Ran into a glitch today with Hagerty. Last week I had an agent out, he took pictures, we answered a bunch of questions, he gave me a quote of 420ish. I signed, gave him a check.Today he called and said Hagerty decided since my car was "totally modified", the premium would go up to 620. No increase in agreed value, just an increase in premium. Well that was enough to push a few buttons for me, so I did some on line checking. Alot of the Hamb guys were going with Grundy, so I checked with them online. Did a "quick quote" and they priced it at 327. Basically the same coverage as Hagerty's except I've only got a 100. deductible with Grundy vs. a 500 with Hagerty! I did the long application answering all their questions, and it did not change the quote. Needless to say I called the Haggerty agent and told them to hold on everything, including the check, that if my application was accepted as is by Grundy, I'd be going with them.
Rich, I'd like to know how Grundy worked out for you, as I am in the shopping mode myself. Did you go through their website or a local agent?
I just did it this afternoon online. www.grundy.com
You have to print off the application and mail them the signed hard copies with a check. I though I was good to go with Hagerty until they called today upping the premium. We'll see what happens when Grundy gets the paperwork, hopefully they won't want to change things.
Rich I am curious if there are limitations on the use of your vehicle. I have heard horror stories that guys aren't covered if any damage occurs if you are not participating in certain activities. Will you be covered if you go to the grocery store in your 57?
I insured my 57 with a company called J.C.Taylor Antique Automobile Agency. Inc. ( www.JCTaylor.com) Have full coverage with towing and road service included. Cost me $162.00 per year. Although my car is not considered modified.
I used Grundy for twelve years on my 1932 Ford Roadster. It had full coverage for about a $400/year premium was set for $60K total value. Never a claim, they kept raising the declared value every few years. I had no problems with this company, and would use them again.
I used AAA for an agreed value collector car policy this time when I bought the '57. It was just easier, because AAA writes all of my daily driver vehicles. It was easy to establish the agreed value, as they had a Ranch Wagon in their collector vehicle computer system and my requested value was in their mid-value range for a restored car. It's about $350/year, if my memory is working.
Hagerty is a PITA, expensive, and restrictive.
Most carriers limit you to 2500 miles per year. No driving to work or school.
Must have a later model daily driver.
J.C.Taylor is good, so is Condon & Skelly.
Most of the co.'s lean toward stock vehicles more than modified ones.
Goodluck,
Ron.
Quote from: 57redwhitered on 2015-09-28 21:27
Rich I am curious if there are limitations on the use of your vehicle. I have heard horror stories that guys aren't covered if any damage occurs if you are not participating in certain activities. Will you be covered if you go to the grocery store in your 57?
I have had Agreed Value policies from Grundy, and AAA. They want the insured collector vehicle to be documented as not your daily driver vehicle. Basically you need to prove to them that you have something else (car/truck/or a motorcycle) that's insured to be your daily driver vehicle. You need to prove to them that the collector car is stored "inside" a lockable garage when it's parked at home. I have never heard that they disallowed a claim because you drove it to get gas, and stopped at the hardware store on the way home. I agree, it's a grey area, and they do discourage it. If you don't drive it every couple of weeks, the seals are all going to leak, so what are you to do, you must drive it some.
The statement I signed included an estimated 7500 miles per year (my estimate), and included the following (their words, not mine):
"My vehicles will be used on a limited basis consistent with the operation of a collectible vehicle such as occasional pleasure drives and club/hobby activities"
It also included a statement saying "the car would not be used frequently for regular driving such as transportation to/from school or work, and running of errands,....."etc.
I also had to show that both drivers had vehicles available and insured for their daily drivers.
As far as the miles per year, that is set by the insured and premiumed accordingly.
I have had coverage from Hagerty in the past and found their premiums to be too high, so I moved to Grundy. I have three cars insured with them and never an issue.
The most important thing to confirm when shopping for collector car insurance, is the coverage STATED or AGREED? The difference is staggering!
