This is the axle that came in my Ranch Wagon. measures 57-1/2" axle to axle. it has 3.25 gears.
Somehow I think that this is not a 57 axle or at least not the differential carrier/third member. can anybody confirm that ? pinion cover has a 8ZC casting number, is that a 1958 ?
Reason I am asking, want to order a new pinion seal and also need to know if 57 wagon wheel bearing seals will fit this axle.
That is a 9" axle, but the pinion carrier looks too small to be a '57. Can't comment on the rest.
I will look at mine tomorrow, but I am sure you will have an answer by then. 57 1/2" sounds right off the top of my head.
looks like it does not have the big pinion seal they used in 57 only. what size are the backing plate bolts? if they are 3/8 [9/16 socket] it is a small bearing housing.if they are 1/2 inch [3/4 socket] it is a big bearing housing. the wagon came with the big bearing housing
The bolts are 1/2" with 3/4 nuts. obviously is a wagon rear and I am pleased to hear that I already have the correct axle seals.
still wondering about the pinion.
Guenter
I'm Glad that you have the wagon rear end. Now, hopefully someone on the site has the number of the seal.
Do you know that it has a crush washer inside and that the nut has to be put on to the exact spot where it is now? I usually make a punch mark on the nut and one on the housing and count the turns to take the nut off. After installing the seal, turn the nut on the exact same amount of turns and line up the punch marks. Hopefully, one of our kind members will give us the number , I'll get the pinion seal for you and put it in
Josef's car, or send it by mail. Will try to call today at about 3:00 Mass. time if you are home. While we are at it, give us the make and numbers of the new axle seals that you do have so we can check to make sure that they are correct. Gotta go and get ready for church. Jay
Agreed, that is not a 57 third member. If I recall the original 57 large pinion seal was made from some kind of leather not rubber. I can post a picture of a 57 third member vs later if you need it. Some 57's also had a different pinion flange for a mechanics type U joint.
Guenter
Now that Jim says that it's not a 57 third member.
I think that we need a picture of the back face of that rear end. Is it smooth or does it have a high spot for the ring gear? JA
Quote from: Ecode70D on 2016-04-10 11:45
Guenter
Now that Jim says that it's not a 57 third member.
I think that we need a picture of the back face of that rear end. Is it smooth or does it have a high spot for the ring gear? JA
Jay, what year did they start using the the one with the high spot for the ring? I've never owned on that new :003:
Jim
I'm not sure also to when they came out with the high spot for the ring. One thing for sure is that the 57 smooth ones sure do look nice from the back. Someone is going to know for sure because this is the place to go for Ford answers even if it is not 57. Jay
Quote from: Ecode70D on 2016-04-10 14:28
Jim
I'm not sure also to when they came out with the high spot for the ring. One thing for sure is that the 57 smooth ones sure do look nice from the back. Someone is going to know for sure because this is the place to go for Ford answers even if it is not 57. Jay
Thanks Jay. Has the snow melted away yet? How is the roof?
Thanx everybody for their input, Jay and Jim, yes my axle has the smooth 'pumpkin'. I will have to look through my spare parts to see the numbers. will be out of town for 2 days, but will come back here asap. It seems that my differential carrier is post 57.
Guenter, your carrier is not as "beefy" as the one I in my car which is the original rear end. It was ordered with a 3.89 ratio which may make it a different? ...My carrier has an extra vertical rib. According to the internet "humped" rear plates were post '66.
http://www.kevinstang.com/Ninecase.htm
Here is the original 57 ( left-red ) large carrier and seal with 3.89 gears from my Ranchero. The other is a later model with the small carrier and seal. I'm using the later model one I put new gears, bearings etc in the 57 now. The weak point on 9" rears is the rear pinion gear bearing area casting ( closes to the ring gear ) that where the casting cracks in hipo use.
Looked at the parts book, duh. There are two carriers listed for '57s C0AZ 4141-A and C2AZ 4141-B. The latter has large carrier bearings. There is only one pinion seal listed for '57's: 1 13/16" ID x 4 1/8" OD x 21/32" thick, PN B7A 4676-A.
It would seem you have the C0AZ while I have the C2AZ, carriers being dictated by R&P ratio.
Quote from: lalessi1 on 2016-04-11 10:21
Looked at the parts book, duh. There are two carriers listed for '57s C0AZ 4141-A and C2AZ 4141-B. The latter has large carrier bearings. There is only one pinion seal listed for '57's: 1 13/16" ID x 4 1/8" OD x 21/32" thick, PN B7A 4676-A.
