Has anyone installed one of the aftermarket EFI systems on a y-block? I am considering this. I've got a 292 w/2V carb, so I know I would have to get a 4V intake manifold. I had previously considered just installing a 4V carb, but doing the math on the airflow through the engine, I don't see that there is much improvement with a 4V carb.
I'm also considering installing a different transmission too. Perhaps a AOD or a C4. This car is certainly not a daily driver, but if the weather is dry, I do drive it quite a bit. The addition of PS and power front disk brakes has made it more enjoyable to drive. Any thoughts on a preferred transmission upgrade?
Rich
It would seem to me the EFI conversion is pretty basic, I am looking at the Holley because it will allow you to put in an advance "map" at some point although that is not necessary to get you going. For the tranny swap I would favor the AOD for the overdrive. Here is a swap story....
http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/277.cfm
If you optimize F/A ratio, ignition timing, and cut RPM I think you would really complete the "feel upgrade".
The guys on the Hamb are real high on the FITech systems. I'll see if I can find a link to a guy who has a dual fit efi on his '54
Here's the guy's thread on installing a borgenson box in his '54, go to the end and someone asks about his FIT setup
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/borgeson-power-steering-upgrade-for-my-1954-customline.1133990/#post-12908808
I think he had a thread going when he was setting up the system. I'll see what I can find, but generally speaking lot's of positive stuff about the FIT on the HAMB, considering it is an off topic subject for their main board. It's one of the nicest '52-54's you'll see, btw
Hey Rich, good to hear from you.
I've looked at a couple of videos of guys that have installed the Atomic unit (part No. 2900) and they have noted a few minor problems, but seemed to be doing well with it. It's $1,249 and the Fit unit is $1,190 for the EZEFI Master Kit P/N 30227-06KIT, w/ inline pump. I think they are equivalent units. I'll do more research before I buy, but I have also seen videos of the EZEFI kit where it too has a few problems.
Just to be sure, Is this the kit they are talking about? https://www.fuelairspark.com/fasttm-ez-efir-fuel-master-kit-inline-fuel-pump.html
I need a 4V intake manifold before I do anything. I believe the ECZ 9425 B is the one to look for.
You coming up for the Tri-State swap meet?
Rich
Hey guys, one of the EFI vendors is selling a 2bbl injector. Might be worth looking into to keep from having to purchase a 4bbl intake. I just do not remember which one it is but will look and post.
Holley has one...
https://www.jegs.com/i/Holley/510/550-849/10002/-1?CAWELAID=230006180040177132&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=44693592161&CATCI=aud-295441111667:pla-208650172631&CATARGETID=230006180039219898&cadevice=c&jegspromo=nonbrand&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7bm7_r_y3wIVnLrACh12CQoEEAQYBSABEgLXZvD_BwE
Quote from: Ford Blue blood on 2019-01-16 07:43
Hey guys, one of the EFI vendors is selling a 2bbl injector. Might be worth looking into to keep from having to purchase a 4bbl intake. I just do not remember which one it is but will look and post.
I had not considered that as everyone I've seen is for a quad. MSD, Holley, FAST, who else is selling these units? I'm not looking to make a drag car out of this, a 2V setup should be fine.
Hey, I found it. Is this what you are referring to? https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/sniper_efi/sniper_2300_2bbl/parts/550-849?gclid=CjwKCAiAyfvhBRBsEiwAe2t_i70kC2BuaOzvpIppWHKYYTvoDibJ8BKQEC-NPRHkPwx1zhgKXMZMwRoC9gEQAvD_BwE
Rich
That's it!
Rich, that link you posted is for the Fast system, Not the Fit (Fuel Injection Technology). Most of the guys have talked about a learning curve to get it to operate correctly, and I'm sure that's the situation with all of them. On the guy with the '54's link you can probably tell by the few pictures in that thread the guy is a fanatic on getting things right for his car, and he did say it took a whileto get the system functioning properly, but I think I also detected a comment about the system having a learning curve, similar to what us guys go thru with the learning curve on our factory fuel injection systems.
I'll see if I can find a link to what they were talking about.
Learn is usually associated with a 'self tuning' capability. FAST makes two systems. The FAST Easy has self tuning capability. It modifies it's lookup tables while the vehicle is being driven. The FAST XFI system is full blown race system where the lookup tables must be modified by the user. Most of the systems mentioned have some learn or self tuning capability. The OEM systems have a mild form of self tuning with a learn lookup table to enhance personal driving characteristics.
Rich,
I've done some more wandering around and it seems like the Holley kit is a pretty good one. Especially since they have a 2V unit, which is all that I need. I also plan to install a new HEI distributor. I'm trying to figure out if there is much of an advantage to having electronic control of the timing.
I do expect the system to "learn" somewhat, but I don't need to squeeze the last ounce of power out of the engine. I am looking to replace a tired carburetor and a worn distributor. For not much more than buying replacements, I believe I can do this system upgrade and get decent results.
Next upgrade would be an AOD transmission.
I appreciate everyone's comments. Very helpful.
Rich
Yes, controlling timing gives the system much more response and accurate air/fuel ratios over the entire RPM/load/throttle position. More drivability.
Quote from: Ford Blue blood on 2019-01-17 08:06
Yes, controlling timing gives the system much more response and accurate air/fuel ratios over the entire RPM/load/throttle position. More drivability.
MUCH MORE RESPONSE - If that's the case, I would likely go for the extra cost, but that does seem like a stretch to expect a big boost in performance. I do expect the EFI to improve driveablilty and some performance. I will need to make that decision early in the process as it will require a new distributor from Holley as well as their high energy control box and a special rotor for the distributor. That's about about $600 more than this unit.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-Y-Block-256-272-292-312-Small-HEI-Distributor-RED-Plug-Wires-60K-Coil/232933801038
There is also a potential issue with fitting the Holley distributor. They have a note that says it may interfere with a metal rib on the firewall. As I'm sure you know, the stock distributor is in a very tight location.
Anyway, I continue to research and think.
As always, I appreciate comments.
Rich
Personally I would hold off on the distributor until I installed the EFI. In my opinion having the maximum amount of ignition advance that the engine/fuel can tolerate under ALL operating conditions is the single most important parameter in operating efficiency/response. That said I think the EFI system does not need a new distributor to control timing, it just requires modifications to the system. Timing needs to vary with RPM and load so a "map" is what modern cars use for adjusting timing.
Lynn,
Thanks for the comments. I've pretty much decided to put in a new distributor regardless. The link below shows one that includes a high energy coil too, plus my distributor has 110K miles on it. The new one is a little smaller so clearance issues will be minimized.
