Rich or anyone else.
OK, I'm ready to move this radiator Rich. I've seen the pictures from the last time we hashed this out. I've still got the tubing spacers to use and I've got three questions to ask that was never really answered with the previous posts. 1. When you moved the radiator forward did you have to drop the radiator height?. 2. Did you have to alter the core support at the bottom to enable the installation of the bottom radiator hose?. 3. Did the radiator cause any conflict with the hood clearance?. Thanks Rich and whoevers been there. Jim
Yes, yes and I don't know....I may have to alter the radiator to make it work, or move it back to where it was. I don't have my sheetmetal on, so everything is just a guess. The guys that have installed the radiator say the cap is close even in the stock position. I have my radiator down as far as it can go without further and major reworking of the core support...I did remove the flange on the inner portion of the core support and rewelded the seam. The bottom tank of the radiator is all the way down and touching the core support bolt head. With that said, this is because I believe the aluminum radiators I and others got from Auto City Classic are a bit taller than oem. If I remember correctly, you are using a griffin?? You may not have any problems moving forward at all....particularly if your cap is mounted on the side of the top tank instead of the top as oem.
I'm going to take a real good look at the spacing at the bottom you mentioned. Best of my recollection, the fan I'm running now seems awful close to the top hose anyway. I thought it was one of those "O, ****" type of reactions when I started the engine and saw the clearance the first time. I really need this radiator pulled forward about a 1/2". I found a Motzeratti clutch fan (smallest length they make) that I'm using. but, I need that 1/2".
I had trim the curved portion at the bottom of the support to fit my aluminum rad in .
It's squared up with new metal welded in, the top is also trimmed and widened .
I didn't lower mine and its moved about 2" ahead with plenty of clearance.
That's with a 460 and I'm using a fan clutch also.
I completely change mine.....why? I HAVE NO CLUE!
Quote from: hotroddonnie on 2015-01-18 15:45
I completely change mine.....why? I HAVE NO CLUE!
that's a nice installation, no room for clutch fan either.
That is a nice installation!,
Jim, what are you running for a radiator? Got pics?
Rich,
I'm running the Griffin Radiator. Two row.
Here's a pic of mine for height reference back when I was mounting the fan shroud. Like I mentioned...I'm hoping this is gonna work without redoing something.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2015-01-18 18:39
Here's a pic of mine for height reference back when I was mounting the fan shroud. Like I mentioned...I'm hoping this is gonna work without redoing something.
I think I can put an end to my question if it'll fit as the height is now. I'll form a mound of play doe about an inch forward of where the radiator cap is now.(I'm moving it about an inch). Then, I'll slam the hood and check the height of the play doe. If it's as high as the radiator cap is now, it'll work. I'll do that tomorrow. That looks like a nice installation you have, hope it works for you. Jim
Here's the results of my play doe experiment. It looks like I will be able to move the radiator straight back 1 1/2" without lowering it. It surprised me how much clearance there actually was. My new clutch fan is 2 7/8" long, my old one is 1 1/2" long. By moving the radiator back 1 1/2" I'll have 1/2" clearance between the fan and new radiator location. Jim
I love play-doh. Had a really weird socket head screw on something last year...pushed some play-doh in the socket and went out looking for a tool...no guessing.
Looks like yours will work out just fine.
It won't let me put all the pictures on at one time so here goes. In this picture it shows where the front of the radiator cap will come to.
In this picture it shows the height of the clutch fan. I had to really search to find a short length clutch fan with the same characteristics as a larger clutch fan. I looked up the fan number and it was a Hayden 2765 Clutch Fan with a Hayden 3618 Fan Blade (18"). It was made to go on a 1988/89 Jaguar.
Thats nice, I like the way the tank, neck, cap slant forward following a similar line as the hood..
Seems like i remember the 6 cyl radiator being slightly further forward than the V-8.
Core supports are the same 57-59, 6or8 so it must be the side brackets on the radiator are different.
Maybe someone with a 6 could post pics for comparison.