It would seem you have the C0AZ while I have the C2AZ, carriers being dictated by R&P ratio.
I don't know what bearings my original had, it had the 3.89 RP. I only cleaned it up, replaced the seal and ran it for a year before building another one. I think the new rear I'm using had the smaller bearings, I still have those and will have to look.
The pics that Jim posted.....mine looked like the unpainted one on the right, and I believe it to be oem to the car.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2016-04-11 10:57
The pics that Jim posted.....mine looked like the unpainted one on the right, and I believe it to be oem to the car.
I have no date when the rear design changed so possibly the 58 third members ended up in some late production 57's?????
I think they coexisted because of geometry and loads originally and continued for a while... note the "C0" and "C2" parts dating for the replacements in the parts book. The "book" I have are CD copies of printed material published in the early '60s. I think there were simply 2 different carriers for a time.
Quote from: lalessi1 on 2016-04-11 18:15
I think they coexisted because of geometry and loads originally and continued for a while... note the "C0" and "C2" parts dating for the replacements in the parts book. The "book" I have are CD copies of printed material published in the early '60s. I think there were simply 2 different carriers for a time.
It gets very confusing, I don't have a parts book but didn't you say they only listed the large seal for both? On top of it all Ford was notorious for changing part numbers through the years. Talk to any one who worked as a parts man and they probably don't have any hair :003:
Round back (first generation) were used through '64 and maybe beyond. The '57 housing has a drain plug in the bottom...'64 did not.
Quote from: gasman826 on 2016-04-11 18:49
Round back (first generation) were used through '64 and maybe beyond. The '57 housing has a drain plug in the bottom...'64 did not.
Fill locations changed over the years too. I made that mistake one time, put a later third member in a 57 that didn't have a fill plug on the third member. I had to pull and axle and pour the lube down the axle tube :005: :003:
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2016-04-11 18:40
It gets very confusing, I don't have a parts book but didn't you say they only listed the large seal for both? On top of it all Ford was notorious for changing part numbers through the years. Talk to any one who worked as a parts man and they probably don't have any hair :003:
Well I still have (some) hair!!! My brother has been a parts man his whole life, and he doesn't!! I am confused as a rule...I wouldn't bet much on my "reading" of the parts book...but I stand by my interpretation of the pixels I have access too...This is FUN! :003:
I'm glad you still have some hair :003: All I know for sure is the three Customs and three Rancheros I've owned all had the large 57 type carrier and seal. I also looked at my friends wagon today when we went to lunch and it's the same too, he also has a Ranchero and said it was the same also..
This brings me to another question. Why did they change the design after just one year? What was the problem?
These are my thoughts (BUT it is happy hour here).... My reading of the "book" is that there is only one seal? There are two carriers (not housings) and they are different because of the teeth interface and dimensional/load concerns? (Just a WAG). This makes sense to me now but who knows... works for me... :003:
I am thinking the "beefed up" carriers failed because they had lower R&P sets used for drag racing so Ford went to nodular iron.
I actually wish we could hang out and kick this around in person...
If I knew how I would try to post the "book" pages here for opinions.
Not at all confident at this point, BUT HAPPY.
When Guenter gets back to read his post with all the info provided he should be as confused as the rest of us :003:
So back to my thinking if there is only the one seal listed that means all 57 had the large carrier housing and seal. Then in 58 they changed to the smaller one. All the info I have ever read on 9" rears never covers anything on the 57 design that I can find.
Wow.... what, huh ???
That's a lot more information than I was asking for....hahaha....
Thanx to Jim's pics I can now exclude the big pinion seal for the 57 as my carrier looks totally different. according to the '8' casting numbers it most probably is a 58 or 59 model unit. My axle housing has the drain plug though, which is a hint that it could be the original 57 wagon axle housing with big wheel bearings.
drain plug
Still puzzling. We don't know if someone changed it over the years or if Ford did it towards the end of the production???
Retracts, Wgns, Rancheros and SD's all had the big axle and carrier bearings regardless of gear ratio. The rest used small bearings.
All 57's used the 4" pinion seal.
3.25 ratio was not available in 57.
All 57's used 28 spline axles.
Ron.
Ron, when I will be pulling the axles for seal replacement I will count the splines.