I have been thinking about the issue of the high pressure fuel pump required for the EFI. I am leaning to installing it in the gas tank. I've found a kit that mounts the pump in the tank, but the outlet and return line attach at the top of the tank. Looks like about 1" of clearance is needed. I put in a new about 5 years ago, but don't remember if I could shim it down a little to create some space. I've thought about putting in a couple of redwood shims between the top of the tank and the bottom of the trunk. Perhaps a 1/2" thick shim at the rear and a 1" shim towards the front of the tank. That would cause it to tilt a little towards the front but should not be an issue for the filler neck at the rear. From what I've read, the pump is noisy and if it sits in the tank it can dissipate some heat to the gas.
I've got a few projects at home that I need to complete before I jump into this, but this project is not too far away.
Rich
EFI systems require a compatible, electronic distributor or cam/crank sensor. Some aftermarket EFI systems require a proprietary distributor or crank sensor. It would be a shame to buy a distributor only to find it is not compatible to the EFI system of your choice.
As far as a high pressure fuel delivery system, there is a system for retrofitting older, low pressure systems. A mini fuel system with high pressure pump, regulator, return lines, and small reservoir is placed close to the engine to handle all the EFI fuel system needs without cutting up the original fuel tank and routing a return line...not to mention the sump issues.
Gasman,
I just got off the phone with Holley. They don't have a y-block distributor for the automatic spark advance control that would work with the EFI unit. However, it will work with just about any distributor and then not have automatic spark advance.
As to the fuel system you mentioned, I've heard of this system and just found it.
FiTech has a 2V system too and they have a bunch of options for fuel delivery. https://fitechefi.com/products/40004/ If anyone else makes something like this, I have not found it.
Since I have to drop the gas tank to install the return line, I am leaning to using this for an in tank pump. https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_tanks/parts/19-165
I'm getting an incremental education on this.
Rich
I installed a Fitech unit on my 302 that's in my 57. I bought a new tank to install in-tank fuel pump. I had the option to have fuel return line, which I did. Since my Fitech is the Power Adder model, it controls all spark advance. I like it since I know longer have fuel boiling in the float bowl but I haven't noticed an increase in fuel mileage. Slight increase in low engine rpm throttle response. Once I get the car back together I'll have time to reevaluate the system to make sure it and I are on the right track.
I'm right down the road in Colorado Springs.
I was hoping that someone on the site had put one on a y-block and could share their experiences, but I may be the first on this site. I've looked for reviews where people tell the good, bad and ugly on installing their systems. I did find a youttube video of someone that had problems with their FITech unit, but in the comments on the video he was pretty much shot down on his list of complaints.
I am limiting my options to a 2V unit, mostly because I don't want to install a 4V intake. Quite frankly, I don't see that there is much of an advantage for this engine to have a 4V carb. It is easy to get all the air the engine can use through a 2V carb/EFI. I know Ford showed more HP for a 4V 292, but it's not a lot. My engine is .030" bored out which gives a few more cu. in. By my calculation, at 4,500 RPM it's drawing about 385 CFM and I doubt that I've ever cranked up that high. At 3,500, it's drawing slightly less than 300 CFM.
I used to use an air filter unit that was just a chrome top and bottom with a paper element sandwiched between. I now have an original air filter, but this has a smaller air intake hole and likely does not breathe as easy. I also have a PCV valve installed with a connection under the carb. I'll touch base with the EFI suppliers, but the EFI unit may consider this an air leak.
FDLRC - was your new tank designed for the high pressure in-tank fuel pump? I anticipate that I can drop my tank a little and install an aftermarket in-tank pump system. Like this one.
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=84/category_id=61/mode=prod/prd84.htm
Rich
Rich.....look at the Tanks Inc recessed panel/box/whatever to get the fittings low enough. I think you'd be in the range of at least 1 1/4 or so needed to clear, then, you'll need to put in an access panel to get to it. That will be needed for sure anyway. Also, look at routing the fuel lines out over the driver's side of the tank. I installed mine at the back of the tank and then had problems trying to get the fuel lines past the floor support that's right at the back of the tank. How you route your lines of course will determine where you install the pump/recessed box if you use it. If you drop your tank, you'll posibly have issues with potential damage from street garbage, and I would think you'll have to fab new straps or at least modify your old ones. Honestly, there's no way I would have gone the route you're suggesting, but that's just me.
When I welded mine in, I had just received the new tank from Auto City Classic, so I had no issues with explosions, lol. The optional finish they have on their tanks welds exceptionally nice.
Look into their tip over vent as well, but that's another issue with routing vent tubes. AND...........I'd install an inertia safety switch in the wiring. You can pick them up at a junk yard for 5 or so. Doesn't really change the wiring any, you just mount it and run the fuel pump supply wire thru it.
Let me know if you go the route I mentioned and I'll expand on the vent tube issue.
I have installed the fitech on my 58 ranchero 3+ years ago , it's not a y block but it is the original 352 fe. Their fuel injection systems I think are a good value and mine works great . The ranchero idles Better and just runs better and I did pic up a few MPGS . Now with that being said , I also have their fuel command 1 that they don't make anymore and it's the biggest piece of sh*t ever made . I have had more problems with it even having to be towed home twice . Fitech was no help with solving any of the issues with it or taking it back so I would not trust their fuel command unit 2. With the command units you still have to run a return line to the tank so a in tank pump setup is the way to go.
The ranchero tanks are different then car tanks and more of a pain to make a in tank pump fit but I have found that Holley makes a retro-fit fuel module (that works for the ranchero tank for any wagon/ranchero people info ) that uses the hydromat pickup mesh so no need to worry about baffles or sumps , it also has a very low top for the fittings part number is 12-130 . Holley does have others with diffent size hydromats . Hope my ramblings help .
I bought a new stock replacement tank from CG Ford parts. I cut an access panel in trunk floor so I don't have to drop the tank to service anything. Plus it is big enough so I can access AN fittings without hassle. I used Fitech's drop in fuel pump. The flange and quality of pump was great, thick gasket so it doesn't leak, and easy to pull out if need be.
Rich,
Actually, I was thinking of cutting a notch in the tank and making a lowered section to mount the pump. I did not find that part on the Tanks website. I know a great welder that can weld sheet metal. I'll talk to him about this project. I just crawled under the Fairlane to look at the tank. Looks to me that coming out on the driver's side close to the front of the tank would be easy. It will also miss the rib under the trunk at the front edge of the tank. I made a 3-D drawing of what I want to do.
dgasman,
I am aware of the problems with the fuel command 1 unit. I've talked to the tech rep about the fuel command 2 unit and they say it is a huge improvement over the first one. I have considered it, but am leaning to the pump in tank option. It's shown as "not available" on their website right now. Tech rep said back in stock by the end of February. I assume they are waiting for a shipment from China.
