Is there any documentation of where the factory overspray was on the underside of floor pan? My father's car had been undercoated early in life and the only remaining overspray was on the right side of spare tire well. If this doesn't exist does anyone have unrestored car that still has the overspray showing that would be willing to document.
I am probably within a few weeks from applying the final paint to underside and body and would like to get the overspray correct.
Thanks,
Randy
What year and model are we talking about?
Sorry, 1957 Custom 70A built at Dearborn January 1957.
I have had 4 57 Fords, 2 Fairlanes 500 63A built at Somerville , MA , a Convertible built at Marwar, NJ and a custom 300 built at Chester, PA all had the underside painted the same color as the upper body, I do not remember seeing overspray on any of them. (The convertible and the Custom 300 were solid color cars, the 63As were tutone.)
The underside of floor from factory was black and the body was red solid color. Is it unusual for floor to be body color or unusual to be black? I have also seen some restored with red oxide on bottom of floor.
Randy
I have a 57-63A hard top, I had a couple 57donor cars and all of them were painted white underneath. Each of them had black undercoating and when it was removed all white. One came factory all black the other was two tone brown and white. The brown and white was all original, the black one had been repainted and could have had under coating added. I had a black one with a Mexico data plate and vin number, it was white underneath but covered with undercoating. That one had orange painted floors that had been covered with a tar coating. The orange was inside the passenger area but not in the trunk. When I stripped the floors for patch panels the orange was direct to metal. All three had white paint beneath the whole underbody.
The bottom side of everything I have or have cut up was semi-gloss root bear color. All the cars had sound deadener sprayed on the bottom after the car was assembled. After scraping off the sound deadener, I have found minimal top coat over spray...not enough to establish a pattern. After the sound deadener was sprayed, none of the over spray would have shown.
I guess that raises the question as to what sound deadener was applied before painting and what was after. Everything I found in doors, quarters, trunk lid, were all painted over with body color. The brush on seam sealer on floor supports was bare metal underneath. Was the floor sound deadener and what else put on after paint?
Randy
QuoteWas the floor sound deadener and what else put on after paint?
I think so, yes. typically when you remove the under floor coating, you'll get to the red oxide primer that many others mentioned. at least that's what's on my 57 wagons.
it seems as if most all of the body sound deadener and seam sealer was applied before paint though. also on the firewall. On most og paint cars you can see that the whole seam across the firewall below the wiper motor is surface rusted, as to when the old sealer cracked, came loose and there was bare metal underneath. much the same as on floorboards, trunk floors and also in the wagons' spare wheel compartment. whenever you remove sealer, there's bare metal or surface rust under it. just
not on the underside of floorboards.
Definetly one of those areas where you do not want to copy what Ford did exactly. If you want to preserve your car for as long as possible, at minimum, epoxy prime your bare metal before applying any body seam filler and sealers. On mine, I por-15'd everything not finished with appearance top coats.
As Pat Fleishman said in that great thread he did on sealers, if Ford had done it that way, we'd have alot more of them still on the road.
JMHO, but this is one of those 'WHAT TO DO?" areas you come across when attempting a factory correct restoration.
And, mine was like DJ's underneath the 50 years of road crap...red oxide, as was the '58 donor car I got my floorpans from.
x2 Rich !
I would never recommend using old type of tarmac seam sealer on bare metal. Back then Ford was building a car to last for 5 or 10 years. They never intended to have them still running 60, yes S I X T Y years later.
If I was restoring the underside of a 57 today, In addition to the red oxyde ( Epoxy) primer I would also use a second layer of semiflat industrial epoxy paint of the same color, as this will seal much better than primer/filler. a single layer of primer will always catch moisture.
I laid on my back for days scraping that underbody coating and there was no paint, just the red primer. After I got the underbody coating off, I painted the underside of the floors and did not apply
more undercoating.
Thanks for all of the information. When I scraped off all of the undercoating it had black paint underneath. The plan is: first coat underneath is epoxy primer followed by a high build primer where needed. The 2K seam sealer will be next followed by epoxy sealer and finally black top coat. As I am trying to do this to look like factory I wanted to get the overspray pattern correct but the car was undercoated at some point. With everyone's input here it looks like I will keep with this plan and apply any sound deadener underneath after top coat. I did find some red overspray on the spare tire well so I will apply that.
I am missing anything?
Randy
Can't get any more thorough than that, lol.
Several things.....I wouldn't think high build primer over the epoxy is necessary, just a regular surface primer would be fine. High build may not even be desirable due to chipping and other factors. (High build is great for large flat expanses...can be an issue in corners due to shrinkage.....lots of corners and pockets, etc on the underside.)
