I took these seat belt brackets out of a donor 57 Ford parts car that I had a few years ago. After I clean up and refurbish them, I want to install them in my 57 Ford. The question is How do I attach seat belts to these brackets? It seems like in the old days, the ends of the belts got wrapped around the brackets and woven through some sort of a flat plate with slots in it.
I know that I can just drill holes in the floor and bolt seat belts through them, but that's not what I want to do. Any and all help would be appreciated. Thanks Jay
Jay, I think they used this type of attachment on the end of the belt.
After I installed my brackets I just ordered longer belts than I needed, cut the ends off and heated the nylon until it melted and smoothed it out. I used the flat plates as the original configuration did. The question I would have is " why go to the expense and trouble to use original brackets if you didn't plan on using the original belt mounting.
Jim, I read his question as he wanting to do an oem mounting/assembly and is looking for info on how that was done.
Quote from: RICH MUISE on 2018-10-29 10:01
Jim, I read his question as he wanting to do an oem mounting/assembly and is looking for info on how that was done.
OK, I thought the question was how to attach the seat belts to the original type brackets? I'm on my way to my father-in-laws funeral and maybe not thinking straight.
Isn't that what I said, lol? maybe not. I think he want to use the original brackets and attach the belting in the original manner.
Sorry about your father in law, Jim. My condolences to you and your wife.
Jim
I intend to use the original floor mounting brackets that I have. I will order longer belts like you stated and that's a good idea of cutting the end pieces off and using heat to melt the ends together instead of stitching them. That brings me back to the question about the plates. I don't remember what they look like or where to get some. I will need 4 of them , or if I had just one of them. I would try to make a set . Did you take a picture of yours before you installed them ?
Thanks Jay
If you need a template for the front seat brackets, let me know. I can mail you a copy. Also, the tunnel brackets don't fit on a convertible, The backings just don't fit under the tunnel. The original belts used a chrome buckle to hold them in place. I see them on e-bay every once and a while. The crazy Iowa guy has a set up for $450.
Jay, if I read Jim's post correctly, he used the heat on the ends to keep the fabric from fraying, not as a replacement for the sewing. Much like I do when I cut plastic or neoprene rope.....melt the ends with a cigarette lighter.
What I'm thinking about typing that, is the late model cars that are sewn together after the belt passes thru the loop.
Ray
I had no idea that the that the tunnel brackets could not be used on a convertible.
I would very much like to have a template of the front seat belt brackets. I will send you a PM with my contact information. If you actually have one of those plates , would you please give me all the measurements just in case I am not able to find a set and have t o make them.
Thank you very much. Jay
Here is a drawing of what I'm talking about. I couldn't find a picture of one on ebay. I guess they aren't as plentiful as I thought. They are thick chrome plated steel. You just thread the belt thru the slots one way, loop the belt into the floor mounted brackets and back thru this bracket. A belt with sewed ends will be a tight fit and the sewed end really isn't nessecary.
Jim, when you drew the picture it reminded me of the Simpson Racing harness adjustment pieces we used to use, they are called 2" Wide 3 Bar Slides; they also come in 3"
(https://i.imgur.com/XXHQvI7.jpg)
Here's a link: https://www.amazon.com/RaceQuip-700085-Wide-Bar-Slide/dp/B004QMJ8SS
This is some of their other hardware that we used to use if it helps:
(https://i.imgur.com/GMRAW3C.jpg)
Jay this set is advertised on ebay as oem 56-63 FoMOCO eqpt.
obviously the ends have no loops or sewing whatsoever. indicating to what our knowledgable guys have stated above.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/tOIAAOSwSypY-NMN/s-l1600.jpg)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1956-1957-1958-1959-1960-1961-1963-Ford-Galaxie-Blue-Seat-Belts-OEM-FoMoCo/311846465791?epid=754646640&hash=item489b7f70ff:g:JnAAAOSwIWVY-N3L (https://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-1956-1957-1958-1959-1960-1961-1963-Ford-Galaxie-Blue-Seat-Belts-OEM-FoMoCo/311846465791?epid=754646640&hash=item489b7f70ff:g:JnAAAOSwIWVY-N3L)
1200.00 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And shipping not included. All ya can do is laugh.
WOW! Only $1200. What's happening? Are those people serious?
Jim Thank for the drawing. That's what I had in mind. It was not my imagination.
Joe Thanks for the link and now I know the proper name is Bar slides.
Hiball Jim The boys found the plates that I need. I'm very sorry to hear about your father in law.
Those are C0AZ belts 60-64. Although they will fit earlier cars the belt material is not correct for 57. The early belts were heavier and of a more course
texture.
Ron.
Yes The C0---codes is visible on the boxes. I was just posting this for reference of the open belt ends. And they are a bargain... :002:
The one picture of the seat belts with the end enclosed with a metal shield makes a nice finished product. I'd never seen that. When you guys get on a subject you pretty well leave no questions to be asked.
One thing I was going to add. I'm big and fat and I had to go to a different steering wheel with less dish and I modified my seat runners to go back 1" than original. As far as I'm concerned the seat belt for me would have no safety feature since the steering wheel is almost into my stomach now. And, as far as the $1200 price tag is concerned " it depends on how bad you want them". That's coming from a guy that spent $375 for a set of NOS drivers side floor brackets. And yes, I'd do it again. At a car show no one will notice those seat belt brackets but me. But, I'm the guy I've got to please.
the metal cap on the belt ends looks like folded metal. It looks as if it has some dimples on the inside which are possibly 'teeth', bent at 90 degrees which lock the metal in the belt. BTW, Jay, I am sure that this is something that you could easily fabricate from thin stainless or aluminium sheet metal and it would be a great winter project for the basement shop.