Rich..........on www.tanksinc.com left column, click on fuel tank accesories. They also have access doors and tons of other stuff. I am using their sending unit and Walro in tank pump. Everything is very well built. This is the second time today I referered someone to them. Someplace on my build thread I've got the tank mod. If I can find it, I'll post a link.
The reason I went with the fuel command unit was i thought it was a simple easy way to have fuel for the efi system . Having modified a wagon tank for efi I didn't want to do it again (lazy)
This is my wagon tank that I modified . What I like with the Holley fuel module is I don't have to cut the top of the tank off for the ranchero it's very compact . I know this kind of doesn't apply to your tank but I think your going in the right direction .
here's a link to my recessed box installation:
http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=3750.300 page 21 if it doesn't get you to the page.
Rich,
It took me to the right page number, but I did not see anything about tanks on that page.
on my 'puter, it takes me to the page also, with the tank mod about 1/2 way down, post # 304
Nice looking job on all these tanks. Tanks again.
Rich,
Thanks, the link takes me to page 21, but post #305 is on page 18 for me. I show the posts in reverse order, most recent first.
As I look at this process, I am beginning to think of using the fuel command center 2. Less modifications/but more money. I don't have a welder and even if I did, I doubt that I could weld sheet metal.
The command center 2 will fit next to the radiator if I remove the voltage regulator, which I am not using anyway. It's 9" high and the bottom mounting plate is 4.67" square.
Rich
Not much to report except I've order the parts for the Holley EFI, including the Fi Tech Command center 2 and they should arrive today. I've already pulled the gas tank and am prepping it for drilling so I can install the return line.
I'll make a video of the process and post it for all to see. I hope this turns out as easy as I think it should be.
Rich
Can't wait to see the video!
I'll post a few progress pictures later today. It's break time.
So far, I've got the gas tank drilled, return line fitting installed and the gas tank back in the car. I've drilled the exhaust line for the O2 sensor. Carb is out and EFI unit is mounted. Had to replace the carb. studs with shorter one's. I've drained the coolant system enough to remove the heater line in the intake manifold. I am installing a tee there to accept the added temp. sensor, plus putting the heat line back on. I don't think this is an ideal situation, but I am not giving up the heater without a fight.
I still have to fabricate a bracket to support the Command Center 2 fuel pump unit, that won't happen today, maybe not for a week. Lots of stuff on my plate in the upcoming week.
All in all, it's going pretty good. I have not given any blood or scraped knuckles yet. Did bang my head putting the gas tank back in, but no damage done.
Rich
I did not think I would get the fuel unit mounted, but it turns out that it's a little shorter than I thought. It is a perfect fit on a small shelf on left side, just behind the radiator. I have two bolts down into the fender liner shelf and another one on a angle bracket to the mounting hole the side away from the fender.
Things left to do. Run all the gas lines, connect the cables and power, then start the car. Seems like a short list, but it will take a while. I've found that the stock air cleaner will not fit over this unit. Lots of bumps on the bottom. I may try to make a steel collar to raise it up enough so that it will work. That would be my preference.
I've got some other things to do tomorrow, but should be able to put in at least three hours on this project and that will go a long ways toward completion.
Rich
coolant temp is a critical input to the ECM. The link is one alternative for adding another coolant sensor. Although if using this alternative, I would add a ground wire to assure sensor performance.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/38mm-SILVER-Radiator-hose-Coolant-Temperature-temp-sender-Gauge-sensor-adaptor/253894581802?hash=item3b1d4bde2a&enc=AQADAAADEFjVrDbVsZ8oH%2F8PNHtt9VX4%2Fw7FZcmMuqsX8uaFEduVIX7aQ9qCJLz0wY1adePHfGS2N4KZ5yzQlms0ODdg%2F2oQPc7dY1vEeNl1mr2%2BnvAdNABJDXAewymlGkaD1bediVBMoO2yXMKYtnrjlYWd1FC9M%2Fim3FC8Cyiyz8Tjp5GyrFdD%2BZCFMPG4CQhDhFhh3Omb1JsbGgywozr7yaTdi0lIT3NVqMRYOOOhoKQCoOdXC7sWGUDK%2FcefTh7zEAZoUEZbaifsdYYXCGF8zjATr%2FiAmn0LOtkqssdrHMFVKwuOU4tAwfjb13jzcNtggWbNHL73aHS2kTAJTYAjbsCwHFEI7EqRhAy4cLoWDDicGf3Fh6q6A9V0vEsLRpHR4u9zyeXOyxLt37uNNQpTVsoFmVNd7ezWOoKy7feTZuNIYZnzWJFYA73GMZtP0DTRSTRu0Yk8ncfCGdwUW3vWb9jEhTSn%2BVBmICLW38oLAdtQwMZsP07h4NcWYmA5EbUSarBlSo9UmW4wc9ylhxXUNZPL3LZd1QQ%2FvQYPIoaN%2FmToZd2esJY0SXGx4hiB0I5%2Bo4KfiVnVUccAhekzxKwAFRFMfIn6Gzoeb1YJRDQXVxB96ywOdhdC79EfR9he3TZUsURZ3o3iDJ6L7Al5dxmTQA7gW9nFyCBkrxstIBav1jziOy7ixlfEamE3RivSlEwbd4z9BNv%2BvwUIjnTQAd4XBj6dzk42QUDC1eWN9dvpAwFmDuH9RkJdUaex651INxhKfeWRGDJg9dpuousjSgyCDtpSCrayrBOOvAFXgCl%2F6xFmZsSfWmii%2Feh4413hmnt8gX%2FJ0h75rnhZjnyY%2BMEF4H5VRhiaeBVNM407LotHORVMe8Y8EvK7hvcZniCJ6vrbANKt2vJiVvrh%2BgmjAAnQTStT7QSulU%2FARj6wESqiXb1mLqVVPY62Bz5GQNAwYmupZBNRlolUDQf1mGdGWMbX5d6Mf3DTjmzSEdlv0leo1CEtSdR6Oi4B3LjrHlpOtCg6c1SJcNZoMZ13jE%2F5ttPmBULkiCU%3D&checksum=253894581802375629029545435d92c0aba1c6048cd3
There are also inexpensive air cleaner spacers.
That would put the sensor in line with the heater line. I think in the winter there would be a good flow of hot water past the sensor. In the summer, there will not be flow in that line. I've considered putting a small piece of ridged glass insulation on that tee. That would help it keep engine temp.