Ron.
There is plenty of room . I moved mine forward 1 inch. You will have to raise the radiator up about 1/8 inch or the lower tank will rub the core support .
Quote from: dgasman on 2015-01-20 01:11
There is plenty of room . I moved mine forward 1 inch. You will have to raise the radiator up about 1/8 inch or the lower tank will rub the core support .
How many times am I allowed to hit the applaud symbol for you? You've had all the answers for my installation all this time. Thanks for posting the pics of your Griffin radiator installation. Jim
The 6 cylinder radiator is 2 row and the V-8 is 3 row I'll bet the thinner core "moves the radiator forward". I have a 6 cylinder radiator in the attic, I'll pull it down and measure it and post a pic or two.
Here is a couple of pics of a 6 cyl rad (sorry for the quality). I measured 3 3/4 from the forward flange edge of the support to the rear of the core, 1 5/8 for the core thickness, and 2 for the distance from the pully fan face to the rad core.
My questions are how thick is the Griffin rad and what's the measurement from the mounting flange to the rear core face, and how about a Matson?
Dgasman, what shroud is that in your pic?
(Lalessi1 -sorry I spelled your name wrong in the other thread)
As has been said before, this forum is great for info, thanks guys!!
Somethings screwy, I couldn't postmore than 1 small pic in the last post!
Hmm-m-m.
Now, that last pic was reduced to 139Kb before I posted it but it shows on the post as 2806Kb ??????
Sorry, I tried.
edit: some idiot (me) pulled the pics out of the original folder, not the one I made to hold the re-sized ones.
There are 2 V-8 and 2 6cyl radiators (regular and H-D).
Factory A/C and H-D cooling are the thicker cores but,
are obviously very rare.
Ron.
LAUDY57 thanks for the pics. In your first pic the mounting flange for the 6 cyinder radiator is flush with the engine. For the V8 it is flush with the front of the radiator! Looks like Ford moved the radiator forward in the radiator support... There you go!!!!
Laudy57,
Here is the measurement from the core support to the back of the radiator. It's 3".
Thanks for the pics you guys! This is helping because I have been trying to find where my rad sits compared to the stock position and I was using my 6 cyl car as a comparison. I don't have the stock rad suppport and when Skyliner Ron said there's 2 of each type I was starting to wonder because if I order a rad with a 2-fan shroud (to clear the pump pulley in the centre) and it's not a custom built unit, I don't want to find out the hard way it won't fit even with mods to my mounts (I'm assuming the stock rads are the same mounting width).
In your pics I can see down to the crossmember, my bottom tank sits 1 1/2 forward from the front lip and 1/2 up from the top surface of the x-member, which looks close to both pics. The top of my cap is 23 above the x-member which leaves 3 clearance to hood (checked with model clay).
Jim, is that your Griffin rad in the pic? Is the mounting flange as it was built or was it movable and you placed it where you wanted?
My rad mounts are 1/2 sq tubes, 25 between inside faces. Easy to change or move but just I just like to know how much I need to change things before I start hacking. In the Griffin catalog there's lots of rads that look like they will fit, the combo ones with shroud that are 5.68 total thickness are close but I don't know yet if that is rad +shroud only or rad +shroud+fan thickness. It's about $300 ship to border, so have to compare to shipping from S. Cal (Matson rads).
I also struggled with the whole radiator thing. Your core support is custom. As far as that goes, your whole application is custom so measuring off a stock '57 may not be much value. Do you know for sure your radiator is '57?
I fought to get room between pulleys and radiator. I had a fixed, mechanical fan and a fiberglass shroud. I had borderline issues in slow traffic with the AC on. No highway issues. At first, I shopped for the biggest CFM electric fan I could find but they were all too thick and I was not convinced they pushed enough air. But by using two smaller fans, I could get more CFMs without the single fan thickness. The other bonus of two fans is the fans are offset with the thinnest part in the middle were your pulleys are...much like your one fan is offset to the right side of your radiator.
