon type linkage (1958) does not pair up with the with the circular clip and pin. I can't figure out how they paired up and worked in your car before you dissembled it.
We just have to accept the fact that back in the day we just used what we had to keep em running. I was the biggest offender and when I was tearing them up, I was not thinking that I might still working on them in the year 2013, 50+ years later.
I'm very thankful that I grew up and was actively messing with cars in the 50s. In my opinion it was the time when America made the very best automobiles. Did you ever wonder if these things that they are putting out now would be around 50 years from now?
Jim... You'r right too....We ain't gonna solve this one.
Jay
Jay,
These new cars are just throw aways just like everything else they make these days, cheap plastic and electronics and now batteries :003:. If we can still get fuel in the future our old cars will outlast them all.
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2013-07-27 20:52
Jay,
These new cars are just throw aways just like everything else they make these days, cheap plastic and electronics and now batteries :003:. If we can still get fuel in the future our old cars will outlast them all.
I gotta disagree 100% on that one. In the 50's and 60's the cars were rotting away less than 10 years old, and 60-70K miles was considered a high mileage car. I don't like all the plastic either, but realistically...what's the alternative?? I for one, after working on my '57 for 7 years now am extremly grateful they don't make cars like they use to, but the simplicity of the old cars sure is nice.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2013-07-28 08:41
I gotta disagree 100% on that one. In the 50's and 60's the cars were rotting away less than 10 years old, and 60-70K miles was considered a high mileage car. I don't like all the plastic either, but realistically...what's the alternative?? I for one, after working on my '57 for 7 years now am extremly grateful they don't make cars like they use to, but the simplicity of the old cars sure is nice.
I agree with you Rich from that point, but depending on where you lived they didn't all rot away in 10 years. When I bought my first 57 in 1966 is was solid as rock. The point is they are still around after 50 years, how many of the new cars will be? Neither of us will be here to find out but I bet there won't be many :003:. I can just picture people at cars shows 50 years from now drooling over a 2011 Prius that someone restored :003:
The alternative for me is a 1966 Mustang, 1960 F100 panel and a 57 Ranchero. I've never bought anything newer and never will.
I know this is an old topic, but most of the background information is in this post. My car has the slotted linkage with pin through it. Does anyone know where a correct gas pedal for it can be found. All of the repros are that I have seen are for the spoon type linkage.
Thanks, Randy
Randy
If you do find someone who is making/selling the correct gas pedal, please let us know. Obviously there are a bunch of us that want one. Jay
Does anyone know the correct part number for the type of pedal that uses a pin. The parts book that I have doesn't list a pedal for '57 cars.
Looks like this is where a nice Speed King pedal would solve all this.lol
Zap - :unitedstates:
I started with two 57 convertibles, an E code overdrive and a D code automatic. Both had the slotted pedal linkage. This has been a long project and much searching has not yielded any pedal available other than for the spoon type. I modified a spoon pedal by cutting the bracket from an old pedal and pop riveting it in same position on a repo pedal. Works fine. Use steel rivets and holes can be filled with Devcon or other rubber compound to look untouched.
Thomasso
That's a great idea. Now all I have to do is find that old original pedal, and graft the two of them together.
The repro pedal and original look to be about 1/2" height difference, the original is shorter, did this cause any issues when you modified the repro?
Hi ; I,m going to try to post some pictures of my modified pedal. Correct positioning is critical. I did this some time ago and must have thrown the old stuff away. Can't remember any difference in pedal length. Works fine.
Thanks for the pictures, Looks good, I may try do this.