I'll look into a spacer for the air cleaner. I also have another air cleaner that I used before I found an original one. It likely has better air flow than the original air cleaner.
Thanks for the link.
I just looked for air cleaner spacers and there are a bunch out there. The plastic one's seem to have low ratings, but there are metal ones too. Thanks for the clue.
Rich
Gary is correct, engine coolant temp is critical. I would drill and tap a new hole for the sensor next to the heater outlet. Use a magnet to get the metal shavings out of the coolant passage after the tap is completed. Do not used Teflon tape when installing the sender, just a good ol thread sealer will work and not prevent electrical isolation of the sensor.
Guys, thanks for the feedback. I am going to send the picture to Holley in the morning to see what that have to say. If what I have done won't work, I think this is a simpler solution.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Inline-Radiator-Hose-Temperature-Switch-Adapter-3-8-NPT-1-1-2-OD-38mm-OD-/312172583810
I would install the temp sensor in the intake manifold and let the heater return line go directly into the radiator hose. I know it would be on the wrong side of the T-Stat, but I don't think it would make a big difference. If heater water was flowing and if the engine T-Stat was closed, a small amount of water would go around the T-Stat.
Rich
My cure for the temp sending unit was to make a spacer between the thermostat housing and intake manifold like ford did on the 58 Edsel . Yes it's a fe motor but I don't know why it wouldn't work for a y block .
Very nice looking unit you made. I've got a friend that was a research engineer for Ford. I've discussed the issue with him. He feels it is very important to have the temp sensor in the intake manifold. I've removed the tee that I made and installed the sensor in the intake manifold. I've also ordered the radiator hose modification and will install the heater return line into this.
I've got the fuel lines complete, including the return line to the gas tank. I've also started to run all of the wiring cables. There is no way to conceal all of this stuff, but I am trying to keep it as neat as I can. I also discovered that I don't need to raise the air cleaner. It was sitting on the disconnected vacuum line for the distributor. That is no longer a hard line, but a rubber vacuum line connected to the EFI unit.
I've also reread both installation manuals again and now feel pretty good about everything I've got done and still have to do. There is a procedure in the Command Center 2 unit on getting fuel going again. You will be starting out with a system completely empty of fuel. The engine needs to crank to fill the Command Center with fuel because it uses the original fuel pump to provide fuel to it. There are enough warnings in the manuals about screwing up and destroying equipment that I want to make sure, well as sure as possible, that I make no errors that cause damage.
Not going to get much done this week as it now looks, but I hope to have it running by the weekend.
Yes your friend is right you want that sensor in the intake flow that's why having the spacer behind the t stat it's still in the flow of the water and it does not affect the heater . On my spacer you see both the efi and factory temp sensor , that is because the previous owner removed the temp sensor from the bypass hose as was factory on a 352 in 58 and then installed it into the heater hose . This made the factory gauge always read hot . the spacer I made is easy to make . No fancy tools or equipment needed . All I used was a peice of 1 inch thick aluminum a hacksaw a hole saw two drills and taps for the sensor and 1 hourish of time . In this pic you will see it all together and my other temp sensor in the heater hose T . This easy fix will save you all kinds of issue in my opinion from someone who has been there
For a hand made piece, this looks great and it does the job. It's also a cleaner installation that what I will do.
I am enjoying the project, but as always, I look forward to completion.
Rich
Brief update. All equipment is mounted, wiring is about 75% done. Still need my heater hose fitting to be delivered, likely Saturday.
Had an issue with connecting the throttle linkage. Stock linkage is perfect fit, but I could not figure out how to attach it to the EFI unit. The plate it attaches to is thicker and the mounting hole is a little deeper down so that the stock retainer clip would not work. I finally ordered a ball joint fitting, but that is threaded 3/16"-32. To use that, I would have had to cut off the 90 degree end of the linkage and thread it to accept the new part. I searched high and low and cannot find a die for this. So, this afternoon, I did what I had previously rejected as not doable.
I drilled a 1/16" hole in the end of the rod, put in a washer and cotter pin and I think this will work just fine.
Another update.
It works!
I completed minor items yesterday afternoon and then powered up the system. You have to set the parameters on the computer then start the engine to begin the learning cycle. I did get it started immediately, but in my haste, I did not finish reading the instructions and was concerned by the high idle speed, doing about 2,250. So, I reset everything and started over. I could not get the engine started and gave up for the night. This morning, I once again went through the set up instructions and the engine started up fine. After it got to operating temp, I made the idle adjustment. I currently have it idling at 650, but I know the factory setting should be 475. I've never had it idle that low.
On the throttle ball joint connection that I bought. Data on it said that the screw threads were 3/16-32. Taint's so. It's #10-32, which is a common thread size. I measured the diameter of the stock rod and it's .004" larger than the outside dimension of a #10-32 screw. I am going to go ahead and thread this for the #10-32, it's a better connection than what I have now.
I haven't driven the car yet. I don't quite have the dash back together after reinstalling my readjusted gas gauge. Sometime this afternoon, I hope to be on the road again.
I've got my video started and should have that complete in a few days.
Well, I took the car out for a 20 mile drive with no problems. The system is still in the learn mode, but seems to be working pretty well. It's even idling well with the a/c running
My recalibrated gas gauge also is working pretty well but not perfect. I did notice that the new unit does not have a swing arm on the float long enough to reach both the top and bottom of the tank. When I filled the tank, it shows just under full, in the garage when I had dumped 4 gallons in the tank, it still showed empty. On my bench I set the gauge to match the sending unit at full and empty. I did check the output of the aftermarket gauge power supply, dead nuts 5v, same voltage I used on my bench.
The picture shows the ball joint linkage I added.
Rich
Rich, is this Dorman 41030 the throttle linkage ball joint the one you used?
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/dorman-help--4422/performance-16477/engine-16841/fuel-system-16571/carburetors-16703/carburetor-brackets---linkage-18345/621ae300ad53/dorman-help-throttle-ball-joint/41030/4527748/1979/ford/bronco?pos=1
Yes, that is it. Actually, I found one for sale on the Summit Racing site, showed the part number to Autozone and they ordered it for me and matched Summit's pricing. Everything I found on the internet showed the 3/16-32 threads. Autozone offered to take it back even though I had already paid for it and it was a special order. For some reason, I just took it home and intended to pitch it into my junk box. I got it for $6.99, I think. From my package, the Dorman part number is 41030, same as your link.
Quote from: ROKuberski on 2019-04-20 18:42
Yes, that is it. ....