If someone would like me to define the two, I will. Just let me know.
John
Please do. I'm assuming "stated" is the value input from the insured, and not necessarily agreed upon by the Insurance Co.??
The Grundy is "agreed", btw.
Bear with me on my example, it's an "actual case example" of why you want to make the correct type of insurance policy choices, and not just assume you are buying what you think you are purchasing.
A customer restored a 1954 vintage travel trailer. They wanted insurance for their "sizeable" time and materials investment. They went to their insurance company, and with the help of their agent, they both agreed in placing a $20,000 replacement value would be appropriate to cover their potential loss. The policy was written, and the company received the premium.
As they say in the Insurance Industry, "Life Happened" when they fell asleep towing their trailer and totaled their truck, and heavily damaged their "restored" trailer. The estimate to rebuild the trailer was $10K. The insurance adjuster, and his insurance companies position was the trailer was "over insured", (How could a 1954 trailer be worth $20K?) and they refused to pay the $10K repair estimate. The basic problem in this actual case, was the policy purchased was a STATED VALUE policy, but the policy was no different from what you have on any of your late model daily driver's. It's a policy that has depreciation of value as the vehicle becomes older. It's not what you want to cover your vintage vehicle, that will continue to have more parts, and $$$ added to it as you own it.
In my experience, not very many insurance agents understand the basic difference in the two types of policies, and they tend to "interchange" the two names in conversation.
Buyer beware!
Quote from: John Palmer on 2015-09-29 10:36
Bear with me on my example, it's an "actual case example" of why you want to make the correct type of insurance policy choices, and not just assume you are buying what you think you are purchasing.
A customer restored a 1954 vintage travel trailer. They wanted insurance for their "sizeable" time and materials investment. They went to their insurance company, and with the help of their agent, they both agreed in placing a $20,000 replacement value would be appropriate to cover their potential loss. The policy was written, and the company received the premium.
As they say in the Insurance Industry, "Life Happened" when they fell asleep towing their trailer and totaled their truck, and heavily damaged their "restored" trailer. The estimate to rebuild the trailer was $10K. The insurance adjuster, and his insurance companies position was the trailer was "over insured", (How could a 1954 trailer be worth $20K?) and they refused to pay the $10K repair estimate. The basic problem in this actual case, was the policy purchased was a STATED VALUE policy, but the policy was no different from what you have on any of your late model daily driver's. It's a policy that has depreciation of value as the vehicle becomes older. It's not what you want to cover your vintage vehicle, that will continue to have more parts, and $$$ added to it as you own it.
In my experience, not very many insurance agents understand the basic difference in the two types of policies, and they tend to "interchange" the two names in conversation.
Buyer beware!
I totally agree with John, that many insurance agents interchange the two terms, and do not know the differences.
Stated Value Insurance:
You state the value that you want the insurance company to insure your vehicle for, they in turn calculate a premium based on that stated value. You pay it year after year. Then you have a loss. For the sake of this example, we'll say that the vehicle was insured for $25,000.00 and was a total loss. Here comes the hook. The adjuster reviews the vehicle and says yep it is totaled, but in the view of the insurance company it is not worth the $25,000.00 the insured is expecting. How can this be you ask? Some where in that policy are the letters ACV, or Actual Cash Value. That is the hook. Yes you paid the premium for years based on the $25,000.00 value that you stated. But the insurance company never agreed it was worth $25,000.00. Their position is that you must prove it to them. You might be successful, then again you might not be successful convincing them it has a real market value of $25,000.00. The real kicker, in my opinion, is that you paid the premium, based on your stated value, for years, maybe decades. When you incur the loss and they pay you less than your stated value, they do not refund any of those years of premium dollars that you paid, in reality, over paid the insurance company.If you have this type of Insurance Coverage, you need to document every aspect of your car with photos.