My rad is not a '57, even the cap is in the centre. I was just hoping I could order a 57 rad and it would work but I don't think it will. I'm going thru the Griffin catalog (which shows core size but not mounting dims) and there are some that will work with 2 fans, it's just the thickness is the issue because I have a edge on the front end that seals to the front face of the core when the front end is closed. I like the Matson that 57agin has and it looks like they make it to my measurements(?) -I just wanted to get my ducks in a row before I contact them again.
Just my 2 cents, Lorne, but the way I see it You have about as much of a chance of a '57 radiator working for you as a 72 Olds or a 59 Studebaker(?) Nothing on your setup is stock...use it to your advantage and just find or have built what you need.
The main reason I'm posting the obvious is I was wondering if you figured out what the radiator you have now is....posible the builder went with a more commonly available one like a Chebby That got me to wondering if you ever ran into anyone that knew anything about the previous owner/builder.
I'll throw my 2 cents in also. I would remove that horn that looks like it's in the opening, Thats just more restriction and may cause turbulence that screws up air flow in other areas around it.
boy! this sure is easier in a shoebox (49-51) Ford, 6 cyl radiator mounts in front of core support and is more than adequate for a sbf cooling. and on those the upper tank is sloped for hood clearance.
Zap- :unitedstates:
Good comments, thanks, I never thought about the horn and cooling! I think I've worn out that horn anyway, need to take it apart again.
Rich, no, only thing I know is what I find out as I take it apart piece by piece, writing it down as I go. I had hoped to pull the engine and see what's in there and to fix oil leaks, maybe that will happen - life just seems to get in the way, but I've 6 mon to go before a Father's Day run I want to go to so I need to scrape up some cash for the cooling, know how that goes? At least I can change the ugly PS pump and it's support now, I've fiddled the front end so that to take it off I just pull 4 pins and 3 elect plugs -it that easier when stuff is sitting right in your face!
It sure is...I'm trying to get everything done befor I put on the fenders...I may even take it for a ride before I get sheetmetal put on.
Lorne, does your car have Ron Francis wiring by any chance? If it does, you may be able to get an owner or builder's name. All Ron Francis harnesses are built to order with a serial number.
Yes it does have Francis wiring, that's interesting - I'll try that! Thanks.
Mounting a radiator with that tilt front is kinda like building a ship in a bottle.
Think you might build a cardboard box for a dummy radiator that fits then size
a radiator and mount to that.
Goodluck,
Ron.
Quote from: LAUDY57 on 2015-01-21 18:57
Yes it does have Francis wiring, that's interesting - I'll try that! Thanks.
AWESOME! Heck, just call me Sherlock! lol. The serial number should be on the panel somewhere. Maybe if they won't give you a name, they might at least give a town.
Good ideas! Wouldn't you know, just when I get all set up to do some work on car stuff, a bath tub vent in the house is screwed up. Using a remote camera to find where to get at the covered up drain trap. Ge-e-e-z!
I am going to contact R Francis!
Well, I finally got the radiator shifted forward. Here's what I encountered doing it. The opening for the radiator had to be shaved on the side's 1/4" for the radiator to fit through the opening. The radiator was raised 5/8" (including 1/16" rubber edge trim that rests on core frame edge at bottom for bottom of radiator to sit on). You can only use 3/4" square tubing to fit for side spacers. I ended up going 1/ 1/2" forward with the radiator using 2 pcs. of 3/4" square tubing on each side. Everything went OK but I am very hesitant to say everything will be OK. Radiator core to clutch housing is 1". Radiator core to fan blade is 1 5/8". Personally I don't see cooling any radiator with a fan blade 1 5/8" from the core. My old setup was 1/2" from the core to fan blade. I am thinking seriously about removing one of the 3/4" aluminum tube and setting the radiator forward 3/4" instead of 1 1/2". But, if I do that the clutch face will be 1/4" away from the core. But the fan blade will be 7/8" away from the core. That's more reasonable.