Autozone offered to take it back even though I had already paid for it and it was a special order.
Thanks! If I special order something from Autozone here I have to pay shipping that sometimes costs nearly as much as the part. And they won't take it back. :(
My video is active.
https://youtu.be/gRtykX2krKE
Consider subscribing to my youtube channel
Thanks,
Rich
Watched the video, thanks. Drivability/response, power, fuel economy? Are you satisfied?
Well, I hope to be satisfied. I am still in the learn mode. I've driven the car about 25 miles at this point. I know that the A/F ratio is still a little rich and there are a lot of things that can be adjusted that will affect performance/mileage, etc. The car starts easily and I no longer have the one-time hesitation after starting out.
Here is a link to the manual. Go to page 44 and you will see the numerous things that are monitored and can be adjusted.
https://documents.holley.com/199r11321.pdf
I will take it on the road for a short trip today (50 miles.) I'll let you know more when I know more, but I am ever hopeful
I put 50 miles on the car today. Mostly at highway speeds. I've never had a tach on this car, but today I saw that at 3,000 RPM, I am cruising at 75 MPH. All seemed normal. Good pep, smooth acceleration Air fuel ratio at cruse is 14:1, which is what the generic setup shows it should be, also what my friend the Ford research engineer said it should be. It's supposed to take weeks for the learn mode to get all the information it wants. I only drive the car several times a week, so that may take longer. However, it is doing very well right now.
One significant bump in the road. About 5 miles from home, the engine goes dead, felt like I was out of gas, and I was. However, I was out of gas because the fuel pump unit was not delivering gas. When you cycle the ignition on, you can hear the pump pressurize the system. This time, nothing. Over a period of several minutes, I cycled the ignition 4 times, on the 4th attempt, the unit pressurized the system and I drove home. I suppose that there are numerous possible problems, but the simplest one would be a faulty fuel pump relay. I purchased the units from Summit Racing and spent about 1/2 hour talking with a tech rep. He had me confirm all the things I did to install the system. Seems like I got it right. They are sending me a new relay and I will start to carry a volt meter with me so I can verify whether or not the fuel unit was getting power when it was not pumping fuel. If it's not the relay, then there are only expensive parts to replace.
Update.
It's been cold and wet for a few weeks, but I drove the car on last Wednesday, the same 50 mile drive as a few weeks ago with almost the same result. On the way home, just about 3 miles short of the last failure point, the car goes dead again. I had not installed the new fuel pump relay that Summit Racing sent to me. But I did have it with me and I installed it, but it made no difference. After a few tries, I did get the car to start, but twice, it quit after just a few seconds. I did check if I had power to the pump, but I did not have power. Finally, as before, it started and I drove home. I contacted both Summit Racing and Holley. Holley seems to think I have a bad ground or main power to the EFI unit is faulty. They want me to install a relay and activate the relay at the ignition switch and run power direct to the EFI unit through the relay. When the system has died (no power to the fuel pump) I have still had power to the EFI unit, the computer still has a display. Also, when the EFI was not supplying power to the fuel pump, I jumped power direct from the positive battery terminal to the positive terminal on the fuel pump. It instantly pressurized the system.
I asked Holley if anyone else is having this problem, NO, they said. The are reluctant to replace the EFI unit. My contact with Summit Racing, where I bought all of the equipment, says to try what Holley suggests and if there is still a problem, they will replace the unit.
When the EFI is working properly, which is most of the time, it is great. Starts great, I no longer have a hesitation when the engine is cold, slightly more pep. My mileage on the highway is about 18 mpg. The computer tells me pounds per hour of fuel consumption, so I watched it for a while when going 60 mph and made the calculation.
Another issue I may have is with the heater. I had to use the hot water port on the intake manifold for the added coolant temp sensor. I installed an inline fitting on the radiator hose and put the heater line there. I don't have water circulation through the heater. It's possible I disconnected something during the EFI install, but I don't think so. Dgasman had a picture of a special fitting he made for a heater line that would connect on the other side (correct side) of the t-stat. I may make one for my engine. He has a different engine, but I think it will work on the Y-Block too. It would shorten the already very short heater hose at the T-stat housing by 1" but it should still work.
Hey, if this was easy, then anyone could do it.
Rich
It is precisely those types of issues that have me a little leery of aftermarket EFI units. I do realize that usually the fix is typically something simple but sometimes my appliances with smart controls seem to have a mind of their own.
Believe me, I know what you are talking about. As much as I wanted to do this, I was aware of people having problems.
I just got a relay installed and the engine is still running. So, at least I did not screw that up. It's cold and wet here this week, so I am not going to do any test drives until at least the weekend.
This is one of those things where there are very few people that can assist with problems. The installation is really pretty straightforward. Knowing why I have a problem is like deciphering a magic trick. The EFI unit is sealed and I am NOT going to start popping screws to see what makes it work. Anyway, I will get through this and will keep you informed on my progress.
Rich
Heater problem solved. I built the part that Dgasman mentioned. I made mine of steel and it took me about 2 hours to hack it out of a 4"x4"x1" piece of steel. It looks good and it works.
Most excellent, looking forward to "trip" reports and an opinion as to whether or not it is worth the effort.
It't cool here today, but dry. I'll drive the car on my regular Wednesday 50 mile run. However, I am installing a "band aid" for supplying power to the pump. I have a switch installed that will allow me to send power directly to the fuel pump if the EFI system decides to quit working again.
Apart from the power to the fuel pump issue, I am very happy with the EFI system. And, yes, I'll update on any future issues.
Rich
Well, after being pretty sure that the engine failures on the Fairlane were caused by the Holley EFI unit, Friday, I had a failure that was definitely the fuel pump assembly. Drove the car about 25 miles for lunch with a friend and on the way home it died on I-70 about 5 miles from home. I had installed a wire where I could directly provide power to the fuel pump, but it did nothing. I then jumpered directly from the battery to the pump just to be sure, nothing. In the past, it had reset itself in about 5 minutes. Not this time. I finally had the car towed home. After about 90 minutes the pump did start to work again. Each time the pump failed it was after about 1/2 hour of driving. I've notified Summit Racing that they can have the pump back. By the way, my pump was from FiTech, their Command Center 2 unit. It is no longer listed on their website although it is still for sale on the Summit Racing site and likely a few other places.
I have several options on how to provide fuel to the EFI unit. I am leaning towards modifying the fuel tank so that I can install an in-tank pump.
State Farm will shortly have a check in the mail for me on the tow charges.
