Are the axle O.D.'s the same or different on axles for a small bearing '57 9 inch vs. a '57 big bearing? I ask because I want to narrow a '57 9 inch by 3/4' on each side as I've read about here on the forum. I've yet to locate a big bearing '57, but have not given up. While I'm still looking for a big bearing version, I had this thought..........small bearing 9 inch '57 rear ends are plentiful here, so ........can I take a small bearing rear end. Cut off the flanges to narrow it..........buy big bearing flanges and bearings, and use the small bearing axles? This scenario only works, I think, IF, the axle O.D.'s on the small bearing axles and the big bearing axles are the same, which saves me some money by not having to buy new axles. Another thought,........if the axle O.D.'s are different........does anyone know if there is a bearing, with a I.D that fits a small bearing axle, and a O.D. that fits the large bearing flange? As much as I want them to be the same , my hunch is they are not, but The Forum will know and set me straight. What is the answer guys?
Thanks
John
John...as far as I know the housings are the same except for the ends. and if your having the case narrowed, just have them change it to big bearing ends. Apparently the ends are available to change to whatever configuration you wish.
Rich........that was my thought as well. What I'm not sure about is the bearing and the O.D. of the small bearing axles. Will the "Big Bearing" work on the axles from a small bearing 9 inch '57 rear end? Or are the axles in a big bearing, '57 9 inch, larger in diameter? And if they are, is there a "Big Bearing" with a Inside Diameter that fits the small bearing axle? Hope I made that clear. Someone on the Forum knows the answer.
Thanks Rich
John
According to the Ford parts catalog the id of the small brg axle shaft is 1 3/8" and the big brg id is 1 17/32". od of the the small brg is 2 13/16" and the big brg is 3 5/32".
Hope this helps.
Bill
I meant id and od of the brgs not the axle shaft.
Silly me.
Bill
Quote from: Partsman on 2015-09-21 11:31
I meant id and od of the brgs not the axle shaft.
Silly me.
Bill
Thanks Bill..........that answered it and was what I expected, but not what I had hoped for. I'll keep looking for a '57 Big Bearing 9 inch!
Why don't you source one out from a f-150? Your going to narrow it anyway and put whatever ends you want on it at the same time.
pickup housings are plentiful , stronger and a lot cheaper than a 57 housing.
John, I'm curious why you want big bearings if your not going to change the axel shafts? Is this to accomadate a specific disc brake kit that is not available in small bearing kits?
John, If you want to keep the axles you already have (small bearing) and you want big bearing ends contact a local bearing house and see if a bearing with the large OD and the small OD. There just might be the right combination out there.
Zap- :unitedstates:
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2015-09-21 11:49
John, I'm curious why you want big bearings if your not going to change the axel shafts? Is this to accomadate a specific disc brake kit that is not available in small bearing kits?
Rich, first I'm trying to not buy new axles, just to save some money.And the second answer is yes to the rear brake kit.
Quote from: rmk57 on 2015-09-21 11:46
Why don't you source one out from a f-150? Your going to narrow it anyway and put whatever ends you want on it at the same time.
pickup housings are plentiful , stronger and a lot cheaper than a 57 housing.
Very good point. I have a good source for those as well.
Thank you for making me think.
John
Quote from: Zapato on 2015-09-21 19:00
John, If you want to keep the axles you already have (small bearing) and you want big bearing ends contact a local bearing house and see if a bearing with the large OD and the small OD. There just might be the right combination out there.
Zap- :unitedstates:
That is exactly what I hoped someone here on the Forum had already done, thus saving me the time of doing the research.
I'll see what is available.
Thank you.
John
If you are going to narrow the rear end 3/4" per side, you cannot use the stock length axles anyway. You'll need to buy new special axles 3/4" shorter than stock. John
I'm not familiar with the F-150 rear ends, are they different from the earlier F-100 where the third member/pinion is off set and uses equal length axles?
Quote from: Hoosier Hurricane on 2015-09-22 06:20
If you are going to narrow the rear end 3/4" per side, you cannot use the stock length axles anyway. You'll need to buy new special axles 3/4" shorter than stock. John
Thanks for your interest and reply. I'm not arguing with you, nor am I saying you are incorrect, but I've been told by several very knowledgeable "Ford" guys that the '57 Ford 9 inch axles, small bearing or big bearing, can in fact be cut 3/4 of an inch per side. They tell me there is enough splined axle remaining, that once you dress the flush cut end ,to look like it did before the cut, that it will slip right in and you have a narrowed 9inch without buying new axles.
I measured my oem 57 axle spline and side gear lengths.
1.50 axle spline
1.125 side gear spline
Looking at the axles it looks like all the spline was engaged but the last 1/4-3/8".
John...Everything I was told would confirm what hoosier and rmk57 are saying. Just my 2cents, and I've never had one apart so I don't know from experience.
Now and again on ebay they have axles on there with about 6"-8" of extra spline, not sure of the cost. Not sure but I think Yukon gear sells axles with extra spline also.