Watch your time windows, be prepared, and you can save a ton of work by not having to sand/scuff previous coats. tech sheets from the paint supplier can give all the pertenant info on time windows.
With sealers underneath, remember cars have to drain to let water out that finds it's way in, and it will.
This is all probably stuff you already know.
I went a different route on mine, just as thorough, but definetly not oem.
My wagon was built in San Jose California , it had black paint under the under coating.
Seems like they didn't follow and specific protocol .
My 57 was originally white / blue. When I got the car home and put it up on jacks, I took soap , water and scrub brush. There wasn't any undercoat on it, just 60 years of grime .
I saw a hint of blue so scrubbed it all down and it looked intentional from the factory to paint the bottom blue.
I undercoated all except purposely left the driveshaft tunnel untouched so if someone ever wanted to see the OE blue.
This may be a case of different assembly plants used different methods?
would someone explain to me, whats this over spray being talked about is?, never heard it before, thanks jerry
I think what is being asked is what is the paint sequence from the factory... As the color coat is applied to a factory '57 the unseen/underneath parts of the car not masked off so some color is oversprayed in various areas of the body. Some folks to be 100% accurate in a restoration will try to replicate all of these patterns and the order of application. Some manufactures will paint the underside/unseen areas of the car the body color, others leave those areas red oxide or black primer.
Jerry...it's along the same lines as having firewall production marks replicated, oem hose markings, oem looking battery, etc etc. The kind of stuff judges award/remove points for in a concourse type show. Knowing what sequence the car was assembled and finished (undercoating, etc.) would be a strong indication of when/where there maybe would be overspray.
You are all correct, trying to do this car as factory correct as I can. The problem is that Ford was not at all consistent, from the responses we have red oxide, black, white, and body color underneath and now a new variable, was sound deadener put on underside of floor of all cars or not this in addition to iwhat order were they applied.
Not all cars had undercoating for sure....mine did not.
What I don't know is HOW they were sprayed.....manually, or were they using spraying machines not unlike the robotic stuff they use nowadays. Obviously if they were sprayed manually, a flick of the wrist could change overspray patterns from one car to the next.
All the pictures and video I seen shows the painted body lowered onto the frame. All my '57s had the under sound deadening sprayed on after the car was assembled. Very little was sprayed on the tunnel (missing the drive shaft) but not missing the frame, cross member, and a little on inner fenders and suspension parts. I've never seen overspray on top of the bottom sound deadening. If there was OEM overspray on the bottom sound deadening, it likely came from a spot repair due to a oops at the factory or during shipping.
Thanks to everyone, it looks like the consensus is that there wasn't body paint overspray on sound deadener on bottom side of floor, probably due to the order of application. Ford certainly didn't do any masking so there had to be overspray some where but it must have been covered by the sound deadener.
Does anyone know for sure the factory sprayed the under coating or was it a dealer done option, I know some other makes of cars were done at dealers. I think they avoided the tunnel area to keep it off the driveshaft, anything on the drive shaft would throw it out of balance. I've seen that done by private shops that don't know better..
Seems to me I remember undercoating was applied by the dealer or an aftermarket supplier at least around here. I remember avoiding cars with it, it was a PITA. Undercoating may have been a factory option? My memory can be a fetal fickle thing though ..... Ziebart?????
I was a grease monkey/ reconditioner/ new car prep/snow shoveler, you name it at a Cadillac Oldsmobile dealer in the early 60s. No GM cars were factory under coated. We used a very nice copper colored product from Cadillac. Masked the driveshafts and tried to avoid exhaust system and transmission. Needless to say coverage was inconsistent with poor coverage in hard to access areas. Undercarriage overspray is very important in Tri Five Chevrolet. judging. I don't think Ford people are quite as fanatical.
The Trim&Sealer manual that Jim Osbourne Reproductions sells has a drawing that shows sound deadener was applied to maybe half of the floor and the entire rear wheel wells. I was considering using that as guide for this car.
all 3 57s I own .all have red oxide on the under side..... As for any overspray.. none..all my cars were made in the Dallas Plant..... none had any factory undercoating.
Quote from: Jeff Norwell on 2017-01-19 13:38
all 3 57s I own .all have red oxide on the under side..... As for any overspray.. none..all my cars were made in the Dallas Plant..... none had any factory undercoating.
Are you saying Texans shoot straighter :003: :burnout:
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2017-01-19 17:35
Are you saying Texans shoot straighter :003: :burnout:
I take the 5th Jim.... hahahah