Rich..if you decide to install an in-tank unit, look at Tanks Inc "recessed box". I installed mine towards the front of the tank (opposite the filler neck), but in hindsight I should have installed it on the left side. I ended up having interference issues running the fuel hoses out the front because the floor support brace is right there. Before you pull your tank, have a look under to see the best location for the lines to run........which I'm sure you'll find will not be the most direct route to the hard lines. Also, I have had zero issues with their in-tank pump in 26k miles.
Somewhere in my build threads I have pics of the recessed box install. I can find them if you want.
Here's a link to my recessed box install, but as mentioned, I wouldn't put it where I did.
http://57fordsforever.com/smf/index.php?topic=3750.300 you'll have to scroll down a bit
Rich,
I remember seeing your install earlier. It looked good. This whole problem pisses me off. I selected a fuel unit that was complete and easy to install. However, no matter how nice it looks, it is not reliable and that stinks. I did not consider the FiTech EFI unit after reading plenty of negative reviews, but I did get their fuel unit. Their Command Center 1 was a dog, but I did not see that people were having issues with the Command Center 2 unit. Anyway, mine is going back. And as I previously noted, it appears that they are no longer making this unit. I'll try to make a decision on what to do this coming week. I don't anticipate any issues with Summit Racing taking back my faulty fuel unit.
Rich
Rich,
I feel your pain . Having gone thru all the same issues with my FITech command unit just to find out it is a over priced POS . The problem is the pump over heats and FITechs "cure" is to lower the voltage to the pump . This did kinda help , you could drive a few more miles before it quit . There is not enough fuel flow to keep the pump cool . I bought it for the same reason you did and in theory it sounds good but we now know better. A in tank pump is the way to go and it is worth the extra work and stay away from a external pump they sound like a good thing but I have been there and done that and it was not pretty . Nice job on the tstat spacer 👍
I felt like I did a reasonable amount of research before selecting the parts for this upgrade. Oh well, stuff happens. I am toying with the idea of lowering the front end of the gas tank 1.5" It will still be above the bottom of the center of the differential and that would allow a no weld solution for installing the pump.
Check this video out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZSBssihF8U
It even notes that there is a return-less option. I'll check w/Holley on this.
I appreciate the comment on the adapter for the heater. Your idea and it was a clean solution.
Rich
I've seen EFI mini surge tanks installed with classic car EFI conversions. No return line, no tank modifications needed. solves all the fuel delivery issues. Link to HOT ROD magazine article.
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/new-tankpump-solves-every-problem-efi-fuel-systems/
I had not seen this exact unit, but quite frankly, it's made by FiTech and for me, that makes it a no go. The unit I have looks a lot like this one, but it is their model #40004. No final decision yet, but I will likely use an in-tank solution of some sort.
Thanks,
Rich
Photo is the review I posted on Summit Racing website.
I just got this from Summit Racing.
"I apologize for the delay and I am very sorry to hear that. I can definitely warranty the Command Center out. If you're wanting to go to a in-tank system, I highly recommend the Aeromotive Phantom kit, AEI-18689. I can take care of the additional money that would be owed if you go with the Aeromotive pump. The Phantom system cost $487.98 and the Command Center was $395.00, so I can make them the same price and just swap them out? Let me know what you would like to do and we will proceed from there."
If you search on the item he suggests there are a few videos showing installation and how it works. I think I will drain my tank, make some shims to see what would happen if I drop the front end 1.5". This "may" work. I am also considering cutting a relief slot in the floor of the trunk for the fuel lines and covering it with a protective steel cover. These are things that I can do to avoid cutting and welding on the tank, if they make sense. Otherwise, I will just do the tank mod.
I also asked Summit if I could work out a deal to keep the special -6AN fittings and the fuel filter that came with the Command Center 2 unit. They won't give these used parts to anyone else and they are expensive to buy. Haven't heard back on that one yet.
I am really glad that I elected to purchase from Summit Racing. Prices are the same, but customer service is EXCELLENT at Summit Racing.
Well, I got the new parts from Summit Racing and have the new pump installed in the tank. I have not installed a tray in the tank. I currently have the tank mounted temporarily in the car to make sure it will be okay to mount it the way I want. I've got the back end of the tank lowered about 1/2" and the forward end of the tank lowered 1.25". The fuel pump assembly is 1.125" above the top of the tank.
Since the tank will not be tight to the bottom of the trunk floor, I have installed two strips of wood to give the clearances noted. I will also have to lengthen the hanger straps.
I am currently waiting for new high pressure hose to be delivered from rockauto on Friday. I will then be able to get the tank mounted permanent in its new position.
This is not yet a done deal, but I think I've got it pretty well figured out.
In the second picture you can see where I created a dent where the rear of the tank hits a locating bracket on the rear of the car. As the tank is lowered, it rotates slightly forward. This dent allows it to move to the rear to close to the original position.
Just curious, if you are using the two strips of wood as a spacer then are you going to depend on the straps for a ground circuit or is there a ground wire provision supplied with the pump?
I did a similar thing, even with my recessed panel for the pump. I used 1/2 x 3 nylon I had from a salvage yard. I bought about 40 pounds of it for 25 bucks. Different thicknesses & widths. has come in handy for lots of things. like dropping the tank. The fuel lines are running to the back?
Are you going to put an access panel in the trunk?
Not having a baffle in the tank could cause issues when the tank is low.
Keep an eye on the tank's straps over the years......wood shrinks.
I hope the new components straighten out the issues you've had.
When I built the 66 Falcon Ranchero with EFI the question of fuel pump was a several day research effort. After reading all the pros and cons decided to go with a stock Ford in-tank unit. A late 80s Fox platform pump assembly was the closest to the same dimension height wise as the tank. Cleaned it out, welded a flange to the top, added a 1" well in the bottom. Had to run a return line and power. Sold it to a good friend. It was still running when it got totaled by a drunk driver.
Lets see;
There is a ground connection on the top of the pump assembly. However, now that you bring this up, I think I will need a separate ground so the fuel sending unit will work.
As to a baffle in the tank, the tank was not built with a baffle, but the pump assembly has a mesh lined "sump" with 4 1/4 in holes to fuel in. The mesh lined sump has a rubber outer lining around it and it is this that has the small holes in it. The tank leans forward and the pump is at the front end of the tank, opposite the filler tube. It's only leaning 5/8" down at the front.
I have considered putting in an access door in the floor of the trunk. The lines are completely hidden, so this would be a good idea. Tanks Inc. has one on their website.
The wood I am using is surplus Brazilian rosewood flooring. It's hard as a rock and kiln dried. I don't think this will shrink. However, since the tank will not be tucked up into the "next" that Ford made for it. I figured on checking on it after driving around several times.