I can totally understand the point where somebody would like to have those rare accessory seat belt anchors or even a NOS set of belts. my mind crunches at the thought that you can get a good quality new set from Wesco at below $30, custom color, chromed aviation style buckle and all, while somebody would be willing to spend $1200 for the OEM set ? that is a lot of money. But they do look extremely good, that's for sure! I am also dedicated to factory stuff and have probably spent a fortune on NOS 57 parts myself.
I talked to Jay in a private mail about this but I want to inlcude it here, for the record. Maybe some of you would like to try aviation safety belts as well. they are wider and some have the coarse old texture.
my email to Jay
Quotewhat you could do Jay is look for military or aviation surplus. aviation belts must be replaced every 10 years or so by expiration date. there are many - like new- belts on the market, which have expired. I am talking about simple 2 point belts in a Cessna or private plane. They are made from the old thick and coarse material and they are wide. You should go ask Dick about that and I am sure he knows perfectly well where the old stuff gets sold off locally.
Many Hot rodders use expired aviation belts and they are often grey color. That would be a great idea for your application!
this is the stuff I am talking about. there are literally hundreds out there at a good price and with awesome texture and buckles.
$39 a pair, 1961
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/kMcAAOSw1zhaY3i-/s-l1600.jpg)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-1961-1962-Cessna-Tan-Seat-Lap-Belt-Belts-P-N-S-1060/192433178299?hash=item2ccde946bb:g:kMcAAOSw1zhaY3i-:rk:59:pf:0&vxp=mtr (https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Vintage-1961-1962-Cessna-Tan-Seat-Lap-Belt-Belts-P-N-S-1060/192433178299?hash=item2ccde946bb:g:kMcAAOSw1zhaY3i-:rk:59:pf:0&vxp=mtr)
Quote from: JimNolan on 2018-10-30 08:18
The one picture of the seat belts with the end enclosed with a metal shield makes a nice finished product. I'd never seen that. When you guys get on a subject you pretty well leave no questions to be asked.
One thing I was going to add. I'm big and fat and I had to go to a different steering wheel with less dish and I modified my seat runners to go back 1" than original. As far as I'm concerned the seat belt for me would have no safety feature since the steering wheel is almost into my stomach now. And, as far as the $1200 price tag is concerned " it depends on how bad you want them". That's coming from a guy that spent $375 for a set of NOS drivers side floor brackets. And yes, I'd do it again. At a car show no one will notice those seat belt brackets but me. But, I'm the guy I've got to please.
Jim, while lap belts won't keep you out of the steering wheel, they will keep you in the car. I remember the early days when people were thrown out.
Jim
I know full well what you are saying. Jay
Quote from: Ecode70D on 2018-10-30 13:52
Jim
I know full well what you are saying. Jay
Jay, I'm sure you saw more then your share of those results. Worst I saw was driving into the Grand Canyon and a Mercedes that ejected 6 people. No cell phones back then and had to drive 15-20 miles to a phone to call for help.
When I needed seatbelts for my 56 I found then at a local airport they were an exact match to the factory belts, i don't know if the 57 are the same but it might be worth a look.
Quote from: hiball3985 on 2018-10-30 14:11
Jay, I'm sure you saw more then your share of those results.
That's correct Jim.. I was assigned to the fatal accident section. My auto body skills really came in handy on accident reconstruction.
Lou... There is a small airport in the next town to me and it's only about a 10 minute drive. I'm going to drive over there and see what I can find for aviation lap belts. There has to be someone that has something . I never even gave this place much thought until Guenter all the way across the pond put the bug in my bonnet, and it is just around the corner.
Good thing is, that you even have an aviator friend at that local airport, who is also into vintage cars. I am sure these guys can point you in the right direction for the belts. If not, I am sure there are business and shops out there specializing in aviation surplus. and the www classifieds are full of it.
In my first Model A hot rod I had the rear passenger bench seat (riveted aluminium) and full lap belts out of a real Bell UH1 helicopter. thats the type they used in Vietnam.
come to think of it, I still have a spare of those belt assemblies, I guess. but WHERE ?....
Quote from: djfordmanjack on 2018-10-31 04:01
Good thing is, that you even have an aviator friend at that local airport, who is also into vintage cars. come to think of it, I still have a spare of those belt assemblies, I guess. but WHERE ?....
Guenter
Are you saying that you are starting to put things away and can't find them? Welcome to the club. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that our aviator friend has a few sets of seat belts in his collection of stuff. If they have to remove the seat belts periodically, you know that he wouldn't throw the old ones away. When we visited him, we were too busy looking at his cars and car parts and never concentrated on his planes. Seems like he had about 5 of them and two or three hangars. I'm going to call him today.
Jay I am not sure if the expiration date is mandatory in privately owned airframes (in the US). Sure is due on military and business planes.
I don't think seat belts had a date replacement. ELT, Radio equipment etc. were time sensitive though. Upholstery had to meet fireproof specifications. Never heard anything about seat belts on a private aircraft needing inspection.
Wow! A lot of money for '60 belts. I have a belt in the original box with B6A part number. I must be a millionaire now! The belt is blue and has the metal tips on the webbing. No hardware with it. Got it in a box of "stuff" at a closed Ford dealer's auction many years ago. John
Quote from: Hoosier Hurricane on 2018-11-01 06:53
Wow! A lot of money for '60 belts. I have a belt in the original box with B6A part number. I must be a millionaire now! The belt is blue and has the metal tips on the webbing. No hardware with it. Got it in a box of "stuff" at a closed Ford dealer's auction many years ago. John
Sorry.....You are only half of a millionaire.
E Code, it that is your bid for the belt, I'll have to consult with my wife and see if I should consider such a low ball offer. John
HAHA John
No I'm going have to pass on that and find the stuff that I can afford.
Jay