Randy
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2015-09-22 19:17
John...Everything I was told would confirm what hoosier and rmk57 are saying. Just my 2cents, and I've never had one apart so I don't know from experience.
Rich........I've never had one apart either, so all of my information, be it good or bad , is all second or third hand. One thing is certain, IF you ask it here on this Forum, you'll get an answer to your question.
Thanks to all that replied,
John
John....pm sent on tailights
Small bearing dimensions....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Axle-Shaft-Bearing-Assembly-Premium-Rear-Centric-411-61001-/281494218351?fits=Year%3A1957%7CMake%3AFord&hash=item418a5ce66f&vxp=mtr
Large bearing dimensions.....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Axle-Shaft-Bearing-Assembly-C-TEK-Standard-Rear-Centric-411-61000E-/281735807025?fits=Year%3A1957%7CMake%3AFord&hash=item4198c34031&vxp=mtr
28 spline axles with 8" splines, cut to fit....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-TDS-FORD-9-INCH-28-SPLINE-4140-FORGED-STEEL-CTL-AXLES-1-PAIR-2-/141662933746?hash=item20fbc4d2f2&vxp=mtr
31 spline axles with 8" splines, cut to fit...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-9-9-INCH-CUT-TO-LG-FIT-AXLES-31-SPLINE-1-PAIR-2-AXLES-WITH-ACCES-/291562050137?hash=item43e273d259&vxp=mtr
Looks to me that the 31 spline axles are larger in diameter than the 28 spline axles. 57's could have had either depending on model and ratio?
Good question...I've been trying to figure that out myself. I was guessing that the big bearing/brake cars (wagons, ranchero's etc) had the bigger dia. 31 spline axels as the reason for the bigger bearings. But that is just a guess. Or..it could be trac-loc that has the larger of the two shaft sizes/spline counts
I strongly encourage selling the '57 housing to pay for the narrowing of a more common beefier housing.
28 spline axles have a smaller diameter except where the splines are located...usually can NOT re-spline because there is no material. So some 28 spline axles have more spline than others...luck of the draw.
31 spline axles have a larger diameter than the splined area...therefore, can typically be re-splined...hence stronger...one does not have to count the splines...just look at them...31 splined axles did not appear until the early '60s ('62 or '63)...I have a 31 spline Detroit Locker that came out of a '64 Galaxie light weight
I understand the narrowing of the rear end 3/4" per side for disc brakes. Some disc brake kits require 2-1/4 to 2-1/2" between the housing flange and the face of the axle flange to support getting your fingers in to install the axle flange nuts but also support the space needed for the drum type parking brake. Many late model 9" rears supported 2.36" spacing which falls within the necessary spec. Since the Explorer style (SVO) disc brake caliper support bolts directly on the housing and is a 1/4" thick, a 1/4" thick spacer is installed between the axle bearing and the axle bearing shoulder. This makes the axle bearing bottom in the axle housing and maintains the housing flange to axle flange face measurement. Unfortunately, early 9" housings did NOT have 2-1/4 to 2-1/2" to begin with. A call or website visit to Strange, Mosier, Currie, or many others would explain this better and in greater length. So....saving the 28 spline OEM axles might not be practical. The wheels, tires, and disc brake kit need to be selected and then cut the rear to satisfy all the custom components.
Sooo...if the rear is narrowed 3/4", the SVO disc brake caliper support adds 1/4" and the rotor adds and 1/8-1/4" so the tire has moved only 1/4-3/8" closer to the frame on both sides. The axle will only need to be 1/2" shorter per side.
Since housing narrowing is expensive, I would lean toward narrowing a little too much than not enough. Wheel spacers are cheap!!!!!!!!!!
I have narrowed 9" housings. I have the jig to setup and weld ends on. I like the Explorer/SVO conversion kit. The next housing I do will be a later model 9" housing from pickup or van. Less rust, easier to find, and strong. I will use Early Big Bearing housing ends (not Late Big Bearing ends). Early Big Bearings and seals are cheaper and much less leak prone.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2015-09-23 16:11
Good question...I've been trying to figure that out myself. I was guessing that the big bearing/brake cars (wagons, ranchero's etc) had the bigger dia. 31 spline axels as the reason for the bigger bearings. But that is just a guess. Or..it could be trac-loc that has the larger of the two shaft sizes/spline counts
Pretty sure all 57 cars had 28 spline axles, not sure about the pickups.
Yes there are small bearing (2.83) housings with 31 spline axles.
Cobra-jet and Boss Mustangs came with them.
I have that setup in my 57, small bearing with 31 spline axles.
Yukon sells that specialty bearing if you go that route.
Randy
All 57's had 28 splines.
31 splines came out in 64 (some factory racers had them in 63).
The 31 spline small bearing set-up isn't recommended for heavy cars.
Truck and van housings are much stronger than 57-59's
Equi-loks came out in 59, Trac-loks in late 60's.
Ron.