I just got my high pressure hose today and will get back to work on the car soon. I did not previously mention the problem I had making an order with rockauto.com. I had a previous order about a month ago with no problems. Earlier this week, I tried to order some fuel hose from them and got a message that they would no longer ship to my address. I live in an incorporated city in Colorado. The problem is that rockauto would have to make sales tax payments directly to my city. They said it's too much of a problem to set this up for all of the places that now require this. I got around the problem by having the delivery shipped to a friend in an unincorporated part of the county. This situation stinks. I would imagine that in the not too distant future, a simple solution can be worked out to eliminate this problem.
I hate to suggest more government, but it sounds like a central sales tax federal "office"is going to be needed to divvy up collected taxes.
Does the Fairlane not have a trunk floor support brace right in front of the gas tank? That's what I had trouble clearing with my lines headed frontwards.
Rich,
Yes, I have a gas tank brace at the front of the trunk, but the lowering of the tank allows the fuel hoses to duck under the edge of the brace. I've lowered the front of the tank 1.25" and the rear of the tank 5/8", the hoses are about 3/4" o.d. so they clear just fine.
The reason I keep mentioning it is I had a "rubber" fuel line connector hose rub through there on a trip to Colorado, last July actually. Just a thought............If you have additional room, you may want to slide a chunk of garden hose (or similar) over the fuel lines in that area.
Your setup looks good and I don't think you are going to have any problems . The straps that hold the tank are also your ground for the sending unit unless you have some sort of isolator (rubber?) on the straps .No need to worry about no baffle in the tank . The pump setup you have has its own sump much like a modern car . You would have to be running on empty in a auto cross race before you have a issue.
The sender should have a strap/wire from one of the mounting screws to the body to ensure a good ground. Too much interference from rust and dirt to insure a good ground for accurate readings. Easy to do. Tank should have some kind of pad between it and the chassis/body and the tank straps. Rubbing could cause a weak spot to leak or generate a spark because of dirt/small grit rubbing.
Remember gas is heavy. It sloshes around (free surface effect) causing weight shift, lots of forces trying to move that tank around so it needs to be secured.
I've always had a piece of EPDM 60 mil rubber roofing on top of the tank to protect it. That will still be there. I will also install a pair of short sections of angle iron at the front of the tank so that it cannot slide forward. This because the front edge of the tank will no longer be restrained by the brace on the bottom of the trunk floor. The rear of the tank is still up against the original brackets. There is a reinforcing bracket across the rear of the car where the rear of the tank sits. I will drill a pair of holes in this which will give me a lower place to put the j bolts for the tank straps. I don't think I will have to lengthen the straps if I do this.
It's good to have all of you guys chime in on these projects. When you think you have thought of everything, frequently, you have not.
I appreciate all the comments.
Rich
Rich
The J bolts............I didn't like the way mine were working/grabing..........was a fight, so I bolted in a piece of steel tubing with a bolt/washers/nut and used an eye bolt. Worked great. Of course the eye bolt has to be slid over the tubing before it's bolted in place. Got pics somewhere, but I remember that rear brace being a u-channel, and the tubing sleeve was cut to fit inside the channel.
Like Bill said..do a wired ground and eliminate problems down the road with that. As I said before, my entire car is wired as if it's a fiberglass car. Knock on wood, I've never had electrical problems.
I can get help when I need it, but most of what I do is a one-man-job. I've been using a ratchet strap to assist with the removal and re-installation of the gas tank. I also use one of the ramps to drive on and off of my car lift. That fits between the rails perfectly. I put that in place just in case I fumble the tank, it could only drop a foot. At any rate, I think I can reuse the original straps if I lower the point where the J-hooks hang. And yes, I'll make a solid connection for the ground to the tank. I'll post pictures when I get to this point.
I've been wrapped up in the 60th anniversary celebration this weekend at the Colorado Railroad Museum where I am a volunteer. Golf seems to be interfering too, but I should have this back together this week. If not, I also have a trip to the EAA FlyIn in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. A friend and I will fly up there (commercial) for a few days and we are taking a flight on the B-29 Fifi on our last day.
Retirement is tough.
Done, I hope.
I finally got the new pump from Summit Racing installed in my tank and it seems to be working fine. Of course the FiTech pump worked fine until it died.
My trip to the EAA Fly in and ride in a B-29 did delay progress, but, it was worth it.
Here a couple of videos I made. One of the B-29 ride and the second is a ride in a Bell 47 helicopter over the airfield at Oshkosh.
https://youtu.be/eVEAVaOmHNo
https://youtu.be/3JOTiB_-oiQ
Rich
Pretty awesome videos, Rich. Are you retired military?
Hope you got the efi sorted out. Nothing would be more irritating than having an undependable car........I'd rather not have a classic at all if I couldn't get to the point where I couldn't just jump it in and go wherever.
Super video.. I'm amazed at how slow those old planes reacted to steering inputs, those pilots really had to plan ahead and be on top of the game all the time. I went with my son a few years back when he flew in a B17, I stayed on the ground..
Rich K, thanks for that B-29 vid!
I was a a flight crew member in these old & very slow Martin Marlon P5M-2 seaplanes. Did one tour in them where a lot of us were at the time, "Beautiful Southeast Asia", 1966/'67.
These planes were then phased out & did two two tours in the same area in the Lockheed P3-A. Experiences never to be forgotten.
SG 9 was 'my' seaplane & it was SG 5 in the P3.
Extremely different airplanes!
As to my EFI system, that has never failed. It was the Command Center 2 fuel unit from FiTech that failed. Is the car reliable? I hope so. I've got about 50 miles on the new fuel pump. It sits in the gas tank which seems to be the desired place. Summit Racing was very cooperative about replacing the original fuel setup and allowed me to keep the fuel filter and all of the AN-06 fittings. If all goes well, I'll take it on a 150 mile trip in the mountains on August 17th.
The EAA experience was great, it was my second visit. I previously flew with some friends in the EAA's B-17 https://youtu.be/78IdKp9Rwvc
This was my 7th flight in a vintage aircraft. I did 3 flights in a T-34, two doing aerobatics and one doing air combat (this is where I get to fly the plane.) I also did an aerobatic flight in an AT-6 (also with me flying the plane.) My wife and I flew in the EAA's Ford Tri-motor. https://youtu.be/nuvFc8_3p1M
No, I am not retired military, but I was in the Marine Corps in Viet Nam 1/2/68-8/8/69 (got there just in time for TET) - https://youtu.be/glg-SHYl3Co
In case you can't tell already, I have lots of videos on YouTube. Some interesting, some, not so much. But you can find them here: www.youtube.com/rokuberski
Rich
Unless something explodes, this is my last update.