Agreed Value Insurance:
Its name says it all. You AND the insurance company AGREE on a value of the vehicle. The premium is calculated based on that agreed value. Again, we'll assume the agreed value is $25,000. Same scenario, car is totaled. With Agreed insurance, the owner collects the full $25,000.00. Another scenario, for arguments sake we'll say it was damaged to the tune of $15,000.00. The insurance company will pay UP TO $25,000.00 to repair your car. So the $15,000.00 repair is not a problem There are no arguments in either of these two scenarios, regarding Agreed Insurance ,about what will be paid as both parties AGREED to the value. I'll go a little further on this subject. Let's say the real value of the vehicle is $50,000.00 but the owner decides to only insure it for the Agreed $25,000.00, for whatever reason or reasons. Total loss he gets $25,000.00. Damaged but not a total, the insurance will pay up to $25,000.00 to repair it , but no more. Why, because that is what they agreed to do.Conversely, if the car is worth $25,000.00 and it is insured for $15,000.00, then , $15,000.00 is all that the insurance company will pay on a total, and up to $15,000.00 to repair it, assuming it is not a total.
IF, you insure your Collector Cars, or whatever you call them, with your every day , daily driver insurance carrier, I'd suggest you look the policy over carefully. Chances are very good that you have stated value insurance, as most every day driver insurance carriers do not write collector car insurance.
Ever wondered why collector car insurance is cheaper than your everyday driver car insurance? Collector car insurance is a good "bet" for both parties. The insurance company knows that the majority of these cars are not driven much, not driven in snow, not driven in rain. Garaged. They represent a lot of time and labor by the owners, thus they are driven more carefully, AND, the insurance company only charges the liability once, regardless of the number of collector cars that you own, that they insure. They figure you can only drive one at a time.
I am not in any way involved in the Insurance business. I've researched this topic thoroughly , and have given a short comparison of the two basic types of Collector Car Insurance. I've never had a claim, but have friends that have, both Agreed and Stated losses. And they were handled just as I've outlined above. One friend was disappointed, one was extremely happy.
My first hand experience with total loss claims was in 2007 when I handled 3 total claims in one year, on every day driver cars. The high light of those "discussions" with the insurance company was that the female adjuster that handled one of these cars was not sharp enough to recognize the car as being a convertible with a re-moveable hard top, that was in place, as it was in November. To this day , the insurance company does not know if , in fact, there was or wasn't a soft top on that car, which naturally would have greatly altered the settlement price, if it was not there.
John
i have hagerty insurance, for the last 25 years. have had no problems, but, and hope it dosen't happen, a accident, i will say i have had windshields replaced with no problems, at one time i did check out Grundy, and altho its a lot cheaper, i stayed with Hagerty, they have upped my coverage, but i sayed what i wanted and left it at that, so until something happens i can't really give a opinion on who is the best, just my 2 cents, jerry
I tried getting Hagrety when I was first insuring my car. They told me no since I drive it when ever I want and they are basically a "show car" insurance company. I was floored by that since they advertise all over the car show tv programs.
So I just called my State Farm guy and got a pay off policy of $8,000. Which for now is a hair above cars worth. I can raise it when I do more. But they wont repair. $12 a month.
Quote from: sprink88 on 2015-10-03 09:33
I tried getting Hagrety when I was first insuring my car. They told me no since I drive it when ever I want and they are basically a "show car" insurance company. I was floored by that since they advertise all over the car show tv programs.
So I just called my State Farm guy and got a pay off policy of $8,000. Which for now is a hair above cars worth. I can raise it when I do more. But they wont repair. $12 a month.
It sounds like you purchased a Stated Value (aka Actual Cash Value) policy. You will be very disappointed if you ever have the need to make a serious claim. An Agreed Value policy with the amount of $10K, could not be more than $150/year, or about what you now paying.
The key to obtaining an "vintage vehicle" Agreed Value policy is the vehicle must be secured in a lockable garage when parked at your house, and you have to show other "insured late model" vehicles that can be used as daily drivers. You can still drive your vintage vehicle "whenever you want".
why would I be dissapointed? I keep checking "replacement" cars, and what I can buy if something should happen to mine. Right now I am comfortable with a $8000 57 Ford replacement. I drive drivers. I dont want anything to do with show cars. \
Or am I missing something?