Saturday, we did a 150 mile trip through the Colorado mountains going over one pass twice. Good performance and ZERO problems. I still need to fill the tank for an accurate calculation of mileage. The computer shows fuel consumption in pounds/hour. I made a chart to convert that to MPG and right now, my best guess is that I got about 16 MPG for mountain driving. If I'm right, that's pretty good. Going up hill, I frequently had the pedal to the metal with MPG showing at about 10, going down the steep hills, I let it coast and the MPG was over 40, but that does not last forever. Much of the trip was at highway speeds and I was never the car causing a backup. I'm pleased with this setup.
:burnout: Excellent, Rich Now, bring it down to the "Cruise above the Clouds" on 9/7!...........It's in Woodland Park and Cripple Creek. I've got it on my calendar. Alamosa is the week before that, I'd do that one also if it wasn't back to back with the woodland Park event.
Rich,
I just checked my calendar. I've got a car club event in Evergreen on that day, plus the Golden Cruise (every first Saturday of the month - May - October) in the evening. Otherwise, I'd be there.
Haven't talked to you in a while. How did your engine problem get resolved?
Rich
Not sure which engine problem you're refering to, lol. The tranny leak that I thought I had turned out to be an engine coolant leak that was seeping into the bellhousing. It was a leak at a front coolant pipe I knew about, I just didn't realize it was running into the valley under the intake and overflowing out the back over the engine/bellhousing seam and coming out at the bellhousing open drain. Figured that out when I put a cup under the fluid leak just to see what color it was. LOL, tranny fluid ain't green!
My overheating problem turned out to be an air lock in the cooling system. I've put about 2000 miles on the replacement engine and it's been doing great. Never gets over 200 even in 108* temps (a week ago at the Summer's last blast in Vernon, Tx). Wish I was handling the heat as well as the car. Saturday temps for the NSRA in Albuquerque are projected to be 98*......may keep me home. The fairgounds where the show is does not have any shade at all.
Some of the smaller issues I had turned out to be a computer relearning thing..........went away in time.
The silver lining in having to replace the engine was getting other stuff changed/modified while the engine was out, like redoing the steering linkage, and finding out what was causing my idling issue that I always had with the first engine. The car now is better driveability than it was before.
Quote from: Tom S on 2019-08-03 14:24
Rich K, thanks for that B-29 vid!
I was a a flight crew member in these old & very slow Martin Marlon P5M-2 seaplanes. Did one tour in them where a lot of us were at the time, "Beautiful Southeast Asia", 1966/'67.
These planes were then phased out & did two two tours in the same area in the Lockheed P3-A. Experiences never to be forgotten.
SG 9 was 'my' seaplane & it was SG 5 in the P3.
Extremely different airplanes!
Tom, I was Air Crew on a P2V Neptune. Stationed in Rota Spain.'68/'69
Rich,
Last conversation I had with you was that you had to replace the engine. Sounds like you have had several other minor issues along the way but are in a good place now.
I'm pretty happy with my car now too, except that I still need to add some sound deadening. I really would like to do the underside of the roof, but it's a lot of work to replace the headliner. Windshield and rear window trim has to come out and I have to buy a new headliner. I don't think it is possible to salvage the old one. When I did my '37 Chevy, putting the sound deadening on the firewall and ceiling made the biggest difference, but I also put it in the doors and floor too. I had it everywhere and it made a really big difference.
Rich K
Quote from: KYBlueOval on 2019-08-20 04:34
Tom, I was Air Crew on a P2V Neptune. Stationed in Rota Spain.'68/'69
Hey! Saw a lot of those P2Vs when I was on the other side of the world from where you were then.
Sometimes there was one stealthy lookin' group of them in Cam Rhan Bay that were all painted flat black. I don't recall seeing any insignias of any kind on 'em. Never found out what they were up to.
Being in Rota your experience must have been a lot different than mine. What squadron was it? Mine was VP50.
Have you been to this web site? Haven't checked it in years. I did locate some of my old crew & squadron mates on it.
http://www.vpnavy.org/vp_vpb.html
Tom, I had heard there were some P2v's in S.E. Asia, never knew for sure what they were doing. FYI, I was the MAD operator and therefore I had the best seat in the house............in the plastic nose bubble. The downside was.........first to go if there was a "problem".
I was in VP671 I'll check that site out. Thanks
I filled the tank on the Fairlane this morning and calculated that I got 18.5 MPG on my mountain trip. Virtually no city or stop and go driving. Pretty steady in the 50 - 70 MPH range with a brief section of about 20 - 40 MPH. The pass I crossed twice was only 9,997', so not really a major climb.
I'm pleased.
Quote from: KYBlueOval on 2019-08-21 05:37
Tom, I had heard there were some P2v's in S.E. Asia, never knew for sure what they were doing. FYI, I was the MAD operator and therefore I had the best seat in the house............in the plastic nose bubble. The downside was.........first to go if there was a "problem".
I was in VP671 I'll check that site out. Thanks
As far as I know most of the P2V squadrons I saw when flying out of various bases in the Philippines, Japan & Cam Rhan were doing patrol duty like you & I did. I have seen on the net in more recent years that P2Vs were used for some other quite diverse duties in Nam & elsewhere.
I was the Ordanceman, certainly not even close to what I wanted to do but no choice on that after the military gets you.
I think my 1st choice when I was drafted was aircraft mechanic, that would have been a very good fit for me & something I could put to use as a civilian. Alaska is a big flying country, I believe we have the most private pilots per capita of any state in the US by a wide margin.
When I got home after the service it seemed that nobody had any jobs for 'Cannon Cockers', 'BB Stackers' or tail gunners.
Gee, what big surprise. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/TomIII/smilies/lol.gif)
Did you always have to take off & land while in that P2V nose bubble or was there another seat that you could use at those times?
No take offs or landings while in the bubble. I had a position on the flight deck for Take Off/Landings. Once up, I'd drop down through a trap door into a tunnel, that went past the left side of the nose gear. When crawling through the tunnel I'd reach out to the nose gear and pull the safety pin,........... without falling out of the plane.There was a lot of air rushing up through that nose gear! Reverse procedure on landing. This procedure prevented a collapsed nose gear.
I'd add that there was plenty of low level flying, sometimes very low. Best seat in the plane .........you could see a lot of what was going on.
If you were ever aboard a P2V, one thing you'll remember is the wing beam came through the plane. To get to the aft station, you had to go over the wing in whatever fashion worked for you. Some went feet first, some went head first. But no one "walked" to the aft station.