I think what they are saying, Chris, is YOU stated the value was 8K, and you may find out in the case of an accident or theft that they think it was worth less and will pay accordingly.... and it won't matter that you paid a premium based on that 8K value.
I should check it out. I have asked them multiple times on it when I was signing up. They said payout would be the amount. But I don't trust any ins company at all.
Hi Guys,
Thought I would chime in on this topic. I'm with Infinity Classic & Collectors Car Ins. Co. I have an agreed value of 75K with full coverage, 2,500 miles per year limit and I do keep in garaged. Runs me $441.00 per year. I only rack up around 800 miles per year going to shows and car hops. My biggest concern is now that the DMV here in California is passing out drivers licenses to illegals that are most likely NOT to be insured and still drive like they own the streets and have no respect for you and your classic car, I must be extra cautious when I'm out in my 57. I'm very happy with Infinity over the other Ins. Co's that I have had in the past.
As some of you may know and have been following Bob Lee's thread here, his car is still in the car hospital, he too is insured by the same company and is very happy with them.
Rick
57 Tudor
:unitedstates:
Quote from: sprink88 on 2015-10-03 19:24
I should check it out. I have asked them multiple times on it when I was signing up. They said payout would be the amount. But I don't trust any ins company at all.
Chris, I would agree that this topic is very confusing, but it's also very important to fully understand how the insurance company will adjust your claim with a Stated Value (aka ACV) policy. The value amount you originally stated, and the premium you are now paying will have no bearing in the amount they will reimburse if you experience a total loss. I would like to think that the insurance agents are not "knowingly" lying, but they do not fully understand the different kinds of policies, and when the different policies are best applied for their customer.
The insurance company will find "in their opinion" a like replacement vehicle listed on CL or eBay for say $1500, and that will be the amount on their settlement check. The entire process will fall on your shoulders to find "your supporting documentation" as to why your vehicle should have a higher than a $1500 value because it was not completely rusted out like their CL example. It's a nightmare that can be completely avoided if you choose to buy an Agreed Value policy. The argument over value is then done "up front" (with an appraisal), and you will not have any costly surprises.
This is the reason that many older (not classic/vintage) daily driver vehicles just insure with liability and property damage. They drop the comp portion because the vehicle value drops to about two years worth of insurance premiums.
Chris, John Palmer has said it very well. At the end of the day...........you stated the value, but the insurance company didn't agree to it. The only thing they agreed to do was take your premium based on your valuation. Like I stated earlier...... if your policy says ACV or Actual Cash Value.........you are guaranteed to have problem if you make a claim expecting to be covered up to the $8000.00 you stated. It is just the way it works..........I didn't say it was fair. Another aspect of the stated value insurance that I find extremely irritating is that the willingly take your premium dollars based on your stated value, but will not refund any of the premium dollars if they pay out less than that stated amount. Get an agreed value policy and you'll sleep better.
John
i have to add my 2 cents worth. i just called Hagerty insurance, if my car was totaled, whats it worth, she said, what i have it insured for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, and 2nd, can i go for a ride when i feel like it, no shows to go to etc, just a plain ride, she said, of course,. so maybe i pay a little more, seems like its worth it to me, i pay around 6 a year, and i have extra special towing svc, which i can get a tow for up to 125 miles and also use it on my other cars, like i said , just my 2 cents worth. jerry
I have had J.C. Taylor since about 1990 on my 65 Mustang , when I got my 57 I added it on. I don't have the invoice in front of me right now but it is approx. $150. each per year for $15k each ,it includes towing. I am required to keep in a lockable garage and not use as a daily driver. I had a claim on the Mustang once when a tree limb fell on it. I was satisfied with the settlement I got to repair it. So I am staying with them.
Barry